And BTW, appointment to offices in De Molay is by vote, not by ability to memorize weird shit. (And frankly, a lot of the ritual is overly wordy.) The dances were fun though, as were the State Conclaves.

Masons do not generally prefer each others in business or social matters–that is not to say it never happens, it is just not institutionalized and indeed in much of our literature it is frowned upon. too many charlatans using their masonic affiliation to swindle the brethren.

It’s more than a social group. It is kind of a secular mystery used to teach a system of morals. It’s purpose is to teach men to live together harmoniously and to strive to behave charitably. It uses ritual and ‘degrees’ to do this. Some people find it mystical and esoteric, some people like the pancake breakfasts.

Personally, I don’t care to belong to any secret society that would accept me as a member.

http://bsuwg.blogspot.com/2006/01/as-i-was-saying-about-masons.html

I can think of nothing more “less punk” then joining the Masons….

I thought punk was against the “old guard.” I thought punk was in favor of unlimited freedom…and NOT a globalist agenda. I thought punk was more of a down to earth, tell it like it is, keep your feet planted firmly on the ground, a kind of reality based entertainment. Masonry is all symbolic and occult like with all the on the level, square business psychobabble crap…kind of like the opposite of “punk” values.

Punk Masons…COME ON! Get real….

And Punks ahve a long tradition of being in the masons- look at the cover of Frankenchrist. Left to right, that’s Jello, Ray, Klaus and DH, right?

Wait just a minute! closed and secret? women separate? must be non-athetist? hierarchical? – this does NOT sound like something the Punks I know would be involved with!

My sentiments exactly. Well, at least they aren’t calling themselves hardcore or anything… then, that would be fightin’ words.

I’ve had family in the Masons and they weren’t strange, outwardly evil or anything. But many years ago when a friend’s older, wealthy parents died suddenly without warning in an accident, we later got access to his Dad’s books (who was at a very high degree within the Masons – he wore the ring, he had the compass and ruler on his grave, etc.) and we read the fucked up rules and strange rituals in the Masonic book he had under lock and key (we had to have the safe opened by a locksmith). We had access to his private correspondences as well, but I won’t get into that except to say, we knew his specific degree.

Being the sane atheist that I am, the gothy rituals don’t “scare” me at all and I just find them almost as laughable and ridiculous as where a bunch of frat boys stick their thumbs up each other asses (to bond)… I mean, I do find grown men performing rituals strange to say the least, but I know the rituals are really just about physiological mind-fuck “bonding”. Anyway, I digress… it was the rules that pissed us off.

The rule that upset us is the fact that the highest law in the land for them is NOT the American law system. That’s treason as far as I’m concerned.

You can go ahead and deny this, Masons. But, you and I both will know you are lying. And, as far the supposed Mason above who said they don’t go out of their way to do business with each other, etc.? That’s also complete, laughable bullshit. That’s like saying frat boys avoid hooking each other up with their parents for jobs… it’s half the reason some of the boys are in the frat in the first place… it’s for the connections and money.

That said, are all Masons the same? No. But are they all under a treasonous premise of following a “law” that is “higher” than our American law system? Yes. And that sucks.

I just wish the Masons would quit being cowards and finally end the secrecy surrounding the organization and come out into the light and quit hiding like roaches.

If you can’t find better ways to bond with your fellow man… that’s just sad.

The rule that upset us is the fact that the highest law in the land for them is NOT the American law system. That’s treason as far as I’m concerned.

You can go ahead and deny this, Masons. But, you and I both will know you are lying.

I don’t want to go off-topic, and I’ve no idea how US masons do things, but this is news to me.

Here in England all masons promise that they will do nothing that is contrary to “the ordinances of the realm” (i.e. the law), promising to act in strict conformity at all times with the laws of the country in which they reside; further, they promise to do nothing that conflicts with their “moral, civil or religious duty”. So it’s not just no illegal stuff, but also no immoral stuff (like cronyism).

Is it different in the US?

what do johnny rotten or bad religion have to do with punk rock? i don’t think i know anyone who’s actually involved with any DIY scene who would even admit to enjoying the sex pistols.

Why repeat what everyone already knows to be the truth? But you forgot the Denver Airport.

(That’s the very freaky and little-researched “Moonshiners Dance Part One” by Frank Cloutier and The Victoria Cafe Orchestra.)

And, sure enough, more than a few of the musicians closely associated with the recording were Freemasons. For one thing, you can often tell by the symbols on their headstones.

It can be Art, or Music, or Nature or whatever. Please don’t let that stop anyone from joining, if that’s what you would like.

Interestingly, this is exactly the kind of tactic that I see all the time from Masonophobes elsewhere on the net. It’s a nice way to deflect potential responses, since you’re already assuming that anything I – or anyone else – says will be a lie. Can’t really have much of a discussion with those ground rules, you know?

Yes, but who really set the ground rules here? It’s no “tactic” on my part, it’s no conspiracy… I honestly just don’t trust large, secretive organizations.

That’s the problem with you being a part of a secret (*cough*… esoteric) society, isn’t it? It breeds mistrust in the first place. It’s laughable how “shocked” you guys act when you find that people outside of your iron curtain just might not trust you. XD If I walk into a convenience store with a group of guys and whisper in secret in the corner with them, I’m sure I’ll still get the stink eye from the clerk no matter what the hell I tell him at that point. In that case, I set a bad precedent by acting in a nefarious manner and I have to take personal responsibility for my actions or I’ll just be forever confused and befuddled by that clerks evil eye upon me.

Also, don’t you find your approach and that of some of the other Masons here a tad bit hypocritical? For example, making broad statements saying that basically all your detractors got their information from “some book” or “some website” pack full of lies and based on “no proof”. Yet, if your organization would just finally bring down its iron curtain it would finally put most of these so-called baseless accusations to rest, wouldn’t it? Bring down the wall, Mr. Grand Masters, bring down the wall. Ah, but then you wouldn’t have your… mystery… would ya? XD

By the way, I’m not a Masonophobe. I don’t fear the Masons and I certainly don’t fear any of my family members that are Masons. I don’t find the rituals scary… I was in a death metal band for a spell and we were so goth that we shit bats, my brother. Hell… skulls and altars and shit? I call that decor. And, as I said before, I understand the purpose of the Masons as far as the American Revolution goes and I’ve got much respect for that. But, at his point in history the secrecy shit is stale and archaic. It doesn’t help anymore… it hurts you.

You also continuously ignore the fact that I didn’t get my information from Barnes & Noble or the dreaded “internet”. It was directly from a high ranking Mason. Hell, you might have very well had a few drinks with him before he died.

Anyway, couldn’t we just simply eradicate all this bullshit by just finally switching out secrecy for openness?

Welp, let’s sweep the ground rules aside for a bit… As far as secrecy goes what do you Masons think about this? Here we have one of the most secretive regimes in modern American history running our government, yet they just love peeping into our windows any chance they get. You can see where organized, authoritarian secrecy is hurting America, can’t you?

But for the sake of anyone who’s interested, Masonry is not a society for people interested in secret cronyism; there are a lot of other groups available which promote networking

Which secret societies are those? Skull & Bones, perhaps? Why don’t you peep over that iron curtain for a spell and whisper your thoughts on them? I mean, I wouldn’t want you to break the first rule of Fight Club or anything, but I’d sincerely love to hear your input on these guys.

they will get together to rake leaves or clean gutters for some of the guys in their 70s and 80s. Or they’ll spend a day in a local community service program, anything from cleaning up winter debris in the hiking trails to running a clothing drive.

Yes, that’s nice. I think most people are very aware of the charitable things Men’s Clubs do in general and that aspect has always been a very commendable and honorable thing. I actually dig the Lion’s Club, personally, but…

I help out the elderly sometimes too, but I don’t do it because they joined my secret club. Instead, they are in the much larger, much more open club called humanity.

I get nothing out of it except personal, private pride in myself, I suppose.. but that’s how a lot of us stupid atheists work. I’m actually embarrassed even bringing it up here in relative anonymity, because I feel it only takes away from the honest gesture of doing things like that in the first place.

I don’t feel the need to report my good deeds to a community or certainly not to my own boy’s club (friends)… I just do it and leave it at that. Anyone who gives to charity and takes it out of their taxes and/or uses it to trumpet how great there are is an asshole in my book. Call me nuts, but I think charity that’s not anonymous has less honor and honesty to it.

Speaking of honesty, I congratulate you on running a lodge that you claim actually frowns upon cronyism. Now maybe you can take the next step and ditch all the secrecy that breeds mistrust among your fellow man and elevate yourself to an even higher degree of human that transcends your secretive nature. I wish you luck on your journey.

Then again, I may be wrong.. if you’ve got REAL punkers with shaved heads and stuff joining maybe you guys are finally planning on blowing up all the banks. Now, that would be badass.

Maybe they are just in it for the crazy jewelry.

I once had a book called “Morals and Dogma: Ancient and Accepted Rite of Scottish Freemasonry” or something like that. Reading it was like reading a book by Zecharia Sitchin.

you don’t think a little secrecy held in reserve is good insurance?

I actually respect the truly secret organizations “out there” that need to work in secret because they are subverting larger authority (imperialism, etc.). At least they don’t go around trumpeting how moral and fantastic they are. They are too busy being down to fuckin’ business and are some of the true selfless heroes of this world.

But, when the authorities (such as huge organizations like Freemasonry) cling to a secretive nature, it just holds the door wide open for corruption and cronyism.

How would you feel if the ACLU, Amnesty International, the EFF and other such organization became as secretive as the Masons and started slinking around in the dark? You know, just a little secrecy held in reserve for good insurance? Would you still trust their intentions? I would certainly hope not.

Compared to other issues, the Mason frankly bore me, but I’m not going to celebrate any authority who cherishes themselves above the law as they do.

I’m looking forward to when people with backbones stand up for themselves and no longer find the archaic need to embrace cronyism with a secret handshake, wink and nod.

I’m all for a meritocracy and this old, stanky shit finally dying off. Evolve.

Usonian,

If you have a point, make it.

Sorry, Antinous. I am loathe to feed the troll, but since it’s clear that there is no possible response to Cowicide that will not result in further ad hominem attacks and vague accusations of treason and skulduggery anyway, I will go ahead state that I am unimpressed by his preemptive “anyone who contradicts my claims is a liar” debate technique.

Interestingly, nobody ever has any proof? Well then, let’s finally set the record straight and show your proof please?

Cowicide accuses all American Freemasons of swearing unspecified treasonous oaths, based on unquoted passage in an unnamed, super-secret book belonging to an unnamed, “high-ranking” Mason in an unnamed location. Were I to suggest that it is impossible for anyone to prove that unnamed books and indeterminate criminal oaths do not exist, my guess is that the counter-argument would have something to do with my being a liar, a coward, a cockroach, engaging in high cronyism, with a straw-man about the Skull & Bones society thrown in for good measure.

Although some lodges would make decent venues, alternatives do exist for your DIY entertainment. My favorite DIY venue was a community center for the blind. On top of a refundable deposit, we would give them a percentage of the door and clean everything.

If you have a point, make it.

I don’t know where you got the idea that we value our rules over those of the law – or anything similar, but it’s not true. In fact, one of the concepts we’re taught first is that nothing in Masonry will conflict with your obligations to God, Family, or Country.

Masonry, at it’s purest, is meant to be a continuous improvement plan for men who want to be better than they are.

BIG shout out to all my brother Masons reading Boing-Boing! So awesome to see you out there (mostly because I know so many of you have to be similar in age to me)

Lee Coursey
Junior Warden
Russellville, #17, GL of KY

John Lydon had a great remark about when Punk went off the rails. See, at first everyone dressed and acted however they wanted. Then you started seeing a uniformity to the style (leathers, collars, spikey hair), being a punk became less about being yourself and more about fitting a framework, a mold, a style. Be yourself, just like everyone else.

The guy who turned me on to Bad Religion became a Mason though his brothers lodge. He’s met a number of friends, a mentor andregularly has drinks with some smart older guys who do cool ceremonial stuff dating back centuries.

The least punk thing you can do is whip out a punk measuring stick to hold up to other people. Just be you and let them be them.