Comments on: UK mall bans grandparents for trying to photo their grandkids

By: xydeco

xydeco — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

#42 – Did any of the Sept. 11th hijackers photograph the World Trade Center?

Well I have it on excellent authority that in his wallet can be found a nicely composed and lighted self-snapped photo of the twin towers that, photographic novice that he is, Mr. Cheney is inordinately proud of.

By: PetiteSalope

PetiteSalope — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Heavily-trafficked public places (like malls and airports) are essentially the equivalent of mass petri dishes for testing just how much large-scale humiliation and absurdity people will endure in the name of “stopping terrorism.” I worked at a mall for several years in college and I couldn’t get out fast enough. Fewer people visiting the mall would be an excellent idea, overall.

By: the specialist

the specialist — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

An apology is NOT recompense for these peoples inconvenience, emotional stress, time, and now, having the unwanted publicity of having their faces plastered all over the intertubes. This event will haunt them for a long, long time.

An apology is only words. Anyone can issue an apology – watch this – “i’m sorry” – there – was that sincere enough???? shall I type more??? An apology does NOT erase the fact that someone has been wronged or hurt!!! An apology is NEVER enough.

If the person(s) responsible will not step up to the plate and make a good faith effort to recompense these folks (like with a gift certificate) then the persons responsible must be punished – if the law won’t step up to the plate, hit where it hurts – the only place they will pay attention – in their wallet. Money (or the loss of it) is one of the very few motivators for adults.
BOYCOTT.

By: Agit

Agit — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

in the 50′s:

“ZOMG!!!11111 Communists are EVERYWHERE@!!!111!1!1″

in the 00′s:

“ZOMG!!!11111 turrists are EVERYWHERE@!!!111!1!1″

Where is our Ed Murrow?

By: easyTree

easyTree — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

This is awesome. Every time something like this is publicised, people will be pushed towards the conclusion that our way of life is retarded and maybe the terrorists will bring an improvement [if they even exist.]

Stupid stupid retards everywhere abusing power that was given them to hold in trust on our behalf. Public servants who’ve become little emperors. Guardians of ‘the rules’ on the Island of Dr. Moreau.

I’m sick of it. Aren’t you?

As a Brit, I’m sooo tired of what this country has become. Almost any change should be an improvement.

By: superuser2

superuser2 — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

The goal of a terrorist is not to kill people – that’s just an added bonus. The goal of a terrorist is to create, well, terror – just like this. They have succeeded.

To others – exactly. It’s the same as anti-Communism.

By: g.park

g.park — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

@AGIT:

And there’s more (moving backwards): 1970′s-today: terrorists, 1940′s-1960′s: Commies, 1900′s-1930′s: anarchists & seditionists, 1880′s-1900′s: immigrants (this one’s coming back!), 1860′s-1880′s: abolitionists (or anti-abolitionists, depending on your position relative to the Mason-Dixon)….

Before that we had other nations to scapegoat, like the Spanish, Mexicans, or British- before we realized it was much easier to hate “invisible” enemies at home than real enemies abroad.

We also did a bangup job on witches for a while.

The internet is our Edward R. Murrow now.

By: Buxton

Buxton — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I’m also pretty nearby. I’ll be in Fareham town centre on Saturday anyway, so I might see if I can get some sneaky photos of the place.

I’ll try to remember to flickr tag them “farehamshoppingcentre” if I get any done.

By: dainel

dainel — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I live in Malaysia, a Muslim country, in southeast Asia. One of those *not* particularly well known for freedom and civil liberties. I take photos where I want, whenever I want, and nobody ever asked me not to. I’ve many photos of malls, shops, government buildings, police stations, airports, inside airplanes, etc. Except for inside museums, I can’t think of any place where taking photos is prohibited.

On airplanes, there’s no silly rule about not taking water or liquids on board. I asked and they tell me that that rule only applies if you’re going to America or Europe. For travelling in Asia, they don’t care. As for the 2 hour security check lines, well, ours is about 2 minutes. At the most. Usually, you just walk up, and go straight through.

I think those “freedom loving” people out west are stupid for allowing things to get to where they are now. The people spreading terror, (the real terrorists) stealing your freedoms, is not Al-Qaeda. Guess who they are.

By: Antinous

Antinous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

RougeRedHack,

The whole point about terrorism, and I mean mall-sponsored security terrorism, is that you can’t take back fear and humiliation. Whether it’s Al Qaeda or the US government or whoever doing it, it works by creating an atmosphere which causes people to fear participating in normal activities.

By: funkyderek

funkyderek — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Terrorists, don’t fear. The shopping centre’s official website has a floorplan: http://www.farehamshopping.com/store_directory/index.html
Fareham Borough Council’s website has a more technical plan, as well as a few photos and some useful details about the structure and location of the centre: http://www.fareham.gov.uk/council/departments/planning/design/assessment19.asp
I’m not really sure what information the Fareham branch of Al-Qaeda could get from the photos that they couldn’t find more easily online.

By: Cowicide

Cowicide — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

#18 posted by beerzie:

You’re either with the malls or you’re with the terrorists.

Har! Har! So true…

Remember, the day after the terrorists hit us on 9/11 Bush told the American public to go shopping… so you also have to go BUY stuff at the malls or you’re with the terrorists too. Those grandparents were NOT SHOPPING at the mall. ALERT!

By: Buxton

Buxton — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I went on a photo-tourism jaunt today.

All the links are up on http://matt.fowler.googlepages.com

I took a bunch of photos which are in this flickr set: http://flickr.com/photos/mattfowler/sets/72157603637833680/

And a video, which is up on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN3OgJNGswE

At no point did mall security approach me, and there are definitely no posted “no photography” signs.

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I think part of the whole outrage is that these people were in the country for only a few days. Somehow I doubt that the ‘apology’ and the news that they’d be welcome in the mall again came before they had to go back to Spain.

By: edgore

edgore — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

“I’m not really sure what information the Fareham branch of Al-Qaeda could get from the photos that they couldn’t find more easily online.”

Clearly they were trying to get real-time information on fluid levels in the water fountains and food court drink dispensers to assist in the creation of deadly liquid bombs.

By: ill lich

ill lich — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Well. . . if the mall manager says it helps the terrorists, who am I to argue. After all, he’s a mall manager, they’re well-known experts on terrorism, because the terrorists hate us for our shopping malls.

This kind of paranoid silliness is going on everywhere.

By: epredator

epredator — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Its not as if its even a very good mall.
Oddly there is a camera shop where you get to try out things in teh main hall and lots of phone shops all selling camera phones.
I may go and do some live streaming, or just a 3g video call.
Given the number of camera trained on us in the UK I can only assume that that is a major security threat if that fell into the wrong hands.
How madly stupid this is.
I know a collegue was asked to leave Southampton mall becuase his camera looked “too professional”.
So maybe box brownies or pin hole cameras would be ok? :-)

By: EH

EH — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

There needs to be enough people taking pictures for the mall to have to hire a lot more guards.

By: Village Idiot

Village Idiot — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I haven’t been to a Mall in over a decade, but if I was in a similar situation (a technically “private” place like a Mall but open to the public) and a security guard so much as laid a hand on me, I’d tear his head off. I’ve seen them do this before.

Ask me nicely to stop taking pictures and leave? OK, by the time you asked I probably already got my pics, and the place is vile anyway so sure I’ll go… But if you try to “help” me leave, you go to the hospital with a shattered patella. Don’t escalate it either; they’ll tase you or something before you can KO ‘em, so just be calm until touched then do what needs to be done and leave. Not to real cops, mind you (no sense getting yourself killed…), just the privately hired knuckle-dragging shaved ape control freaks. If you are a free man or woman, act like one.

By: Inti

Inti — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

How about a flash mob in that mall?
Get a large group of people gather there, take their cameras out all at the same time, take a picture and then leave just as they came. See what the rent-a-bully say to that.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Unfortunately these stories are becoming less and less surprising. Last year in London a policeman threatened to arrest me for being a terrorist when I politely asked if I could have my picture taken by a war memorial.

Take your camera everywhere, photo everything.

By: simplehuman

simplehuman — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

My best friend in college was the second in command of a security guard company in the Chicago burbs. He did all the hiring and firing and told me that the most dangerous and problematic people he dealt with were guys (always guys) who couldn’t hack it in law enforcement (either rejected initially or had some weird reason they never tried) and wanted to get into security as a “back-up”. The best? Retired cops (who can retire in their early 40′s here in Illinois) who actually knew the law and also knew how to keep situations from escalating. They didn’t sweat the small stuff or hassle people who weren’t actually, y’know, causing a ruckus. That’s why ex-cops can all buy name their salaries for security and bodyguard gigs.

By: Clay

Clay — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I’m still trying to figure out where this international meme of “cameras are tools of terrorists” actually came from.

I mean, think about it… How will photos of anything help a terrorist? Do we have any stories of suicide bombers in Palestine descending with cameras and light meters upon the market they plan to attack; do Iraqi insurgents take an album of photos of the spot on the road where they have planned to place an IED?

Or do they just, you know, decide on a location they scouted out before and blow things up?

Will that photo of the Cinnabon really help a terrorist plot his deed any more than simply going there, looking around, and ordering a PecanBon?

By: schmod

schmod — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

#15: Nothing against you personally, but I can’t for the life of me understand why most people and governments closely associate terrorists with Bond villains.

That would be giving them *FAR* too much credit.

Terrorists are typically disillusioned 20-somethings with easy access to explosives. (The UK should also know a thing or two about *real* terrorists, having *successfully* dealt with the IRA for all those years, without resorting to this sort of bullshit)

By: ecobore

ecobore — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

This is another example of kneejerk fear and extremism. In fact, exactly what terrorists want us to do. Any terrorist wanting to photograph the centre could do it easily with a hidden camera or even a cell phone!!!!
I urge ALL people who live near the Fareham Shopping Centre to go in there and take pictures. They can’t eject everyone, and they need to be shown just how stupid their policy is!

By: tobornottobefree

tobornottobefree — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Same deal as some airports .. you get asked to shut down your mobile phone even though it has no camera function .. this repeated insult to our intelligence can only be met with a radical stance. Vote with your feet, challenge stupid liquid restrictions, ask for the answer to the question “why?” and challenge the new “because” a.k.a. security in your interests …… I agree with other posts, let’s get a disposable camera sponsor to confront these bullies .. the real enemy is inertia we must stop this nonsense now, its a infantile as believing politicians.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

You can hear the laughter rolling through the mountains surrounding Bin Laden’s camp. Set-off a few bombs, then sit-back and watch the western world eat itself. Sweet plan.

By: Blue

Blue — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I look forward to the day such idiots realise that, actually, PEOPLE are a security risk.

What then? ZOMG!! Ban teh peepulz!

By: Gillagriene

Gillagriene — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

while I haven’t been to the mall in Syracuse (well, I took the silly three stop train there, but that was for class) I know that the reason that persons under 18 aren’t allowed in the Gallaria (one of the large malls near Buffalo NY) without parent supervision is because of shoplifting. *shrugs* They claim shoplifting went down after they did that. I haven’t seen any real numbers though.

By: hohum

hohum — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

@OM, #6 – Agreed, a lot of “mall cops” are nothing of the sort. Yet we have quite the opposite problem in Frederick, MD. Our pathetic little one-story mall that is rarely even patronized (and is soon to be destroyed and turned into a new super-dee-duper mall) is “protected” by real cops. I don’t mean real ex-cops, I mean real, on duty cops. Why is this a problem? Because for whatever reason, that pathetic little mall is above paying the standard cop rental fee, so those on-duty officers are there for free. The cops doing that shift also get paid more for whatever reason. So my tax money goes toward paying police officers to hang out at a nearly empty mall and stop people from robbing the 33 cent store. It’s been a big, ongoing stink around here. Also, while we don’t have the no-<18y.o.-w/o-parent rule, we do have some equally ridiculous rules… “No wearing hoods.”

Anyway, the whole no-cameras thing is standard policy in pretty much any mall. I agree this was taken a bit too far but I don’t think it’s worth making a huge stink over. I am a bit surprised because I didn’t think they were as quick to jump on the “AH! TERR’ST” fear in the U.K. Yes it’s an unfortunate thing, and it should be looked into and all, and the guards should be trained to handle minor issues with a bit more tact, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal.