Creationist dioramas at kids' science fair

Bennett Gordon at Utne Reader's science and tech blog writes,

Like all science fairs, you could tell which projects had parental help and which ones didn’t at the 2008 Home School Science Fair. The blue-ribbon winning project on dinosaurs and people roaming the earth together, with the color photos and the perfectly cut lettering, probably had parental help. The one explaining how a broken motor disproves Darwin's theory of evolution, with the roughly cut pieces of paper and the penciled in chicken scratches, probably did not.

Every diorama in the Home School Science Fair, which took place inside a shopping mall in Roseville, Minnesota, had a biblical quote attached to it. A young woman whose project involved teaching her dog how to run circles between her legs decorated the words: “If you love me, you will obey what I command.” (John 14:15) in pink lace fabric. This quote got to the crux of the science fair, in my opinion: parental commandment. These parents pulled their children out of school, away from their peers, and said, “Now prove that Darwin was wrong.”

Link (thanks, Brian Lam!)


  1. Not that I have any ‘faith’ in the judges, but perhaps the blue ribbon winner was the child who used the best scientific methods to prove their point.


  2. The group that sponsors this has a website here:

    and sells “home school creation science suppliments”

    You also have to appreciate their tips for success:

    Five things to remember:

    1. Know your material.

    2. Be Confident.

    3. Communicate well.

    4. Be thorough.

    5. Pray your exhibit will witness to non-Christian visitors.

  3. What a worthless article. To summarize:

    “This homeschooler creationist science fair is filled with homeschoolers and creationists!”.

  4. I feel ill.

    “Fossil evidence says ‘yes'”?

    I thought that fossils were placed in the ground by the devil as a test of faith?

    Ugh. Why don’t they just lobotomize these kids and be done with it? Sick.

  5. Twenty-odd years ago, as fundamentalist-based homeschooling/private schooling was starting to take off, I did a small writing-assessment project at a church-based school that used Accelerated Christian Education, a workbook-based, self-paced curriculum. One of the strangest workbooks had a variation on the old familiar “fact vs. opinion” checklist, in which facts were defined as either something that is demonstrably true (“Washington DC is the capitol of the USA”) or a truth that is revealed by the Bible (“God created the universe in six 24-hour days”). Opinion was an unverifiable judgement based on personal preference (“chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream”) or “materialist,” non-Bible-based “science” that denies God’s Truth (“the Earth is millions of years old”). Needless to say, the quizzes on that section were…interesting.

  6. Although I agree that what these children are being taught is very sad, I get very nervous when I see these sorts of articles and they focus on the homeschooling as the source of their ills, rather than the shitty, uber-religious upbringing.

    We are atheist, Darwin-loving, Harry Potter-reading homeschoolers and it really pains me that we all have to be tainited with the same brush because a part of our community is going on a certain path. Religion is not the only reason people homeschool.

    Also, “away from their peers”? They’re at a Christian science fair. They’re surrounded by their peers. Please break away from out-dated stereotypes of the kid locked in the house all day, religious or not.

  7. Book of Job, chapter 38-40.
    Book of Genesis, entire creation account.
    The creation account was written to indicate that YHWH made all that humans can see, so humans really have no business worshipping it, but they do have to care for some of it. Note how God goes at length describing His dealings with one group of people in His book, but the way He set the stage? Meh, couple of chapters. So why do some of His people spend their time and energy on arguing stuff like this? Besides, where were they when God made it all, as if they know exactly how He made it?
    /Really wishes my brothers and sisters would use their thinking caps.

  8. ” Randomly Selected Pictures Have Been Removed Because Some Sick Atheist Used Them To Demean Kids — Even Those Who Disagree With Creation Ought To Be Disgusted With Those Tactics!”

  9. Having been raised as a homeschooler, I think it’s important to point that homeschooling has nothing to do with this idiocy. This is all the fundies.

  10. #7

    That’s a pretty odd set of categories alright.

    Other than the obvious fact that their “fact” category basically comes out to “things we want to believe in, and things that are demonstrably true as long as they don’t contradict things we want to believe in”, I find their choice of a “demonstrably true” fact to be odd.

    I think I would be hard pressed to demonstrate to a sceptic that Washington DC is the capital of the USA. I could find other people and documents that agree with me. I could point out a rather fine white building and a sign claiming it’s the capitol building. If I were somewhat influential, I might be able to arrange a meeting with a person claiming to be the president, in a room he claims is his office. But I don’t see how I could possibly demonstrate that Washington is the capital (or even that a particular city is Washington, for that matter).

  11. #5: Disagree completely. See reply to #12 below.

    #10: LOL.

    #11: Immediately stopped LOL. I agree with you completely.

    #12: What are you talking about? If you had actually clicked on the link. you’d have read that the writer made it a point NOT to embarass the home-schooled kids with pointed questions in a public place. They are merely repeating back that which has been fed to them by the people they SHOULD be able to trust most: their own parents.

    Speaking of hazy…that describes my recollections of christianity not being harmful in America, years and years ago, when parents actually sent their kids to public school with no sense of conflict whatsoever between science class and Sunday church.

  12. Roughly stolen from a slashdot sig:

    When evidence points out holes in evolution, evolution is wrong.
    When evidence points out holes in the Bible, the evidence is wrong.

  13. No no no, you all have it wrong!

    The project actually turned a fossil into a real life dinosaur who (in perfect english) gave evidence that humans were around at the same time (and dinos also had vocal chords).

    Yeah, though I’m sure that had parental help too, no child has access to enough nuclear materials.

  14. it ain’t the Billy Grahams that you should worry about. It’s all those mindless little zombies with their bibles in one hand and guns in the other.

  15. I work at the mall where this happened. (Yes Really.) The window of my department looked right out on the one that got 2nd place. This was the kid who attempted to use a broken motor to disprove evolution. My boss (an earnest Wiccan) went out to see what the whole thing was. That exhibit in particular caused him to read a book on Intelligent Design (Flock of Dodos I think…) and our whole department was shuddering the whole weekend.

  16. Of course we share the planet with Dinosaurs. Get on the bus and visit your nearest megga-church. You can observe them feeding.

  17. hey #12, you obviously didn’t read the article; sorry.

    I still can’t understand why these supposed Christians can’t treat scientists in a Christian manner. Love Thy Neighbour should apply to scientists too, but yet it evidently does not.
    These people would be appalled if proper scientific rigour was ignored when creating drugs for them and their children to take, but yet they abhor proper scientific rigour in the study of Geology. Really, folks? Geology is your biggest worry in this world?

  18. I’ve often maintained that fundies everywhere be denied by law any benefits of modern medicine and science. Let them squat in their own filth.

  19. It’s interesting that the principles of science are trusted by Creationists when the results are higher resolution TV sets, better medicine, more complex edible food-like substances, smaller cell phones, new chemicals for cleaning our pools, etc, but apply those same principles in the sciences where results may contradict the bible and you’ve got the devil in the mix and the results are false. I have always wanted to go through the bible and find where it gives explicit instructions for how to do something mundane and then contrast that with the modern method which has been improved with science. You’ve ignored the bible-directed way to husband your cattle in favor of feedlots (er, not that I agree with the “science” behind feedlots)? Why don’t you believe geology over Genesis?

  20. “contradict the bible”; grumphh! Firstly, more than half these chimpanzees can’t or won’t read the bibles they carry. They allow the big monkey to interpret it for them. Secondly, try asking your typical believer who “wrote” the bible, what language(s) were used and does he or she have any experience with translation, transcription and archival work. You can’t argue with them, just wave a TV remote or a doughnut at them.

  21. Hahahahaha. I was homeschooled for a few years and my parents dragged me to one of these.

    I just remember the one exhibit that disproved logic or something, thusly: “1. Aristotle, Socrates, Plato etc were ancient Greeks; 2. They all had the ghey (insert copious evidence of ghey behavior, in some detail ?!); 3. The ghey is wrong (insert copious Bible quotes); 4. Therefore we must reject secular logic and science”.

    It won an award.

    Although I am curious about the dinosaur/human footprint thing. I’ve seen that photo mentioned in a few places, along with a tree branch vertically through multiple layers of strata. The former especially would seem to be an example of Stephen Jay Gould’s “rabbit in the Precambrian”. I looked before but couldn’t seem to find anything. Anyone have info confirming or debunking it? I’d appreciate it.

    P.S. Watch Nova’s Intelligent Design on Trial to see how intelligent design teaching as implemented is quite literally a simple renaming of Christian creationism. Amazing to see all the “Christian” creationists perjuring themselves to the court, bribing, sneaking books into classrooms, and various other shenanigans. By your fruit you shall know them indeed.

  22. This doesn’t seem like a Minnesota Norwegian Lutheran thing. I’m going to have to talk to Garrison and see what the h-e-double-hockey sticks is going on in Roseville.


  23. Pray your exhibit will witness to non-Christian visitors.

    Ugh. “Witness” is the filthiest word in that stupid cult’s vocabulary.

    Witnessing: Never, ever, shutting the fuck up about the stupid shit you’ve decide to believe until the people that don’t believe the same stupid shit also never, ever shut the fuck up about it.

    The more they talk the more they convince themselves that it is reality. The more they talk, the more they convince themselves that everyone else is just stupid and evil. The more they talk, the less than think and look and participate in the world around them.

    For every person that thinks “belief” is a positive force in the world, there are thousands of “believers” proving you wrong every second of the day.

  24. I wouldn’t worry too much. After all, we live in a duality: we need science and we need anti-science. Perhaps the kid whose nutty parents want him to think like a creationist will grow up to be a science fiction writer. People need options, just for the sake of variety.

  25. options? like good health or cancer? I make a value judgement here: organized religion is evil. It is dangerous. It should be fought with science, reason and spirituality (ie: disorganized religion) christianity,like judaism and islam,can be overcome.

  26. i always wondered where the next batch of neocon republicans were comin from…thank gawd there will be no shortage!

  27. I don’t see what the big deal is…this is a home school science fair. This appears to be the main reason that parent’s home school their kid’s…so they can control what is taught and usually put a “non-secular” spin on it. If this was a public school science fair, I could see why this would cause a stir.

    Is the fact that most Christians don’t fully adopt Darwinism a surprise to anyone here?

  28. “Actually…seems like they proved Darwin right.”

    Actually, seems like they proved Darwin wrong… by existing.

    Or maybe they just proved its beneficial to be god damn ignorant.

  29. #40: Thanks for that link. This homeschooling mom, who is obviously a religious person, has singlehandedly and thoroughly DEBUNKED the lunacy of creationism.

    God bless you “Rebecca,” wherever you are. WELL DONE.

  30. Oddly, neither Intelligent Design nor Natural Selection adequately explain the existence of stupid people.

  31. While many Christian fundamentalists are Republicans, many Republicans are not Christian Fundamentalists.

    Personally, I’m not even a Republican, in that I do not identify with the party. I happen to agree with the Republican party on more things than the Democratic party. But I still find teaching Creationism/Intelligent Design to be an abomination and a travesty.

    I find it interesting that the party that is most likely to support cultural relativism (and is most likely to accept, for example, Muslim fundamentalism as a valid lifestyle choice) is so vehemently opposed to teaching creationism… seems like it should be considered a valid part of their culture. But the culture of White American Christians is the only one that’s not acceptable, I guess. Especially if they are Republicans.

    Also, as others have pointed out, not all home schoolers are ignorant fundamentalists. My wife and I have considered home schooling our children because she is a teacher and they are intelligent and our public school system is designed to teach average kids to pass standardized tests and private schools are very expensive (or have some ideology that taints their education).

  32. #43

    Fewer than a third of homeschooling families choose to homeschool primarily for religious reasons. Of those motivated primarily by religion, not all are Christian, and not all of the ones that are Christian believe in or teach creationism/ID.

    The rest of us – the vast majority of homeschoolers – attend real science fairs and wouldn’t be caught dead at the kind of event described in this article.

  33. no, not really. “Voting” means to make a conscious choice. All these little purple kool-aid sucking clone-droids do is mark the ballot according to their overlord’s directive.

  34. How can these people do that to these children?!?

    I remember back in the day when “if ants eat Pop Rocks, will they explode?” was the definition of a bad science project.

    Holy crap this story makes me sad.

  35. I just wanted to throw in another voice of a sanely homeschooled person. My brother and I were homeschooled for purely educational reasons and there was no creationism involved – my mom has a degree in microbiology and she used it! I think we had the best science classes because our mom let us do things that none of my friends got to do in public school.

  36. It is not the size and quality of the brain that makes this type of person viable as a sub-species. It is their need/willingness to group together in large numbers for safety and ignorance. If these “people” where to leave the safety of their own tribes and attempt to co-exist with rational people, they would thankfully disappear to the annals of time. They at best would serve as a good test group for Darwinian study much like the Galapagos finches.

  37. I’d also like to point out that in addition to being a sanely homeschooled person, I am also a Christian who believes in evolution – yes we exist! Please don’t judge the whole based on the actions of a few.

  38. I always thought that kids who were home-schooled by fundamentalist Christian parents would end up woefully equipped to deal with the real world once they graduated their bible colleges, and would have a hard time finding work that fit their training. The Bush administration has proven me wrong

  39. Dear Anonymous:

    How do you reconcile your professed organized religion with evolutionary theory? Please be at ease in your answer,this is not a trap. Teresa would
    hurt me too badly to risk such.

  40. Ignore that fact that the average homeschooled kid scores FAR higher in standardized testing and so forth.
    Ignore that public education is mandatory, you can’t choose which school to attend (in most districts) and you learn next to nothing for your thousands of hours spent in STATE school.

    THIS is surely child abuse!

  41. @ 49
    Why do you guys have to make fun of people?

    For several reasons. One, it’s really all you can do, we’ve been out of power for 8 years. And it’s a fairly effective weapon short of um… actual weapons. Three there is some major league stupid out there and it’s not like you can reason with them. You ever try to “debate” a creationist? Finally, religious fundamentalism of whatever faith, represents a very real threat. Yet there is really little we can do, which takes us back to #1.

  42. How do you reconcile your professed organized religion with evolutionary theory?

    Most religions have mass adherents, who literally believe sacred stories, and sophisticated adherents who acknowledge that these stories are metaphors for more archetypal, philosophical concepts. In Hinduism, most people view Shiva as a big, divine humanoid and some people view Shiva as primal, undifferentiated consciousness. I think that the creation story in Genesis is a pretty sophisticated metaphor given how ancient it is. It contains a kernel of Big Bang theory and a kernel of evolutionary theory in its suggestion that the world has taken shape over a period of time. The idea of ‘educated’ people, en masse, taking the Bible literally seems new. And bad.

  43. @49

    One side you have the people who tell you that if you don’t believe what they do then you will be tortured for eternity by very real demons.

    On the other side are people who say that is dumb.

    Boo hoo.


    If it makes you feel any better, Muslims are dumb too.

    Now wipe away those tears!

  44. This is stupid, but since when were 99% of the experiments at a school science fair anything other than copying a proven hypothesis from somewhere, and then proceeding to prove it?

  45. Raisedbywolves @ 54: The real question is whether the pop-rock eating ant could fly if it were on a moving treadmill.

  46. rasputin7: Ignore that fact that the average homeschooled kid scores FAR higher in standardized testing and so forth.

    Yeah, no kidding that they will be able to parrot whatever the test expects from them. Or their religious teacher and parents. Lots of learning to contort to please the authority figure, less critical thinking (although plenty of skills as weapons to defend the approved viewpoint).

    There’s plenty of empirical evidence out there to support the idea that homeschooling produces young adults who can interact great with authority figures but not at all with their peers, and hence fail at life.

  47. VSYNC, show me your empirical evidence. I’ve been paying attention to homeschooling and the research done on it for about 25 years. Every study I’ve seen relating to social/emotional outcomes (and there are quite a few now) points to exactly the opposite conclusion you claim. The research finds homeschoolers are more mature, more self-confident, have less aggression toward peers, and solve peer-related problems more readily. AND they can get along with adults.

    Again, the majority of families are NOT homeschooling primarily for religious reasons these days. They are not authoritarians. They are not brainwashing their children. The faction (fraction) you’re generalizing about are the minority fringe.

  48. Dr. Evil: The details of my life are quite inconsequential.
    Therapist (Carrie Fisher): Oh no, please, please, let’s hear about your childhood.
    Dr Evil: Very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Some times he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we’d make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen, a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum, it’s breathtaking, I suggest you try it.
    Therapist: You know, we have to stop.

  49. #50 — the reason christian fundamentalists are not accepted and tolerated by the left is that (1) they insist on pushing their beliefs on upon others through education, legislation, evangelicism, etc. and (2) though not a majority, they are not quite the little oppressed minority that the left would sympathize with. if muslim fundamentalists in the US were as powerful as christian fundamentals, and also sought to introduce their doctrine into schools, laws, etc, you can bet the left would be up in arms as well. the left isn’t opposed to all white christians, just the ones that behave like this. the amish, who have pretty radical beliefs but don’t make any attempt to push them on others, are a good example. i’ve never heard of anyone on the left bashing the amish for their lifestyle. in the end, i think the most people on the left oppose the intolerance of the christian right, more than their christianity per se.

  50. Actually Neuron, we’re getting close to having a good understanding of that too. When we do there will be no more reason to posit a supernatural creator for the universe than for say… thunderbolts.

  51. what a downer;both the article and some of these comments.
    i was homeschooled,and my parents were,in fact,uber-religious at the time.the religion was an awful experience,the homeschooling was wonderful…and my HSing situation was nowhere near ideal.effective teaching and learning are not one-size-fits-all set-ups.there can,and i think should, be as many different ways of educating as there are different kinds of kids.

    restrictive,oppressive living conditions are sad,period.but i would submit that these kids being homeschooled has nothing to do with that.

  52. Wrote a long comment. Submitted it. The system tells me the text entered was wrong. LOL!

    In essence I wanted to say that most home educators in the UK are not home educating for religious reasons, but I have come across a few who are. Frankly I think those children who live in homes where their parents have very strong religious beliefs that discount the idea of evolution, are going to be healthier and happier out of school, rather than somewhere where they are brought into conflict with the ideas they have been taught are right.

    Because we live in an adversarial system, we think that people should be challenged by the alternatives to their ideas… but in fact the people I have met who were most vociferously anti-evolution and pro-creationism in the UK were brought up in ordinary schools with the routine scientific ideas and then rejected all that when they got religion. Being exposed to the alternatives did not make a difference.

    In any case, what neither scientists nor priests realise, is that for most ordinary people, things are not “proven”, at least not to the individual, they are simply learned about. Thus nano technology seems no less fantastical than the creation story, and moon landings no more likely than the parting of the waters.

    In the end, you can’t tell the other guy what to believe, or else how are you different from the fundamentalists?

  53. Please folks: not all home learners are fundies; in BC, Canada we often register here: because registration is legally required
    and follow a philosophy almost diametrically opposed to the Christian home school model called unschooling.
    I cringe at all the false assumptions people have about home schooling:
    and I am glad my son is getting an education, not just accreditation

  54. @ Takuan (59): Dear Anonymous:

    How do you reconcile your professed organized religion with evolutionary theory? Please be at ease in your answer,this is not a trap. Teresa would hurt me too badly to risk such.

    Ok, I’m not this “Anonymous” person. But I am also a Christian who is okay with the idea of evolutionary theory. (But have never been homeschooled in this sense) And I don’t mind if this is a trap, can’t hold me anyway.
    So here’s the deal: In the Genesis creation account, the word for “Day” can also mean “Age”. Do you know the phrase “Back in the day…”? Same kind of idea, in later Biblical texts prophecy ts given where one day is a year. (See last few chapters of Daniel.) Now also in this account, pretty much all of the light-producing or reflecting objects of the sky are formed… on the *fourth* day. As we know from psychological tests, take these (and timekeeping devices) away from humans, and it is a little hard for those humans to tell time anymore. Now if they simply don’t exist yet, how am I somehow given the authority to declare those first three days literal 24 hour days? Even then, how dare I pretend to know just how and when YHWH created? But what I do know is this: am I to believe that all of the “building blocks” of life just came together, without any cause or causer, despite the incalcuable odds? Now *that’s* what bothers most Christians. Remember that pretty much everything in the Bible is about how God works in human history, not so much the natural world. (though He does a little of that too)
    now Takuan, I’m not sure why “organized religion” (especially Chrisianity, it seems) frustrates you so. If it is anything any Christian did, I apologize, we Christians need to u-turn away from these things. Forgive us, and know that I Agapao and Phileo you.
    Have a good day, and goodnight!

  55. @ 80
    So here’s the deal: In the Genesis creation account…

    Which account? There are two.

    “Day” can also mean “Age”

    The Biblical creation accounts do not in any way reflect a scientific understanding of the history of the universe or the Earth.

    am I to believe that all of the “building blocks” of life just came together, without any cause or causer, despite the incalcuable odds?

    A common creationist fallacy. The assertion is often made that the odds against DNA forming randomly are so high as to be unbelievable. This has been debunked. I’m sure you’ll find many of your questions dealt with below:

    List of creationist arguments

    Your specific assertion is addressed here:

    The odds of life forming are incredibly small

    You are of course welcome to believe whatever you please. Just don’t call it science, call it what it is, faith.

  56. @ Encarnacion (#80):
    “But what I do know is this: am I to believe that all of the “building blocks” of life just came together, without any cause or causer, despite the incalcuable odds? Now *that’s* what bothers most Christians. Remember that pretty much everything in the Bible is about how God works in human history, not so much the natural world. (though He does a little of that too)”

    I’m not certain why one might take issue with life beginning as a series of reactions in the natural world over a long time. Science doesn’t say that “life began” without causation, so please don’t try to state that as fact.

    When I was in Sunday school as a small child, a teacher tried to “disprove” the Big Bang theory – and, in effect, science! She threw puzzle pieces in a bag, shook them up (talking about adding “gasses”), then showed us (duh) that the puzzle wasn’t assembled, therefore only GOD could put shit together the way it is! She cited mountains (and their hugeness) as another example of why science was wrong. Search me as to why, but I don’t think she knew about Plate Tectonics.

    This beautiful example is why “intelligent design”/creationism “science” teaching is bunk. Someone uses a shitty argument on a child and tells them that this argument is OMG TEH TRUEFS or U BURNZ IN TEH HECKS. Let’s see: 1) kids can’t reason too well (therefore not realizing that there’s no real argument here – just some false assertions), and 2) who wants to BURN IN TEH HECKS? NO 1NZ, STOOPID!

    Listen, I think it’s great if your Christian beliefs help you to be a better person, and to treat others well. I, for one, don’t need those beliefs to be good and do good. I take issue at religion being pushed into the science classroom because it doesn’t belong there.

  57. I have a very religious cousin with 6 adopted children, 4 of which are home-schooled and 2 of which are at a residential christian boarding school. The eldest, a 17 year old girl, spends her time reading the Heidi books and watching Veggie Tales. I worry for these kids. What are they going to do when faced with the real world? I do think this is child abuse, of the worst kind. Believing something, even with your whole heart, does not make it true.

  58. What are they going to do when faced with the real world?

    All they need to remember is “You want fries with that?” and they’ll be fine.

  59. Dear EncarnacionFlor

    Thank you for that. You have provoked a great deal of thought on my part. In regards to your last point.

    The Singularity seems a recognized concept around here. Is it in fact the Second Singularity? Were we the first? I fear the religion meme because “I” want to continue. Those hosting it are natural superficial enemies. Scratch any christian,jew,muslim, sikh etc…. in every instance they would prefer a world entirely composed of their own. Convert or die – figuratively and traditionally literally.

    Boy, these are good mushrooms….

  60. I tried to post this from work, but it didn’t work… it’s probably too late, now.

    Islamic countries, where women are second class citizens, gays are stoned to death, and education is intensely religious, get more sympathy from Democrats than American Christians, who typically obey the laws of the land and generally don’t use violence to get their point across.

    Of course, mocking Christians is a lot safer than mocking Muslims.

  61. A Christian in the hand is more dangerous than two Muslims in the bush. When I have to deal with anti-queer crap from Muslims, I’ll start worrying about it.

  62. Takuan,
    Thank you as well. You have also provoked a lot of thought in me, and caused me to look into things quite well. I appreciate you, and how you have caused this provocation.
    Please don’t paint all Chrisians with such a broad brush. While it is part of our faith to “go and make disciples”, and this we are to do regarless of the hazards it would bring us, we are to never, ever, ever cause harm on those that do not want to be disciples, or anyone, for that matter. Whenever a Christian causes this harm, we *all* suffer from it. (800 years and we scrached the surface so far…) And although my more fundamental bretheren disagree, I don’t want “a world comprised entirely of” my “own”, at least, not until YHWH makes it so. I know that doesn’t really tend to mesh with the whole “disciples” idea, but I have noticed that in amy given community that Christians are the majority, all of them get lazy and “bubbled”, and that’s not at all what Christ wants for His representatives. Thank you again!

  63. To everyone else posting here:
    basing off of Noen’s idea:
    “You are of course welcome to believe whatever you please. Just don’t call it science, call it what it is, faith.”
    and Lautaylo’s:
    “Listen, I think it’s great if your Christian beliefs help you to be a better person, and to treat others well. I, for one, don’t need those beliefs to be good and do good. I take issue at religion being pushed into the science classroom because it doesn’t belong there.”
    I have no issue with that and do call my foundation faith. But that faith must be shown in my behavior, and this does include how I view the origin of all that I see. While I would think it neat if the idea could be taught that the origin(s) of all that we can see weren’t solely random circumstances, you won’t ever see me picketing or writing my congress people for it. But here’s the thing: If I belive that a Soverign, unchanging good God created all that I can see, and gave me as His agent the task of caring for it, I have no other choice but to do so to my most excellent ability. This means that I must care for the environment and it is my duty to be loving and to value all the people I see, regardless of their behavior. And God is good, so to represent Him is being good.

  64. #93

    Why is that necessary for you to be a good human being? A person with no faith and no beliefs at all can do all of the things that a person with faith can do to make the world a better place. In the end, what is the difference? Does it matter? Why does it actually matter if all we see IS the result of random circumstances? Why in the world is that important? This is the still the world we live in and we still must take care of it. Why is the idea of God necessary for people to treat each other with decency, love and respect? God can be taken out of all of these things and the world can be an equally wonderful place. Do people so desperately need intentionality and narrative in their universe that it is acceptable to pay the price of the very, very dark side of religion to get the small benefits that dwindle more and more every day?

    Why is god necessary at all?

    It is not.

    There simply is no reason for us to have this idea now.

    Being a good person should happen without threat of reprisal for not doing so.

    Meaning in life does not need a mystical figurehead as the method of propulsion.

    The beauty of existing without intentionality or meaning embedded into us is that we must make our own, and thus we must be solely responsible for our consequences.

    “In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences.”
    Robert Green Ingersoll

  65. A few replies:

    1) To those that worry about the bad connotations of home schooling: 75% of home schooled children in the US are children of evangelical Christians. (Stat taken from the movie, Jesus Canp.) Sorry that you are doing it for other reasons, but the overwhelming majority of people are the people depicted here.

    2) To the guy who said it was a useless article because all it says is that there are creationist exhibits at a creationist science fair, I disagree on two counts: a) It says that all the exhibits at the HOME SCHOOLED science fair are creationist and have bible quotes and; b) It taught us that there are such things as Homeschool Science fairs.

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