Ford dealership uses bigoted radio ads to sell cars

Kieffe and Sons, a Ford dealership in Mojave, California, has a new radio ad in which they try to court Christian car buyers by announcing that they believe that non-Christians in America should "sit down and shut up."
["Did you know that there are people in this country who want prayer out of schools, "Under God" out of the Pledge, and "In God We Trust" to be taken off our money?"]

"But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians, who believe in God, we at Kieffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is America folks, it's called free speech. None of us at Kieffe & Sons Ford is afraid to speak out. Kieffe & Sons Ford on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don't see you today, by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow."

Link (via Pharyngula)


  1. But wait, isn’t the idea of free speach that people are allowed to express any opinion, even the opinion “I don’t believe in God” or “I believe in God, but I still don’t want him in school”…

  2. I love the pairing of “sit down & shut up” in the same breath as “it’s called free speech”.

  3. I’m pretty sure that “believing in God” and “Being a Christian” are not necessarily the same thing. Also, I’m not sure how this is supposed to sell cars. But I guess they can say whatever they want.

  4. I wonder if they’d consider “Eat shit and die” free speech? How about “May Kali devour your heart”?

    I hope the grace of God sends them a nice tornado or earthquake and wipes their business off the map. Here’s your chance, Christian God, to show your quality. Have you learned ANYTHING since Jericho? I say squash ’em.

  5. As an atheist, I like it. In fact, I want to walk in there with a fat wad of my evil, godless money to see if these Christian nutbags have the conviction and faith to not sell me a car.

    Then again, there’s a pretty good chance I’d be stuck with a freakin’ Ford.

  6. Well, at least they’re honest about their bigotry.

    I still can’t figure out how people like that reconcile their beliefs about school prayer, “Under God”, and “In God We Trust” with the First Amendment.

    My guess is, they just ignore the Amendment.

  7. “… no practical definition of freedom would be completely without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.” – Terry Pratchett, Going Postal.

    I love that quote.

    The Ford Dealership has every right to spout off with their religious and political views. Then, they get to excercise their right to accept the consequences. That would involve me taking my business to a dealership that’s more interested in selling me a quality vehicle at a fair price – rather than boring me with rhetoric.

  8. Belief in God = Christian?
    Christian = “Sit down and shut up”?
    “Sit down and shut up” = Free speech?

    Why not just say “If you don’t believe in Jesus, go fuck yourself. Otherwise–buy a Ford!”

  9. OK, having thought for a couple of minutes, definitely a tornado, not an earthquake. Tornados can pick out just one home or business and destroy it, leaving others untouched. Earthquakes, not so much. I don’t want to bring down wrath on the whole area just because of one freakin’ loony toon.

    I’d really like to ask them if they favor the “traditional Pledge of Allegiance” or the “altered version.” I bet most people don’t realize that the altered version is the one WITH the “under God” in it.

  10. Actually, I think this guy is just setting himself up for the inevitable collapse most small car dealerships will face with the economy and the price of gas being what they are.

    Now, when his business folds, he can blame it all on Christian persecution.


  11. As a Roman Catholic, I find this ad offensive and wrong on so many levels.

    Those that believe in God are not only the Christians.

    86% is disingenuous, did they ask every single person in America? Where do they get their facts?

  12. I really cannot conceive of a more bankrupt theology than one which is used to sell automobiles. Make me want to run out and sell my T-bird.

  13. This is actually a good thing!
    Ford, like the other US manufacturers, simply has too many dealers!
    It’s not so easy to reduce the number of dealerships, since most are franchises, and most franchise laws are state laws that are designed to protect the franchisee, which in this case is the dealer!
    Now this dealer just gave Ford a defensible “out” of the franchise agreement!

  14. anyone remember:

    my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord
    he is driving down the alley in a green and yellow ford
    he has one hand on the throttle and
    another on a bottle of
    pabst blue ribbon beeeeeeeer

  15. They basically just told 14% of their potential customers to go pound sand. How fortunate for them that they have so much excess business that they can turn away sales for the selfish indulgence of insulting strangers.
    Interesting fact: Ford is based in Dearborn, MI. Dearborn is the center of the largest population of people of Middle Eastern extraction outside of the Middle East. Something like 7% – 10% of the 2.2 million people in Greater Detroit. Lots of them are Chaldean Christians, but many are Muslims. It wouldn’t surprise me to find that Dearborn has more Muslims per capita than any other major city in the US. And lots and lots of them work for Ford.

  16. @#13: I can tell you three types of stations that’d play it. Conservative Talk Radio, Christian radio, and Country and Western.

    Frankly I think his “Free speech” statement is false, the attitude “sit down and shut up” and tough shit if you’re offended reflects hate speech not free speech. And hate speech isn’t protected by the law. Where’s the ACLU to nail these assholes to the wall.

    It’s people like that that make people like me loathe anyone professing to be a Christian, until their actions prove them worthy of anything else.

  17. I guess that answers the age-old question: WWJD?

    (What would Jesus drive?)

  18. JSG, they got 86% from either this right-wing email forward or this one. The second one also includes “sit down and shut up” phrasing. I think there’s also one that purports to be written by Andy Rooney that has essentially the same phrasing.

    They’ve told more than 14% to go pound sand, too. Plenty of people who do believe in God will find this offensive. Might work in the Bible Belt, but in CA? I’m suspicious.

  19. @19: Good point. By far the majority of Christians are tolerant people. Would they want to be seen doing business with people who advertise themselves as bigots?
    Get ready for the big Going out of Business sale at Keiffe and Sons.

  20. One of the greatest gifts of truly understanding the notion of free speech is being neither offended nor particularly interested when someone exercises their right to say something inflammatory. Their speech is, after all, free. And you likely understand by this point that, except in rare cases, you get what you pay for.

  21. Just as Bin Laden doesn’t speak for most Muslims, nitwits like this don’t speak for Christians.

    I agree Reluctant Paladin. This kind of talk has consequences, and the right to speak comes with the responsibility to face the music.

    I also agree with the previous comment that this is about desperation during an economic downturn that will wipe out many car dealerships. What on earth will all those slicked-back hair salesmen do now for a living.

  22. One again showing you don’t have to be the brightest of bulbs to sell cars or advertise.

    I can believe 86% of Americans believe in God. Of course, that doesn’t mean they’re CHRISTIAN, or in other way relgious at all. Sigh.

    86% of Americans believe in God
    Christians believe in God
    Ergo, 86% of Americans are Christians.

    But then again, using your “free speech” to tell people to “sit down and shut up” speaks the same volumes as that previous leap in logic.

  23. Keiffe and Sons indicates here that they know who remains in the market demographic for fuel hungry SUV’s and trucks that Ford sells.

    Very canny advertising.

  24. About the 86% thing, i bet it comes from how many people say they are christian on census/whatever forms, which is a VERY different thing to whether they believe in god or not.

    In the UK 2001 census, 71.75% claim to be christian. yet out of my wide family and everyone i know/work with i’d say that figure looks about right, but actual belief in god down as 15% or less…

    A lot of people will say they’re christian out of sheer force of habit or just to not cause a fuss…

  25. ROSSINDETROIT 14: While I don’t at all contest your point here, I feel I must point out that ‘per capita’ means ‘for each head’, and so the number of Muslims per capita can never be more than one, even in a 100% Muslim place.

    HollywoodBob 16; Jake0748 18: Fight that tendency. It’s a prejudice. As a secularly-raised neoPagan, I had plenty of negative ideas about Christians…until I really got to know some. Remember that the quiet, courteous ones generally don’t self-identify right away (that’s changing now that assholes like this one are giving Christianity a bad name more and more).

    I imagine they, hearing sentiments like yours in these two posts, must feel about how I feel when Europeans talk about how rotten “the Americans” are. They mean George and Dick and Condi and all their loathsome breed, of course, and I quite sympathize, but I still feel like saying wait wait wait, we’re not all like that!

    Caroline 19: Hear, hear.

    ROSSINDETROIT 20: Amen, insh’Allah, aché, so mote it be.

    AirPillo 21: I disagree. We don’t have a right not to be offended, but we certainly have a right to take offense. There’s nothing about free speech that requires us to refrain from objecting, or even to be disinterested. We mustn’t advocate suppressing or censoring them (though we have the freedom to advocate those things, they’re not consistent with a belief in free speech), but that doesn’t take away our rights, among which are the right to boycott and censure them.

    On the other hand, “Free speech: you get what you pay for” is a great line, which I fully intend to steal and apply widely!

  26. I’m contacting Ford to find out what they think about this.

    Free speech is one thing, but bigoted actions by a company are certainly quite another. I thought we were (mostly) past the whole “No Jews, No Blacks” kind of business world.

    If I don’t get a good answer from Ford, I’ll boycott the company for a few years. The only real God in the United States is the all mighty dollar.

  27. im atheist now, but even when i was a christian i didnt think prayer should be in schools, god on my money, or my religion to be forced upon others in any way shape or form. what a cock-bite.

  28. I believe in God but I am not a Christian. Although I think Christ was on to something.

  29. Xopher, of course you are right. I do know many kind and decent Christians. I guess what I meant to say is that the LOUDEST “Christians” these days seem to be bigoted, narrow minded, etc.

  30. Good for them, flexing their right to free speech. I always find it useful to find out exactly who I am dealing with, before I mistakenly buy a car from them.

    Now, I’ll do some free speech of my own and ask Ford corporate if they agree with them, and if not, why these shlubs still have a franchise?

  31. Jake0748: Very true. So are the loudest everything!

    I remember a story about a gathering I did not attend, followed by a certain woman I won’t name attaching herself to a party of people going out to dinner. When they got to the restaurant she announced “we want a separate table for the vegetarians so we won’t have to watch you people eating dead animals.

    Had I been there, I’d’ve said “Well, we’re NOT going to have a separate table for all the vegetarians, because I’m going to sit with the polite people!”

  32. yes @28; What is the official position of the Ford Motor Corporation ion this matter? Will it be as aggressively pursued as the possibly unauthorized use of Ford Mustang images were in an enthusiast’s calendar?

    Does the law of jurisdiction in this case classify this attack on non-self-declared “christians” as hate speech?
    Do any other “christian” groups wish to litigate over this co-option of their “brand”?

  33. Though this sounds fantastically ignorant, I can’t say that it’s hate speech, but undoubtedly the advertisers believe their preaching to a choir of like-minded a-holes. It’s certainly their right.

    Just as it’s the right of Janeane Garofalo to call everyone who votes for Bush a “retard” on Air America. This less than elegant use of the word “retard” seems to be a regular part of Ms. Garofalo’s vocabulary, and it also makes her sound fantastically ignorant, and I’m sure she believes she’s preaching to a choir of like-minded a-holes as well.

    But it aint hate speech. I don’t know the legal definition of hate speech, but what I imagine might be a reasonable definition would involve the implication of violence, or the incitement of violence in some shape or form. You can say all the us’s and thems you want to, and I think the key word is “bigoted” here. The Ford dealership is acting in just as bigoted a fashion as Ms. Garofalo.

    I don’t think either kind of bigotry is especially rare. I’m sure you could find many other instances of comically ignorant statements made on both the left and the right to promote whatever their agenda happens to be, be it to sell cars or radio advertising space, and it’s safer to make these extreme statements when you believe your among friends you believe to be like-minded a-holes.

    It’s a gimme that Boing Boing for the most part is a site that appeals to lefties. Thus this Ford Dealership quote has been taken out of its safe haven of like-minded a-holes and has been planted into a hive of differing like-minded folks, be they a-hole or otherwise, and the reaction is fantastically disproportionate to the quality of the indiscretion.

  34. I make frequent trips to the Eastern Sierra, passing through Mojave each time. From now on I’m not stopping there for fuel or food; I’ll get it either back in Palmdale or I’ll wait till I hit Lone Pine. Will this effect the whole town? Sure, but I don’t care. When they run this douche bag out of town I’ll start spending money in that town again. I can’t just say that I’ll never buy a car at this dealership, because there’s no way on gods green earth that I would *ever* buy a Ford.

  35. Boba Fett Diop 33: Huh. I always thought Toyotas seemed more Buddhist. Live and learn.

    Though of course it’s entirely possible to be both.

  36. Since they reference free speech, I’d like to point out that all those who find this offensive, should they live nearby should by all means go down to the dealership, ask to see the owner, and tell him to fuck himself. Ideally, don’t even tell him why. Let him figure out for himself why three people today drove up, said “Fuck You” to his face and left.

  37. Jed: I assume you’re objecting to Garofalo’s use of the politically-incorrect term ‘retard’, and not to the very well-founded assumption that anyone who voted for him in 2004 is stupid.

  38. The ACLU would laugh at anyone suggesting that they sue the radio station, or the Ford dealership. despite right wing propaganda, the ACLU’s suits around religion have involved actual acts of discrimination, or government sponsored religious conduct in a setting where people were forced to either participate, or get noticed for not participating.

    Once gas hist $10 a gallon, I’ll be living in a city, and saving vast amounts by not owning a car.

  39. Might I make a small plug for one Christian group. I live among Mennonites. My wife, daughter and I live in an apartment complex owned and operated by Mennonites, who do not care that we identify ourselves as neo-pagans, who do not proselytize to us and who charge us a reduced rent in a high rent area (Evanston,IL). These people live the life they preach about – they are similar in a lot of ways to the Catholic Workers, quite granola – which suits us fine – we’re the same way, just not into religion. So if there is one group of Christians who are not bigoted, who are about peace and justice, who have bumper stickers on their cars (no horse and buggy here) that say “poverty and homelessness are moral issues”, that would be the Mennonites! They could inspire a reggae song!

  40. good grief. it really sounds like they’ve been playing grand theft auto waaaay too much (and been listening to ‘the weasel’).

  41. If only every bigot was as open as honest so we knew to avoid all of their business so that we could slowly choke them out financially.

  42. Ford has very rigorous standards for affiliate advertising. I have no doubt that this violates a number of rules and that the dealer will be hearing about it right away. It’s a pretty serious violation of their contract as a dealer to disparage any group in an ad.
    Regarding Mennonites, they’re in my family background and yes, they do walk the walk. They are one group that could convert by example if more people saw the dedication of their whole lives to their beliefs.

  43. Jesus was a pretty adamant opponent of the use of religion for selling merchandise, not to mention someone who made an effort to include marginalized people.

    Sounds like these guys might actually want to read the Bible sometime.

  44. @ #36 Jed Alexander: Thus this Ford Dealership quote has been taken out of its safe haven of like-minded a-holes and has been planted into a hive of differing like-minded folks, be they a-hole or otherwise, and the reaction is fantastically disproportionate to the quality of the indiscretion.

    That’s a pretty facile observation, Jed. Save for some isolated remarks, many of which I take for camp, most of the reactions here have been fairly level-headed. Since you’re so fond of role-reversal, were the tables turned and a conservative message board was discussing a car dealership that was willing to do business with everyone but Christians, do you honestly believe their discussion would be nearly as calm, pragmatic and light-hearted as this one has been? I’m sorry, but that seems a stretch to me.

    Maybe BB just isn’t as virulently lefty as an analogous right-wing discussion might be, or maybe it’s that with the perspective that tends to lend to a lefternly bent (say that five times fast) comes a quiet, dignified assurance in one’s opinions, a balance between confidence and humility shared by those of faith who needn’t prosyletize to convince themselves of the rightness of their beliefs. Obviously, no one claims to be perfect (that’s where that humility comes in), as the speech tics of those like Janeane Garofaolo prove (though she’d be perfect for me ;9 ). Those on the opposite side of the spectrum might acknowledge their fallibility from time to time if they expect to be taken seriously.

  45. This car dealer probably got his figures from the last US Census, where 78% of adult respondents identified themselves as “Christian”. Throw in the other two major monotheistic religions (who, presumably, believe in God) and the percentage rises to 86% who believe in God. So I don’t think the numbers cited in the ad are that far off.

    How can one think that the owner of this dealership is one the “loudest” Christians? His ad aired on a small town local radio station, in the middle of nowhere Mojave, CA (I spent a lonely night there years ago and can attest that it is indeed pretty much in the middle of nowhere.) If this hadn’t been been posted here, maybe a few thousand people total would have ever heard the actual ad.

    The reason you may think he’s one of the “loudest” Christians is because boingboing rarely, if ever, posts positive stories about Christianity. (That’s fine. The owners of this site can post whatever stories they like. f thy wnt t pst 30 lnks n th lst mnth bt nw bk n f thm thrd, thy cn d tht t.)

    There are literally hundreds of millions of Christians who are tolerant, loving, giving human beings, but it’s only the crazy ones that make the news.

    I find it fascinating that many of the same people who rightly dismiss the actions of a small number of Muslim zealots as not being representative of Islam somehow believe that the small number of Christian zealots *are* representative of all Christianity.

  46. I take issue with any attempt to characterize BB as “lefty” or “rightist” etc. Not only is labeling lazy and an enemy of truth, I do not think this kind of thinking does justice to this forum of ideas.

    I see BB as ceiling and floor, Heaven and Earth perhaps. When real evil walks it, let the sky fall upon it and the ground reach up, grasp its ankles and pull it down.

  47. The bigot is selling Fords using Christian faux persecution propaganda. Ford then uses that money to advertise in gay/lesbian publications and support groups like PFLAG, which makes Christian groups like American Family Association very irate. I am amused.

  48. The idea that freedom of speech means you get to be a jerk is something I expect to encounter on really immature online forums. Sure you have the legal right to do it, but you’re still being a jerk.

  49. XPHR: Wht bjct t s Grfl’s nblty t rtclt rl rgmnt nd dpndncy n grd schl pjrtvs, nt sm PC d bt whch wrds r k t s nd whch rn’t. Wrds dn’t hv pnns.

    s fr cllng mr thn 50% f th vtng ppltn “stpd”–tht’s bt s sfl s cllng thm “rtrdd”. t’s chp sht.

    k, y wr tryng t b fnny. S wr th gys frm th cr dlrshp. sng blck nd wht lngg s rlly pr wy t cnvnc ppl tht y’r rgmnt s th rght n. Bt gn, ths sn’t frm md t ppl wh dsgr wth y..

    Whn y sy smthng lk ths, t’s n mr nlghtnng thn: chclt c crm s mch bttr thn vnll. t’s nt clvr, t’s ntllctlly lzy.

  50. Weird. Apparently this guy hasn’t realized that there are Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and non-denominational theists in America. On behalf of my fellow religiously active, politically secular Jews, I’d like to remind him of our existence.

  51. LICENSE FARM: “fantastically disproportionate to the quality of the indiscretion” isn’t really fair. I think I got carried away with how nice these words sounded together without more consideration for what they were saying. This is in part the danger of message boards, but I essentially agree with what you’re saying.

    And I realize Gorafalo is a comedian, but she’s on an opinion show, and I think her use of the word “retard” is more than a speech tic. And I don’t want to get too sidetracked here, but I do think her dependancy on this word makes her sound less articulate than she would probably like people to think of her as being.

  52. JED@55:

    Blog Commenting, by design, is an intellectually lazy excersize, a diversion.

    OMG. someone is WRONG on the internet….Resisting that urge to correct is simply, useless, as I have proven by doing exactly what I criticize, thus overloading my irony circuit and!!))**&^^%$$$

  53. I was amazed to see my own little corner of the world on BoingBoing this morning (we’re from Lancaster, a bit south of Mojave, but in the same geographic area known as the Antelope Valley).

    My fiancee’s response to Kieffe and Sons really poor advertising: “They’ve just now noticed?”

    My own: “The Antelope Valley is one of the most God-Forsaken places on Earth – how people there insist in believing in him is completely beyond me.”

    Honestly though, Kieffe and Sons have never made an ad that bad before. They’re always on the edge in an “Old man completely out of touch with reality” sorta way, but never this outright crazy before.

  54. ROBOTON: Ok, this is hopefully my last one:

    I wasn’t saying that people should never make a casual remark on a blog or a message board, I was using this person’s remark to illustrate an idea, but I maybe should have said something to the effect of–“it’s fine to make this sort of remark but this is what I think of the quality of these kinds of remarks in general…” but you know, in the spirit of what you’re saying about the casual nature of blogs and message boards–it’s not an essay, it’s an opinion or idea expressed in a particular moment.

    I also don’t think that there’s anything inherently intellectually lazy about commenting on a message board–I think that when they’re any fun at all, they get people to think and argue in a healthy way, and it’s great that people disagree or find holes in my arguments–I’d like to think that that’s part of the purpose of these things. It helps me to make better arguments and helps me to give more thought to my arguments.

  55. Sitting down and shutting up (for at least an hour once a week) is exactly all that is required of ‘faithful’ Christians.

    Oh the irony.


    [“Did you know that there are people in this country who want Ford out of schools, “Under Ford” out of the Pledge, and “In Ford We Trust” to be taken off our money?”]

    “But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in Ford? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Fordians, who believe in Ford, we at Keiffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don’t tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that’s tough, this is Fordidonia folks, it’s called free speech. None of us at Keiffe & Sons Gods is afraid to speak out. Keiffe & Sons Gods on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don’t see you today, by the grace of Ford, we’ll be here tomorrow.”

  57. #57, jed alexander, i take it you are as bush supporter? tell me something,( and i know it’s a bit off topic) what do you think of your boy now? has he done even 1 good thing while in office? BTW, i think J.G. is correct. even though my mother and sister both are ‘retarded’.

  58. MINTPHRESH: actually I voted for Nader in 2000, so I’m one of THOSE people. But that’s, of course, another topic altogether.

    At any rate: trust me, Bush aint my boy.

  59. Thank you Boing Boing for leaving the door to the Argument Clinic unlocked so we could get our fix over the long holiday weekend. I don’t know what we’d do without you.

  60. hey, i love ralph! and i don’t buy for a second that the fact that we voted for him lost the race for uncle al. the fix was in from the start. just ask jeb and diebold!

  61. Edmond 50: Did you read this thread before posting? Look at my comment at 27, for example. We’re well aware that this guy doesn’t speak for the majority of Christians.

    GreatFrito 60: Maybe it should change its name to the “Lama Sabachthani” valley.

    Jed 61: If you value the discourse and give-and-take here, why is this post “hopefully” your last one? I for one hope you stay and discuss. You’re not a troll, you’ve been more polite than I have (though I really do have trouble fathoming what would have made any reasonably intelligent and fundamentally goodhearted person vote for the WPE in 2004, dismissing them as “stupid” outright WAS, as you perceived, intended as humor), and disagreement is the lifeblood of healthy discussion.

    MDHatter 62: That really contrasts sharply with what I hear in church every week (liberal church; they let Pagans sing in the choir). Not only is it not all that is required, they have to stand up and sing the hymns and respond to the psalms and do the Prayers of the People and so on…in fact they only really sit for the readings and the sermon, and total silence is only when they’re sitting (including right after the choir sings, which I’m just getting used to after years and years). I know you’re making a joke, but one with more truth in it would be funnier.

  62. Xopher:

    Because I gots to get off my lazy butt and get some work done! But it was fun.

  63. I’ll see your Jesus and raise you a Glock.

    A car dealership in the United States is offering a free handgun with every vehicle sold. Max Motors in Butler, Missouri, says sales have quadrupled since the start of the offer. Customers can choose between a gun or a $250 (£125) petrol card, but most so far have chosen the gun.

    BBC article

  64. Takuan@51: I take issue with any attempt to characterize BB as “lefty” or “rightist” etc. Not only is labeling lazy and an enemy of truth, I do not think this kind of thinking does justice to this forum of ideas.

    Well, BB consistently posts thread that hold freedom of speech as more important than freedom of idiocy, freedom of everything as more important than “I’ve got to surrender all my rights to be safe”, and freedom to tinker as more important than crazy copyright laws, DRM, surveilance, and so on.

    I think there’s enough consistency in the threads to say that BB does have a particular political flavor to it.

    Course, some people hold freedom from being labeled as more important than freedom to have a normal discussion that includes labels.

  65. At the risk of being cynical *and* terminally late to the party, may I point out that “over the top local ad picked up by blogs, generating complaints, and hitting the tag in the national media” is just the sort of strategy a no-budget small town business might use to drum up publicity and get folks from outside their usual market to hear about them?

    While it’s not QUITE true that there’s no such thing as bad publicity, I’m willing to bet this has a more positive then negative impact on them.

    Similar to the Missouri Ford dealership that recently got a bump into the national media for advertising the choice of either a free gas card or a free gun with every purchase. The owner was quoted as saying “Real Americans love their guns and go to church.”

    Here’s the url:

  66. (salute)(salute) “I relieve you!” “Acknowledged!” (salute)(salute)…. rather like the Archchancellor’s Keys – but with less snow and yelling.

    you know how it is; heaths to blast, Souls to Eat,

  67. I’d love to go in and ask if an atheist gets the same mileage as a Christian. I’m assuming Catholics get worse mileage than Protestants, what with all the guilt weighing them down and all.

  68. I think Jesus would call these car dealers a bunch of “money changers” and whip them off the lot.

  69. #79: That doesn’t really place BoingBoing on the left-right axis. If I was forced at gunpoint by a customer of Max Motors to assign a political label to BoingBoing, I’d say it has a libertarian cast to it, but it’s mostly centrist.

    Libertarians, as best as I can tell, are best represented as a second axis on the political spectrum. I’m not sure quite what sits on the other side of mainstream from Libertarian though. My snarky side suggests “sheep” but that’s an animal, not a political group.

  70. no practical definition of freedom would be completely without the freedom to take the consequences.

    This is the root of the problem. There are those who believe that freedom of religion means they get to practice their religion however they please without suffering any consequences. They feel they are privileged above all others.

    Since you’re so fond of role-reversal, were the tables turned and a conservative message board was discussing a car dealership that was willing to do business with everyone but Christians, do you honestly believe their discussion would be nearly as calm, pragmatic and light-hearted as this one has been?

    Probably about as calm and light-hearted as this kerfuffle has turned out to be. If by calm you mean swinging from the rafters and ululating “Death to the Islamofascists!”

  71. Did they cite their sources? No.

    I mean, if their statistic of 86% is actually referring to a survey conducted at 100 churches in the southern US over the Easter Long Weekend in 2006 then they’re not really making a solid argument are they? If their source is the 1984 US census they’re not really making their argument current are they?

    I did some research and I can’t find any source that supports their claim of 86%. I have included the two closest sources that I could find.

    The US Census Bureau provides all their data on religious affiliations (Which is an optional question. By law you are not required to answer). 2001 numbers suggest 159,506,000 Christian affiliated adult members of the US population out of 207,980,000 respondents to the optional question of religion. That’s 76.69% of respondents, not 86% as claimed. 7,740,000 classified themselves as ‘Other, non-christian’ almost 0.4%. Out of 287,985,000 total adult population (2002 figures) means that 72.2% of the population agreed to answer the question of religion and also classified themselves as ‘Christian’.

    The ad specified 86% as the stat. The actual stat for 2001 was 72.2% So they’re either grossly misinformed, using statistics from some other source (cite your source please!), or they are taking a very uneducated guess.

    If their source was from an older census, then their numbers are in a very sharp decline.


    Looking at other sources, only 70.9% of respondents believe that Jesus is the son of god.

    1) Jesus is a fictional character 17 (1.0%)
    2) Jesus probably existed, but he was not special 56 (3.3%)
    3) Jesus was an extraordinary person, but he was not a messenger of God 135 (8.0%)
    4) Jesus was one of many messengers or prophets of God 207 (12.2%)
    5) Jesus is the son of God 1198 (70.9%)
    6) I have no opinion 77 (4.6%)


  72. This dealership is only returning to its founder’s roots. Henry Ford donated thousands of dollars to the Nazis and was awarded the highest medal a non-German could be awarded by Adolf Hitler, prior to WWII. He continued to manufacture jeeps and trucks for them during the war, profiting from both sides while Americans were rationing everything for the war effort. FDR knew but was forced to look the other way.

    I am just surprised they didn’t throw in something anti-semetic to complete their “christian” bigotry. And where are the anti-muslim Ford ads? If they want us to get deeper into war to sell more trucks, they’d better get cracking.

    Garafalo should have said those who voted for bush were woefully misinformed and manipulated, but that doesn’t sound nearly as funny. Ironically, bush was the first to execute a mentally challenged person.

    Recently at an art opening, I was told I would sell more of my work if I did something “christian” or “patriotic.” Ford are simply latching onto what Fox news have (re-)discovered: That wrapping things in the cross and the flag, and coddling to people’s insecurites sells bigtime. They believe they have marginalized those of us who are outraged. Most of us are still driving SUVs, shopping at Wal-Mart and completely asleep at the wheel.

  73. Jed, try reading this version with “Jew” as the target, rather than non-believer, with “Jesus” replacing God, and think about whether you consider it more, less or equally offensive.

    Then think about whether any business would even consider making such a statement, even if they were in a 100% conservative Christian county, without fearing fatal repercussions for their business.

    In my experience, well-meaning theists are, for the most part, disproportionately tolerant, even indulgent toward overt bigotry against atheists. They spend more time defending what they see as an attack on religion by those of us who dare to be offended, than they do condemning the anti-atheist bigotry.

    And rarely do theists stand up and put their necks out to publicly reject, repudiate, let alone boycott or demonstrate alongside us against such sentiments.

    But to those of us who are the targets of such hate on a regular basis, it doesn’t hurt any less because it is still culturally acceptable.

  74. I’m kinda torn here.

    1) As a militant agnostic, who hates the unempathetic certainty of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris almost as much as that of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell… As someone who realizes that “science vs religion” is largely a false dichotomy… As someone who sees the separation between church and state as an essential part of a modern enlightened society (and who wonders why many religious people can’t see this)… As a Unitarian Universalist… As someone who is more scared of the widening “us versus them” gulf created by religious extremists who say scary and untrue things about liberals and atheists and the ACLU, and by militant atheists who say scary and untrue things about religious people (well, they’re true about SOME religious people), than I am [scared] of the scary things being said… I resent this ad because it widens the unnecessary and alienating and divisive “us versus them” gulf, making true understanding between religious people and non-religious people just a little bit harder.

    2) As someone who thinks that naturalism (be it atheism, pantheism, or deism, which are all pretty much non-supernatural when it comes to the daily workings of the universe and the people in it) is a more honest, enlightened, and elegant kind of worldview… I’m glad to see an a-hole further dirtying the Christian brand. Anything that makes Christians a little ashamed to be Christian, that makes young people (and old people, possibly) think twice about whether they want to be a Christian, that makes non-Christians think that Christianity is not really as wise as it claims to be… is serving what I see as the advancement of spiritual enlightenment.

    Yes, I realize these two things are somewhat opposed, in that I wish that religious people and non-religious people understood why the other side is not crazy, but I also don’t mind it when religion shows its crazy side because to be honest I don’t really like it that much personally.

    In any case, the people who made the ad, and the people who aired it, certainly had the right to do so, and they will now face the consequences. If their area has enough conservative Christians, they might actually get more business. I would almost say that there’s nothing we could or should actively do about it, except that (even in conservative areas) businesses can’t really say “Whites Only” or “No Jews” anymore, and this is a good thing. So I’m actually a little confused about just how far the law ought to go to prevent bigotry. Something to think about. In any case, we as individuals probably should act to prevent bigotry, and writing Ford, the dealership, and the radio station, would probably be a good place to start. Just make sure your letter disapproves of bigotry, not of Christianity. Because if you say that they did this because they are Christian, then you too are a bigot.

    Sometimes I want to try and start an naturalist-missionary service that goes door-to-door like Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses, not to convert people but to explain to them in a friendly and patient way (especially in conservative areas) why non-theism is valid, why society is not truly just until it stops systematically alienating non-believers, and how it is possible for non-theists to develop morals that are at least as good as the supposedly-Bible-based morals of Christians. (And maybe why ID is BS while we’re at it). Anyone want to sign up and help me spread the bright word?


    “You all remember, I suppose, that beautiful and inspired saying of Our Ford’s: History is bunk.”

    “Cleanliness is next to fordliness.”

    “God in the safe and Ford on the shelves.”

    – Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

  76. Wasn’t the Pledge of Allegiance created for a marketing campaign to sell flags?

    Actually, Xeoron, it was originally written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist, and promoted through a popular children’s magazine.

  77. Militant Evangelical Unitarian Universalists? Yeah, I could go with that. Will there be coffee served in the basement though?

  78. This guy (of the ad) is an asshole. I don’t support him or his bullshit bigotry.

    But on the other hand, I’ve met atheists that, when they get onto the subject of belief in god, are assholes to a similar degree.

    It’s almost as though the act of trying to tell people what they should believe makes you an asshole, regardless of what you are telling them. Why would it matter what someone else believes inside their own head? Unless someone else’s beliefs start impacting my life, I have no reason to tell them they are wrong.

    But yeah. The guy from the ad is not just an asshole, but a stupid asshole. It’s kind of remarkable.

    Also, it really doesn’t surprise me that this is a radio ad. Radio advertising is by far the lowest form of human communication. Even the ones that aren’t offensive for any particular reason, are horribly horribly offensive to me.

  79. A friend of mine works for a radio station with a primarily African American audience. He sells and writes advertising. I’ll show him this and see what he has to say about it. I don’t listen to enough radio (and no commercial radio at all) to know just how out of bounds this kind of ad is.

  80. There used to be this art car I would see all around Austin that was dark red with flames and emblazoned in gothic lettering on the back “The Anti-Chrysler”.

  81. Having worked for several car dealerships, including Ford, I got a good chuckle out of the ad. One of the observations I made during my career was: The bigger the cross, the bigger the liar. I had a sales manager who had a four inch gold crucifix that must have weighed ten pounds. He bragged about making his own parents pay full-gross when they bought a car from him. A lot of my fellow sales people would attend church to make sales contacts–when they were in private they would make fun of the ‘suckers’. I observed that the worst ‘snakes’ (salespeople who stole customers from fellow salespeople) were often the most pious.

    I wonder if Keiffe and Sons displays the 8 Commandments in their showroom? (They would have to omit the parts about bearing false witness and stealing–and edit out any reference to ‘coveting.’)

    I am sure that Mr. Keiffe’s faith is as large as his ample gut, and as thin as the grease used to slick back his hair.

  82. Assuming the 14% statistic is correct, that makes roughly one in seven Americans.

    Suppose you were the sales manager of Keiffe and Sons, and one of your sales staff told every seventh customer, “Fuck off. We don’t want your business.”

    If you had any sense, you’d fire the idiot. However, if you were to approve an ad like that one, you’d be the idiot.

  83. Oh. I’m so happy to see other people discussing this and agreeing with my thoughts on it. I found it incredibly offensive and just… rude, for lack of a better word.

    I actually heard this ad FOUR times on 93.5 The Quake. Horrible, horrible.

    I am very secure in the knowledge that I will not be buying a Ford anytime soon.
    I couldn’t believe their response when they were contacted about it. They basically brushed it off and told her (Anna Lemma of the blog) to buy a Ford.

    Maybe with more people complaining and contacting them they will do something though. I can only hope!

    I’m sorry for not getting the first sentence, everyone, but the transcript of it is what I remember.
    And holy crap, I can’t believe that it’s been downloaded 936 times. O___O That makes me very pleased.

    – Karen Peralta.

  84. it seems to me that all other Ford dealers now have a basis to claim damages from this “Keiffe”.

    If he has any brains at all (unlikely), a groveling apology should materialize soon. Of course it will be a lie, but the humiliation will go a long way.

  85. “But did you know that 86% of Iranians say they believe in Allah? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Muslims, who believe in Allah, we at Muhammad & Sons Ford wonder why we don’t tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that’s tough, this is Iran folks, it’s called free speech. None of us at Muhammad & Sons Ford is afraid to speak out. Muhammad & Sons Ford on Silk Road Highway in Sassanid and Nishapur, if we don’t see you today, Insha’Allah, we’ll be here tomorrow.”

  86. @29, Xopher:

    Oh I didn’t mean to imply anything about the hearer/reader/whatever’s rights in the matter.

    I was just ruminating that grokking the whole concept of free speech tends to make it easier to avoid taking offense at this stuff if you don’t want to be offended often, which is a good thing to avoid, blood pressure and all that.

  87. i subscribe to dobsons christianist screeds for kicks. for the last couple years he’s been ranting against ford because of their support of teh gays and how hes responsible for their decline due to the boycott hes leading.

    i wonder if this dealer is aware that hes selling cars made by satan.

  88. LOL, I imagine this ad would get me to boycott that firm (if not Ford entirely) for life even if I was a Christian. After all, a good ad is supposed to make me buy stuff. It’s only fair that such idiots are punished, sales-wise.

    But … while I don’t know, if I had to guess, I’d say most people aren’t thinking like this, consciously making a mental note; instead, after a couple of days, the only trace the ad will have left in their minds is “Ford … Ford … Ford …” — dunno if the auto maker or other dealers are really seeing a reason to sue.

  89. #109 Dang it, Joe, you stole my thunder!

    The “under God” clause of the “The Pledge of Allegiance” is a red herring. The debate should be framed in the context of should the pledge be used at all, given its history.

    Likewise, the “In God We Trust” on the money is a similar red herring. What should really be discussed is the wisdom of allowing politicians to control currency. It strikes me as blasphemous to mention God on crap fiat currency.

  90. Meh. It’s Rosamond. I spent 5 years in the Antelope Valley; I doubt anyone familiar with the town (village, really) would bat an eye at this. You expect that sort of thing from insular, suspicious, dust-blown and sun-scorched eensy-weensy communities in a desert. Shoot, I’m sure the attention they are getting out of this is the biggest happening in the town’s history, other than when that wagon lost its wheel and the occupants had no way to fix it…the birth of Rosamond.

    What Would Jesus Drive? A donkey. Or a bicycle. Maybe a donkey pulling a bicycle-wheeled cart.

  91. Great thing about free speech is, you can tell someone to “sit down and shut up,” but your words don’t make them do it.

    I’m gonna call this Ford dealership and excercise my freedom of speech and ask about the possibility of ordering a Mustang with chrome wheels, red metallic paint, XM radio, a towing package, and a fish symbol on the trunk and then tell them to go f@ck a grizzly bear! (Too bad it won’t actually make them do it, but it’ll be fun, anyway!)

  92. @92 Rationalist — I’m not a big fan of the “substitute” this word for another tactic to make an argument, especially when the word “jew” is loaded with SO MUCH BAGGAGE that I even hesitate to say it in polite conversation when it is absolutely the right word to use. Not to mention the word “jew” could arguably bring in race to a large degree, which the car ad did not.

    And everyone seems to use the word “bigot” quite easily here. Under Webster’s the racial side of “bigot” gets more play, and this ad is again without race. It’s more about “I don’t like people who don’t THINK or BELIEVE the way I do.” Which is most closer to the broad definition of bigot in Webster’s, and I would say that some of the posts on this topic seem dangerously close to that definition too.

    And this is not “hate” speech either. It’s “laugh” speech because it’s laughable. I’m an atheist who can’t stand a trembling atheist who wilts at any mention of god. My atheism is secure enough to find most god references — cultural, cute, and quaint. If I’m at a Texas high school football game, and their culture-of-churches wants to say a pre-grame prayer, I don’t go running to the ACLU to get them, because I was so overwhelmed by said prayer.

    Not to mention — if we were in another country, and they trotted out something religious marginally intertwined with the state — us fair-minded folks would all find ways to bend over backwards to allow it — it’s part of their culture, who are we to judge their culture, etc. But if we are in a part of the states where religion is a deep part of their culture — well, then they are all christian idiots who voted for Bush. Which would be wrong — large parts of Minnesota are christian and lutheran, which has historically been a liberal hotbed …

    And, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve DEFENDED christians when I’ve been surrounded by people making the exact kind of sweeping statements the other way, like the car dealership did. Granted, their statements were at a dinner party, not over the airwaves. And their statements were certainly “hateful.” Would the proponents of hate speech really like to see it used against a not-so-usual target?

    Finally, going back in the way-back machine to say that Ford is forever guilty of being racist is unfair. In fact, ask your african-american friends what they think of Ford some time. You will be surprised to find out that they have TREMENDOUS loyalty to Ford products, because Ford was one of the first to hire them at the northern factories. My father worked in the car industry, and had jewish pals at Ford, who were very tired of bringing out Henry’s stupidity in the 20s, to compare to the current situation in the 70s. Which was 30 years ago …

    And for the inevitable attack on my supposed political leanings — usually vote Demo … atheist, etc. … to me — the greatest danger we face on our side is to become their side. The righteousness and intolerance of anyone not singing spot on key with our own particular choir (i.e. posts immediately attacking thoughtful poster Jed as a Bushy, etc.) …

  93. Maddy@#119:

    You make some compelling arguments, however, it is clear that the intention of this ad is to fan the flames of the cultural war we find ourselves in, and incite divisiveness (via a double standard, of course) like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter etc. to inflate their sales. If we all use our free speech, like Bill O’Reilly, just to tell others to shut up, then where is the vital discourse that is the life-blood of a healthy democracy? You are saying that those of us who cited this as bigotry should be tolerant of their intolerance. I am not saying that they should shut up, but I do find the ad offensive, and I am saying that we must point out hypocrisy wherever it may be found, and explain why, which many of us here have done here quite eloquently.

  94. What Would Jesus Drive?

    The moneychangers from the Temple, of course. Didn’t you go to Vacation Bible School?

    13 The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

    14 And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables.

    15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables

    John 2:13-16 (New American Standard Bible)

  95. one point that is being missed here…. that the 14% cannot remove the free speech of the majority, and likewise for vice-versa. their point is that the minority cannot speak for the majority and free speech should not be removed because a minority disagrees with the message the majority follows.
    Of course this is kind of a hypocritical stance relating Ford to Christians since Ford is the biggest supporter of the G&L movement of all the automotive manufacturers out there.

    Regardless of which, I would rather get shafted by a dealership like this than one who is sneaky and not outspoken.

  96. Yea!!!!!!!!! Kieffe and Sons. We all love your Fords. Don’t pay any attention to some comments. They are opinions with no true facts. We know how great you are

  97. Rick Kieffe the President of Kieffe and Sons Ford has posted a response and apology on their site regarding the radio ad. Please take a moment to read it:

    Whitney E. Drake
    Ford Global Digital Communications Manager

  98. A comment from the blog of the guy who wrote the advert (

    “I also believe that it is absurd that so many of you are putting so much passion into the claim that you have been injured or insulted. There are children of all races in this country who are being abused mentally and physically. Families cannot afford to feed their children. The price of gas is a burden on many people who have difficulty getting back and forth to work. The oil companies are racking in mega dollars and telling the consumer to shove…[bunch of equally irrelevant racist crap ommitted]…but you want to make an issue out of a sixty second radio spot.”

    I’ve seen this kind of fallacy/redirection technique in several places (“how can you guys take the time to call me on my crap when there are so many worse things in the world?”) – does it have a name?

  99. Sweet – thanks arkizzle, you win the no prize!

    You guys should collate those rules somewhere; it would be a great service to anyone who hates seeing the same predictable fallacies brought up on every thread.

    Or at least to those with indestructable livers and a large spirit collection.

  100. ..indestructable livers and a large spirit collection.

    You are in good company here, my friend.

  101. I’ve owned 3 Fords in my life.A Ford Mustang,A Ford 2dr.Escort lx hatchback and presently a Ford escort lx 5dr.wagon with almost 137,000 miles on it.The other day I notice a Ford Focus 2dr.that looked kinda neat,and so I thought since my 1996 Ford escort lx 5dr.wagon is getting old that I might consider buying a new car.But since I’m an atheist and as JW.Horne has stated that I’m in the minority and that I should sit down and shut up,I don’t think I’ll be buying any Ford products again in the future.

  102. I wrote to Ford to complain and apparently the issue is on their radar. Here is their form letter response:

    “Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center regarding your feedback for the radio advertisemet of Kieffe and Sons Ford.

    Ford Motor Company is concerned with the satisfaction of all Ford and Lincoln-Mercury owners and potential customers. We regret the circumstances that have prompted you to contact us.

    This specific issue has been addressed by Ford Motor Company personnel with appropriate representatives at Kieffe and Sons Ford in Mojave, California. Our investigation has determined that the advertising was placed in error. Corrective actions have been taken to prevent this from happening again.

    Thank you for taking the time to bring this to our attention.If you have any other inquiries, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.

    Improving the fuel economy of your vehicle starts with regular maintenance at your local Dealership. Following the maintenance schedule is an easy way to optimize your vehicle’s fuel economy. Click on the attached link to highlight current incentives and offers available at your local Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealers.

    Customer Relationship Center
    Ford Motor Company”

    Things I love about this letter:

    1. “The advertising was placed in error.” Oh, did I accidentally air my own personal diatribe against non-believers? Whoopsy! I must have hit record before I meant to.

    2. Whether I am a Ford owner or not, they recommend their dealers’ services to cut down my gas mileage. What nice folks!

    3. The customer rep’s name is Jay-R. Just a few cubes over I could have gotten a response from Jay-Z!

  103. Serotonin @83:

    I’d love to go in and ask if an atheist gets the same mileage as a Christian. I’m assuming Catholics get worse mileage than Protestants, what with all the guilt weighing them down and all.

    Catholics actually get pretty good mileage, but they take the extra gasoline and offer it up to Jesus for the souls whose cars have broken down in Purgatory.

    Born-agains calculate their mileage once, when the car is new, and trust in Jesus for their maintenance thereafter.

    The Unitarian Universalists will be sponsoring a theoretical discussion of engines. Coffee will be served afterward in the basement.

    Presbyterians believe that if your car is meant to get good mileage, it will; but in the meantime you should adopt a gas-conserving style of driving, to show that you deserve it.

    Quakers sit quietly in their cars until the spirit moves them to drive somewhere.

    Mormons believe that if you take 10% out of every gallon of gas you buy, you’ll wind up getting better mileage than anyone else.

  104. Shmengie!

    Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
    He is driving down the highway in a polka-dotted Ford
    With one hand on the throttle
    And the other on a bottle
    Of A-1 Premium Beer.

    Glory, glory, hallelujah
    Glory, glory, what’s it to ya?
    Glory, glory, hallelujah
    Of A-1 Premium Beer.

    I wear my pink pajamas in the summer when it’s hot
    I wear my flannel nightie in the winter when it’s not
    And sometimes in the springtime, and sometimes in the fall,
    I jump right in between the sheets with nothing on at all.

    Glory, glory hallelujah
    Glory, glory, what’s it to ya?
    Balmy breezes blowin’ through ya
    With nothing on at all.

    JSG @11: it’s no use. They’re in the range where an unshakable belief that one is among the saved is considered a sign of virtue.

    The Unusual Suspect @19: JWRTFM.

    Cupcake Faerie @44, thank you. That’ll be a good thing to remember the next time the you-know-whos are making all the noise.

    Edmond @53: If Jesus were here right now, he wouldn’t spend all his time feeling sorry for himself.

    The reason you may think he’s one of the “loudest” Christians is because boingboing rarely, if ever, posts positive stories about Christianity.

    You just keep deploying those stereotypes, Edmond, if that’s your true will. In the meantime, I’ll reflect that if Jesus were around, he’d have paid enough attention to notice that Godless Boing Boing isn’t. He also wouldn’t be nearly so apt to run holier-than-thou headtrips that alienate the onlookers.

    f thy wnt t pst 30 lnks n th lst mnth bt nw bk n f thm thrd, thy cn d tht t.)

    I tend to think that slow learners ought not be so gratuitously nasty.

    I find it fascinating

    No you don’t. You’re trying to suggest that there’s some kind of agenda in action, without getting up the moral oomph to say as much.

    that many of the same people who rightly dismiss the actions of a small number of Muslim zealots as not being representative of Islam somehow believe that the small number of Christian zealots *are* representative of all Christianity.

    It probably has something to do with them never missing a chance to tell us so.

    Karen @104: That was you? Good going!

    Joe Mommasan @120, the moneychangers must have left their keys in the ignition.

    Russ3llr, Arkizzle, and especially RossInDetroit: I always knew I disliked that argument, but Ross’s formulation — “There are greater evils, so this one doesn’t matter” — is at once the clearest and most concise refutation of it I’ve ever heard.

  105. As a christian, I find this ad very offensive. Not a good way to love one’s neighbor.

    Pls, d t my vls, wld nvr by Frd bcs f th mnt f spprt th FMC thrws twrds th hmsxl gnd.

    It ain’t gonna stop people buying Ford, just me. But still, what a horrible ad.

  106. Besides, every Christian knows that Jesus doesn’t drive a Ford, he’s a Honda man:

    ‘For I did not speak of my own Accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say.’

  107. All that means, Rob, is that Jesus did not SPEAK of his Accord. Maybe it just wasn’t such a terrible car, and he didn’t feel the need to bring it up, because he had more important things to talk about, like taking care of the poor.

    Huh. Kind of like he never said anything about homosexuals. Guess homosexuality wasn’t a real deal-breaker sin in his view, unlike (for example) being wealthy.

    And do you know what the homosexual agenda is? It’s pretty much like your agenda, only with brunch.

  108. Hehehe Xopher.

    Any sin is a “real deal breaker” in a real Christian worldview.

    Homosexuality isn’t any better or worse than lying, coveting, lust, greed, selfishness, pride, theft, or even intentionally stepping on an ant.

    Sin is seperation from God, pure and simple. Its doing anything our way instead of His.

    As a Christian, I will not say that being gay condemns one to hell. Maybe condemns one to brunch tho! It’s not having Jesus that condemns one, not who or what a person finds attractive.

    Like i’ve said other places, I’m not opposed to gays calling themselves married, it won’t affect my marriage, or God’s views on what marriage is. But I do think that if corporations are going to give their profits to causes, they shouldn’t be one-sided or polarizing things. Instead of funding politics, feed the and clothe the poor, clean up the envioronment, etc.

    I still don’t think I’d ever buy a Ford though. My dad raised me in a Chevy ;)

  109. Xopher,

    By engaging this guy, you’re encouraging him to use this thread as a forum for his homophobia. Just a thought.

  110. o ok. got it. i’ve been disemvoweled. (like that ending scene of Braveheart!)

    My apologies. I shall keep unwelcome views to myself unless they support the original article. Which oddly enough, they did not.

    Just goes to show that all Christians aren’t wackos. And not all of us like Ford ;)

    or in other words: Fix Often, Repair Daily

    lovin’ my neighbors and callin’ it as I see it,

  111. Feh. I have no homophobia. I have a few friends that are gay, and that doesn’t make me like them less! I also have friends who are vegan. Does that make me a veggiephobe if I prefer meat? I don’t think so.

    I will admit to being a coulrophobe though. Clowns in Fords is the ultimate travesty! (thats why i hate circuses) ;)

    Funny how those say its wrong to judge are often the quickest to do so, Antinous…

  112. liar

    robforgods website opens on a Focus on the Family reference

    first google “focus on the family gay” gives:

    A False Focus on My Family: Why every person of faith should be deeply troubled by Dr. James Dobson’s dangerous and misleading words about the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community

    by Jeff Lutes, MS, LPC

    In this 32-page booklet, Jeff Lutes begins by revealing Dr. Dobson and Focus on the Family’s harsh and misleading anti-gay rhetoric. He then constructs a response to shed the light of truth using the latest in scientific, psychological, psychiatric, and medical research.

  113. Antinous, OK, but “homosexual agenda”! I mean really. This is like the FBI infiltrating vegan potlucks.

    Terrible, that controversial vegan agenda.

  114. Well you can cast stones as much as you want. I never said anything about any person or people. I said a company shouldn’t fund politics/special interests.

    Just because I love the Lord, does that mean I’m a homophobe? No. Talk about a stinkin’ witch hunt, man.

    Googling me gives you Focus on the Family because I’ve done design work for them thru the agency I used to work at. And I like the organization so I blogged an article on FORGIVENESS (ironic that you wouldnt read it), I think they have very good parenting tips and other resources. Do they firebomb abortion clinics? Nope. Do they operate a so-called “Christian Mafia”? Nope.

    But it’s no real surprise that people feel this way. “The world will hate you because of me.” said Jesus. There’s a difference between loving the sinner and hating the sin. Anyone so ready to fire the “homophobe” arrow should really think about that.

    And did I defend this dealership’s actions in their “sit down and shut up” ad? NO. I condemned them as being very UNCHRISTLIKE in attitude – hypocrites really.

    It’s like that Far Side cartoon with the two deer – one has a target on his body. “Heck of a birthmark, Hal” The moment you identify yourself as a Christian, every person in the world who has an opinion makes up their mind about you, and assumes they know your thoughts on everything.

    It’s funny how “tolerance” applies to everyone and everything EXCEPT Christianity. Now there’s the real hypocrisy.

  115. The faux-persecution argument. Again. Your Christianity is not at issue here.

    Would you boycott a car company because they give lots of money to FOTF? After all, they’re a political organization. And by the way some of their “parenting tips” are illegal in some states (the more civilized ones, where beating a baby for ANY reason (or for no reason as Dr. Dobson recommends) is rightly considered child abuse).

    Your use of the phrase ‘homosexual agenda’ is evidence of homophobia. Only homophobes believe the “homosexual agenda” exists.

    At no point has your Christianity been brought up by anyone except you. We discussed Jesus’ views briefly; I took you very gently to task for the “homosexual agenda” remark.

    I’m well aware that not all Christians are homophobic monsters. Also that not all homophobic monsters are Christians. FOTF is an organization of CHINOs who are homophobic monsters. Perhaps they’ve only misled you with their false witness against their homosexual neighbors, but it IS false witness and we ARE their neighbors, and they are bad Christians.

    Finally, I’d like to hear what other companies you boycott, and why. Do you boycott Exxon for their terrible environmental crimes? Or do you only boycott companies that contribute to causes on the left like gay rights?

  116. On the whole, I think boycotts are rather useless. BUT if it’s effective in opening the eyes of a corporation, we as a people have to take them to task.

    If I know of a companies practices that disagree with my values, then I’d prefer to take my business elsewhere – but in the end, will that have a lasting impact? Probably not.

    I am not actively boycotting Ford because I’ve never liked their product in the first place – but I also disagree with their funding special interests… which I see your point, probably every large company does that to some extent.

    I don’t know if the gas I buy (painfully) is owned by Exxon – if it isn’t, I imagine it wouldn’t be long until then, with all these merger-hungry megacorps lately. If I was made aware, then like I said I’d probably take my business elsewhere.

    but I dont think I’d rally the neighbors saying “because I disagree, you shouldn’t buy Car X or Gas X”. In the end, such causes are probably better served by being a stockholder and making your voice known that way.

    I let my daughter watch Hannah Montana, even though I disgree with Disneyland’s “Gay Day” event – but you know what? That’s not why I’d go to disneyland.

    Stewardship is important in all areas, but if you live your life running away from people who disgree with you, you’ll run yourself into the grave. I guess there’s no way around it, aside from holing up on a mountain alone somewhere… but then that mountain probably has a No Tresspassing sign at the base…

    Forgive me from using “homosexual agenda” in an offensive way. I guess I didn’t know what other term to use for a company that would support causes affiliated with certain groups. Everyone has an agenda, even if it is just “brunch”. =)

    (I love that, btw – thanks for the chuckle this morning)

  117. BTW, what does “CHINOs” mean, other than pants? Pardon my ignorance (couldnt find it with google)

  118. Antinous, this guy just doesn’t smell like a troll to me.

    Rob, for my part I forgive you. If you’d said “I don’t agree with their donating money to gay rights organizations” I’d know you and I disagree, but it wouldn’t raise such red flags. ‘Homosexual agenda’ is a scare word used by drooling homo-haters; avoid it and you won’t be mistaken for one. If you’ve tried several solutions to a problem, and finally decided which one you’re going to stick with, you still can’t call it your Final Solution…see what I mean?

    And you’re quite welcome to the chuckle. It’s not quite original with me. I got it from a cartoon with a list that looked something like this:


    7:00-8:00 Get up, shower, shave, dress
    8:00-10:00 Clean up living room
    10:00-Noon Fuss with hair; change outfits several times
    Noon-2:00 Brunch
    2:00-3:00 Take over world, subjugate all others
    3:00-5:00 Shop for dinner groceries

    Or something like that.

  119. Xopher!!!

    It’s 14:45 and I haven’t even showered yet, because I’ve been busy with the 14:00 – 15:00 items. Do you have to make me feel guilty for not following the agenda?

  120. Antinous: Not if you subjugate me I don’t. I have to point out you’re a little behind on that part too.

    Rob: ambiguous. Could you clarify? Tone doesn’t come across in writing; by “insane” do you mean “so funny I can’t breathe” or “O my God that’s MONSTROUS!!”?

  121. You’re all monsters! Anabolic steroids are part of The Homosexual Agenda? No wonder you all have to lie on AIM/in bars.

  122. Sorry to redirect the thread to its original topic, but “None of us at Kieffe & Sons Ford is afraid to speak out” has not been fully addressed yet in all of its gleaming hypocrisy. This sentence should be finished with: “however, we are afraid to take credit for our crass and beligerant statments made by those we paid to advertise for us…”

  123. Actually, the secret to “free speach” is hidden in the science of quantum physics. Depending on which major religion says it, depends on what you can say. Like if a Christian says “free speach is for everyone.” It really means, you can say what ever you want as long as you think like me too. In the science of ideas, saying that Christ died 2000 years ago, means you won’t be looking for him now. Not caring to observe the phenom of the Christ, he is ever present, but if you realize who He is, then the game is over. Of course, making your way to that realization is guarded by fears. If you have the courage, it’s more fun than any ride in an amuzment park. The truly humbling aspect of knowing, or realizing is that you get to wake up in a Zoo, and the only escape, if there is one, is by way of your ideas.

  124. Long weekend… sorry for the ambiguous statement. I should remember my netiquette and mention what i’m referring to.

    I was talking about the link that Takuan posted ( Not sure if that nutcase actually believes it, or if it’s made to be a parody. In either case, it’s just insane. It’s things like that that make me ashamed of other Christians, because how is that showing love to anyone?

    And thanks for your forgiveness Xopher, that means a lot to me. More than anything else, I hate when people make wrong assumptions about me or my motivations, and I’m sure most people would feel the same.

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