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Bad Questions to Ask a Transsexual + "Stunning": Calpernia Addams.

Xeni Jardin at 1:27 pm Mon, Mar 24, 2008

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Calpernia Addams is the star of the subversive new competitive dating show "Transamerican Love Story" -- following on Mark's post, this seems like an apropos moment to point to her hilarious how-not-to video about rude questions transgendered people are often asked. The video's a little long, but it's full of great material, and highly edumacational. Thumbs up.

When you're done with that -- brace yourself, whore, you're about to get a stunning. (thanks, Andrea James!)

Discuss

175 Responses to “Bad Questions to Ask a Transsexual + "Stunning": Calpernia Addams.”

  1. Dr Benway says:
    March 24, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    @Takuan “you’re a moron”

    Ouch! Maybe I should have included a </sarcasm> tag. My experience has been that the alt community has a sense of humor. I sure did not mean to make light of Ms Addams. But can’t I be snarky in response to such a snarky video?

    @WorLord, condemnation of the “curious” (and learning as well)

    I think the main thing here is to not see someone different as an object of curiosity. That is just plain rude. At the same time, we all get curious about the choices people make regarding their sexuality. Be curious about the person, not the sexuality. Invite them over for dinner. Get to know them, spend time talking about the things we all talk about. Work, sports and the rest. Slowly, the conversation may drift over to the choices we all make, in their variety and complexity. If your curiosity is genuine and sincere, a real conversation may follow. And here I am not being sarcastic.

    Reply
  2. Cayden says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Dear Xeni + the boingboing team:

    Thanks for being awesome allies. I’m always glad to see non-binary gendered folk protrayed positively in the media, mainstream or otherwise. It’s far too rare and to be honest I usually see it here on BB.

    I can’t tell you how tired I am of people who ask me disrespectful questions. I _do_ however go out of my way to answer respectfully framed questions. I’ve become a pretty high-profile trans advocate on my university campus and it’s hard to find people who understand the issues. There are plenty who want to help, so I don’t think it’s constructive for transfolk to shut out everyone with questions, but many of those who want to help don’t have the knowledge and tools to do so.

    I think the whole question-asking maelstrom boils down to respect. How in the heck am I supposed to have respect for you if you don’t have respect for me? This goes for cisgendered people as well. It doesn’t matter how you define gender for yourself, what does matter is treating people who are differently gendered with the same respect you would want yourself treated with. Sure, this policy does leave room for some play — I mean, I’m personally pretty liberal with this policy, and I usually think disrespectful comments are funny rather than enraging — but there’s nothing wrong with assuming the person you’re talking to is more sensitive than yourself.

    I don’t understand why we’re even having this argument? Calpernia’s commentary is sarcastic, silly, but very honest. If you can’t deal with sarcasm on the internet at this point, you should probably turn off your wireless…

    Reply
  3. hedztalez says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    @#117 ABSIMILIARD
    “I was shocked at someone wanting to touch a black person’s hair because they wanted to know if it felt like wool. I thought we were beyond that.

    I wish I would be shocked at the bigotry shown to GLB/TG individuals. But given that this is America I wouldn’t be. I would be horrified, and appalled (note the two “P”s indicating the level of appalled). However I wouldn’t be surprised.”

    How are you shocked in either situation? This is America, but no matter how progressive cities and pockets of well-informed individuals become, there will always be those who just don’t care to find out for themselves or call their assumptions fact and go about their business.

    I don’t want to turn this into a commentary about race issues but it’s the closest parallel I have personal experience with that can be drawn.

    So I’ll just say this: If I can still get questioned about my motives, as a reasonably succesful, college educated black man (and we’re hella common) based on stereotypes or others who look like me. I imagine the smaller GLB/TB community has a ways to wait before they get basic widespread acceptance.

    It shouldn’t be that way. But I, for one, am not surprised that it isn’t.

    Reply
  4. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Also, is it just me, or is there an inordinate number of Irish people on BB recently?

    Sláinte Erisis!

    Reply
  5. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    blessing be to St.Frank, may the Divine rays shine upon his proud nose.

    Reply
  6. pentomino says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Xopher, you may have saved the life of my future self.

    Reply
  7. WorLord says:
    March 26, 2008 at 9:34 am

    @Teresa:

    “If I have time, I may have a few words to say about your later comments.”

    I think you could have saved yourself a bushel of time if you would have read the later comments before you posted. While I appreciate your taking the time to say what you did, someone else (towards the end of the thread) already beat you to the punch and explained things in a way even I could understand. To wit:

    1) When it comes to Manners, the only rule that counts is mob rule.

    I’ve learned other things, too, but they all flow from this one apparently axiomatic and sacrosanct social law. Examples:

    – Manners aren’t subject to logic or reason, and don’t have to be, becasue they are not created or designed to appeal or stand up to ether; they exist to preserve a positive emotional state in other people.

    – On the flipside, it *is* logical and reasonable for me to employ manners, and do what other people ask no matter what I thnk about it, becasue the alternative is a good old fashioned social hangin’.

    – All it takes to be branded an ill-mannered $negative_adjectvie is other people announcing it is so; past or present actions or words, either in cyberspace or in real life, seemingly have little to do with it.

    And finally, this last scrap of education that you seem to have taken particular joy in pointing out to me:

    – There is something *dreadfully* wrong with me (and anyone else) who may have lived long enough to express age in double-digits without having either an instinctual or aquired understanding of the above.

    …which is not something I’m disagreeing with. Really. Honestly. I can only express my sorrow for ruffling feathers with my unpopular (= “wrong” + “offensive”, see rule #1) views, and admit that it is entirely likely that I was not well socialized in my youth… or, at *very* least, not nearly as well-socialized as you seem to have been.

    You’re probably thinking that I’m being a smartass or simmering with loathe right now. Reading this over, I don’t blame you; my sentiments don’t seem to be translating as well in writing as I’d hoped. All I can do is *assure* you that I’m being as honest and forthcoming and free-from-snark as I can possibly be under the circumstances. All of this actually *is* something of a revalation to me, and though it does indeed seem that I am ill-mannered (thus “wrong,” see #1), I think I can take what I’ve learned above and at least get to a point where I can maybe work on my artiface and get to a point where – like everyone else here – I can at least simulate being awesome if I can’t actually *be* awesome.

    Lesson learned, point taken, horse beaten. I have felt the wrath of posters and now moderators and see the error of my ways.

    On the other hand, I do disagree with you on one thing:

    “If you’re holding out for that special someone who’ll always love you just the way you are, you can kiss the fantasy goodbye. That person was your mom, and your age was still in single digits. No one else is going to do that for you.”

    This is flatly incorrect, and I can prove it: even *I* have friends, and a *wife* of many years. They aren’t many, but they are all quality folk who are similarly good-natured (not that you’d believe it) and (apparently) as ill-mannered as I am, and who demonstrate on a daily basis that they are the sort of folk who DO love me just the way I am – even into my thirties.

    So maybe instead of spending time instructing me to abandon that “fantasy,” you should invest in attempting to find it yourself.

    Reply
  8. WorLord says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    @ARKIZZLE: “it was that on a message board, you only have your comments. We are not privvy to the machinations of your thoughts, or indeed, how you act in day-to-day life.”

    That’s what *I’m* screaming.

    “We can only respond to what you type.”

    Were that this were truly the case. From my perspective, it does not appear to be the case.

    Reply
  9. foobar says:
    March 24, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    This just reinforces my perception that transgenderism isn’t about the private life of the person in question, but rather about putting everyone else into predefined boxes.

    Don’t tell me what being a man/woman or straight/gay should mean to me.

    Reply
  10. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 9:43 am

    http://www.nvo.com/psych_help/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/

    Reply
  11. meadhbh says:
    March 25, 2008 at 7:03 am

    Yea! Finally a post I can talk authoratatively!

    Just a few notes from the conversation here…

    1. Gender Identity != Sexual Orientation. I’m really hoping that Dr. Benway is joking… Look, being trans does not make you gay. Trust me. I tried. I really wanted to be gay. It’s just that… well… I’m just not gay. And about sexual orientation, I know several transmen and transwomen. Some are attracted to members of their own gender, some are not. And there are enough in either camp to support the assertion that orientation seems to be independent of identity.

    2. We walk amongst you undetected. When you see George Galloway in a leotard next to Pete Burns you say, “eek! he makes an ugly broad!” (Galloway, that is) And then you congratulate yourself on being able to spot the non-genetically-female. In the real world, it’s not as simple. Some transfolk are not especially interested in “passing,” some find it hard to pass without surgery and others pass _very_ well. Here’s the interesting thing… people who pass very well… they tend not to point out that they’re transsexuals. In part because people start doing crazy stuff like asking them annoying questions or wanting to beat them up. But the point here is that when you see a transsexual who doesn’t pass, you start to think that you can spot them all. When you see a transsexual that does pass, you don’t think to yourself, “oh… that person over there may be a transsexual, I’ll have to reassess my ability to detect such persons.” In short, there are a lot of transfolk who pass, and pass quite well.

    3. I used to go to gay bars to get a drink someplace where I wouldn’t get beat up. An interesting thing about gay bars, there are often non-gay people there. And that’s okay. Well.. it would be okay with me if I owned a gay bar. ’cause the way I looked at it, a gay bar isn’t a place exclusively for gay people, it’s a place where you don’t have to be rigidly hetero-normative to get a drink and not get beaten up. So just ’cause a transperson goes to a gay bar does not mean that they’re gay. But some are. My point is, going to a gay bar does not imply that one is “gay”.

    Reply
  12. Sophia Girl says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Porori wrote: “As a parent, what would be a good way of letting your child know that you`d be accepting of their transsexualism?
    If my son (who we`ve been told due to medical issues has a much higher than average chance of really being a daughter) doesn`t identify with his genetic gender… I don`t want him to feel that I wouldn`t be supportive.”

    I really wish I had some good answers to give you. Unfortunately I don’t. (But if I come up with something I’ll let you know.)

    Nonetheles — I have some comments about your question — especially to highlight how they are *different* from the ones that Ms. Addams addresses in her video (and why you should *not* feel bad about asking your question).

    For one thing — you are not asking your question to someone that you randomly meet on the street. You are bringing up on a forum where the subject of transsexuality is already up.

    Second – you’re not asking anyone anything personal about her intimate life – nor are you asking her to bring up the more vulnerable parts of her life.

    Last but not least — your question isn’t one of idle curiosity. Rather, it is a question who’s answer you have a sincere need-to-know. Basically, your question is analogous to going onto an ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) forum and saying: “I suspect my child may have ADD. How should I approach this?”

    I really wish I had an answer to your question — because not only it isn’t a bad question. It is actually a *good* question. If I ever have an answer, I’ll let you know.

    Reply
  13. WorLord says:
    March 24, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    “@Dr. Benway: The problem here isn’t curiosity. Nobody saying you aren’t allowed to be curious. The problem here is entitlement. Transgendered people, just for making a very personal life choice, are not obligated to educate you or satiate your curiosity. You are not entitled to personal information about them.”

    I agree, in theory. In practice is where I think this falls completely apart. I don’t think I’m amiss in saying that you, too, have an unreasonable sense of entitlement.

    Transgendered people have indeed made a life choice, and usually for _personal reasons_. That, we agree on. But I balk at alling it a very _personal life choice_. It isn’t personal; in fact, what is arguably the largest part of it is very _public_: one now goes out into the world, to interact with the public, as a member of the opposite gender. Like the analogy involving the prominent and enigmatic tattoo on the forehead (which may _also_ have been done for personal reasons), the choice itself ceases being “very personal” when it is visible, through or on top of clothing, from across the street.

    Look, I’m down with anyone changing his/her gender (or getting a piercing, or new breasts, or [insert_mod_here]) in order to further his/her sense of self, or belonging, or identity or happiness, or even (and especially) for the heck of it. I won’t treat anyone differently for that, and I certainly won’t treat anyone who does any of those things negatively. I am vocal in my condemnation of anyone who would treat someone as less because they saw fit to modify themselves.

    But I do think it needs to be said that a person who does something like this doesn’t automagically have the right to expect the rest of the human race to suppress what is a near-instinctual reaction. You don’t get to re-write the basic rules of human nature. It is madness to expect people to be blase about something that is, for most of them, a very visible and radical alteration. It is _going_ to raise eyebrows and inquiries. It is _going_ to grab comments from, as a poster said, “drunken frat boys”.

    And just because its not a reaction you, personally, welcome, doesn’t give you the right to deem an expected and natural reaction as “rude” or “lacking in tact”. (Excempting, of course, edge cases like frat boys.)

    Not everyone is a TG; not everyone knows one, and not many people are going to spontaneously “look it up;” and honestly, I’m not sure putting the onus on everyone else is the correct path towards harmony and acceptance.

    (The poster Antinous especially embodies this sense of entitlement. My only response is with reactions like that, its small wonder that people shy away or become “rude”. Your post was also beside the point, because google and wikipedia are great with handling “what” and “how,” but not so much with handling “why”.)

    Reply
  14. Jeff says:
    March 26, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Worlord, as you stated, the medium does not always make for the best communication. I think what you just said was well done and helped out quite a bit. When in Rome…

    Reply
  15. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Worlord: Scream away, but you must see it both ways.

    We can only know the things, about you, which you type, so either let it be known your statements are not necessarily what you believe, or be responded to accordingly.

    I could say some vastly inappropriate shit in mock-defense of some wacky theory or other, and hope everybody here knows I’m really a sane guy, who wouldn’t worry a fly. But if I don’t qualify the remark I will be responded to as if I meant what I said.

    Either qualify your statements, or understand that people will only respond to your typed words, not the possibility of you being the opposite of what you project.

    But to be clear, I’m not involved in the discussion you have been having with the other folks onboard, I joined at comment #146 and am only commenting on the notions of clarity.

    Reply
  16. Antinous says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    The bad: This thread has brought out several men who are destined to die bitter and lonely because they have no character or personality.

    The good: This thread has brought out a whole bunch of GLBT folks who are usually pretty quiet on BB. Although the BBers are very queer friendly, the threads aren’t necessarily so. They’re not usually hostile, but sometimes it seems like we don’t exist. It’s good to have some company.

    MikeSum32 – I know that you did your detective work. You followed the link to my blog and figured out my business website from there, so now you know that my real name is John. The fact that you’re using it here makes it seem as if you are trying to threaten me. I only use the moniker because my name is too common to be a useful identifier. If you don’t want to be tagged as a stalker, back off.

    Reply
  17. jjasper says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:20 am

    @ 98 Your third paragraph is more a reflection of how the non-TG crowd in this conversation have been treated.

    Oh, woe, woe is you! Here, let me staple your hand to your forehead for all your suffering

    BTW, I’m not transgendered.

    I agree with you in one thing: having privilege (or more privilege than some) doesn’t grant one the right to be a jackass; but you know what, neither does having a hard life that leads to making unconventional decisions. Perhaps if everyone stopped treating behavior they don’t immediately understand as some kind of offensive salvo, life would be better for everyone.

    Do you also ask black people why they’re so angry? Because this is the same sort of ‘tude I see from people asking that question.

    OK. You’ve had enough of a free education. If you’re going to walk through life with a privileged chip on your privileged shoulder, go ahead. Be a modern day Archie Bunker.

    Reply
  18. Elorin says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    @Worlord – I don’t think that arbitrary and reason are necessarily at cross purposes. Manners are arbitrary, yes. But if you take an underlying premise for manners (such as, the point of manners is to make people comfortable) you can then use your reason to figure out what “good manners” is when you see someone uncomfortable. It certainly is arbitrary what makes one person vs. another uncomfortable, and emotions and feelings aren’t often based solely on reason, but that doesn’t mean good manners isn’t unreasonable. :)

    I’ve often had a problem with cultural biases that have no basis in logic. Or, for that matter, biases that were once important but are now outdated but still kept around.

    But please do understand, not all trans people are angry, and certainly not all the time. Some of them are exhausted of being asked questions all the time (just because ~you~ aren’t asking them all the time doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen), frustrated by how insensitive some people can be, and might have a mini-rant to get out some of that energy. Or might have a crappy day and a question that usually elicits a ~sigh~ instead elicits an angry rant about insensitivity.

    Every trans person I’ve known has had frustrating days and encounters. But they’ve generally only gotten ~angry~ at the kinds of things that make most of us angry: being denied rights, discrimination, an unexplained dent in the car in the parking lot…

    Unfortunately, what gets publicized is anger and expressions of anger. You don’t read a lot of articles that say “a transman today had a great day today” because that’s not NEWS.

    Reply
  19. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    “My experience has been that the alt community has a sense of humor.”

    Understood. Please also understand that this is a public place.

    Look at my track record for publicly stamping on the face of organized religions. Do you imagine for a moment me cornering a pious Italian great-grandmother and lecturing her on the crimes of the priesthood? I may be a monster, but I strive to be a monster with some manners.

    Words have power. Words kill. Words give life.

    Reply
  20. absimiliard says:
    March 25, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    Hey Hedztalez,

    I probably shouldn’t be shocked at either, you’re right about that. Guess I just run in a crowd progressive enough that it makes me sub-consciously forget how bad most of the nation is.

    When I do that I should probably spend more time thinking about my brother. Though becoming born-again didn’t make him a racist it sure did make him a homo-phobe. And Gods know there’s plenty of racists out there as well, maybe even more, though I don’t know any statistics.

    Shocked or not, I AM disappointed.

    Wouldn’t trade my country for the world, literally since I’m an isolationist, but I do find myself ashamed of it on many occasions. Mostly because I feel we should be so much more than we are.

    Oh well.

    -abs

    Reply
  21. subtle_turtle says:
    March 24, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    I imagine that the stupid questions would be less annoying then the constant behind your back judging that a transsexual endures, particularly those that are not “passing.” I was involved in a surgery (rhinoplasty) for a young woman who was just beginning the process of transitioning, and I was amazed how unprofessional even her doctors and nurses could be. It seems like it must be a difficult road to walk, and to do it must take a phenomenal amount of strength of will!

    Reply
  22. jjasper says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:25 am

    @ #90, Elorin ,

    It’s hard to tell who’s asking what for what reason. Sorry if I came off as too harsh.

    @ #93, Xopher,

    Oh, I have problems with “go with self identification” in some cases, but as a rule of thumb, it’ll almost always be polite. Later, in private conversation, I may well call them crazy, or deluded.

    As long as someone has not proven that they deserve a verbal smacking around, I try to be polite as a default.

    Reply
  23. Chocolatey Shatner says:
    March 26, 2008 at 10:03 am

    @#1

    I had a similar question about Xeni: for a time I wondered if she might be an elf… possibly from outer space. I mean, I’m gay and all, but Xeni has to be one of the most compelling people (mentally and physically) that I have ever come across. That says space-elf to me.

    Reply
  24. pentomino says:
    March 24, 2008 at 6:45 pm

    Well, I admit that most of those questions are rude. I suppose if you were answering them for the first time, the right thing to do would be to be more polite, and explain to whoever was asking that the question does make you uncomfortable and try to move the conversation elsewhere, especially away from that person.

    I have albinism, which is another highly visible but uncommon human trait, and get asked about it maybe two or three times a year. I dno’t mind answering questions most of the time; the most uncomfortable part of it is that I often have to explain the handicap that comes with it, which is less visible. Some people, on the other hand, are so hugely bothered by it that they’ve printed up “encounter cards” that they hand to people as a way of saying “read the FAQ”.

    These cards never contain the word “dumbass”.

    I know one TG through a friend on a social networking website (never met). He’s FTM and gets laid more often than me. And I knew him before he came out as TG, and was just passing as lesbian. When he did come out, he got a new profile for that identity. He pointed out that, after the math worked out, he was just a straight guy, so I took his word for it. And if I ever talk to him about TG issues, which is super-rare, I make it very clear that I’m talking about my own perspective as a non-TG straight guy trying to make sense of the world. I think the one question I asked him is whether he was generitcally XX or XY. The answer: XX. And it’s these kinds of questions, and answers, that make it possible for someone like me to challenge my motion of what defines a gender.

    But here’s why I’m really contributing to this thread: I can name three men who wrote video games in the 1980’s and then became women, in that order. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence, but it does seem kind of too much to be a coincidence. It’s not like I can name three albinos classic video game programmers, or three transgender physicists.

    I watched Jamie Fenton, the creator of Gorf, speak at Classic Gaming Expo ’98. She and her voice were both six feet tall, so I had to make the conscious choice not to jump to conclusions. But then she showed some old film footage of her old self demonstrating Gorf 2, and the cat was out of the bag. She jokingly referred to him as “her brother”, and I think the audience laughed and was then free to concentrate on the gameplay footage. In the time since, I learned that the landmark Atari 800 game MULE was written by Dan Bunten, who then became Dani Bunten, and Will Wright dedicated The Sims to her memory. And when I looked up Shamus, one of my mother’s favorite games, I found out that the author, William Mataga, became Cathryn Mataga, and she and Fenton have both continued to work in the video game and related industries.

    Reply
  25. Crunchbird says:
    March 24, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Worlord, what exactly are you going at such length about? No one said, either in the video or the comments, that it was inappropriate to be curious, or to engage a transgender person in a respectful conversation about their transition if your personal relationship or the context allowed it. What’s being said is that it’s inappropriate (and yes, rude) to ask certain questions, and attempts have been made to clarify why those questions are particularly troublesome.

    You seem to think that “personal” and “private” and “completely concealed from public view” are all synonyms, when they’re clearly not. Just because something is visible doesn’t mean that it’s completely available for public discussion. You bring up analogies like piercings and tattoos, but those are also inappropriate because they’re purely ornamental … this would be a lot more analagous to starting a conversation with a woman you don’t know very well about the size of her breasts and how much pubic hair she has. And if you can think of any other context in which it’s appropriate to ask a casual acquaintance about major surgery you assume they’ve had on their genitals, I’d really like to know what it is.

    It’s equally ridiculous to claim that behavior can’t be rude if it’s not intentionally so … rudeness is determined by the reaction and the context, not simply the intent of the original actor. Between close friends, casual obscenity, off-color jokes, and even physical violence might be completely accepted and seen as playful and affectionate, but the same people wouldn’t behave that way towards their grandparents, or people they’ve just met. As another example, there are lots of gestures that are innocuous in one culture but extremely offensive in another. When you accidentally gesture “fuck you” instead of “okay,” people’s first reaction will be to get offended no matter what you meant.

    Ideally, they’ll educate you gently about your mistake rather than react with hostility … kind of like what this video is attempting to do.

    Reply
  26. pentomino says:
    March 24, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    P.S. I understand that TG’s probably get questions way more than albinos do, hence the “attitude” getting turned up. I probably didn’t make the point clearly enough that outsiders, even those who attempt to consider the “FAQ problem”, can’t fathom its magnitude. Not even me, and not even after having being asked repeatedly about my pubic hair.

    Reply
  27. hedztalez says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:37 am

    @100.

    We’re always angry because we deal with the same kinds of questions on a daily basis. My usual response is patience, even if I want to smack someone for touching my hair because “They just wanted to see if it really felt like wool.” or “I’ve never touched a black person’s hair before.”

    I know that my experience is different than that of TG individuals, but I can say that because of some similarities, I can at least imagine where they are coming from.

    Alot of people assume that curiosity gives them the right to be presumptuous. It doesn’t. If people wish to go around assuming that it does, don’t be surprised when you catch a person on a bad day and receive a dressing down, or worse a severe beating for being disrespectful.

    Big ups to Calpernia. You’re doing great things girl.

    Reply
  28. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:01 pm

    The poster Antinous especially embodies this sense of entitlement. My only response is with reactions like that, its small wonder that people shy away or become rude.

    Worlord,

    How big is your dick? Are you cut or uncut? How big are your nuts? Can you post a link to pictures of your genitalia? My natural curiosity is piqued. Since you’ve made it perfectly clear that rude curiosity must be indulged, we’re all waiting for the details.

    Reply
  29. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    no,no…really… I do NOT need to know….

    Reply
  30. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Tak-kun,

    Given last night’s comments, we should all be asking YOU those questions. Would you like to address your queue?

    The theme of so many of these posts is, “If I have decided that you are a freak, it’s my god given right to disregard all social conventions and cause you misery in order to satisfy my idle fanboy curiosity.” I also bet that the guys who ask to see the new girl-parts aren’t nearly so eager to ask gay men for details on how sodomy works. Selective ‘natural’ curiosity.

    Reply
  31. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:41 am

    JJasper 101: Not only polite, but in some cases an important safety tip! I agree with you there. The man says he’s straight, he’s straight, at least operationally: he’s either straight, closeted, or confused. In any case he should be treated as straight. Sometimes that includes saying no to a seduction attempt on his part: “No, I don’t do straight guys. You’ll be all weird in the morning and shit. And I don’t like having to keep secrets.”

    Reply
  32. Xopher says:
    March 26, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Hmm, I think that by “just the way you are,” Teresa meant “behaving exactly as you feel like behaving at all moments without regard for manners or social conventions,” because we all hide parts of ourselves and behave in ways that are not exactly what we feel like doing from moment to moment. I don’t quite agree, because our inhibitions and manners and so forth are part of “the way we are” too.

    In short, I think she meant that our mothers are the only ones who love us no matter how we behave. All other love is conditional.

    I’m virtually certain Teresa did NOT mean that you are so totally unlovable that you could never find a life partner or have any friends. That’s too easy to refute, for one thing. But the “no matter how you behave” thing? Uh-uh. I’m sure you can think of behaviors that would make your wife stop loving you, and certainly behaviors that would make her leave you (even if the love is still there). Perhaps you’re entirely disinclined to do any of them. Most people have to restrain themselves on occasion, even with people they love more than they can ever express.

    Reply
  33. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Hedstalez, it’s not clear to me from your post that you realize JJasper was using “ask black people why they’re so angry” as an example of a blatantly obviously inappropriate question, and drawing a comparison to the kind of questions under discussion here. I think you probably do, but I want to be sure.

    Reply
  34. Xopher says:
    March 26, 2008 at 10:23 am

    And by the way, I would like to say that I can only dream of having the kind of life-partnership Teresa shares with her husband.

    Reply
  35. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    what? Moi???

    What does a little black textiles and cordage have to do with anything? Migods, think of what if Parliament had to respond to such!!

    Bottom line: people who think they are in a position of superior power think they have the right to ask any question.

    The only exception is children.

    So. If you find you have asked someone a question of trespass; ask yourself: are you acting as a child? or a slave – holder?

    And remember what happens to Ole Massa come the War.

    Reply
  36. Elorin says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:45 am

    @Porori #55

    You asked “As a parent, what would be a good way of letting your child know that you`d be accepting of their transsexualism?”

    Raise your child not to be judgemental of other people. Explain to your child that bigots are wrong. Let tolerance, love, and acceptance overflow in all areas of your life. Tell your child that you want him/her to be happy and live in a way that shows you mean it.

    Expose your child to transsexualism. If you have trans friends, treat them as normal people and let them be around your child. If you don’t have trans friends, let your child see imagery of transgendered individuals, crossdressers, etc. and explain gently in age appropriate words that these people are ok.

    My daughter, at 8, is very comfortable with crossdressers because I refused to tell my friends “you can’t hang out with me when my child is here”. I explained gently to her that when my friend T*** was in women’s clothing, to address her as N***. When she asked why, I said that N*** likes to wear women’s clothes.

    I’ve handled other delicate subjects in the same manner (nudity, kink/bondage) by being frank, honest, and age appropriate. I am confident that my daughter will grow up to be accepting of alternate sexuality / gender identity because I raised her in a way that showed her it is an OK way to be.

    I’m sure that you will do just great with your own little one.

    Reply
  37. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    I don’t believe I really said either of the things you have made points of, above.
    But I don’t think it’s silly to think people act as they believe, except in limited circumstances, like politeness, or law.
    Maybe you would care to give an example of something you truly believe, but don’t act upon.

    And of course you have to make a distinction between your abstract ideas and your beliefs, it clarifies whether you think your points are rational, or merely lofty notions, and therefore the kind of attention one should pay your comments.

    Reply
  38. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Rats. Hedztalez. My apologies.

    Reply
  39. Xeni Jardin says:
    March 24, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    @xxxxxx — I am not, but it’s kind of pathetic that people still consider that to be an insult, and ask the question with the intent of somehow offending or causing harm. So, yeah, I’m not, but fuck those guys for hating on transgendered people in the first place.

    Reply
  40. jennfrank says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    @1 – By virtue of your comment’s location in the lineup, and the earnestness and utter lack of malice in your question, my eyes fell on your comment first; I’ve been thinking about it for twenty minutes, lividly. Xeni’s reply is succinct and great, but this is something worth talking about further.

    Let’s do some quick Gender Studies 101: It is so difficult for a woman, no matter how feminine, to flourish in a male-norm environment, in an occupation that is, for want of an easier word, patriarchal. From politics to stand-up comedy to writing, women basically need to ‘wear pants’, or otherwise conceal their sex, simply to be taken at face value. And to be genuinely funny, for instance, you have to play by certain male norms (for this reason, maybe, ‘chick flicks’ aren’t really all that funny, because there’s no male normative humor there). Some women are able to straddle male norm humor while continuing to play up their own femininity (Sarah Silverman; Amy Sedaris), but a lot of funny ladies ‘ring butch,’ if you will. They shouldn’t, of course — they’re just doing a job well.

    For women and men both, it’s intimidating to see a woman who does her ‘male’ job justice. So people scramble to defuse the dissonance. In my tiny borough of the internet, people have called me a man outright. For a long time, a former coworker repeatedly insinuated that I am a lesbian (another great line was, “Play dumb; see how it works for you”). When women are so smart, so proficient that they color themselves as ‘bitchy’ or as ‘castrating’ — and here, the metaphor is made manifest, because some men find themselves, if a woman is too witty or too literate, ‘dickless’ — the one real comeback at a man’s disposal is, invariably, a jab at the offending woman’s own femininity. Calling her out on her sexual preference, or implying she was secretly born with a penis, or otherwise alluding to a woman’s innate masculinity, is the shortest shorthand for saying ‘you don’t intimidate me; you’re just a dude anyway.’ Which itself is loaded with bigger issues like ‘if you were really female, you’d work harder at feminizing yourself and making me feel a little more comfortable and manly, here.’

    Above, someone remarked that all trans issues are touched by feminism issues, and I really hold that to be true. How does my little rant — apart from being something I myself am sore about, mostly thanks to the internet being what it is — figure into Ms. Addams’ video? A lot of the questions cataloged among her What Not to Ask have everything to do with people belittling her by suggesting that she is, for all her efforts and her talents, still a man. Yes, this is how men belittle women. Hell, it’s how women belittle women (“she wouldn’t be so pretty without all that makeup” comes to mind).

    And seeing as sex, sexuality, and gender are all sliding markers on a continuum, what Xeni originally typed holds true: Fuck anyone who thinks they’re making an insult.

    Reply
  41. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:
    March 26, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Chocolatey Shatner, Xeni’s certainly got the whatever-it-is.

    WorLord, if you have a wife and friends, then you must have manners undreamt-of in all your philosophies.

    Reply
  42. se7a7n7 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    1 more question, why do transsexuals who make informative web videos take 2:30 minutes to get to the point?

    and re: XXXXXX…
    no matter what, Xeni is hot! Let’s try not to forget all the lessons we just learned.

    Reply
  43. Antinous says:
    March 26, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    I can’t believe that you’ve been paying his comments any attention. If you want to feed something, get a goldfish.

    Reply
  44. Robert says:
    March 24, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Oh boy, so the over-the-top you’re-a-moron voice just riled up the rules lawyer (RL) in me.

    Q: Don’t be offended, but…
    A: It’s offensive! I’m not interested in educating you!
    RL: Well, you’re a transsexual. We don’t see a lot of you. What did you expect, no curiosity at all?

    Q: Did it hurt?
    A: “An-es-thesia”, dumb-dumb!
    RL: “Un-in-ten-ded in-tra-op-er-a-tive a-ware-ness”.

    Q: What was your “real” name?
    A: Calpernia, dumbass!
    RL: I know a few transsexuals, and their names mostly come from feminizations or masculinizations of their previous legal names. WTF does “Calpernia” come from? It’s not exactly a common name, so I’d really like to know. Dumbass.

    I guess I could go on. Hey Calpernia… you’re not common! We have questions! Get used to it!

    Reply
  45. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    someone remarked that all trans issues are touched by feminism issues

    Hell yeah!

    Reply
  46. rani79 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Jennfrank

    Thank you

    Reply
  47. hedztalez says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:52 am

    @104 Xopher, I definitely got it. Just used a bit of intentional density on my part to segway into the point I wanted to make.

    Reply
  48. Xeni Jardin says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    @jennfrank, a-to-the-motherfucking-men.

    Reply
  49. absimiliard says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Hedztalez@102:

    ” even if I want to smack someone for touching my hair because “They just wanted to see if it really felt like wool.” or “I’ve never touched a black person’s hair before.”

    Seriously? Someone’s asked you this? OMG.

    Dude (used in the un-sexed sense) I’d smack someone who asked me that and I’m a white guy. You don’t get more undeservedly priviledged than that.

    That’s totally a violation of personal space that says at least as much about the questioner’s lack of manners as it does about their bigotry. (Specifically, it says “I’m a rude bigot” in ALL CAPS SHOUTING.)

    The only exception might be if it was a small child, in which case exceptions should be granted along with explanations of why what they just said was rude. (well, possibly an attractive member of the sex you are attracted to might get a pass too, but only if you thought it was just a lame come-on line and not a real instance of bigotry)

    I’m still shocked anyone would ask that. Ye gods. What Gaul. (because Parisi are reputed to be rude and uncouth, or so Caesar tells me in his commentaries.)

    -abs

    Reply
  50. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    i know dude, I’m a sucker for defending myself in stupid arguments.. meh.

    Reply
  51. Caroline says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Robert, there’s such a thing as realizing that trans people are people, not exhibits for your education.

    Reply
  52. Takuan says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:58 am

    hah! Knew a woman once who told me of the time she socialized with some WASPS at a function and was asked as a nervous conversation filler: “And how long have you been black?”

    Reply
  53. Sophia Girl says:
    March 25, 2008 at 11:58 am

    It just occurred to me to say — I wish I could get from somewhere an MP3 file of “Stunning” so I can add it to the playlist I listen to all day. :)

    Reply
  54. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:
    March 26, 2008 at 5:32 am

    Hello, WorLord.

    Calpernia Addams and the other commenters in this thread have been trying to explain valuable principles to you. Many people learn these principles around the time they get out of middle school.

    I doubt this is the first time in your life that the subject has come up. I suspect you’ve hitherto believed that you’ve escaped responsibility for your bad behavior by asking why it’s bad, then insisting that the explanations you’re given don’t make sense to you.

    Here’s your error: you think saying that you don’t understand, or that you disagree, gets you off the hook. It doesn’t. Your failure to understand that point is why people keep saying you have a remarkable sense of entitlement.

    In fact, what you’re doing is singing the national anthem of privilege, entitlement, and adolescence:

    I want to do exactly as I wish
    And be exactly who and what I am,
    And have it get me what I want.

    First great truth: You don’t understand why some piece of behavior is objectionable? That’s too frickin’ bad.

    If everyone tells you that some behavior is rude, and you can’t see the reason for it, tough noogies. It’s still rude. Take their word on it. You can figure out why it works that way on your own time.

    Second great truth: If someone tells you that a behavior hurts their feelings, and because you don’t think it should hurt their feelings you do it anyway, their feelings are still hurt, and it’s your fault.

    By the way: the usual translation of “That shouldn’t hurt your feelings” is “I don’t want to stop doing it.” I’ll assume that’s what it means in your case as well.

    Third great truth: The universe is neither bounded and defined by, nor contingent upon, your understandings. That goes double for you opinions.

    Fourth great truth: If you ignore what people tell you about their feelings and reactions, they’ll think you’re stupid and a jerk. They’ll be right.

    Don’t hand me that line about “let’s face facts,” or the one about people being naturally curious. The pertinent fact here is that some questions are deservedly condemned for being rude. If you want to know more, go to the library and do some research.

    Fifth great truth: You are not a little kid, and we are not impressed by your authentic natural impulses.

    As you said in comment 26:

    So, obviously, the correct course of action here is to brand the inquisitive as somehow backwards or evil, and deny them the ability to seek education from those most qualified to disperse it?

    Yes, that’s it exactly.

    “You’re curious? Tough!” is, in my opinion, completely inappropriate, unrealistic, and discourteous in its own right.

    You’re wrong.

    You have two choices: you can amend your behavior, or you can deliberately choose to be a rude jerk. Your protest that this conflicts with your opinions doesn’t change a thing. You still have the same two choices.

    It assumes that there is some kind of crime being committed by those who’s curiosity is piqued by the sight or presence of the transgendered.

    Nope. Your private curiosity is your own affair. The offense is thinking that you have the right to bother the person you’re curious about, and acting on that belief. You don’t have that right.

    Nobody gives a damn whether your “curiosity is piqued.” Asking rude questions is still rude. Don’t do it.

    Getting angry that other people might show some curiosity towards the appearance of such a highly-visible body modification makes little sense;

    No. “It makes little sense” is not an objective law of the universe. It’s just your personal reaction.

    You have failed to understand why that person has the reaction they do. That failure on your part doesn’t place them, or anyone else, under an obligation to take notice of or make allowance for you. You’re still responsible for behaving politely.

    Imagine someone explaining to you that they didn’t think you’d mind if they leaned over a balcony railing and projectile-vomited on you from above. You wouldn’t say “Oh, that’s okay then.” You’d think they damned well ought to have known better, and you’d be right to think so.

    it would be like a person getting angry about having to explain a prominent but enigmatic forehead tatoo.

    No, it’s not like that. How do we know? Because transsexuals and people with tattoos tell us so.

    Such attitude is, to my eyes, irrational. Certainly, I would think that the only *sane* expectation *would* be curiosity, possibly inquiry, when others are faced with such a visibly distinct body modification.

    If you think you’re the only sane person here, and you say so, why does it surprise you when thereafter no one goes very far out of their way to be nice to you?

    I never once felt a flush of shame (nor do I think there is any reason to feel such) with asking questions of a person who has undergone this sort of transformation.

    Pretty much all the transsexuals in this thread think you should. Do you want to explain why you think it’s all right for you to hurt their feelings just to satisfy your momentary curiosity?

    I once asked frankly about the sex life of a man I’d met earlier in the day who informed me that he always sat to pee (due to having a Prince Albert piercing); was that also rude? I don’t think so. After all, the man brought it up.

    The reason it wasn’t rude was that the man brought it up first, and that degree of latitude applies only to him. It doesn’t give you permission to ask equally personal questions of everyone else you meet.

    While I understand that it can be annoying and possibly painful to have to field some questions repeatedly, I have to protest the branding of those bearing questions as somehow “rude” or lacking in “tact”.

    Protest away; everybody needs a hobby. Just don’t expect to get anywhere with it, because what you’ve described there is pretty much the definition of “rude and tactless.”

    You say you know that transsexuals find it annoying and painful to be constantly plagued with stupid insensitive over-personal questions. The obvious conclusion is, “Therefore, I ought not do it to them.”

    And yet, this conclusion doesn’t occur to you. Let me drop all this excessive tact I’ve been using and get down to the real question: What kind of jerk are you, that you think you have the right to hurt their feelings for no better reason than to satisfy your idle and light-minded curiosity?

    Common curiosity is not a fault;

    First: I dispute “common.” We’re talking about your curiosity, not the general public’s.

    Second: curiosity is not a behavior. It’s a motive. How you express it as behavior is where the fault (or lack of same) comes in.

    If you want to know more about the permutations of sex, gender, and physical morphology, do some research. Go to a library, or type queries into Google. There’s a great deal of information out there, and no one will be the least bit bothered if you read it.

    keeping everyone in the dark about it is considerably more problematic.

    And the bogosity meter goes off the scale!

    What you’re talking about there is personal privacy. They have the same right to it as anyone else. I suspect you’re also saying that their existence makes you uncomfortable. If so, get over it.

    Here are the rules:

    * If there’s someone in your immediate vicinity whom you think may be transgendered, or whose gender is completely inscrutable to you, stop and think about how you’d interact with the same person if you’d never questioned their gender. That’s how you should behave, only more politely. (The “more politely” is because it’s you, not because they’re transgendered.)

    * If you can tell which gender a person has sworn allegiance to, address them and treat them as a person of that gender.

    * If you absolutely cannot figure out which gender they favor (there are people like that), avoid using pronouns for as long as you can. When pronouns become unavoidable, or the avoidance of pronouns becomes too cumbersome for comfort, say “Which pronoun do you prefer?” They’ll know what you mean.

    * Thereafter, use their preferred pronoun. Don’t argue, and don’t use it as an excuse to ask prying questions.

    * Someone else’s preferences in sexual partners is only your business if you’re asking them for a date.

    * Someone else’s fertility is only your business if you’re an x-ray technician or you’re thinking of asking them to marry you.

    * The conformation of someone else’s genitals is only your business if you’re asking for instructions.

    That’s all for now. If I have time, I may have a few words to say about your later comments.

    Reply
  55. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    nothing to be done for it but time. Patience and strength to those who have to put up with it.

    Reply
  56. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    not everyone fits our available handles. At what point does the “autism spectrum” commence, assuming there is a “normal” to depart from? For instance.

    Reply
  57. Porori says:
    March 24, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    There is only one big question I`d like to ask a transsexual… And thankfully it wasn`t on the list. Though I still can`t imagine asking it randomly the first time I met someone.

    Since there seem to be some people in the know here who might be inclined to answer, I`ll toss it up. It applies rather privately to my life, so be nice.

    As a parent, what would be a good way of letting your child know that you`d be accepting of their transsexualism?
    If my son (who we`ve been told due to medical issues has a much higher than average chance of really being a daughter) doesn`t identify with his genetic gender… I don`t want him to feel that I wouldn`t be supportive. On the other hand, I don`t really want to go around saying “If you`re a girl, it`s ok!”

    The first thought that comes to mind when I`m told that someone is transsexual is that it must have been pretty awful to be stuck in a body that didn`t reflect their true gender. I am pretty sure that I was aware of my gender from quite a young age, and I imagine it`s no different even when gender isn`t the same as genetics… I would like to minimize the pain/frustrations if that is the case with my son. I never gave it much thought as I`m genetically female to begin with, but I have to wonder how early a child knows it`s gender.

    Just random rambling, but if anyone wants to give some advice, I`d be thankful.

    Reply
  58. Antinous says:
    March 26, 2008 at 7:51 pm

    In later years, when she went out for a walk in Manhattan, Jackie Onassis was regularly accosted by strangers who would come up and gush at her. Reportedly, she greeted them with a brilliant smile. But not one word.

    Reply
  59. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    It’s easy to see why Ms. Addams has to backhand people occasionally. The Bad Questions video is well worth the 16:37.

    And Robert, transpose your idiocy to another paradigm: “Wow, I’ve never met a negro before! Do you really have a huge penis?” It doesn’t sound so good like that, does it?

    Reply
  60. strathmeyer says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    I agree with Robert. Last time I stopped a black man and asked him what is was like to be a lazy criminal who loved certain foods and he got all upset and I still didn’t understand what the big deal is.

    Reply
  61. absimiliard says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    LOLing at Takuan’s stor in #109.

    -abs

    Reply
  62. Michael says:
    March 25, 2008 at 8:29 am

    I find it odd how many people seem to be taking Calpernia’s video personally. I took it as hilarious anger-catharsis, and although I am also very curious about these questions, I knew that she wasn’t calling me a dumbass, because I didn’t ask her said questions. If, by some weird chance, I were to meet Calpernia out of the blue, and out of some further weird chance I were to discover that she was transgendered, then I can only imagine that these questions would still not be the first things I’d consider germane conversation. Let’s face it — if that’s your first reaction to Calpernia, you are a dumbass.

    Mikesum1, to take a disemvowelled example from this thread, appears to be a little confused on whether he himself is being addressed as a dumbass. To which I can only think, if Mikesum1 considers that shoe to fit, perhaps it’s because he is a dumbass. I just can’t put it any plainer than that.

    This video rules. It’s the condescending tone that makes it rule, and anybody getting a little hot under the collar — I submit — is only reacting to the somewhat scary topic of transgendering, and to the even scarier specter of somebody getting good and righteously pissed in public. Cowards.

    Xopher, I wasn’t aware that “Xopher” could be pronounced. …. How do you pronounce it? “Gzofer”? “Zofer”? “Eksofer”?

    Reply
  63. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    very early.watch, be patient, assume nothing, be easy.

    Reply
  64. rani79 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    @Porori

    Thanks for your post,

    I’d say love and support your son in all things, and maybe offer some examples of non traditional gender acceptance for him to see. There are some great kids books about non-traditional available through nickname press or look here:

    http://ccb.lis.uiuc.edu/bibliographies/lgbt_oct2004.html

    also your town probably has community resources for LGBTQ families, and they could help.

    Good luck, and your son is lucky to have you!

    Reply
  65. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    that’s because you didn’t begin by calling him “bro”

    Reply
  66. Takuan says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    absolutely true story, swear to Odin.

    Reply
  67. Christopher says:
    March 26, 2008 at 10:50 am

    @115: “I was shocked at someone wanting to touch a black person’s hair because they wanted to know if it felt like wool. I thought we were beyond that.”

    Not even close, though many “typical white people” would be appalled to even insinuate that we’re still a largely racist country. And people are giving Obama grief simply because he pointed it out…

    One day we might all get along and look past skin color, and gender assignment, and sexual orientation. I don’t know how many more lives it’ll be before I see that day, though.

    Reply
  68. Christopher says:
    March 26, 2008 at 10:58 am

    I think I will now always refer to Xeni as the sexy space-elf… Thank you for that, Chocolatey Shatner =D

    Reply
  69. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Porori,

    When I was 18, my mother just said to me one day, “Are you gay or what?” It was awkward for ten minutes, then it was done.

    My cousin, on the other hand, despite never having lived more than ten miles from her parents, is still in the closet to them at 52.

    If there are medical issues, the subject has to come up anyway. Just be age-appropriate honest. If you’re well intentioned, it’s pretty hard to screw it up.

    Reply
  70. agoodsandwich says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    She says some things that need to be said. But really, she could do without the condescension and sarcasm.

    Reply
  71. WorLord says:
    March 25, 2008 at 8:40 am

    @Antinous:

    “Worlord, How big is your dick? Are you cut or uncut? How big are your nuts? Can you post a link to pictures of your genitalia? My natural curiosity is piqued. Since you’ve made it perfectly clear that rude curiosity must be indulged, we’re all waiting for the details.”

    – Btwn 6.5-7″, dpndng n stt f rsl. Frly thck.
    – Ct. ‘m stll nnyd bt tht, bcs f gvn th chc, wldn’t b.
    – Hnstly? Thy’r prtty lrg. t mks byng pnts dffclt, bcs wht fts vrywhr ls strks m s… r, _cnfnd_ n th frt-bskt rgn.
    – …y knw, t dsn’t strk m s bynd th rlm f pssblty tht my gntl r nln. Hwvr, wldn’t knw whr lnk s.

    Is there anything else you’d like to know? Unlike some, I don’t completely shit the bed or create some bogus social standard of “rudeness” when faced with an inquiry. When do I get my “I can inquire” card?

    (As an aside: Your analogy is poor and does not follow logically, considering that my penis is standard issue and not a new arrival. But, I’ve a feeling you knew that, and were just being dense and offputting.)

    Reply
  72. Anonymous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    When I read the story of this woman’s life I was overwhelmed with compassion. How anyone can go through those trials and wind up so lovely, full of life and funny is beyond my capacity to imagine.
    I have the capacity to be one of those thoughtless dumb asses, and I hope I always remember not to be.

    Thanks to everyone who helped to share this.

    Calpernia, you ARE stunning. I’d buy you a steak anyday. Thank you for the insight.

    Reply
  73. ornith says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    @jennfrank, good call on the interplay between trans issues and feminist issues. I’ve had a man call me a lesbian because I turned him down (and probably because I have short hair) – as if no straight woman would reject a scuzzy guy who has nothing better to do than hang around outside the Camden train station hitting on anything with boobs. (Not that I care if someone thinks I’m a lesbian, but I do object to someone thinking they’re entitled to sex just for asking… or to someone thinking I have such low standards!)

    I don’t think that chick flicks are unfunny because they don’t meet some sort of “male normative” humor, though. For one, I laugh at the same stuff as my straight male friends – who admittedly don’t tend to find the git-er-done, dumb-and-dumber style of humor funny either – so I’m not sure there is any such thing. But what makes chick flicks unfunny (especially when they’re supposed to be “romantic comedies”) is nothing but lazy bad writing – they don’t bother to write them well, because the studios will make them, and people will go see them, regardless.

    Admittedly, I hate most chick flicks, and not just because I’d rather watch something with swordfights. I find the conventions of large parts of the genre outright sexist. Women should care more about finding a man than any other facet of their life? A woman HAS to look pretty all the time? Sheer persistance will always win a woman, no matter how much she originally hates you? [sarcasm]Thanks SO much for your contributions to feminism, Julia Roberts and Meg Ryan![/sarcasm]

    Reply
  74. noen says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    I don’t know why you are shocked Absimiliard. Where I come from trans = gay = pedophile. I mean, it’s all very nice to read about the wonderfully open minds of some here but my personal experience of transition (MtF) was one of a total nightmare. Even though I would come out again, the closet is no place to be, doing so completely destroyed my life. Something I don’t think I’ve really recovered from.

    The positive responses here seem to me to come from a fantasy world.

    Reply
  75. rani79 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    Xeni and the Boingboing crew,

    Thank you so much for posting this, you made my day!

    It is a great video, funny and smart.

    trans rights are feminist rights and human rights – and for all the people that don’t get that, please re-watch the video, and pay attention this time

    Reply
  76. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    , she could do without the condescension and sarcasm.”

    if you only knew how patient she was being

    Reply
  77. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    But really, she could do without the condescension and sarcasm.

    Would it not then be a dry etiquette instruction video that nobody wants to watch?

    Reply
  78. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    as Hedwig had it;

    the origin of love

    When the earth was still flat,
    And the clouds made of fire,
    And mountains stretched up to the sky,
    Sometimes higher,
    Folks roamed the earth
    Like big rolling kegs.
    They had two sets of arms.
    They had two sets of legs.
    They had two faces peering
    Out of one giant head
    So they could watch all around them
    As they talked; while they read.
    And they never knew nothing of love.
    It was before the origin of love.

    The origin of love

    And there were three sexes then,
    One that looked like two men
    Glued up back to back,
    Called the children of the sun.
    And similar in shape and girth
    Were the children of the earth.
    They looked like two girls
    Rolled up in one.
    And the children of the moon
    Were like a fork shoved on a spoon.
    They were part sun, part earth
    Part daughter, part son.

    The origin of love

    Now the gods grew quite scared
    Of our strength and defiance
    And Thor said,
    “I’m gonna kill them all
    With my hammer,
    Like I killed the giants.”
    And Zeus said, “No,
    You better let me
    Use my lightening, like scissors,
    Like I cut the legs off the whales
    And dinosaurs into lizards.”
    Then he grabbed up some bolts
    And he let out a laugh,
    Said, “I’ll split them right down the middle.
    Gonna cut them right up in half.”
    And then storm clouds gathered above
    Into great balls of fire

    And then fire shot down
    From the sky in bolts
    Like shining blades
    Of a knife.
    And it ripped
    Right through the flesh
    Of the children of the sun
    And the moon
    And the earth.
    And some Indian god
    Sewed the wound up into a hole,
    Pulled it round to our belly
    To remind us of the price we pay.
    And Osiris and the gods of the Nile
    Gathered up a big storm
    To blow a hurricane,
    To scatter us away,
    In a flood of wind and rain,
    And a sea of tidal waves,
    To wash us all away,
    And if we don’t behave
    They’ll cut us down again
    And we’ll be hopping round on one foot
    And looking through one eye.

    Last time I saw you
    We had just split in two.
    You were looking at me.
    I was looking at you.
    You had a way so familiar,
    But I could not recognize,
    Cause you had blood on your face;
    I had blood in my eyes.
    But I could swear by your expression
    That the pain down in your soul
    Was the same as the one down in mine.
    That’s the pain,
    Cuts a straight line
    Down through the heart;
    We called it love.
    So we wrapped our arms around each other,
    Trying to shove ourselves back together.
    We were making love,
    Making love.
    It was a cold dark evening,
    Such a long time ago,
    When by the mighty hand of Jove,
    It was the sad story
    How we became
    Lonely two-legged creatures,
    It’s the story of
    The origin of love.
    That’s the origin of love.

    Reply
  79. CalperniaAddams says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    WorLord: But I do think it needs to be said that a person who does something like this doesn’t automagically have the right to expect the rest of the human race to suppress what is a near-instinctual reaction.

    The angry part of me that made this video after a decade of responding politely through clenched teeth wants to say that a major point of this video is: The human race can have whatever instinctual reaction it wishes to me, I don’t expect or care either way. Just don’t bug me with it. Nothing anyone can say will convince me that I don’t have the right to feel hurt and annoyed at intrusive questions from strangers, no matter how curious they are.

    The real me, the “whole” me, tries to be nice to everyone, and has spent a long time as an advocate for and educator on trans issues. But this video was a fun venting of steam, to finally be honest about the way people have made me feel.

    I am an actress, and this video features my somewhat deadpan comedic style. I’d hope people would understand that the “condescension and sarcasm” I exhibit in this performance is for comedic effect. I’d never use that style when actually educating or conversing with average people. If you’re curious about the way I really talk and act when I’m speaking as myself, look at my response video to the “Bad Questions” video, below it on the YouTube page.

    Reply
  80. agoodsandwich says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    “Would it not then be a dry etiquette instruction video that nobody wants to watch?”

    Not necessarily. Have you never heard someone being funny while making a point without condescending? I think her point could be made more powerfully if she didn’t keep calling people dumbasses. She seems smart enough to do that. See 6:10 for an example of Calpernia making her point in a funny way, and without talking down.

    Reply
  81. WorLord says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    @Sophia Girl: “Wanting to go about your life without constantly being bombarded with personal, sometimes demeaning questions is *not* an unreasonable sense of entitlement.”

    I think it is, _considering the circumstances_. It is a justifiable sense of entitlement – in a perfect world, I agree one should be able to go through one’s life unquestioned – but I *also* see it as unreasonable because it simply isn’t a realistic expectation to have in these situations. If its not a realistic expectation to have, its not a reasonable expectation to have.

    “Your analogy is way off. Transsexual people made the choice because it was absolutely necessary for the sake of mental health.”

    Telling me that one particular modification is done for a different reason than another does not show that the analogy is “way off”.

    “A more accurate analogy is to look at someone who clearly has the scars of having undergone surgery for a cleft lip.”

    Great! Works for me, let’s go with that.

    “It would be rude to ask them personal questions about that”

    Would it? Why? No one I know _with_ a cleft lip has ever said or implied such, and I’m more inclined to believe them over you.

    “and it is rude to constantly prod a transsexual with personal questions.”

    Fine, except I wasn’t talking about “constantly prodding” anyone over anything.

    “Constantly bombarding people with very-personal questions *is* treating them as less.”

    Again, the discussion was not about “constantly bombarding” anyone with anything. Having said that: asking someone questions is in no way “treating them as less,” and I cannot possibly imagine the roads you took to arrive at that conclusion. People ask questions because they are *interested*.

    Punching someone in the face is treating a person as “less,” and should you rail against that, I’ll be right there with you.

    “If you every go around asking genetic-women personal questions about their genitals”

    Again, this particular line of thought simply *does not work* – not metaphorically, not realistically, not in any way at all. Schools teach about genetic-women’s genitals in biology. Those aren’t an anomaly; those aren’t uncommon; there isn’t much of a way to avoid getting this knowledge, unless you drop out of school, and even then. It simply *isn’t the same situation* as someone who has a brand new set of surgically created genitals (something educational facilities usually do not generally teach *anything* about.)

    “After all — that’s what manners are all about – suppressing what would otherwise be an instinctual reaction because you are aware of the fact that it’s just plain rude.”

    Except that I *don’t* know that its “just plain rude;” in fact, I don’t think it is, and I don’t see that anyone here has shown it to *be* such. Repeating the assertion is not some sort of support *for* that assertion.

    I think what’s going on, is that some people have arbitrarily decided it is rude, despite the unrealistic nature of that decision; and further, I think these people exist in a perpetually annoyed and angry state because the rest of the known world doesn’t just belly up and go along with that arbitrary decision as a somehow “obvious” conclusion. Which is, I think, a bad idea if one wants to foster an environment of understanding and growth.

    Reply
  82. tgjerusalem says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    Roger – uniqueness on our part, does not justify a total lack of tact on your part. We are perfectly aware that most people will be curious about us, but curiosity does not give anyone legitimate license to neglect the rules of basic human decency and good manners.

    Questions about a person’s sex life, their anatomy, medical history, family relations – these are not topics typically considered open for casual conversation. Unless you are a person’s doctor, lover or therapist, you do not ask them the details of their genital structure, or whether their father beat them, or what medications they’re on.

    Unless you are talking to your super-best-friend with whom you already share such intimate details, these are *not appropriate questions to ask.* Just because we’re trans, doesn’t make us exempt from such basic a consideration of polite human interaction. Basically, if I don’t already know what the last STD you got was, you don’t get to ask about my bits.

    You’re curious? Tough. I’m sure many people are curious how someone paralyzed from the waist down has sex, but I certainly hope you would never casually ask a disabled aquaintance for the gritty details of their love lives.

    And of course, when someone asks a trans person “what’s your REAL name”, it’s probably a safe bet they’re not thinking “what is the etymology of Calpernia?” If they were, they would ask something more like “That’s an interesting name – what does it mean?”

    Concerning surgery – this is always an idiotic question. We’re talking about major abdominal surgery. Of course it hurts. If you wake up mid-way, it’s going to hurt a whole lot. With competent medical care and a bit of luck, appropriate medication keeps the pain manageable. Anyone not dumber than a sack of hammers can figure out that an appendectomy will hurt unless properly medicated – this is no different.

    Reply
  83. trueblue2 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Worlord: The problem with your tattoo/piercing analogy is that those things are choice, whereas being trans is not. I don’t know any trans people who have transitioned “just for the heck of it.” Also, I strongly disagree with your contention that being trans is “highly visible” from “across the street.” While this may be true when someone is beginning to transition and/or use hormones, most trans people don’t stand out as you indicate. In fact, I am willing to bet that you and everyone else on here (including myself) have interacted with someone who was trans without us being aware. However, the fact that a person is trans may come up in doctor’s offices, employment situations, or for a variety of reasons through casual social contact. However, this does not give license for people to ask invasive questions – that is need-to-know kind of information. And as others said, things are different when you are friends with a trans person. However, Calpernia was talking about complete strangers asking these questions – questions we would all be offended by if they were asked the first time we met someone. As for people who are clearly in the intermediate stages of transitioning, being “visible” still does not give license for strangers to ask questions, much like Pentomino indicated regarding albinism. It will inevitably happen, but that doesn’t make it ok.

    Most trans people are not trying to parade the fact that they are trans. They are usually transitioning so their exterior matches their interior, and consequently be potentially *less* noticeable. The point is certainly not to turn themselves into a walking biology exhibit.

    Jennfrank: Easily the best post on here. Can’t imagine any of that being said better.

    Porori: Your child is incredibly lucky to have such a loving, open-minded parent. Besides all the great children’s books out there and finding a supportive parental group (either in town or on-line), I recommend just listening and allowing him to do what suits him regarding gender expression. Best wishes to you.

    Reply
  84. mikesum32 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    Wh ! ct ff my pnr nd ppl thnk ‘m wrd. Hy lk t m, ‘m trnssxl ! Lk t m ! ct ff my pnr ! Lk t m ! Dn’t dr sk m qstn ! My prvcy ! Dn’t lk t m lk tht!

    Gd frbd ppl sk qstns, nd ccdntlly stry crss yr bndry.

    Jst hnd t bsnss crd wth ll th nswrs nd sck t p.

    “nd y wll fl y’r blwn prt
    ll th pcs thr wll ft t mk y whl
    nd knw whr thy g”

    Reply
  85. trueblue2 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    By the way, Calpernia, I love you and your work!

    Reply
  86. noen says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    I fucked up before, now I can’t really undo it. Other than to say I’m sorry. Not much more to be said.

    Reply
  87. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    @68

    tell us all about you. Or shut up.

    Reply
  88. jjasper says:
    March 25, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    @102 – hedztalez

    We’re always angry because we deal with the same kinds of questions on a daily basis. My usual response is patience, even if I want to smack someone for touching my hair because “They just wanted to see if it really felt like wool.” or “I’ve never touched a black person’s hair before.”

    Sorry if I was unclear there. One of my friends blogs “Angry Black Woman”, so yeah, have some idea as to why you might be angry. She has a whole set of posts about hair issues. I’ve learned a lot form her.

    Reply
  89. Dr Benway says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    I understand the idea of bad questions, but I am sure this doesn’t apply to me. So please excuse me if this might be offensive, it is not meant to be. But what is “Calpernia Addams” real name?

    I have to admire him for going through with the surgery, it must have hurt. Now if he would just include some pictures of his genitals. How about both before and after.

    Let me know if I can help, I know some gay men that are looking for dates.

    Reply
  90. Egypt Urnash says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:50 pm

    Robert, most of the MtF transwomen I know (including myself!) have a name that’s got nothing in common with the phonemes of their old name. Some have names that come from their family (maybe even the one they would have been given if their birth genitals matched the gender identity they wound up with), some have names that honor something or someone important to them, some have exotic names taken from, say, Shakespeare by way of the Addams Family.

    “Where did your name come from?” is a significantly different question from “What’s your REAL NAME?”. I’ve had people who knew my old name try to use it as a bludgeon during arguments, in hopes of getting me off-balance – and until you’ve gained a measure of confidence in your change, it does hurt, badly.

    Reply
  91. mikesum32 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    @70

    What do you want to know? Or hurry up I have to work tomorrow.

    Takuan, Is it too much to ask that you use my real screen name ?

    Reply
  92. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Gosh, what a long and heated thread..

    Well, I for one don’t have the energy to get into a debate over some of this stuff (weasely, I know), but I think JennFrank @ 51 made some pretty over-generalized statements about both men and women, and the reasons people are the way they are, and like the things they do..

    I would challenge JennFrank to tell any woman I know that chick flicks were made for them, and not the offensively small-box demographic with which they are targeted. Are you really claiming to be represented by board-room economics?

    I also would request that you don’t use your experience with some men to extrapolate how the rest of us think or feel. I have never thought a woman must be a lesbian because she didn’t want to go out with me. And why on earth would I feel intimidated because a woman did any job justice? Surely it is a good thing when jobs are done well (by co-workers or otherwise). I have worked with and been inspired by countless women who really didn’t seem to fit your assertions, and were where they were because they wanted to be, not through some sufferance to their career.

    Also, Lots of men have to fit a working image that doesn’t do their true personality justice. This is not a counter argument, simply a statement of fact.

    I’m not suggesting that we have reached true equality yet, it would be silly to do so (please don’t jump on me for that), but sweeping generalizations aren’t getting anyone anywhere, a point I thought this thread was addressing – in different terms.

    Reply
  93. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Just hand out a business card with all the answers and suck it up

    Reply
  94. noen says:
    March 24, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    As much as I loved Hedwig it wasn’t my story. I couldn’t identify with Hedwig very much. It felt to me more like the story of a drag queen who made a very unfortunate choice. I think it was a little confusing.

    agoodsandwich – Honey, it’s not the duty of the rest of the world to take care of your ego. She didn’t call people dumbasses, she called dumbasses dumbasses.

    Reply
  95. Anonymous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    People often ask me about the “real parents” of the adopted children in my family. Or even occasionally “where did she come from/what nationality is she/what country is she from” when talking about my daughter, who was born in the same hospital as my biological son, about 20 miles away.

    I try to take it easy on them. They don’t mean any harm, and it’s not like I never said anything tactless.

    I do usually say stuff like “uhm, I feel real. Do I not look like a real parent to you?” and “she’s American. What country are you from?” but always with a big grin.

    –Charlie

    Reply
  96. jjasper says:
    March 25, 2008 at 9:08 am

    You get an “I can inquire” card if you’ve spent a lifetime in a hostile culture where your gender identity is something you’ve been told is perverted, insane, dangerous to children, and makes you unemployable.

    You get the card when you’ve been declined access to mens bathrooms AND women’s bathrooms, and told that the reason you get declined access is because you might hit on someone in either bathroom, or make them uncomfortable.

    You get the cars when you finally realize that the dominant culture will ALWAYS tell you that your comfort level is less important than how comfortable they make you feel, and that any expression of anger at the situation is irrational, and you’re being mean for making them feel bad, and why don’t you just suck it up?

    That’s when you get the goddamn card.

    I don’t have one. I’ll never get one. Neither will you. I’m fine with that.

    Unlike you, despite being mostly privileged, I’ve decided that my privilege despite granting me the power to be an absolute jackass without real repercussion, does not confer a moral responsibility to be one.

    If you have more privilege than someone else, try being sensitive to what they have to go through. If they’re angry at privilege bearers, don’t be one of the ones who offends them.

    Reply
  97. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Okay. “Dr Benway” has now made that joke. It was bound to be made … once.

    Noen, let it be forgotten.

    Reply
  98. mikesum32 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    I’m not going to repress my curiosity. That said, I won’t ask a lot of stupid questions. I don’t like to be treated like an asshole for my curiosity, in fact I think it’s one of my redeeming features. The best response to a inappropriate question would be to explain calmly that it’s rude, private, or none of his/her business. Maybe the “dumbass” would learn something about manners that way. Telling them what they want to hear only makes it worse.

    #72, if you want to know something about me I can get back to you later. This isn’t the place, but I’m easy to get ahold of. Just be prepared to fall asleep. Either that, or you can google me.

    “It’s getting cold, picked up the pace.”

    Reply
  99. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 11:32 am

    poor, shallow, weak hu-mans. Why can’t we judge each other by what really counts? Money.

    Reply
  100. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    hey,I just thought it was a good tune

    Reply
  101. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    MikeSum32,

    You seem to have some serious penis issues going on there. Is this a cry for help?

    Reply
  102. WorLord says:
    March 26, 2008 at 11:35 am

    @Teresa: “WorLord, if you have a wife and friends, then you must have manners undreamt-of in all your philosophies.”

    There is sometimes a vast gulf between what I think (and voice in conversation) and how I act.

    I thought that was more common than it seems to be.

    Reply
  103. Elorin says:
    March 25, 2008 at 9:17 am

    Erm…so what are we calling gay?
    Someone genetically female, psychologically male, who lives as a male, who likes women? Or the same guy liking men? The argument could go either way.

    Reply
  104. merlot winters says:
    March 27, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    as a reader of BoingBoing from the paper ‘zine days, i’m always being surprised at how COOL y’all STILL ARE after all these years.

    KUDOS TO CALPERNIA, XENI, and the MODERATORS.

    As a transwoman from the deep south, i’ve always aspired to the grace of Jackie O, the wit of Dorothy Parker, and the nerve of Shirley MacLaine in ‘Steel Magnolias’. Trust me, i grew up taking blows from the John Rockers and Nancy Graces of this world, so (for the most part) i don’t sweat people like Worlord (like the ‘Wizard of Wor’?). Unfortunately, his logic, taken to its extreme, has led to the rationalizations of the cheapness of the lives of transgender individuals who suffer a murder rate fifteen times that of the rest of the population. After all, we should not expect to be treated like everyone else, should we. The truth is we’re literally dying to be who we are.

    Bless Calpernia for trying to raise her profile and become the superstar she is on this plane of existence as well as the next. Bless Xeni for her assertive, unapologetic love for human beings. And bless BoingBoing for loving hopeless nerds and romantics like myself.

    Reply
  105. noen says:
    March 24, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    “I don’t like to be treated like an asshole for my curiosity, in fact I think it’s one of my redeeming features.”

    Trust me, it isn’t.

    Reply
  106. Elorin says:
    March 26, 2008 at 7:35 am

    @Teresa #129
    I think your comment is unnecessarily harsh. It brings up a lot of thoughts but I can’t take the time to compose them all at the moment and they are rather long winded. I’ll post back when I have them all written down.

    Reply
  107. Randwulf says:
    March 24, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    Because the water can sometimes be murky about what pronoun to use and so to avoid insult, if it’s not obvious, or I haven’t been provided with it ahead of time, or if it’s not been volunteered, the closest I will come to a personal question would be to tactfully ask what pronoun they would prefer me to use.

    I have friends who identify as female or male 24/7. Some are female or male depending on how they are dressed at the time. Some are rigid about what they prefer to be called, some aren’t. Nonetheless I try my absolute best to remember their pronoun preference and apologize for any slip-ups, even keeping my apologies low-key and non-dramatic as well.

    Otherwise, anything else is not my business.

    Reply
  108. Elorin says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    @WORLORD #114
    You said “Except that I *don’t* know that its “just plain rude;” in fact, I don’t think it is, and I don’t see that anyone here has shown it to *be* such. Repeating the assertion is not some sort of support *for* that assertion.”

    I don’t ~know~ that it’s just plain rude to ask a lady her age. Some people arbitrarily decided it is rude, despite the unrealistic nature of that decision.

    Who decided? Probably a number of LADIES. Because it made them uncomfortable to answer the question.

    Who gets to decide when personal questions are rude? THE PEOPLE YOU ARE ASKING THEM OF WHOM IT MAKES UNCOMFORTABLE.

    Rude vs. polite, and manners in general, are very arbitrary and depend upon our culture. When a new situation arises then the new “rules” and manners dealing with the situation will be just as arbitrary.

    But it isn’t just about trans people. Asking someone you hardly know intimate details of their sex lives and medical history is considered impolite. Whether they are “normal” (cis-gendered) or appear to be abnormal (look like a transgender in transition).

    Certainly it’s natural for you to be curious. But it is RUDE to ask them intimate questions as long as they continue to be a casual acquaintance.

    Does it mean you are TRYING to be rude? Certainly not. Does your lack of intention do anything to make the person being asked more comfortable? Possibly, possibly not. It is natural for someone to be curious? Definitely.

    But now that you have been told, you probably won’t thoughtlessly indulge such curiosity by asking a stranger such intimate questions in the future.

    Reply
  109. Anonymous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    I don’t get why the title has quotation marks around stunning.

    I’m sure it’s just because I don’t pay enough attention and I missed something but, damn, she’s hot. She needs no quotation marks.

    Reply
  110. jjasper says:
    March 25, 2008 at 9:31 am

    Elorin @ #87 – In the case of transpeople, it’s respectful to go with self identification. If someone says they’re gay, they’re gay.

    And yes, there are FtM transpeople who identify as gay men. Calling them straight women is not respectful.

    Reply
  111. CalperniaAddams says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Hey kids! I do VERY much wish I had edited down the beginning so that this video got to the point much more quickly. I improvised the whole thing from a list I had written and then rush-edited it so that I could go to bed, never thinking it would become popular. Once it was on YouTube, I didn’t want two versions confusing everyone.

    This video is my humorous was of making a point. In real life, I respond to questions a lot more compassionately as long as I can sense kindness in the questioner. All the same, after more than a decade I am sick of the questions and would prefer people just look this stuff up on the internet. In any case, many people who watch this video seem to miss the fact that I pretty much answer most of the questions right in the video anyway.

    But dumb questions or not, I still love you all! =)

    Reply
  112. skatanic says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Great video. And sorry if this is a bad question but why does she go to gay bars?

    Reply
  113. WorLord says:
    March 25, 2008 at 9:38 am

    @JJasper: Your third paragraph is more a reflection of how the non-TG crowd in this conversation have been treated. It it is exactly that condescending, look-down-your-nose, “STFU! RTFM! Suck it up, n00b” attitude that I am _protesting_, because it doesn’t do anyone on _either side of the fence_ any good.

    Yr mrtyr cmplx s nwrrntd, mndrng, nd bsd th pnt. Gt ff f yr crss. skng qstns s nt th mrk f “ttl jckss,” bt trtng ths qstns (whch, gn, r rsnbl rctns t th nq) nd th ppl wh sk thm wth bttrnss, snrk, nd hlr-thn-th tttd _s_.

    I agree with you in one thing: having privilege (or more privilege than some) doesn’t grant one the right to be a jackass; but you know what, neither does having a hard life that leads to making unconventional decisions. Perhaps if everyone stopped treating behavior they don’t immediately understand as some kind of offensive salvo, life would be better for everyone.

    Reply
  114. noen says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    Warlard, your trolling here is done. Time to give it up.

    Reply
  115. Xeni Jardin says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    @Anonymous 17, “Stunning” is the title of the music video by Calpernia also linked to in this blog post. But yes, she is stunning without quotation marks, as well.

    @CalperniaAddams, you rule.

    Reply
  116. Elorin says:
    March 25, 2008 at 9:39 am

    JJasper @ #88 – I’m aware of what is respectful, and what reference ~I~ would use (the individuals’ self identification) but not everyone has considered the issue.

    Personally I’ve known far too wide a variety of sexual orientations, identifications, and genderqueers to care very much about pointing and saying “such and so is gay” or not. The only issue I’d be concerned with is whether such and so is attracted to ME or not (ok, or my daughter) and whether the attraction is returned.

    Reply
  117. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 11:49 am

    here,most especially,voice in conversation IS acting

    Reply
  118. WorLord says:
    March 26, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    @ARKIZZLE:

    I want to see if I’m *truly* understanding what you wrote before I reply to it.

    What you’re saying, and correct me if I’m wrong, is one of two things; either:

    – I don’t honestly believe what I say I do, or

    – I walk the earth constantly acting in accordance with every single opinion I hold.

    In other words, you’re telling me that people in this conversation find it impossible (or unnecessary) to think that things and people might be a tad more complicated than that, and therefore, its okay to reply with invective aimed at a person’s character if that person holds an opinion you don’t like.

    Is that about the half of it? Yes/No/Maybe?

    Reply
  119. vorpalsword says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    If you meet a transsexual who appears (on the surface, anyway) halfway through the transition, and you honestly can’t tell whether they’re a man becoming a woman or vice versa– how do you go about asking what pronoun to use?

    I got around this by privately asking the person who introduced me, but it just doesn’t seem like there’s any polite way to do it…

    Reply
  120. Enochrewt says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    I have a few gay friends that have some peculiar tastes, that is for a straight guy like myself. I learned that when my one of those friends told me a man with hair on the inside of his forearms is the sexiest things he could think of on a man that I would never understand his version of being gay. I kind assume transgendered folk are the same. No matter how many questions I ask, I’ll never get it. Why not just not ask, accept it, and move on?

    Reply
  121. Takuan says:
    March 25, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Gentlepersons:

    I fear the discussion becomes needlessly heated. Might I humbly suggest all retire to their corners, rinse off the blood and return with renewed open minds and empty hands?

    Reply
  122. Smjor says:
    March 25, 2008 at 12:40 am

    Regarding the idea that gender specific pronouns don’t matter because they should just be avoided altogether when in the presence of the person being referred to-

    I don’t think this is a bad rule of thumb in general, but I think it leads to awkward, clumsy sounding conversations. Here is a sample sentence, first with a gender specific pronoun and then without, using only a proper pronoun to refer to someone. Please imagine that this sentence is being spoken in a group of people that includes the person being spoken about:

    “Calpernia told me that she has noticed women’s clothing sizes tend to be irregular and unreliable for determining if an item will fit her and doesn’t believe that she is the only person to feel this way, do you agree?”

    Replacing the pronoun with the proper pronoun:
    “Calpernia told me that Calpernia has noticed that women’s clothing sizes tend to be irregular and unreliable for determining if an item will fit Calpernia and doesn’t believe that Calpernia is the only person to feel this way, do you agree?”

    It’s effing ridiculous. I know that a lot of foreign languages don’t have gender specific pronouns, but English does and I guess that it will be a very long time before it transitions from this habit. In the meantime are we just not supposed to refer to people at all? Are we really to be expected to construct these bulky and very often circuitous or incomplete sentences all the time? I am not stuck on the idea that I need to reference someone’s gender within a conversation. If someone tells me that they are fine with being referred to as “it” I have no problem doing my best to be mindful of this preference. But I feel that to ask me to go out of my way to avoid referring to you using anything but your proper name, when it is my native language’s habit not to do so is sort of unfair.

    Reply
  123. absimiliard says:
    March 26, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Hey Takuan, I think Stephen Colbert advocates fairly well for that view. Richer people are BETTER people than poor, The Market says so!!!

    *laughs* (Umm, a sarcastic laugh for those not getting that both me and Colbert are joking)

    At the risk of offending: *refers Worlord to the Dictionary to look up the definition of “hypocrisy”* And yeah, it is pretty common in America. I do it more often than I’m happy admitting.

    -abs

    Reply
  124. Anonymous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Calpurnia
    was the name of Caesar’s wife. Yes, THAT Caesar, “Beware the ides of March” and “Friends, Romans, countrymen”. Not a common name today although I have known two Calpurnia’s (both from the south).

    Reply
  125. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    how do you go about asking what pronoun to use?

    I usually address people with ‘you’. Maybe ‘thou’ at the Renaissance Faire.

    Reply
  126. absimiliard says:
    March 25, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Hi Noen,

    I was shocked at someone wanting to touch a black person’s hair because they wanted to know if it felt like wool. I thought we were beyond that.

    I wish I would be shocked at the bigotry shown to GLB/TG individuals. But given that this is America I wouldn’t be. I would be horrified, and appalled (note the two “P”s indicating the level of appalled). However I wouldn’t be surprised.

    And yes, I’m well aware than huge sections of America view TG = Gay = Pedophile. My brother got born-again and is now in just such a section.

    Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

    But, alas, such attitudes don’t surprise me. With race I thought we’d gotten over that though. Obviously I was wrong, but I was surprised.

    -abs

    Reply
  127. SammySnapshot says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    An outstanding video. Tackling tough “questions” for an important issue–done with style, grace, and humour. Just tongue-in-cheek enough to get the point across. What more could one ask for?

    Thank-you, Calpernia!

    Reply
  128. WorLord says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    I am finding the round and unanimous condemnation of the “curious” in this thread (Robert, in specific) to be somewhat unrealistic and undeserved.

    Let’s face facts:
    – TG people *are* uncommon
    – The change is a prominent and visible one
    – The decision to transition is not one that is understood by a great many people
    – People tend to fear (or worse, react badly towards) that which they do not understand

    So, obviously, the correct course of action here is to brand the inquisitive as somehow backwards or evil, and deny them the ability to seek education from those most qualified to disperse it?

    “You’re curious? Tough!” is, in my opinion, completely inappropriate, unrealistic, and discourteous in its own right. It assumes that there is some kind of crime being committed by those who’s curiosity is piqued by the sight or presence of the transgendered. Getting angry that other people might show some curiosity towards the appearance of such a highly-visible body modification makes little sense; it would be like a person getting angry about having to explain a prominent but enigmatic forehead tatoo.

    Such attitude is, to my eyes, irrational. Certainly, I would think that the only *sane* expectation *would* be curiosity, possibly inquiry, when others are faced with such a visibly distinct body modification. For my part, I don’t have to pepper the Tgs I’ve met with questions, because I was good friends with one long ago who has for the most part answered any questions I might have had. I was informed that with some, it can be a sensitive issue, and from that point forth I have always done my best to use the correct pronouns and treat a transgendered individual as simply another person. But before that point, I didn’t know to do so, and I never once felt a flush of shame (nor do I think there is any reason to feel such) with asking questions of a person who has undergone this sort of transformation.

    I once asked frankly about the sex life of a man I’d met earlier in the day who informed me that he always sat to pee (due to having a Prince Albert piercing); was that also rude? I don’t think so. After all, the man brought it up.

    While I understand that it can be annoying and possibly painful to have to field some questions repeatedly, I have to protest the branding of those bearing questions as somehow “rude” or lacking in “tact”. Common curiosity is not a fault; keeping everyone in the dark about it is considerably more problematic.

    Reply
  129. montauk says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    @Vorpalsword – in almost all situations, you can avoid using a pronoun altogether by using the person’s name. If you really need to use one, just ask the person in a polite tone – “Sorry, what’s your gender identification?” and then get on with it.

    @Skatanic – I’m a mostly straight girl and sometimes go to queer bars. I’m also a mostly white girl and sometimes go to Indian restaurants. It can be helpful to break down this idea of “biological gender = gender identity = sexual orientation = sexual behavior”, because there’s no link in that chain that doesn’t fall apart for a whopping amount of people.

    @Enochrewt – Let’s not forget that regular old heterosexuals can have peculiar tastes too, which can be just as baffling. Sexual diversity abounds.

    Reply
  130. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:
    March 26, 2008 at 8:10 am

    (*sigh*)

    There are some comments you can’t ignore.

    WorLord (112):

    @Sophia Girl: “Wanting to go about your life without constantly being bombarded with personal, sometimes demeaning questions is *not* an unreasonable sense of entitlement.”

    I think it is, _considering the circumstances_. It is a justifiable sense of entitlement – in a perfect world, I agree one should be able to go through one’s life unquestioned – but I *also* see it as unreasonable because it simply isn’t a realistic expectation to have in these situations. If its not a realistic expectation to have, its not a reasonable expectation to have.

    Notice how no one is agreeing with you? You’re taking yourself out of the “gormless” category and moving into the junior league of the same category that contains men who explain that women sometimes need to be smacked around, or parents who scream Nobody’s going to tell me how to raise my kid!” when you try to get them to stop physically or verbally abusing their child. You know your bad behavior hurts people, but you’ve consciously chosen to go on doing it anyway.

    I was appalled by comment 117, where you said

    I don’t see a way I can continue discussing a point that is, apparently, inherently unreasonable and apparently arbitrarily generated by a committee I’ve never met.

    How much work have you put into understanding this? I think the answer has to be “close to zero.”

    Do you think everyone else gets a complete explanation for why other people react the way they do? On the off chance that you’ve actually missed knowing that, the answer is: they don’t. That’s what manners are for. If we all had a perfect understanding of each others’ motives and reactions, the concept of manners wouldn’t even exist.

    Every other person in this conversation has had to assimilate rules of polite behavior they didn’t fully understand at the time. It’s part of the price of belonging to a social species.

    If you’re holding out for that special someone who’ll always love you just the way you are, you can kiss the fantasy goodbye. That person was your mom, and your age was still in single digits. No one else is going to do that for you.

    You still have two options, and the one that isn’t “amend your behavior” is still “be a jerk.”

    Reply
  131. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Common curiosity is not a fault

    In a world….where Google does not exist….

    with a government….that has banned Wikipedia….

    you might get away with that. You being too lazy to look shit up is not an excuse to ask people questions about their crotches.

    Reply
  132. Christopher says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    re: #1 0 WTf! On the one hand, Xeni is so gorgeous I can’t imagine anyone mistaking her for trans. On the other hand, Calpernia is also a stunning lady. So I’m with Xeni in her response, what’s wrong with being trans?

    Why are so many men so afraid of anything other than cookie cutter templates?

    – Christopher
    … who feels his fellow leatherfolk should be the protectors/enforcers of the alt-sex crowd – after all, we have all the appropriate toys for it

    Reply
  133. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    “hypocrisy” requires intent. Mr. Worlord has indicated this is not the case. What then,is it?

    Reply
  134. ninjarom says:
    April 18, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    First off, great video, very entertaining, made me smile a lot.

    What I really wanted to say though is that while I didn’t read all the comments (have you seen how many there are? :O ) I did read a lot and its heart warming to see so many be so refreshingly decent, smart and positive about a subject that not that many years ago, most would not have dared to comment on in such a way.

    Reply
  135. montauk says:
    March 24, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    @Worlord – as Calpernia herself said in the comments, if she senses that the person is kind she’s usually understanding.

    The problem here isn’t curiosity. Nobody saying you aren’t allowed to be curious. The problem here is entitlement. Transgendered people, just for making a very personal life choice, are not obligated to educate you or satiate your curiosity. You are not entitled to personal information about them. They do not owe you an answer or an education. Choosing not to tell you deeply personal information about their genitalia, their sexual identity, or their medical history is not “keeping you in the dark”; it’s exercising their right to privacy. If you’re really that pained that they won’t tell you, do a Google search and educate yourself.

    Reply
  136. Ogre Lawless says:
    March 25, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    I could only get through half of the video before turning it off, unfortunately. While I sympathize, I can’t help feeling a little bad for the question askers. I don’t think they are necessarily asking questions to be hurtful. Rude and insensitive, perhaps, but as its been pointed out, transgenderism is a subject that smashes many taboos and without a broader understanding, folks are gonna be curious about things. I mean, I would have thought that gender reassignment surgery would not have been a bucket of pickles…

    Reply
  137. Anonymous says:
    September 5, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Thanks, Calpernia. Very useful information. Reminds me of some of the things I (a gay man) get asked in bumf*ck Austria, where I live. I do have a question for you though: You’re an actress; anything I could see you in here? i.e. videos to buy, etc. You’re obviously wildly intelligent and not a little funny, so I’d guess you’re a really fine performer. Be well and thanks again.

    Reply
  138. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:
    March 26, 2008 at 8:20 am

    Elorin: yes, it was harsh. I want everyone to have a better life, including WorLord.

    Reply
  139. Xopher says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    On “real” names (and “real” parents etc.): If you’ve achieved the level of intimacy required to ask “what was your name before the change,” you can ask in those terms. Otherwise the best answer is “if I wanted you to know, I’d tell you.”

    Is ‘Xopher’ my “real” name? Well, yes, insofar as internet interactions are real. It’s the name I’m known by in several places. It happens that there are people who call me that in meatspace as well, but that’s not relevant to my point. Please note that the idea that internet interactions are to be contrasted with “IRL” (for In Real Life) causes a lot of very bad internet behavior.

    If you ask me what my legal name is, I’ll tell you if I want you to know. In my case, my legal name and my birth name are the same thing, but that wouldn’t be true if I had changed my name–for marriage, or because I didn’t like my father, or because I wanted to be called Wimbling Dogbody, and who are you to judge?

    I have a friend who has three fathers: the abusive monster who raised him until age 7, the kind-but-slightly-wacky gentleman who adopted him after that, and his biological father, who he never heard of until a few months ago. Which is his REAL father? I insist on calling his adoptive father his real father, even though that sometimes leads to confusion. I don’t think that highly of that gentleman, but he’s the only one who ever acted as a father acts to my friend, and is the closest thing to a real father he’s ever had. Better than many fathers, in fact.

    The word ‘real’ is just so massively loaded, in virtually every context, that using it generally causes more harm than good. If you feel you have the right to ask the question at all, ask it specifically, avoiding terms that make it more offensive than it has to be–like the word ‘real’.

    Reply
  140. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:
    March 26, 2008 at 8:22 am

    The question I personally wanted to ask Calpernia is why she spells it that way, rather than the traditional “Calpurnia.”

    Reply
  141. Sophia Girl says:
    March 25, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Worlord wrote: “I agree, in theory. In practice is where I think this falls completely apart.”

    If you are constantly bombarded with very-personal questions just because you had to make a certain choice for the mere sake of your mental health — that isn’t theory. That is practice.

    He wrote: “I don’t think I’m amiss in saying that you, too, have an unreasonable sense of entitlement.”

    Yes, you are *very* amiss. Wanting to go about your life without constantly being bombarded with personal, sometimes demeaning questions is *not* an unreasonable sense of entitlement.

    He wrote: “Transgendered people have indeed made a life choice, and usually for _personal reasons_. That, we agree on. But I balk at alling it a very _personal life choice_. It isn’t personal; in fact, what is arguably the largest part of it is very _public_: one now goes out into the world, to interact with the public, as a member of the opposite gender. Like the analogy involving the prominent and enigmatic tattoo on the forehead”

    Your analogy is way off.

    Transsexual people made the choice because it was absolutely necessary for the sake of mental health. It isn’t a fashion statement – but a necessity for the sake of just being one’s self. Someone with a tatoo on their forehead isn’t trying to live-down the fact that the tatoo wasn’t always there. A more accurate analogy is to look at someone who clearly has the scars of having undergon surgery for a cleft lip. It would be rude to ask them personal questions about that — and it is rude to constantly prod a transsexual with personal questions.

    He wrote: “I won’t treat anyone differently for that, and I certainly won’t treat anyone who does any of those things negatively. I am vocal in my condemnation of anyone who would treat someone as less because they saw fit to modify themselves.”

    Constantly bombarding people with very-personal questions *is* treating them as less. If you every go around asking genetic-women personal questions about their genitals – I suggest you take some pain medicine with you, because you can expect to get slapped.

    He then proceeded to write: “But I do think it needs to be said that a person who does something like this doesn’t automagically have the right to expect the rest of the human race to suppress what is a near-instinctual reaction. You don’t get to re-write the basic rules of human nature. It is madness to expect people to be blase about something that is, for most of them, a very visible and radical alteration”

    If that argument were followed to it’s consistency, then we’d have to throw *all* manners out the windows. After all — that’s what manners are all about – suppressing what would otherwise be an instinctual reaction because you are aware of the fact that it’s just plain rude.

    Reply
  142. Antinous says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    who feels his fellow leatherfolk should be the protectors/enforcers of the alt-sex crowd

    I can always use a hero.

    Reply
  143. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 10:09 am

    Michael 84: Thank you for asking! My parents always said ZOH-fur (rhymes with gopher), and so that’s what I tell people. If they say EKS-uh-fer I sometimes just let it pass, and sometimes tell them they can pronounce it Christopher if they like (since syllable reduction is clearly not an issur for them).

    One way NOT to pronounce it is ‘Chris’. I have several names, but that is not one of them.

    Worlord 85: Boy are there questions I’d like to ask! One of them’s a video, though, and it’s NSFW, so it’ll have to wait for when I’m home.

    JJasper 88: Thank you for pointing that out. Gender Identity and Gender of Attraction are two separate things. In my book, if GI == GA, that’s a gay person. If GI == !GA, that’s a straight person. I’ll leave “bisexual” as an exercise for the reader. (I do have a problem with “go with self-identification,” but it’s seriously OT here.) People who don’t understand why a lesbian trapped in a man’s body would be unhappy don’t understand being trans, or being gay, or both.

    I’m not even faintly trans. I have the right gender for me. I have no sexual interest in women, and I do have in men. The first half of this makes my life easier; the second somewhat harder. Only in the minds of the most foolish does the first make me “better” and the second make me “worse” than other people. I would hope that the days are gone when telling someone you’re gay gets “doesn’t that mean you want to be a woman?” (The younger among you may not believe that I used to have to explain that it didn’t.) I hope for the day when telling someone you’re trans doesn’t get ignorant (in both Northern and Southern senses) questions either.

    Two things about privilege: People who have it tend not to notice it, and when they stop having it, thing they’re being oppressed. And people who have privilege often feel obliged to continually remind everyone else that they don’t.

    Reply
  144. mkultra says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Personally I found the saccharine/vitriolic tone of the video (while perfectly understandable) a bit off-putting. After all, (from my perspective) the likely viewers of such a video are those who are cautious enough about their behavior to watch a 16min video tutorial in order to avoid giving offense.

    Perhaps it’s because I grew up around transgendered folk, but it all seemed pretty common-sense to me, and I can’t honestly say I learned much of anything, though I suppose it’s some comfort that I haven’t been making some sort of hideous, invisible gaffe.

    As for Xeni, I agree that it’s a ridiculous putdown in this day and age. She’s a quite lovely, brilliant woman by any measure, and either way it matters not in the slightest.
    (the only situation I think it might make a difference would be if one were in the position of dating her–which I would imagine is a vanishingly tiny demographic, more’s the pity)

    @#21: The polite thing to do is to simply use his or her name when referring to them in the third person, rather than a pronoun. In some cultures referring to someone by a pronoun in their presence is terribly rude, whatever the gender.

    Reply
  145. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Oh, and Miss Manners was once asked, “How may one inquire as to a gentleman’s sexual orientation?”

    She replied “One may not. What one may inquire is whether the gentleman in question is romantically interested in oneself.”

    A good response, and it also clearly illustrates a point. Some information is need-to-know. That’s different from want-to-know. I would go further than MM on this: one may inquire if someone else is romantically interested if and only if that person has given some signs to that effect, and only if one is interested in that person.

    I have learned that it’s not a good idea for me to answer straight men when they ask “do you think I’m hot?” This is the straight guy equivalent of “do I look fat in this dress?” So in that case, they’re not entitled even to that much information. I generally say “If I do, I’ll do my best to hide it” or something like that.

    Reply
  146. Jeff says:
    March 26, 2008 at 8:38 am

    In our egalitarian society different looking/acting people are not supposed to be looked at or treated as if they are freaks. It’s just not polite. My name is on a conference room that I donated to a brand new LGBT center in Ferdale Michigan (Affirmations), a room that happens to be used for (amoung other things) a Transgender support group. Transgender people are different, but they deserve to be treated like anyone else. The moderator made this point VERY clear. Thank you.

    Reply
  147. Bionicrat2 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    @ #25 WorLord –

    I think what most folks are talking about here is just common manners. As you said you had a friend you could pepper with questions. My guess is most TG’s don’t sweat answering questions from people they care about. But having a drunk frat boy or the person that moved into your neighboring cubicle ask you about your genitals would be out-of-line.

    We’re all curious, or we wouldn’t be here looking through Boingboing’s comments. I still have lots of questions for people with disabilities or from non-mainstream religions, but I’m certain they won’t get answered the next time I sit next to blind guy on the subway.

    Is it time to repost the centaur on a job interview video?

    Reply
  148. WorLord says:
    March 25, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    @Noen: “your trolling here is done”

    How cerebral. The old 1998-vintage “dissenting opinion = troll” trick. Just when I thought it’d been lost to the sands of time. Good to see a classic still in play.

    @Elorin: “Rude vs. polite, and manners in general, are very arbitrary and depend upon our culture. When a new situation arises then the new “rules” and manners dealing with the situation will be just as arbitrary.” … “Who gets to decide when personal questions are rude? THE PEOPLE YOU ARE ASKING”

    I… see.

    I guess Noen gets his wish. I don’t see a way I can continue discussing a point that is, apparently, inherently unreasonable and apparently arbitrarily generated by a committee I’ve never met.

    “But now that you have been told, you probably won’t thoughtlessly indulge such curiosity by asking a stranger such intimate questions in the future.”

    Assuming I did so in the first place, which is utterly incorrect. But whatever.

    Reply
  149. absimiliard says:
    March 26, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Hi Teresa!

    Alas, I doubt your “education” of Worlord is likely to have any effect beyond lowering your own blood-pressure by venting what was annoying you.

    Sorry, just my take on it.

    More on-topic, damn I want to know why she spells it that way too. Calpurnia I could easily see. But why change the spelling in such a minor, and since it’s pronounced the same, and inconsequential way? I’m stumped.

    -abs

    “BTW, I never got a chance to mention it at Boskone, but Damn Teresa your title for Jen’s book was just about perfect. Very apropos. Hopefully you’ve gotten your copy by now, I know she mailed it out a bit ago.”

    Reply
  150. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    Not having the courage of your convictions.

    OR

    Saving face in an otherwise hostile environment.

    Either stand how you think, or think how you stand.

    Reply
  151. Joel Johnson says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    If and when science gets to the point that it could make me into a really hot girl without much trouble and then make it easy reversible (because I like being a man, too!) then I am all about it. I think having a woman’s body would be amazing, but I’m just not ready to commit.

    Reply
  152. Erisis says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    First, before I bitch or vent, let me say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANKYOU, to Xeni for posting this!!! I’ve been a regular reader of BoingBoing for years and seeing this posting made me smile from ear to ear. I’m a trans-woman and a lifelong nerd (and damn proud of both those things!!!) and this was such a “Peanut Butter In My Chocolate” moment for me. Acknowledgement of trans-issues in such a wide ranging forum as BB is in my opinion a major step in my not having to be the only trans person that most people I encounter have ever met.
    Actually, that said, there are sooo many other things I could bitch or vent about, I think I’ll just leave it at “Thank You BoingBoing”!!!

    Slainte Chugat!
    Lorelei Erisis

    Reply
  153. Takuan says:
    March 25, 2008 at 10:26 am

    so what’s the straight guy version of “does this outfit make my ass look big?”

    Reply
  154. Julie Allen says:
    June 3, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    ok this is for you Dum—- Robert , March 24, 2008 1:54 PM
    you come along and think you have a right to demand of anyone anything well sorry honey it don’t work that way. As a transsexual woman I owe you no explanation or information at all and neither does Calpernia if she chooses to that is up to her so get over your self and grow up.

    Q: Don’t be offended, but…(but the great erasser)
    A: It’s offensive! I’m not interested in educating you!
    RL: Well, you’re a transsexual. We don’t see a lot of you. What did you expect, no curiosity at all?(open your eyes we are all over and you have probably worked with a few)

    Q: Did it hurt?
    A: “An-es-thesia”, dumb-dumb!
    RL: “Un-in-ten-ded in-tra-op-er-a-tive a-ware-ness”.(your a real smoothy i bet)

    Q: What was your “real” name?
    A: Calpernia, dumbass!
    RL: I know a few transsexuals, and their names mostly come from feminizations or masculinizations of their previous legal names. WTF does “Calpernia” come from? It’s not exactly a common name, so I’d really like to know. Dumbass.(where does robert come from??? and why does it matter Dum—-

    I guess I could go on. Hey Calpernia… you’re not common! We have questions! Get used to it!
    hey what does it matter and get used to being told F— off we need not answer if we do not want to and if we do then just say thank you.

    Reply
  155. Takuan says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    benway: you’re a moron. Learn if you wish to and have the capacity. In the interim, try to minimize the harm you do.

    Noen: if you have done evil and learned the difference, that is enough. We all never get it totally right.

    I have in my hovel a painting. Some beach stones in acrylic, multi-coloured and random on a field of white, the canvas slowly yellowing with inexorable time like the sea that shaped them. A gift from a young woman years ago. She’s gone now. A mysterious illness took her – with many, many others.

    Rachel was born Rick, I met her by chance and was impressed with a spirit still capable of both self respect and love and regard for others in the face of overwhelming adversity and and an ignorant, hostile and needlessly abusive world.

    All she ever wanted to was live the life others are born to and take for granted. No riches,no fame, no power, just do her art and walk down the street like any citizen,unmolested, respected as a human and free to find her own love and family.

    She died. If the stigma that prevented timely recognition of a new plague and condemned millions
    to an early grave had not flourished under the shadow of social fear and prejudice, that need not have been so.

    Reply
  156. Elorin says:
    March 25, 2008 at 1:52 pm

    @WORLORD
    You can certainly discuss whether you think it should be rude or not, why you feel trans people shouldn’t be offended by it, why if you did it you would not intend to offend. But whether it IS rude or not? Nope, not really.

    I’ve never felt that manners and politeness were unreasonable, although they are certainly arbitrary. But then I was raised with a belief that manners are inherently based on making people feel comfortable. Once you have that as a basis, most things that are considered good manners seem reasonable. (Note: I’m not talking about etiquette, which while similar is not the same.)

    Now, why something makes someone uncomfortable I may not ever understand. (I don’t get why it makes women uncomfortable to be asked their age. Their weight, maybe, but not their age.) But I can understand that what makes a question rude is the fact that it makes someone uncomfortable.

    And honestly, no I wasn’t assuming you did anything in the first place. The point I was making is that “I didn’t know that was rude” is an excuse only until you know. Once you have been informed that something is rude then you can change your future behavior.

    Reply
  157. WorLord says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    @Takuan: “here,most especially,voice in conversation IS acting”

    Wow.

    So if I told you that I think the speed limit is illogical, and made a bunch of arguments about why I think its silly and unnecessary, and was passionate about those arguments… that’s the same thing as speeding, to you? Really? If I were to say that, you’d have no problem believing that I break the speed limit as a matter of compulsive routine? And that there are no other reasons besides “hypocrisy” that might cause me to act in a different way?

    Huh. That’s something.

    Reply
  158. se7a7n7 says:
    March 24, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    I don’t know if this makes sense to others or not but I can sort of identify with Calpernia’s problems, wait for it… having been a person from Kansas living in NYC. obviously it’s not the same.

    However, when certain people would learn that boring bit of information, they would often follow with many stupid questions and belittling comments. It was as if suddenly finding out that I’m from a “fly-over state” meant something about me that gave the other person an upper hand. I worked with a guy in a restaurant who thought it was cool to call me “Kansas” no matter how many times I told him not to. After all I have an actual name. This guy has a total Napoleon complex and was very close to getting punched on a few occasions. The fact that I’m from Kansas does not define me. The fact that this guy is a jackass does define him.

    Conversely the same is true for TGs and the people that bother them.

    As for pronouns, I always opt for the one that they want to be. So I would refer to Calpernia as he or she out of respect. I try to use the generic “you” when I’m not sure. Because to me, there’s few things that I regret more than getting something like that wrong and hurting an innocent person feelings.

    Reply
  159. Erisis says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    First, before I bitch or vent, let me say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANKYOU, to Xeni for posting this!!! I’ve been a regular reader of BoingBoing for years and seeing this posting made me smile from ear to ear. I’m a trans-woman and a lifelong nerd (and damn proud of both those things!!!) and this was such a “Peanut Butter In My Chocolate” moment for me. Acknowledgement of trans-issues in such a wide ranging forum as BB is in my opinion a major step in my not having to be the only trans person that most people I encounter have ever met.
    Actually, that said, there are sooo many other things I could bitch or vent about, I think I’ll just leave it at “Thank You BoingBoing”!!!

    Slainte Chugat!
    Lorelei Erisis

    Reply
  160. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    Not really, no.

    * You said that you think different than you act.

    * Takuan suggested that on a board, the only thing people can respond to is how you act (or type).

    * Absimiliard called you a hypocrite.

    * Takuan disagreed.

    * I offered that people should probably act as they think.

    * You made a spurious example, suggesting Takuan believed conversations were the same as actions.

    * I tried to clarify what she actually said.

    * You agreed. Also saying that people had responded to more than your words.

    * I said, to avoid being responded to as if your words represented your actual position, you should clarify that some of your words don’t.

    So, really, my only point so far, has been about making a distinction between your actual opinions, and the ideas you express to avoid being painted with your own words. The post and ensuing comments, are on a topic that some people clearly find very important, more important than you or me, I suspect.

    - I don’t honestly believe what I say I do

    You said “There is sometimes a vast gulf between what I think (and voice in conversation) and how I act“.

    - I walk the earth constantly acting in accordance with every single opinion I hold.

    No, but that’s your choice either way. Some people act more than others in accordance with their beliefs. For better or worse.

    I haven’t said anything remotely controversial, or to inspire: “I want to see if I’m *truly* understanding what you wrote before I reply to it.”

    Reply
  161. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    boy, it’s like jazz; if you gotta ask, you ain’t nevah gonna know…..

    Reply
  162. Clif Marsiglio says:
    March 25, 2008 at 6:06 am

    m th nly n dsppntd by th lck f dscssn bt Xn??? C’mn, tht nm nd th hr — t s strght p t f n f ths qn 70s flcks…nd ‘v sn fw. mn, hv frnds tht hv sn fw. Yh. Nt m…

    As for the rest of this thread, living in the midwest for most of my life, I know people are curious. And people who do not encounter others like Calpernia are going to be unintentionally rude.

    I went through this jerky phase when I had a friend go through the process and looking back upon it, I was probably one of the biggest assholes around. I *STILL* don’t understand a lot of it, never will, but that is alright…it isn’t my life and my only duty to my friends is to accept them for who they are.

    Bt lts gt bck t wht s mprtnt…th Xn cmmnts.

    Reply
  163. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Takuan, it’s “do you think I’m hot?” You really think there’s a difference?

    I’ve tried to tell straight guys they can answer with “You’re always beautiful to me, but that outfit doesn’t flatter your gorgeous body.” They never listen, even when I point out that they can only use that when the woman has the opportunity to change OUT of said outfit. A woman who asks that when there ISN’T an opportunity is trying to start a fight, and the right answer is “So, what do you want to fight about really?” :-D

    Of course, if the outfit DOES flatter her gorgeous body, the best answer is “It makes me want to tear it off you, but I’ll wait until later.” Assuming, of course, that she’s your lady love, and tearing her clothes off (without, you know, really tearing them) is something that she’ll like in the proper context.

    Reply
  164. arkizzle says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Worlord, in fact that isn’t what Takuan suggested really, it was that on a message board, you only have your comments. We are not privvy to the machinations of your thoughts, or indeed, how you act in day-to-day life. We can only respond to what you type.

    And she also made it pretty clear that it wasn’t hypocrisy in her opinion, and posed the question of what it might be.

    Reply
  165. Takuan says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:10 pm

    I believe have seen enough. “worlord” has malign intent.

    Reply
  166. Takuan says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    as St.Frank wrote:

    What’s the ugliest
    Part of your body?
    What’s the ugliest
    Part of your body?
    Some say your nose
    Some say your toes
    (I think it’s your mind)
    But I think it’s YOUR MIND
    (Your mind)
    I think it’s your mind, woo woo

    ALL YOUR CHILDREN ARE POOR
    UNFORTUNATE VICTIMS OF
    SYSTEMS BEYOND THEIR CONTROL
    A PLAGUE UPON YOUR IGNORANCE & THE GRAY
    DESPAIR OF YOUR UGLY LIFE

    Where did Annie go
    When she went to town?
    Who are all those creeps
    That she brings around?

    ALL YOUR CHILDREN ARE POOR
    UNFORTUNATE VICTIMS OF LIES YOU BELIEVE
    A PLAGUE UPON YOUR IGNORANCE THAT KEEPS
    THE YOUNG FROM THE TRUTH THEY DESERVE . . .

    Reply
  167. Anonymous says:
    June 24, 2009 at 9:04 pm

    I know this thread is a bit long in the tooth, but I wanted to comment as someone who transitioned more than 10 years ago and lives a pretty stealthy life.

    I have friends who’ve only ever met me as a woman, known me as a woman, seen me in all manner of social situations, levels (or not) of attire, and so on. All it takes to change how they interact with me, or what they think of me, is for them to discover my secret past.

    My experience is that the more I indulge their questions, the more their internal perception of me changes. People who know about my past don’t include me in the short list of “girl friends” when it comes time for “girl stuff” the way they did before they found out. Asking us these questions comes with a price for both parties.

    Reply
  168. kega says:
    April 17, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    wow…that was interesting. I can understand her intolerance for certain questions. I am sure they make her feel uncomfortable, but on the other hand, it is something that is not as common as being a different race or whatever. I know that I would have a lot of questions to ask, but I doubt I would ask the person unless they are a close friend of mine.

    Reply
  169. Takuan says:
    March 25, 2008 at 10:49 am

    *sigh*… you mammals have all the fun….

    Reply
  170. WorLord says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    @Elorin:

    “I’ve never felt that manners and politeness were unreasonable, although they are certainly arbitrary.”

    I don’t see that the two can coexist without running at cross purposes. I’ve always seen Arbitrary as something about as far from Reason as it gets.

    My only problem with this whole idea, really, is that people are different and hold different things to be offensive or uncomfortable. It makes the idea of figuring out what is or is not (objectively) rude an impossible game with moving goalposts.

    It also makes me understand the anger trans people have a little less. If everyone knows that these rules are arbitrary and get crafted on the sly to deal with new situations, than certainly, it goes without saying that it is going to take the rest of the culture some time to catch up with a particular corner of manners.

    But that’s a whole bunch of junk I have to think about on my own. Thank you for taking my thoughts seriously and giving a considered and well-thought out reply (or two). It has cleared some things up.

    Reply
  171. WorLord says:
    March 26, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    - Assuming that everyone acts (or CAN act) on their beliefs is silly.

    – Equating that inaction with not really holding the belief is also silly.

    That I have to actually state as much, or make the distinction between abstract thought and concrete action is, like, silly *squared*. Way above the FDA recommended amount of silly.

    The manners thing was enlightening. Hope everyone has a great day.

    Reply
  172. scottfree says:
    March 26, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Wow, Takuan. I have that album on vinyl,complete with St Peppers cutouts. I thought it was lost to history.

    All for trans rights, BTW.

    Reply
  173. Anonymous says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    I cannot believe that the first several comments on this post COMPLETELY missed the point of the video. Ugh!

    Reply
  174. WorLord says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    @TAKUAN: All I can do is assure you that I am very serious, and do not have malign intent. I have returned sarcasm with same, but I am earnest and serious in what I’ve been saying.

    Reply
  175. Xopher says:
    March 25, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Worlord, I think the point here is that there is no objective standard for politeness. In the absense of such a standard, we do the best we can to be accommodating of others’ wishes. That’s courtesy.

    Some things are beyond the pale. For example, my brother, who lives in California, is offended when someone who lives on the East Coast (like me) mentions being jetlagged. To avoid conflict, I try not to say so, but privately I think he’s being a jackass.

    I guess the way I was raised, I wouldn’t walk up to a total stranger with a cast on his arm and say “How did you break your arm? What happened? Was it your fault?” If, after not seeing a friend for a while I saw a cast, and I hadn’t heard anything about an accident, I’d probably say “Good heavens, what happened?”

    My point is: don’t presume intimacy that doesn’t exist. Just because you can tell someone has a story to tell doesn’t mean it’s OK to ask them to tell it.

    There are no perfect analogies (that’s what makes them analogies). TG is something a lot of people are curious about, partly because even plausible analogies to it are hard to find. But that, my friend, is why the gods gave us Google.

    Reply

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