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	<title>Comments on: NY Times editorial on laptop seizures by Homeland&#160;Security</title>
	<atom:link href="http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231427</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231427</guid>
		<description>funny how all the laptop searches, cellphone rapes and blackberry abductions have not yielded a single terrorist plot. It&#039;s almost as if the whole thing was an ill-considered farce, run by incompetent baboons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny how all the laptop searches, cellphone rapes and blackberry abductions have not yielded a single terrorist plot. It&#8217;s almost as if the whole thing was an ill-considered farce, run by incompetent baboons.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230673</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230673</guid>
		<description>#19.  Rather than lolcats, for maximum time wastage you need to fill it with public domain works in Arabic.  Then instead of paging through to see if there is anything interesting, somebody will have to &lt;i&gt;translate&lt;/i&gt; pages and pages of material.  Unfortunately Arabic isn&#039;t one of the choices in babelfish.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19.  Rather than lolcats, for maximum time wastage you need to fill it with public domain works in Arabic.  Then instead of paging through to see if there is anything interesting, somebody will have to <i>translate</i> pages and pages of material.  Unfortunately Arabic isn&#8217;t one of the choices in babelfish.  </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230678</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230678</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And&lt;/i&gt;...you get free housing and regular sinus cleansings for a few years while they figure out that it&#039;s just Om Kolthoum lyrics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And</i>&#8230;you get free housing and regular sinus cleansings for a few years while they figure out that it&#8217;s just Om Kolthoum lyrics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BuckFoston</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230692</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckFoston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230692</guid>
		<description>#30:

You could also save all of your lolcats as TIFF or TGA; and ensure you don&#039;t have a copy of IrFanView on your system.  Throw a few RickRolls on there, too !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#30:</p>
<p>You could also save all of your lolcats as TIFF or TGA; and ensure you don&#8217;t have a copy of IrFanView on your system.  Throw a few RickRolls on there, too !</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: buddy66</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230724</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230724</guid>
		<description>Ken, Don&#039;t pay too much attention to Takuan&#039;s snide asides; he&#039;s a chain-yanking provoker who digs digging people. A few weeks ago he insinuated that I was a killer and a hypocrite. But if the Boingers are really worried about vertical space and bandwidth,  thenruneveryfuckingthingtogetherlikethis. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, Don&#8217;t pay too much attention to Takuan&#8217;s snide asides; he&#8217;s a chain-yanking provoker who digs digging people. A few weeks ago he insinuated that I was a killer and a hypocrite. But if the Boingers are really worried about vertical space and bandwidth,  thenruneveryfuckingthingtogetherlikethis. </p>
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		<title>By: TheWillow</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230980</link>
		<dc:creator>TheWillow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230980</guid>
		<description>Man, I am so excited to fly tomorrow.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, I am so excited to fly tomorrow.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jenjen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231239</link>
		<dc:creator>jenjen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231239</guid>
		<description>I love the idea of filling it up with files for which there is no application on the computer to open them. Maybe download a thousand pdfs of IRS forms, rename them as xls and then uninstall Excel.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of filling it up with files for which there is no application on the computer to open them. Maybe download a thousand pdfs of IRS forms, rename them as xls and then uninstall Excel.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230994</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230994</guid>
		<description>In passing it should be noted that while it&#039;s fairly well established that border and customs agents have the right to examine (if not seize for later examination) your computer it&#039;s less certain that they can compel you to disclose any passwords to access encrypted files. Compelling a person to do so would, according to one school of thought, be a violation of a person&#039;s 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. Basically (as others have argued) you have to surrender the safe but you don&#039;t have to give them the combination. 

Of course if they&#039;ve got a supercomputer at their disposal or you&#039;ve got really weak encryption then that&#039;s a different story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In passing it should be noted that while it&#8217;s fairly well established that border and customs agents have the right to examine (if not seize for later examination) your computer it&#8217;s less certain that they can compel you to disclose any passwords to access encrypted files. Compelling a person to do so would, according to one school of thought, be a violation of a person&#8217;s 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. Basically (as others have argued) you have to surrender the safe but you don&#8217;t have to give them the combination. </p>
<p>Of course if they&#8217;ve got a supercomputer at their disposal or you&#8217;ve got really weak encryption then that&#8217;s a different story.</p>
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		<title>By: decius</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231763</link>
		<dc:creator>decius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231763</guid>
		<description>@ #48, TAKUAN:

Nathan Sales mentioned a laptop search that turned up a terrorist in &lt;a href=&quot;http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=3420&amp;wit_id=7268&quot;&gt;his testimony in the Senate hearing. &lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;More recently, in 2006, a laptop search at Minneapolis-St. Paul airport helped U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers detect a potentially risky traveler. Once he was referred to secondary inspection, CBP discovered that he had a manual on how to make improvised explosive devices, or IEDs â€“ a weapon of choice for terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq. Inspecting the passengerâ€™s computer, officers also found video clips of IEDs being used to kill soldiers and destroy vehicles, as well as a video on martyrdom.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What Mr. Sales did not mention is that this person wasn&#039;t randomly selected for search, but rather he was pulled for secondary screening after being flagged by an anti-terror profiling tool called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/speeches/sp_1166557969765.shtm&quot;&gt;&quot;Automated Targeting System.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

Mr. Sale&#039;s failure to mention that fact makes the reference a bit disingenuous, as no one disputes the right of DHS to search laptops when they have a reasonable basis for suspicion. What is in dispute is whether DHS can search laptops at random. If anything this example demonstrates that DHS is better off focusing their searches on people they can identify as being suspicious through profiling tools, a point made by numerous people on both sides of the issue in the Senate hearing. 

However, as an abstract matter, there are terrorists, they have laptops, and they travel into the US. It is possible that DHS will find one through random searching. If you oppose random searches you have to be comfortable with not finding that terrorist. I am. The likelyhood of finding a terrorist this way is astronomically low and the cost to the dignity and privacy of travelers is extremely high. The exact same balance of risks and costs exists in our decision not to allow DHS to perform random searches of houses inside the US. Part of being a free country involves limiting police investigations to contexts wherein you have some reasonable basis for suspicion. If we throw that away we aren&#039;t the same sort of country anymore. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ #48, TAKUAN:</p>
<p>Nathan Sales mentioned a laptop search that turned up a terrorist in <a href="http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=3420&#038;wit_id=7268">his testimony in the Senate hearing. </a></p>
<blockquote><p>More recently, in 2006, a laptop search at Minneapolis-St. Paul airport helped U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers detect a potentially risky traveler. Once he was referred to secondary inspection, CBP discovered that he had a manual on how to make improvised explosive devices, or IEDs â€“ a weapon of choice for terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq. Inspecting the passengerâ€™s computer, officers also found video clips of IEDs being used to kill soldiers and destroy vehicles, as well as a video on martyrdom.</p></blockquote>
<p>What Mr. Sales did not mention is that this person wasn&#8217;t randomly selected for search, but rather he was pulled for secondary screening after being flagged by an anti-terror profiling tool called <a href="http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/speeches/sp_1166557969765.shtm">&#8220;Automated Targeting System.&#8221;</a></p>
<p>Mr. Sale&#8217;s failure to mention that fact makes the reference a bit disingenuous, as no one disputes the right of DHS to search laptops when they have a reasonable basis for suspicion. What is in dispute is whether DHS can search laptops at random. If anything this example demonstrates that DHS is better off focusing their searches on people they can identify as being suspicious through profiling tools, a point made by numerous people on both sides of the issue in the Senate hearing. </p>
<p>However, as an abstract matter, there are terrorists, they have laptops, and they travel into the US. It is possible that DHS will find one through random searching. If you oppose random searches you have to be comfortable with not finding that terrorist. I am. The likelyhood of finding a terrorist this way is astronomically low and the cost to the dignity and privacy of travelers is extremely high. The exact same balance of risks and costs exists in our decision not to allow DHS to perform random searches of houses inside the US. Part of being a free country involves limiting police investigations to contexts wherein you have some reasonable basis for suspicion. If we throw that away we aren&#8217;t the same sort of country anymore. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wnoise</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-232788</link>
		<dc:creator>wnoise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-232788</guid>
		<description>Antinous: I was talking about comment #7 on
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/10/in-search-of-the-pen.html

I don&#039;t know how I managed to post the comment on the wrong story.

My apologies for the confusion, and for making these comment threads even more disjointed than normal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antinous: I was talking about comment #7 on<br />
<a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/10/in-search-of-the-pen.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/10/in-search-of-the-pen.html</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how I managed to post the comment on the wrong story.</p>
<p>My apologies for the confusion, and for making these comment threads even more disjointed than normal.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: arkizzle</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231776</link>
		<dc:creator>arkizzle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231776</guid>
		<description>But did he turn out to be a terrorist? Or just a randommer with a copy of The Anarchist&#039;s Cookbook and some shock vidz?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But did he turn out to be a terrorist? Or just a randommer with a copy of The Anarchist&#8217;s Cookbook and some shock vidz?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: eclectro</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230497</link>
		<dc:creator>eclectro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230497</guid>
		<description>Congress acting? Just after they passed FISA allowing similar electronic searches? And Obama, the one who promised *change* going along with it?

I hardly think so. Change *we can&#039;t* believe in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congress acting? Just after they passed FISA allowing similar electronic searches? And Obama, the one who promised *change* going along with it?</p>
<p>I hardly think so. Change *we can&#8217;t* believe in.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Avram</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230757</link>
		<dc:creator>Avram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230757</guid>
		<description>Jeez, Ken, where do you get these crazy ideas? Next you&#039;ll be telling me there&#039;s a kind of computer that stores everything as ones and zeroes. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeez, Ken, where do you get these crazy ideas? Next you&#8217;ll be telling me there&#8217;s a kind of computer that stores everything as ones and zeroes. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231785</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231785</guid>
		<description>did it occur to you that I was talking about my own credentials buddy? That you came into that discussion after the fact and were not indeed really the one being addressed? Go back and read   the whole thread again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>did it occur to you that I was talking about my own credentials buddy? That you came into that discussion after the fact and were not indeed really the one being addressed? Go back and read   the whole thread again.</p>
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		<title>By: rubberdisco</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-252523</link>
		<dc:creator>rubberdisco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-252523</guid>
		<description>This legislation that gives the Gov the right to confiscate any electronics from any inbound traveler without having any reason whatsoever, is just plain utterly ridiculous.

This does not protect Americans! This is oppression, not security.  This gives any border agent the right to screw with any traveler for no reason at all.  I can picture it now:

Agent: Sir do you have any electronics?
Traveler: Yes I have two Personal Computers with me, and an Iphone.
Agent: Sir we MUST have those checked out at our off site tech facility. You have been randomly chosen.
Traveler: Really, what for?
Agent: We need to ascertain whether you are carrying data that may alert us to terrorist plots that you may be organizing.  Also, we wanna make sure you don&#039;t have any child pornography.  You&#039;ll get your PCs back in a month or so.
Traveler: I don&#039;t have any porn let alone child porn!!! And I&#039;m not a terrorist!  One laptop is personal, one is for business!! I&#039;m only gonna be in the country for 3 days!! What the hack do you want my I Phone for?
Agent: *draws gun* &quot;CODE 5, CODE 5&quot; 
*More agents swarm the vehicle weapons drawn; locked and loaded*
Agent: &quot;GET ON THE GROUND! GET YOUR FACE ON THE GROUND!&quot;
*Months later due to a severe backlog the PCs are checked, many hours wasted, nothing on &#039;em. They are returned to the traveler who is in jail for resisting a data search.

Any criminal hell bent on bringing &quot;terrorist data&quot; into the U.S. does not have to physically bring the data across the border on a memory device.

Just about anyone is capable of hosting &quot;sensitive&quot; data on a private file server.  They could then go to the U.S. and use the internet to connect to their private file server.  Then, they could just download the &quot;nefarious data&quot;.  This effectively circumvents the entire logic of this legislation.

Not only does this legislation fail to provide any security.  Travelers will believe that the U.S government will steal their classified and personal business data.  The agents will also have an opportunity to tamper with the laptop, ie. load government sanctioned spyware and trojans.

The only way to make sure foreigners aren&#039;t going to obtain &quot;nefarious data&quot; would be to have a security officer escort every traveler who enters the country.  The escort could watch them 24/7 to make sure they don&#039;t download a terrorist plot.  They would even have to sleep in the same bed as the traveler to make sure that they aren&#039;t trying to sneak data under the covers using wireless technologies.

Pfft.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This legislation that gives the Gov the right to confiscate any electronics from any inbound traveler without having any reason whatsoever, is just plain utterly ridiculous.</p>
<p>This does not protect Americans! This is oppression, not security.  This gives any border agent the right to screw with any traveler for no reason at all.  I can picture it now:</p>
<p>Agent: Sir do you have any electronics?<br />
Traveler: Yes I have two Personal Computers with me, and an Iphone.<br />
Agent: Sir we MUST have those checked out at our off site tech facility. You have been randomly chosen.<br />
Traveler: Really, what for?<br />
Agent: We need to ascertain whether you are carrying data that may alert us to terrorist plots that you may be organizing.  Also, we wanna make sure you don&#8217;t have any child pornography.  You&#8217;ll get your PCs back in a month or so.<br />
Traveler: I don&#8217;t have any porn let alone child porn!!! And I&#8217;m not a terrorist!  One laptop is personal, one is for business!! I&#8217;m only gonna be in the country for 3 days!! What the hack do you want my I Phone for?<br />
Agent: *draws gun* &#8220;CODE 5, CODE 5&#8243;<br />
*More agents swarm the vehicle weapons drawn; locked and loaded*<br />
Agent: &#8220;GET ON THE GROUND! GET YOUR FACE ON THE GROUND!&#8221;<br />
*Months later due to a severe backlog the PCs are checked, many hours wasted, nothing on &#8216;em. They are returned to the traveler who is in jail for resisting a data search.</p>
<p>Any criminal hell bent on bringing &#8220;terrorist data&#8221; into the U.S. does not have to physically bring the data across the border on a memory device.</p>
<p>Just about anyone is capable of hosting &#8220;sensitive&#8221; data on a private file server.  They could then go to the U.S. and use the internet to connect to their private file server.  Then, they could just download the &#8220;nefarious data&#8221;.  This effectively circumvents the entire logic of this legislation.</p>
<p>Not only does this legislation fail to provide any security.  Travelers will believe that the U.S government will steal their classified and personal business data.  The agents will also have an opportunity to tamper with the laptop, ie. load government sanctioned spyware and trojans.</p>
<p>The only way to make sure foreigners aren&#8217;t going to obtain &#8220;nefarious data&#8221; would be to have a security officer escort every traveler who enters the country.  The escort could watch them 24/7 to make sure they don&#8217;t download a terrorist plot.  They would even have to sleep in the same bed as the traveler to make sure that they aren&#8217;t trying to sneak data under the covers using wireless technologies.</p>
<p>Pfft.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-252527</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-252527</guid>
		<description>gee, you think maybe the idea ISN&#039;T to look for dangerous data? That maybe they have something else in mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gee, you think maybe the idea ISN&#8217;T to look for dangerous data? That maybe they have something else in mind?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jimh</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230515</link>
		<dc:creator>jimh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230515</guid>
		<description>Oh, Congress will act all right.
They&#039;ll act like they&#039;ve never heard of the Fourth Amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Congress will act all right.<br />
They&#8217;ll act like they&#8217;ve never heard of the Fourth Amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomas</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230521</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230521</guid>
		<description>My biggest objection to search or seizure of my laptop by ANYONE without proper oversight is that I have privileged lawyer/client documents on my drives, that those agencies are NOT legally allowed access to.

We really do need more protection from our government in many cases than we do from &quot;terrorists.&quot;

(Don&#039;t expect to get it, though...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My biggest objection to search or seizure of my laptop by ANYONE without proper oversight is that I have privileged lawyer/client documents on my drives, that those agencies are NOT legally allowed access to.</p>
<p>We really do need more protection from our government in many cases than we do from &#8220;terrorists.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Don&#8217;t expect to get it, though&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: fenrox</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230530</link>
		<dc:creator>fenrox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230530</guid>
		<description>Oh, there is an error in this post. There is no fourth amendment, its like the Leisure Suit Larry games, it goes 3 then 5, the fourth one is just an inside joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, there is an error in this post. There is no fourth amendment, its like the Leisure Suit Larry games, it goes 3 then 5, the fourth one is just an inside joke.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chevan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231303</link>
		<dc:creator>Chevan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231303</guid>
		<description>Someone here on BoingBoing once recommended creating a folder of 15,000 1KB image files, reasoning that 15 MB is a small price to pay to get a little payback for the needless search.

Also, border searches are why I&#039;ve resolved never to take a computer across international borders. If I need to, I&#039;ll buy some server space and store a harddrive image then grab it once I&#039;m at my destination.

I could just Truecrypt the whole thing, but I don&#039;t want to have to face the &quot;Give us the password or don&#039;t fly&quot; choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone here on BoingBoing once recommended creating a folder of 15,000 1KB image files, reasoning that 15 MB is a small price to pay to get a little payback for the needless search.</p>
<p>Also, border searches are why I&#8217;ve resolved never to take a computer across international borders. If I need to, I&#8217;ll buy some server space and store a harddrive image then grab it once I&#8217;m at my destination.</p>
<p>I could just Truecrypt the whole thing, but I don&#8217;t want to have to face the &#8220;Give us the password or don&#8217;t fly&#8221; choice.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: xopl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230536</link>
		<dc:creator>xopl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230536</guid>
		<description>Which Supreme Court decision has created the precedent that Americans have no 4th Amendment rights at the border to our own country?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which Supreme Court decision has created the precedent that Americans have no 4th Amendment rights at the border to our own country?</p>
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		<title>By: Ignatz</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230542</link>
		<dc:creator>Ignatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230542</guid>
		<description>There is no Fourth Amendment.  

Just like there is no Rule Six.

You watch; they&#039;re going to change the Fifth Amendment to &quot;No Poofters!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no Fourth Amendment.  </p>
<p>Just like there is no Rule Six.</p>
<p>You watch; they&#8217;re going to change the Fifth Amendment to &#8220;No Poofters!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230544</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230544</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t recall the SCOTUS opinion off the top of my head, but it has long (and maybe forever) been settled law that neither citizens nor noncitizens have any Fourth Amendment rights at the border or its functional equivalent. Meaning, of course, that warrantless searches have long been the norm.

cheers,
M__</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t recall the SCOTUS opinion off the top of my head, but it has long (and maybe forever) been settled law that neither citizens nor noncitizens have any Fourth Amendment rights at the border or its functional equivalent. Meaning, of course, that warrantless searches have long been the norm.</p>
<p>cheers,<br />
M__</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230804</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230804</guid>
		<description>&quot;chain yanking provoker&quot;?  Nahhh, I&#039;m never that subtle.   I&#039;ll call you on the rest Buddy; prove it it retract it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;chain yanking provoker&#8221;?  Nahhh, I&#8217;m never that subtle.   I&#8217;ll call you on the rest Buddy; prove it it retract it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: themindfantastic</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230550</link>
		<dc:creator>themindfantastic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230550</guid>
		<description>Someone should make an instructable, how to set up an clean os partition, with your real hidden partition which cannot be booted into without some sort of code/dongle/sun in the right house situation being a part of the booting process.  So that crossing the border with your laptop won&#039;t be an issue.  Just make sure you erase your ipod, not have any flashdrives on you, swallow your digital camera memory (hopefully it will survive your intestinal tract) clear all contacts/images/songs/what have you on your phone, wear an analog watch that only tells the time (extra points if it doesn&#039;t actually work) and your digital information will be safe from snoopers.  Granted not having ANY digital information is kind of suspicious these days so expect to be taken in the backroom, and have your physical information &#039;rearranged&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone should make an instructable, how to set up an clean os partition, with your real hidden partition which cannot be booted into without some sort of code/dongle/sun in the right house situation being a part of the booting process.  So that crossing the border with your laptop won&#8217;t be an issue.  Just make sure you erase your ipod, not have any flashdrives on you, swallow your digital camera memory (hopefully it will survive your intestinal tract) clear all contacts/images/songs/what have you on your phone, wear an analog watch that only tells the time (extra points if it doesn&#8217;t actually work) and your digital information will be safe from snoopers.  Granted not having ANY digital information is kind of suspicious these days so expect to be taken in the backroom, and have your physical information &#8216;rearranged&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: livingdots</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230553</link>
		<dc:creator>livingdots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230553</guid>
		<description>Reports about power mad airhead &quot;security guards&quot; confiscating property and behaving like idiots makes me not want to travel as a tourist to the US. I&#039;m sure I&#039;m not alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reports about power mad airhead &#8220;security guards&#8221; confiscating property and behaving like idiots makes me not want to travel as a tourist to the US. I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Kibble</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231322</link>
		<dc:creator>Kibble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231322</guid>
		<description>A question for those in the know:  Suppose I created a TrueCrypt volume in a file of reasonable size, let&#039;s say, 6 MB.  Nothing too huge.  Then I renamed it as a dll file, and put it in a directory with an actual app that has other dll&#039;s.

What are the odds that the $9-an-hour types in the airport would be able to figure out it&#039;s not a dll?

No, I&#039;ve never done this, and no, Mr. FBI Man reading this, I&#039;m not a criminal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A question for those in the know:  Suppose I created a TrueCrypt volume in a file of reasonable size, let&#8217;s say, 6 MB.  Nothing too huge.  Then I renamed it as a dll file, and put it in a directory with an actual app that has other dll&#8217;s.</p>
<p>What are the odds that the $9-an-hour types in the airport would be able to figure out it&#8217;s not a dll?</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;ve never done this, and no, Mr. FBI Man reading this, I&#8217;m not a criminal.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fredric</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230560</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fredric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230560</guid>
		<description>&quot;Which Supreme Court decision has created the precedent that Americans have no 4th Amendment rights at the border to our own country?&quot;

Sadly, that one is easy to answer. The Congressional Research Service published an extensive summary of the law recently:

&quot;Few exceptions to the presumptive warrant and probable cause requirements are more firmly rooted than the &#039;border search&#039; exception. Pursuant to the right of the United States to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into the country, routine border searches are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border.&quot;  
http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL31826_20080115.pdf </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Which Supreme Court decision has created the precedent that Americans have no 4th Amendment rights at the border to our own country?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sadly, that one is easy to answer. The Congressional Research Service published an extensive summary of the law recently:</p>
<p>&#8220;Few exceptions to the presumptive warrant and probable cause requirements are more firmly rooted than the &#8216;border search&#8217; exception. Pursuant to the right of the United States to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into the country, routine border searches are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL31826_20080115.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL31826_20080115.pdf</a> </p>
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		<title>By: buddy66</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-231847</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-231847</guid>
		<description>TAKUAN, earlier &amp; elsewhere &amp; to someone else, wrote:

&quot;ah! I see now. You were personally stung by my counseling young people to desert before they were trapped into killing the innocent for the profits of the elite and few. I stand by my words. Blood does not wash off. I feel sorrow for those who learned this too late or the hard way....&quot;

If you were indeed referring to your own credentials, however rhetorically worded, I lay the blame for misreading you on coincidental comment positioning and my own imagination. (Who would credit an old Trotskyist with being so thin-skinned?) Therefore, I am happy to retract my hasty accusation of slander, and hope that I have not slandered you.

Concerning that conversation you had with Greg London about conspiracy, let me venture, however belatedly, that Karl Marx never wrote a truer line than, &quot;The history of mankind is the history of class struggle.&quot; No further conspiracies are necessary.          </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TAKUAN, earlier &#038; elsewhere &#038; to someone else, wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;ah! I see now. You were personally stung by my counseling young people to desert before they were trapped into killing the innocent for the profits of the elite and few. I stand by my words. Blood does not wash off. I feel sorrow for those who learned this too late or the hard way&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you were indeed referring to your own credentials, however rhetorically worded, I lay the blame for misreading you on coincidental comment positioning and my own imagination. (Who would credit an old Trotskyist with being so thin-skinned?) Therefore, I am happy to retract my hasty accusation of slander, and hope that I have not slandered you.</p>
<p>Concerning that conversation you had with Greg London about conspiracy, let me venture, however belatedly, that Karl Marx never wrote a truer line than, &#8220;The history of mankind is the history of class struggle.&#8221; No further conspiracies are necessary.          </p>
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		<title>By: Brad_L</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/07/10/ny-times-editorial-o.html#comment-230573</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad_L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230573</guid>
		<description>I had my MacBook searched in Detroit after returning from a trip that took me to India and Thailand.  My initial interview with customs went like this:

Customs: Wow.  India and Thailand?
Me: Yes.
Customs: Are you traveling with anyone?
Me: No.
Customs: That&#039;s a lot of luggage for one person.
Me: I got some gifts for my wife and daughter.
Customs: Was this trip for business?
Me: No.
Customs: You went on vacation to India and Thailand without your family?
Me: Yes.
Customs: Blue line, please.

He wrote a code on my customs declaration and I went to the blue line.

In the blue line, a tag-team pair of early twenty-somethings checked my customs declaration and did a double take when one pointed at the code on my form.  They took me aside and one ran interference with my bags while the other took my laptop aside and proceeded with an image search of my hard drive.  After 25 minutes with my laptop and finding nothing of importance in my bags or computer, I was sent along and thanked for my understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had my MacBook searched in Detroit after returning from a trip that took me to India and Thailand.  My initial interview with customs went like this:</p>
<p>Customs: Wow.  India and Thailand?<br />
Me: Yes.<br />
Customs: Are you traveling with anyone?<br />
Me: No.<br />
Customs: That&#8217;s a lot of luggage for one person.<br />
Me: I got some gifts for my wife and daughter.<br />
Customs: Was this trip for business?<br />
Me: No.<br />
Customs: You went on vacation to India and Thailand without your family?<br />
Me: Yes.<br />
Customs: Blue line, please.</p>
<p>He wrote a code on my customs declaration and I went to the blue line.</p>
<p>In the blue line, a tag-team pair of early twenty-somethings checked my customs declaration and did a double take when one pointed at the code on my form.  They took me aside and one ran interference with my bags while the other took my laptop aside and proceeded with an image search of my hard drive.  After 25 minutes with my laptop and finding nothing of importance in my bags or computer, I was sent along and thanked for my understanding.</p>
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