WITCH! GET OUT OF MY SOUL!!!!

I think that’s a gross generalization.

Danzig was originally a punk musician, with his band the Misfits, and if you can find nationalist imagery there, please point it out. I don’t see if. If you’d mentioned Infester, Graveland, Burzum, Darkthrone, Absurd or Gontyna Kry, then I’d say you have a point.

I think a lot of metal is like Slayer and Motorhead, both of whom used deathsheads and other Nazi imagery, just like Judas Priest. They’re not endorsing anything. They’re singing about it because they’re obsessed with murder, darkness, horror, natural selection, war, mayhem and sodomy.

Burroughs was too, and I’ve never encountered anything racist in his work. Maybe I don’t know where to look. Can you post some pointers?

♫ One of these things is not like the others ♫

T,

I was just trying to separate the combatants.

“War and Sodomy” is a refrain by a band named Weltmacht who are not NSBM but use some Nazi iconography, interspersed with Satanic imagery and praise of sodomy.

Then there is the genius rant of Paul Ledney…well, I can’t post it here, so google “paul ledney” “Rip the sacred flesh” and you’ll find the text.

Metal is, in fact, quite enamored of sodomy, and I’ll leave that up to your interpretation. From the band Sodom, to Morbid Angel’s praise of the act on “Blessed Are the Sick,” to Blood’s “Sodomize the Weak,” the list goes on!

You have a lot more patience and dedication to this site’s forums than I would, were I in your shoes.

I had the word “cryptoracists” stuck in my head for about a solid day after my previous engagement in this thread. It’s just a fun word to say, and I imagine an entire, absurd culture attached to the word.

Anthropologists might discover one of their long-forgotten temples in some wild, Scandinavian place, and spend years decoding their crabby little runic glyphs. Finally, one breathless afternoon, a red-eyed researcher bursts from his chambers. “Eureka! I’ve decoded their messages!”

“What do they say?” the people would ask. In the hush that follows, the researcher would psychologically hit that brick wall of underwhelming reality as he flatly recites from the paper, “Honkys rule, n*gg*rs drool.”

The moment that follows this announcement would be the epitome of the phrase, “awkward silence.” He might then point at the paper and softly say, “That… that’s what it says.” Then return quietly to his chambers.

Damn those cryptoracists!

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/enso/zen/-/pv_design_prod/id_23716963/p_storeid.189325939/pNo_189325939

Or right. sure. Nobody fools you.

#60 posted by Conservationist
“You’re telling me that “heritage” is racism? I am thoroughly offended.”

Ywn. bvsly tht’s nt wht sd, trll.

nywys, g bck t whtvr y wr dng bfr rlty ntrdd.

Why are you grinding this particular axe? Step up to the line, propose your toast and hurl your glass, we’re listening and it won’t hurt the fireplace.

But don’t you find that the tinfoil blocks the warning signal? We need to get R & D on that one. Perhaps a sharp wasabi odor.

T,

Alt + 14(number pad) = ♫

There’s a whole universe of symbols in Alt + …

There comes a time in a man’s life when he must acknowledge that, whether he’s right or whether he’s wrong, he’s posted way too many comments in a single thread. I think, for you, that time is now. Nobody is going to stop you from posting in this aging thread, but you’re shredding your own credibility in future discussions.

on the morrow

The song “Bug Powder Dust” by Bomb The Bass

I prefer the Kruder and Dorfmeister Remix of the song, but the original is catchy too. Both can be found on youtube.

f y’r Wht, y hv spcl rspnsblty t rprsnt yr rc bcs thr r s mny tht r wrkng t bltrt y.

Pt p fght. Dn’t g qtly t th grv. Dn’t b frd f th mncl Gncdlsts (lk hnskll) bt d b frd f gncd. B vry frd.

Anyways, Not everything they sell is racist. There’s a lot of drug culture stuff, big daddy, etc. But all of that is common with white supremacists. It’s a mashup of punk, skinheads, metal, goth, etc. These aren’t exactly the brightest or most original people.

The percentage of specifically Nazi and Aryan Nation icons is way too high to be coincidental. Nobody but white supremacists is really into many of the specific icons they’re selling, and to find them all in once place is a dead giveaway.

For example, an ordinary head shop might have some ravens and spooky gothic crap on it. But they wouldn’t name them “Huginn and Muninn” which are associated with Nazi mythology and wankery.

Here’s a partial list of racist images they sell:

Thor’s Hammer. One of the most common Nazi icons. Not really interesting otherwise. They sell several.
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/ThorsHammer.asp

White power fist:
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/racist_aryan_fist.asp

lots of Iron Cross:
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/neo-nazi_iron-cross.asp

Several variations of the Crosstar:
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/groups_nationalist_crosstar.asp

Several variations of Aryan Nations iconography worked into designs:
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/groups_aryan_nations.asp

Lots of Wolf’s Hook, Dopplehaken in designs:
http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/Wolfsangel.asp

etc. There’s a lot more for anyone to see.

And for anyone who isn’t aware, it’s actually a pretty widespread subculture in many parts of America and Europe. Something like 10% of the prison population is Aryan Brotherhood. Wherever there are ignorant drug addicts living in post labor towns, like the rust belt, you’ll find plenty of them.

They’re also very cryptic because they have to be. They want to be recognized by each other, but don’t want their asses kicked constantly whenever they’re away from the gang.

Now that that’s settled, I saw a handful of shirts on there that piqued my interest, most notably the Star Trek “Mirror Mirror” Galactic Empire insignia. That’s the sort of badassery that only fellow geeks will fully enjoy.

Overall you seem to be missing the point. Sure, iconography can be infinitely interpreted. You keep making that point which isn’t in dispute.

The point is that if a group chooses a large number of symbols, including writers, icons, and themes, all associated with racism by known racist groups, then it’s almost certainly racism. It’s totally improbable all of this stuff linked to racism was chosen randomly. there’s too much of it, and the ties to racism are too strong, for it all to be random.

Someone’s ignorance of the symbols of racist groups, or different interpretations of them, doesn’t change the fact they use them.

“The point is, a Celtic cross or a Thor’s hammer doesn’t automatically become the property of the skinhead Nazi racists…”

They don’t “own” it and you can’t “cede” it to them. That’s entirely the wrong frame of mind. I really couldn’t care less about thor’s hammer and such. t’s lt f wnkry.

Having said that, people should be more aware of these groups, which are widespread among disaffected whites in depressed labor areas and urban areas. They use these symbols as their banners, as a language to communicate. To anyone who has looked into the issues (did you read the links?) that’s a fact. They are code for white supremacists.

On Asatru:

Asatru is a neopagan religion, AND it’s a religious front group for white supremacists. Just as for example Scientology is a religion for some sincere goofballs, and it’s a cult designed to exploit and indoctrinate and then exert influence on them. It’s a structure for organization and indoctrination, with tax benefits.

You may notice that many Asatru sites mention genetics frequently. “Heritage” is another code word frequently used by racists with specific meaning. I.e. it’s a religion for Germanic people. It’s often used in the South as code for racism.

http://www.asatru.org/

“Ásatrú is an Ancestoral religion it gives you a sense of belonging. Genealogy is the path where you acquire insight about the experience of your ancestors. How they lived, the land where they came from or how much luck came to you through them. It is your Heritage.”"

On Lovecract, and Poe, I think you need to research them further. You’re apparently unaware of several decades of racist criticism. Have you googled their names + racism? Regardless, there’s no doubt racist groups themselves believe them to have been racists.

“I’m certainly not giving the Aryan Nation every bit of writing associated with victimization …”

Again, you seem to think you can “give” them that. The fact is they already use them as racist material. The fact is both Lovecraft and Poe were virulent racists and xenophobes in their own lives. Lovecraft hated the multiculturalism of NYC. Poe was pro-slavery and his black characters reflected that. That’s well documented.

Of course someone else can read whatever they want into it. But one shouldn’t be ignorant of the fact they personally were racists, and both rather mentally unstable also.

“If Edvard Munch was seen as the epitome of “degenerate art,” why would skinheads wear shirts with his images on them?”

Ever heard of crass irony in a subculture? White supremacists are full of contradictions. Munch particularly is important because the Nazis focused on him as a white degenerate blue blood addicted to drugs. What are white supremacists today? Poor white lower class drug addicts with a lot of envy for the elites.

They hate the rich and elites, yet they want to be rich. They aspire to “racial purity” and “high culture” and yet they’re often junkies and real losers. They claim they’re the best specifically because they’re on the lowest rungs of society. This is typical in many subcultures.

“I have a real problem with the idea that a bunch of raucous anti-intellectual skinheads are into reading subtext in stories written by a shy, socially backward weirdo (I mean that in the nicest possible way) who married a Jew.”

Then you probably don’t know any skinheads and white supremacists. Most of them are shy, backwards, chronically insecure, kids who then find identity and strength through a group with a simplistic racial ideology. Whether or not they’ve actually read Lovecraft or Poe is entirely beside the point. They’re an oral story telling culture, and increasingly a web based culture, which thrives on allegory. Again, anyone expressing disbelief that racists lack an intellectually rigorous ideology… is totally missing the point.

“Big Daddy Roth-style art did not come out of the rural South; it came out of the Southern California hotrod scene.”

Hotrod culture was a part of southern CA suburban and rural all-white culture. Much of SoCal was in the 50′s undeveloped and even farm land. LA proper was much smaller, and much of today’s sprawl was then rural. Not to say all were racists, but all were originally white. It’s also where the Hells Angels and such racist groups came from. Von Dutch aka Kenny Howard, considered to be the father of the movement, was an extreme racist.

Different painting. There was a lot of absinthe drinking at that time. Absinthe was the drink of the Bohemians, which is what most modernist painters were.

The painting of absinthe drinkers I’m referring to was painted by Munche, and was specifically critiqued in Julius Lanbehn’s proto-Nazi manifesto: Rembrandt als Erzieher (“Rembrandt as Teacher”) which is one of the “bibles” for white racists.

Strephon Taylor

Oh, you ain’t got to prove that to me, hon; if I weren’t already convinced Obama is the best candidate for that job already that speech was the clincher. Or, as John Stewart pointed out agog, “A presidential candidate just talked to the American people as though they were adults.” After seven-plus years of people who at least preach of dealing in moral absolutes (but spend every moment away from the public eye acting every bit the sheisty bastards they paint their enemies as), a palpable sense of duty, quiet dignity and confidence and, dare we think it possible of the highest office in the land, humility in the face of the multitudes of ideas and perspectives in this country alone, much less internationally, would be a refreshing change, to say nothing of everything else he brings to the table.

And look, I managed to be positive about something without bagging on his competition. Isn’t that nice when things can stand on their own merits without needing to tear down to look better? Shouldn’t we deserve that pride more often?

Wow, we have gotten very, very far from Mugwump Bug Poison.