University student tasered at John Kerry Speech (video)

Foozymandias says:

I couldnt get to my camera in time to record his entrance, but this guy basically comes running in with 4 or 5 cops in tow and says he has been running around trying to get in to ask a question and the cops are going to arrest him for it. They almost do it then but Sen. Kerry says he will answer it. He then answers a previous question someone else asked (I cut that part out because it isnt important to this video) then the guy asks his questions and when he is done all hell breaks lose.
To the cop haters: I have no doubt the cops were going exactly by the book, the problem isnt them, its the book! they were doing their job and looked just as confused as this kid (This isn't something that they deal with often).

As the kid writhes on the ground screaming for mercy, Kerry drones on in his school-principal-on-thorazine style. Link

Mark Frauenfelder is the founder of Boing Boing and the editor-in-chief of MAKE and Cool Tools. Twitter: @frauenfelder. Come and hear Mark speak at the ALA conference in Chicago on July 1.

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Anonymous

Timothy Dohan:

It’s not so much WHAT the kid was saying, but HOW he was saying it. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but there’s no need to be a fool about it. If he had just asked his questions within his alloted time in a normal, calm voice, then the police wouldn’t have felt the need to remove him. The cops were simply escorting him away before he decided to throw a temper tantrum like a spoiled three year old in need of a nap.

Also, it’s delusional to think that all police fall under the umbrella of peace hating abusers of justice. Sure, police corruption exist, as it does in all areas of society (business, government, etc.), but in general the police are there to protect and don’t actively seek out to abuse our rights as a whole (especially rich white college kids). ANd what are our alternatives? Anarchy is great until you see it in action (look up the history of Somalia between 1999 and 2004).
Anonymous

Timothy Dohan:

It’s not so much WHAT the kid was saying, but HOW he was saying it. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but there’s no need to be a fool about it. If he had just asked his questions within his alloted time in a normal, calm voice, then the police wouldn’t have felt the need to remove him. The cops were simply escorting him away before he decided to throw a temper tantrum like a spoiled three year old in need of a nap.

Also, it’s delusional to think that all police fall under the umbrella of peace hating abusers of justice. Sure, police corruption exist, as it does in all areas of society (business, government, etc.), but in general the police are there to protect and don’t actively seek out to abuse our rights as a whole (especially rich white college kids). ANd what are our alternatives? Anarchy is great until you see it in action (look up the history of Somalia between 1999 and 2004).
Anonymous

Didn’t see the vid. Don’t need to.

I would be shocked if anyone could come up wiht something that DEAN W. ARMSTRONG hasn’t already addressed.

1) The taser was advertised/justified as an alternative to deadly force.

2) Since it’s not “deadly force”, the taser is used in all kinds of incidents that don’t warrant “deadly force”.

3) The taser is extremely painful.

4) This means that security personnel get free rein to torture people in all kinds of trivial circumstances.

It’s not enough to rate the validity of use of force by lethality – pain counts, too. As does humiliation.

You are entitled to disagree, but then you are entitled to receive a bare-ass spanking from me on the subway if I feel you are insubordinate. If you approve of arbitrary power, you must respect my authority. That’s just how it goes.
RickB

The submission to violent authority & identification with it displayed by some comments here shows the American police state may be politically debatable but psychologically it has already succesfully colonised some psyches. Still, makes fiddling elections easier and wars. Mmmmm, authoritarianism.
MitchSchaft

Stpd cllg kds.
Anonymous

mgn wrld whr vryn cts lk ths dt. Ntc hw vryn n ths brd s cllng hm “kd”. H’s 21 yr ld mn wth th mntlty f 12 yr ld DD chld. Thr’s plc nd tm, n nd t b ttl dt bt yr pnns. thnk th plc wr wll wthn thr rght; th kd ws ctng nstbl nd wh knws f h ws bt t pll t gn r knf whn h strtng rsstng rrst. Y gys wh sy ths s plc stt r bng slly nd sbscrbng t grpthnk, pln nd smpl.
Anonymous

The kid needs to look on the bright side: at least Blackwater wasn’t running security.

P.S. Marky, your neocon is showing.
Mark Frauenfelder

Also, employing the passive resistance tactics of Ghandi is no guarantee the police won’t taser or mace you.

Remember the police who used q-tips to rub pepper spray into the eyes of peaceful protestors sitting on the floor? — http://www.nopepperspray.org/

And the UCLA student who was tasered last year was zapped because he went limp and the cops wanted him to get up and leave the library:

“U.C.L.A. police are allowed to use Tasers on passive resisters as ‘a pain compliance technique,’ Assistant Chief Jeff Young said in an interview Friday.” — http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/11/19/passive-resistance-no-match-for-tasers/
Welcome to Wallyworld

The thing is….the reaction of the police to this was TOTALLY OVER THE TOP. How many of them were there? 5? 6? And they couldn’t lift him up and carry him out without zapping him? Ridiculous. Anyway…it was unwarranted…Kerry let him talk…why didn’t they just let him blow off steam and that would have been it. Did somebody say “the New Nazis”?
Graham

I think American cops, post 9-11, have developed a weird complex about their authority. They seem to feel that any threat to it, or to the greater authority of the President, is taser-worthy, at least.

Also, the people who talk about how obnoxious the guy was are really amazing to me. Of course he was obnoxious, he was angry! The question is, why aren’t you angry? Why aren’t you enraged Habeas Corpus is gone, people are being kidnapped and tortured, global warming is destroying the planet and the Iraq war may have killed 600,000 civilians. And all you can say is, that guy should calm down? Wow.
W. James Au

Wow, Nazi references even after Godwin’s been invoked?

The tasering seems totally unjustified in this context and protocol leading up to it should be reformed. That said (and since he’s OK), I do have to wonder if this wasn’t all intentionally contrived as a YouTube viral video from the get go. The kid’s voice doesn’t seem genuinely alarmed or panicked, the video is extremely well recorded for something that was putatively unplanned. Also, the cops claim he shut up and apologized after the cameras were off him, and fellow students say the dude has made other would-be viral videos:

http://www.starbanner.com/article/20070918/NEWS/70918007/1053/BREAKING_NEWS
Anonymous

Shit man …. This was on College turf. IF the guy had the right to go to the microphone and ask a question ..than he had the right.

It’s pretty sad that anyone can say that poor guy deserved to be tasered or treated that way.

What ever happend to civil liberties?

Just remember….one day when the police are kicking and torturing YOU…and you ask for help…don’t be surprised if no one comes to your aid….Its just the new wave ….Lets watch as America goes Nazi.

Wake up and smell the coffee america

The Nazi’s didn’t lose the war ..they just moved to Washington
Mark Frauenfelder

No, I’m not saying that. If you don’t want to get tasered you should always do what the police tell you to do.
xopl

See what John Kerry thinks about all this:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/students-rally-.html
Teresa Nielsen Hayden/Moderator

Mark: Politicians who continue to make planned remarks in spite of noise or other disruption are normal. There was a study of this a while back. Pretty much all successful politicians do it. Otherwise, they could be prevented from delivering their message by anyone willing to start a scuffle or make some noise.

Thecynic, is there anything the police can do that you won’t enthusiastically endorse? Are you so sure that everyone who gets into a scuffle with them brought it on themselves? And how is it that situations that look ambiguous to others are always so clear to you?

For instance, comment #25: if you know that much about police practice in the United States, then you have to know that what you’re saying isn’t true. Hell, I’ve seen police inappropriately suppressing legal free speech in situations where nothing disorderly or threatening was going on, and I haven’t exactly sought out situations where that kind of thing happens.

As for comment #10, skin-contact use of tasers isn’t safe. It’s just safer than firing barbs. And the “What if he had grabbed an officer’s gun?” argument is BS. Did the person try to grab a gun? Does the person know how to use a gun? If not, what you’re saying is that the police have the automatic right to torture anyone who’s within a few feet of them. Which they don’t.

Hettie (17), how else am I going to get a message back to you? And the message is: Sorry about that. I’ve forwarded your comment to BB’s chief tech guy. He says he’ll see what he can turn up. Watch this space.

Anonymous (20): Are you saying they were or weren’t justified in tasering him? Lots of college undergrads have an inadequately realistic picture of the world and their place in it, but I’ve never heard that torturing them did any good.

Stevew (22), excellent point. I’ve known guys who were trained for that kind of work, and they have a large repertoire of fast, effective “stop that and do what I tell you” maneuvers. If tasers are used at all, they should be the second-to-last resort of experts, not the default response of inexperienced doofs.

#27, you may claim you’re a member of the ACLU, but I somehow doubt it.

Xopl (33), I’ve always found Kerry dull, but I like him a lot better than the people he opposes. Why he conceded is a good question, though one probably better addressed elsewhere.

I’ve got no problems with the rest of your remarks.
Anonymous

In trying to create an account, I twice signed up and received a confirmation email for neither account. The attempted display name was “hettie.” Any help? (Sorry, I know this isn’t the appropriate place for this, but I wasn’t sure which boingboing-er to contact. Please don’t post this!)
Pyros

Anyone who thinks the police had the right to electrocute (I prefer not to use prosaic euphemisms when it comes to the actions of a wicked gang of thugs commonly refered to as the police) that protestor is out of their mind. Anyone who asks questions of power nowadays gets arrested and electrocuted by the police and we can’t bring ourselves to universally condemn this? He was resisting arrest? before that he wasn’t doing anything threatening or violent. He was simply asking a question. When they electrocuted him he was on the ground being held down by several thugs.

Don’t misunderstand. I don’t blame the police. I blame society for tolerating this kind of brutality thus making it ok for the police to do whatever the hell they please. Citizens need to be treated with civility, respect and deference by law enforcement, and not as targets upon which to inflict violence for no reason.
zuzu

As others have already said, “just following orders” enables atrocities of organized violence; always pin responsibility on the trigger man.

So yes, hate the cops; they are a gang with guns and gang signs like any other.
http://www.piratesandemperors.com/
Anonymous

No one! No One!! deserves to be tackled by multiple police persons, dragged out, tasered and arrested for speaking out, voicing an opinion, exercising his Constitutional right to Free Speech …

What are we becoming a nation of sheeple?

For all those who believe the policy acted correctly in this matter and those who believe this young man got what he deserved … you should ashamed that you are perpetuating the police state that is now America.

I was raised to believe this type of thing happened in communist China or the Soviet bloc — not in America.

I may not like what you have to say … but goddamn it I’ll defend your right to fucking say it! That’s America bro!~
zuzu

#35 Anarchy is great until you see it in action (look up the history of Somalia between 1999 and 2004).

Hey, I can play that game too!

“Government is great until you see it in action (look up the history of Germany between 1933 and 1945).”
Anonymous

There is better quality video of this here: http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250 and here: http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070917/NEWS/70917016/1002/NEWS
xopl

Well said, Graham.

How can people not be angry? Due process of law has been systematically removed in this country.

Federal agents can monitor an American without notifying a court that they are doing so.

Next, federal agents can arrest an American, without charges. They can prevent this person from challenging their detention in court. They can fly this person to a prison in a foreign country.

Finally, federal agents can use a variety of interrogation techniques on this American in order to break them. Until apparently a few days ago this included water boarding, where you feel as though you will drown. Other methods include nudity, sleep depravation, continuous 24/7 loud audio, and so on.

Those who have no problem with this would use the talking point that “we need to do this in order to extract timely information from terrorists in order to potentially save thousands of lives.”

What if we do this to an American who is innocent? What if the government makes just one single mistake, and does this to one innocent person? Is it worth it? Is it worth it if it was you? Your brother? Your dad? Your friend? Your sister? Your mother? A stranger?

Is it ok if the American is an immigrant?

Is it ok if it is NOT an American, but the person is still INNOCENT?

How many of you recognize the following statement: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal”

That’s from the United States Declaration of Independence. When that was written, the USA did not exist. People from many countries were living on the North American continent in a British colony when that was written. It doesn’t say, nor did it mean, “all American Citizens are created equal.”

If it isn’t acceptable to torture an American Citizen, it is hypocritical and directly contradicts these founding words of the USA to torture foreign nationals.

See next the 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution, in our Bill of Rights:

“Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

If all men as created equal, as the very document that declared us as an independent nation proclaims, then surely all of us deserve protection from cruel and unusual punishment.

If you believe in torture, or if you believe torture is ok so long as it isn’t an American the government is torturing, IT IS YOU WHO ARE UNAMERICAN. IT IS YOU WHO ARE UNPATRIOTIC.

Terrorism does not have the power to directly destroy the USA. We’re too big. We’re too strong. We’re too spread out. We have too many resources. Only we can destroy ourselves by letting the terrorists control us. To quote Colin Powell:

“What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it’s terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No. Can they knock down a building? Yes. Can they kill somebody? Yes. But can they change us? No. Only we can change ourselves.”

Why is the government’s and the media’s message one of fear and failure rather than one of strength, courage, and triumph over evil?
Teresa Nielsen Hayden/Moderator

Anonymous #32, I think you’ve got issues that aren’t entirely connected to this incident.

#35, so only people who can maintain a dead-calm affect at all times are entitled to freedom of speech, and it’s all right for the police to taser anyone who gets agitated?

It’s no doubt admirable that some people can stay calm under all circumstances, even when being threatened or unjustly arrested. That doesn’t mean that any deviation from ultra-calm behavior is cause for being grabbed and tasered by a bunch of badly trained officers.
Anonymous

Phrases to remember next time you protest something and get arrested.

As cops are arresting you:

“Officer, I am not resisting.”

After your arrest, when asked anything beyond your name and home address:

“I respectfully decline to answer any questions until I speak with an attorney.”

That’s it. As a public defender, if I had a guy come in with these statements on a resisting case, I think I would fall over out of joy.
Anonymous

As a student in a Florida public university, my problem is that the Florida Statute that governs the use of Tasers (the dart-shooting version) authorizes their use in custodial situations where the subject has the apparently ability to physically threaten the officers or others OR is preparing or attempting to flee or escape. The UFPD spokesman limited their policy to first circumstance (threat of harm to the officer)

He is a 150-180 lb kid from Weston, FL who has more likely than not grown up believing that he can do no wrong and should always get his way. He was NOT a physical threat to any of the five officers sitting on him… that tends to preclude this particular use of a taser being characterized as appropriate.

no, I do *not* condone his behavior in this situation. He is probably a pretty bright kid, but one would never know based on the way he handled himself and the situation.
noen

When your country is being turned into a fascist police state it’s kinda hard to stay calm.

If you think that playing by their rules will stop it you are delusional.
mneptok

Godwin.
RingMod76

“I can arrange a march about it”

Yeah, but make sure, if it’s required, that you get a permit to exercise your right to free speech in this fashion. Otherwise you might get stunned. Or tasered. Or…you get the idea.

(I’m speculating that you probably have to get a permit in most places to stage a march, but I have no basis for this other than gut feeling.)

Also: “school-principal-on-thorazine style.” Hilarious!
non-BB-gadget-account

I think that was the first time I actually cheered when someone got tased by the cops. As an ACLU supporter I felt almost guilty at the pleasure of seeing that obnoxious dude go down.
Anonymous

He shouldn’t have been arrested in the first place. First amendment gives us the RIGHT of Freedom of Speech and that’s what he was doing. Not once did he get violent or threaten anyone. He didn’t accuse Kerry of anything. He was simply asking a question.

The police said that if he kept refusing to calm down, he would be tasered. He DID settle down. He was just yelling bacause he was upset. He had MANY police officers over him. So basically the cops took the easy way out by tasering him. They were just lazy and decided to misuse their power. It is ridiculous and he should sue the state police and win. Thank you.
stevew

When dealing with someone who is armed and a police officer, anything less than “Yes, sir!”, “No, sir!”, “Three bags full, sir!” is just asking for trouble.

On the other hand, the painfully deficient police hand to hand control with a perp was excruciatingly painful to watch. Who trained these police officers and what are their departmental standards? My dad was an MP and I’ve played with military hand-to-hand combat instructors and light weight state wrestling champs. You are under their control in less than a second unless you run away. The first touch by someone who knows what they’re doing and you are through. Any grab or hold that you attempt is immediately broken and turned into a hold on you and it can be made to be excruciatingly painful at will. They used the taser because they had no other skills.

The very first officer had the protesters arm behind his back and that should have been the end of the story right there. The officer should have been able to get the protester’s total attention and have him on tip-toes and begging for mercy, totally focused on pain or face down on the floor to be cuffed. He had no help from his fellow officer either. It looked like a bunch of drunks in a bar and got worse as they headed for the door. No professionalism whatsoever. I bet that any police officers who watched this video are shaking their heads in dismay.
Anonymous

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Np, blm th kd fr bng rtrd.
Anonymous

Mark you said you can’t fault the cops for following the book. I just want to clarify which book that is, the one that says you should arrest people that ask uncomfortable questions or the one that says if you resist the cops will mess you up.

Posted anon because the sign up system is taking for ever to mail the confirmation
xopl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3CdNgoC0cE
noen

I think that was the first time I actually cheered when someone got tased by the cops. As an ACLU supporter I felt almost guilty at the pleasure of seeing that obnoxious dude go down.

LIE

You are a paid concern troll. You are paid to come here and sow seeds of doubt.

No police state has ever been successfully resisted by peaceful means only. Even the Orange Revolution had the police tacitly on their side. The outrages keep coming faster and faster don’t they? Pretty soon they will come after you Mark, like they did this woman.She is just a music scholar but that didn’t stop the DHS. You’ll be next Mark, after all they consider you a dirty communist anyway.

In every police state you eventually are forced to choose which side you are on. That’s sort of the whole point.

Which side are you on readers? What will you do to stop them?
Brian Carnell

“To the cop haters: I have no doubt the cops were going exactly by the book, the problem isnt them, its the book!”

They were just following orders… er, the book.
cank

It is sad that this kid asked good questions (well, two good questions), the most important of which (voting fraud in 2004) is still not being properly addressed.
jphilby

Police response: what a fucking disgrace. Yet another sad day for America.

Response of hard-asses: this man came to a public forum to ask a question. He had no weapons, threatened no one. His concern, though excitedly expressed, seems genuine, supported by the facts. Your support for the uncalled-for gestapo tactics says mountains about you.
jim

John Kerry served in Vietnam.
phasor3000

Cynic, I think that what’s happening is that a lot of protesters, rather than trying to protest in a way that has maximum effect while remaining just within the edge of legal behavior, are just giving in to their emotional need to rant, rage, and vent. Which I’m sure feels great for about five seconds, until you get tasered, maced, or whatever. And the only people who think it’s cool (the freaking out, not the getting-tasered part) are the ones who are already on the side of the protester. Anyone who’s on the fence is probably just going to think “what an immature idiot,” rather than actually remembering whatever point the protester was trying to make.
Mark Frauenfelder

You are laboring under the mistaken belief that I’m promoting this type of behavior, Thecynic .

In fact, if anything, these videos drive home the advice the ACLU gives about being arrested: http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html
dculberson

The video-taker seriously needs to learn how to operate and hold a video camera. That is just unwatchable.
Anonymous

This is part of a larger issue, I know too many college-aged kids who have no sense of someone else’s privacy. They put up Flickr photos of an office party they had no right to photograph, no permission to photograph, and seemed genuinely defiant that there was anything wrong with portraying our company any way they saw fit… AS INTERNS! They had no concern for anyone else but their whims. One of them decided to write about MY KIDS on their blog. Absolutely not! But if we fired them over it, wouldn’t they complain online about us restricting their speech?

I have some friends who are in a band and their “fans” will make bizarre, troubling photo collages of them, plaster websites with unauthorized photos, of course trade their music online with no money going to the band, remix songs with quotes from movies that do not represent the views of my friends, post names and addresses of my friends’ parents on bulletin boards, and in general stalk and harass my friends so much so that they’re ready to quit being a band. Their fans “demand” they act a certain way and when they don’t they throw hissy fits that further make my friends feel bad about themselves. They’re deathly afraid of turning out like Metallica, seeming uncool to their core audience, but they hate the life they’re living.

This kid has no concept of how to act civilly in a civil society. He treats John Kerry really obnoxiously. I presume he’s battling some kind of panic attack or mental issue, but if not that just reminds me of those kids who demand that bands release on Creative Commons without realizing the band would go bankrupt immediately without royalties.
54N71460

And that dude got served.
noen

They were just following orders

Where have I heard that before?
xopl

John Kerry is the biggest do-nothing there ever was. He’s nothing but talk. Even. Monotone. Unexcited. Talk. Even while police are tasing a student. I’m so done with John Kerry.

Why DID he concede the election?

My country is being turned upside down, and I’m pissed off, too. How do you stay calm after the Nth outrage?

Fine. Remove the kid for being disorderly (read: asking a question), but there’s absolutely no reason that he should have been tased. Here’s a scrawny little kid, and there were several police officers.

And charging him with inciting a riot? Oh come on. You were at best removing him for disorderly conduct, probably with no charges. Do you really get to charge somebody for actions they never would have made had you not arrested them for no reason in the first place?
Dean W. Armstrong

When the Taser was first introduced, we heard it was only to be used in a case where deadly force was the only alternative. This was also the excuse for when the Taser killed someone–well we would have had to used deadly force, they would say, wringing their hands. Now the Taser is used for behaviorial modification in places that deadly force would never be used: ordering a student out of a library, making a protestor not ask a question at a political forum. (I have no sympathy for a protestor being arrested for disrupting a political event, but there is no excuse for being tased), or silencing an unruly defendant. Bouncers at clubs are without such devices and yet can maintain order, merely by threat and menance of force: why aren’t the police doing this? Have we lost the ability to defuse without escalation and torture?
Anonymous

hv nvr sn nyn wh mr dsrvd gd tzng. Wht n dt.
Anonymous

Why concede so much to the “right” of law, Cynic? I find it hard to believe that this person was seeking internet fame. He looked and sounded pitiful. There is an obvious culprit and it’s neither the media nor the arrested. Following orders or going by the book is not a defense against acts of moral turpitude. There is most certainly is a time for self-defense as well as active, even violent protest. Let us have less peace at home and more abroad.

Kudos for those who stand, especially those who stand alone.