The people running this Administration have very much lost my ability to believe they’re telling the truth about the time, much less whether or not prisoners have been treated in accord with the Geneva Conventions.

It’s important to note also that Congress has the full power to outlaw waterbaording. They won’t even attempt to do so, but that have the power.

Contacted after the completion of the ABC News Investigation, CIA official would neither confirm nor deny the accounts. They simply declined to comment.

So, let me get this straight, kev… according to unnamed sources, the CIA used waterboarding only three times back in 2003… yet CIA officials would neither confirm nor deny this claim.

Wow! That’s some really great proof you’ve got there, buddy. You’ve sure made a believer out of me.

You got any inside info about UFO landings, or Jimmy Hoffa’s whereabouts?

If you want to support the abandonment of Israel and the subsequent armageddon style conflict that would erupt in the middle east, we can certainly avoid having enemies. Millions of people will die, but at least they won’t be Americans, right? They’ll be mostly the people involved in the nuclear war that would erupt when Iran goes unchecked for about 10 more years and forces a battle to the death with Israel (possibly less than 10 years, depending on how fast they can invade Iraq and turn the extra oil fields into a profit). I also expect that with an isolationist America, China would certainly capture Taiwan and I don’t see why they wouldn’t go after Japan while they’re at it.

I think an America that doesn’t want to have any enemies is going to be the first thing that ushers in a new world war. These other powers out there aren’t holding back out of the kindness of their hearts, they’re holding back because they fear retribution from America.

There was also an excellent blog post by a former SERE instructor on waterboarding:
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/

Both are must reads for torture apologists like kevitivity, above.

1. I read your fine article. “Quotes” from *anonymous* “CIA officials” are certainly all I need to convince me! After all, the CIA never lied to me about Iraq WMD, or Valerie Plame’s status, or how wonderfully effective “enhanced interrogation” techniques are (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1322866).

2. Waterboarding is NOT torture because the Democrats haven’t banned it yet and because they only did it to three people. Cool! Hey, dudes, let’s dust off the thumbscrews! We’re golden, as long as we only use them on three guys and the Dems don’t ban them!

Frankly, my friend, the only “fringe moron” posting here is you.

After all, Asst. Attorney General Levin offered to try it to see, and he did it under close supervision, with medical personnel present (so logically he would know that his life was not in danger), and yet he STILL felt his life was in danger, and confirmed that “YES it is torture.” And I’m sure he went into it hoping to confirm it wasn’t torture.

So those of you who suggest it isn’t torture– are you calling a member of the Bush Justice Department a liar?

But are you arguing that torture should be acceptable under some circumstances? For instance, if the one to be tortured is obviously a terrorist, and is obviously withholding information?

So, you mentioned fringie morons. Exactly where is that line drawn?

I’m curious about what definition of “torture” you’re using.

Collapsed lungs and drowning sure seem like “pain and suffering” to me.

Waterboarding, which hasn’t been used since 2003, was only used on three people. Each of whom were important Al Qaeda leaders. Very useful, actionable intel was gathered from these sessions that may have saved thousands of lives.

How put this succintly… ah, got it. Bullshit.

Why do I say that? Because interrogation (and the teaching of same) is what I do. US Army, 1993 to present. Class 94 Echo 01 (OCT-DEC) 93. I was the V Corps Order of Battle NCOIC A/519th MI in during the shooting war. When the shooting stopped I was in a THT OMT, until I was medevacced.

Google my name and torture, or interrogation to see other things I’ve said on the subject.

The rest of this may get a little strongly worded. I think I can walk this side of disemvowelling, but if I don’t, just run the search.

As to the claim that it’s only been used on three people, one of two things is going on here. 1: You are talking bollocks, and have no idea what you are talking about.

2: You are in possession of classified information and in violation of the release documents you signed when read-on to the program you have published it.

I am leaning toward one. Be glad of that. If you want to convince me that 2 is the case, I will be more than willing (in fact I would be duty bound) to inform a field office of the 902nd Intelligence Battalion about it, so they can investigate.

To the meat of the matter.

Torture doesn’t work. Since it doesn’t work, waterboarding (even so few as three people) hasn’t produced any actionable intel. Full stop.

Torture doesn’t work because the subject will say anything to make it stop (and if you think waterboarding isn’t torture, make one, and let someone use it on you. Make sure you tell them to ignore your pleas to stop. That will be a pale imitation of the real thing, because you will know who is doing it, and knew in advance they weren’t going to kill you, and will stop).

Since he will say anything (and, apparently) is claiming to be ignorant under more benign questioning, he is being asked things which he might not know anything about. When he starts to lie; you will have no way to verify the information.

At which point the stream is either corrupted (most likely, since most people know nothing) or the information is uncorroborated, and needs someone else to confirm it, which means either 1: just as much time as a traditional interrogation would have taken, or will use more torture, and provide more suspect information.

Torture or, uh, coercive interrogation, it was unpleasant enough to induce the victims to confess to false capital charges, for which they were all executed. Must have been pretty nasty.

“I should not take a position on waterboarding until I know precisely what we’re talking about. If we’re talking about what the media says constitutes waterboarding, I have said that I think that’s repulsive. But I’ve also said that I have not been briefed on precisely what we do. I would want to keep an open mind until I heard that.”

- Rudy Giuliani

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