A. Let’s defeat the bill and continue to allow illegal wiretaps on all communication, international and domestic, without recourse by the FISA courts

OR

B. Let’s pass the bill as a stopgap, that now puts restrictions on domestic wiretapping and makes the FISA court accountable to upholding the law for once.

hmmmm B seems like the better choice to me, put that on a poster MARK

Yep, you got me on that; Freedom Summer was four years prior to my arrival in this life.

@manwhore

I was a C student also, and I am observant enough to see that it’s not Bush’s plan that worked; someone else created the plan, he vocalized it.

So “hold your nose” as you vote. It’s the big thing this year, and the machine will probably just miscount your vote anyhow. Or you can hope.

Conservatives, or “a” conservative? We got that one covered too, buddy!

http://www.vctrsppstn.cm/ndx.php/st/cmmnts/pls_dnt_prrt_stpd_mms/

Oh noez, Not all conservatives are alike!

And this is not just anyone running here. This is someone who practically came out of nowhere riding on the hopes of millions who fear that the core of what America is about has been compromised almost beyond redemption by the Bush Administration and the party he represents. To reverse on this issue as a matter of practicality and vote to lock in the illegal and unconstitutional actions of the Bush Administration is a breach of considerable magnitude.

I wish that, instead of using a Bible when the President takes the oath of office, that the left hand is placed on a copy of the Bill of Rights. I hope I live long enough to see someone in that office treat with the reverence it deserves. I really thought for awhile that it would be Barak Obama. Now I’m not so sure.

I agree with Naomi Klein as mentioned above, (I too heard her on Democracy Now this morning) – we need to hold his feet to the fire or forget it.

do you even understand the issue? the bill that obama did vote for and everyone is whining about does require that a warrant is obtained through the FISA court for domestic wiretaps. UGH this bill does not cover international wiretaps. it’s called a compromise. this was not all or nothing, this was nothing or compromise.

In discussions some of my super-fan coworkers stumble all over themselves trying to explain away things like this.

A government spying on its people is never acceptable and if he was really interested in change, well, he might support censure…

This man looks less and less appealing to me as the days go on. There is a high chance my vote will be cast in his favor, but will I feel more dirty than I did when I voted for Kerry? Time will tell… in the meantime Obama will keep on approving bills that fund wars he claims not to support and roll over for individuals and corporations with the big bucks.

without discussions such as this I couldn’t see if what I believe is right for the US or not.

@78 Will:

“More importantly than flaming the opposing candidate, I believe it’s our duty as voters/citizens to question and hold accountable OUR candidate.”

I think we should have been doing this for some time; they do work for us, not for their own situation.

it will take a revolution to make the elected old men in our government wake up to their own ignorance.

If the Govt. has a reasonable cause to wiretap, why the hell can’t they get a warrant?

Of course they can. This is all just pussyfooting around the simple fact that they didn’t, which nobody seems willing to come right out and say.

In doing so they broke so many major laws that too many “important” people were involved, and would have to be sent to jail if this ever got into the courts. Hence, the investigation must be crushed at any cost.

Aren’t you about due for a new civil war by now?

Idiots. This is what is called “eating one’s own”. We’ll slowly destroy Obama so over single issues so that McCain can win the White House, appoint conservative judges to the Supreme Court that I guarantee will make you long for the days of Bush Jr. and continue to serve the needs of Exxon, Haliburton and the like. Oh, and if you think your civil liberties are at risk under Dubya or would be more so under Obama then I suggest you use the internet to research something other than headlines and talking points about all these people. But heck, go ahead, fight the right battles at the WRONG time. McCain and company will thank you.

People need to get some perspective and get a grip.

There are legitimate reasons to be pessimistic about politics. If that makes you want to punt on the whole thing and retreat to nihilistic defeatism, then go for it.

But if you do want to participate in this election, then please consider whether monkeywrenching Obama is really the most productive thing you can be doing.

Not particularly, No.

Not really, buddy was presenting a stupid comment to call attention to the stupidity of a separate comment. Age does not immediately make someone senile and fit to wield political power. I don’t support McCain but its not because of how old he is. I support Obama but its not because of what color he is.

Now try and discredit Obama while not mentioning the neo-con nazi’s.

Good luck with that.

I’m with you and your reasoning, Jelly; he’s got my vote, but I don’t think he is electable, and he’s getting less electable every day. Sad, but I’m almost getting used to voting for losers.

http://www.identifont.com/show?HU7

Oh, and watch your kerning, people. Thx.

(End of design pedantry.)

you are right. his total number of vetos is low. that’s becuase of the long standing republican majority that was just broken up. now that it isn’t there he is vetoing, even when it gets overturned easily! http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN15294660

“B. Let’s pass the bill as a stopgap, that now puts restrictions on domestic wiretapping and makes the FISA court accountable to upholding the law for once.”

Makes FISA court accountable to upholding the law for once? How exactly does it do that?

Once people start picking up on the fact that voting has lost almost all of the power it once held, and that any kind of meaningful or worthwhile change cannot come through either mainstream candidate, then things get ugly for the people in power.

Because then, people stop fetishizing their “vote” and start looking for other, more creative and effective ways of manifesting their political power. Because we are powerful, each of us. We’ve just invested all that power in the idea that politicians will represent us fairly. It’s time to reevaluate that investment, and get involved in other ways of participating in the socio-political environment.

Although maybe “scrubbed”is too harsh a verb. Perhaps they just unpublished it.

Rise up against your oppressors! It’s time for a change! I promise to oppress you in a more thoughtful, more effective manner! I will utilize the latest innovations in oppression technology and oppress you the right way!

Sinfest 2004-07-27 :.: Campaign 9

You politicians are full of shit. You’re all like, “Vote for me, and I’ll make sunshine come out of your butt!” And the people go, “Yes! Yes! Make sunshine come out of my butt!” And then you screw them!

then something in the machinations is working if everyone else starts to feel that way as well…

As far as politics are concerned, I’m convinced the politicians are like wrestlers – they all go drink beer at the same bar after the cameras are turned off. As long as our president isn’t in the oil business I don’t care who wins. My few liberal, conspiracy theory friends have me convinced that the super rich are the ones pulling the strings behind it all. Something about the Illuminati…