Anti-Scientology YouTube videos censored by the thousands

Discuss

90 Responses to “Anti-Scientology YouTube videos censored by the thousands”

  1. ZippySpincycle says:

    Tubman @11, that is just an awesome site, even if it is just a teensy bit passive-aggressive.

  2. Thinkerer says:

    They’re being prosecuted to pieces in France, since the French don’t recognize them as an organized religion at all — apparently the Scientologists couldn’t buy their way through the French government (and the existing Catholic influence) quite so easily as they have here.

    http://www.rfi.fr/actuen/articles/105/article_1546.asp

    Vive la liberté!!

  3. trr says:

    Calling it “tech” makes me LOL.

    This summer some Scientologists set up a booth at an outdoor event in our small town, offering some kind of counseling for diverse problems, and they had one of their “e-meters” there. If I’d had time and wasn’t with my family I would have taken up some of their time and gotten a few laughs.

    Yeah, you can solve anyone’s problems by measuring their galvanic skin response while asking them questions, I guess.

  4. trr says:

    Zippyspincycle,
    Yes, but he could have just said RTFM with a link to Google!
    ================

    “Replace “scientology” with “jesus” in his words and suddenly you have a video that very few would make such wide- spread fun of.”

    You have to be joking.

  5. johninsapporo says:

    Dear FOETUSNAIL,,

    “This is not about scientology’s adherents, but the actions of an corrupt organization, that obviously has enough institutional fear and paranoia that they feel they need to use these notices to silence critics. Don’t try to change the subject.”

    I’m sorry. I had no idea that I was trying to change the subject. I just don’t see a line where scientology’s adherents end and an organization begins. It really is the same thing. This is not “Don’t ask me about it, I only work here,” kind of situation. There is no “auditor’s union.” It’s not an “us and them,” situation at all. Does this communicate? I mean it’s not like a restaurant where you have staff and customers. It doesn’t really work as an analogy, but if we were going to use a restaurant and customers as something to compare Scientology with, the customers would also learn to cook and would be taking cookery courses, serving apprenticeships under the chefs and so on. People would be graduating cookery courses and going out and starting their own restaurants, sending their chefs in for further training and so on.

    Oh I’ve come across those who think they have status and act like they have something stuck up an orifice that’s usually reserved for the expulsion of substances, if you know what I mean. I live in fear of being disemvowelled! So I can’t say the “a” word, whether it’s spelled the English way – with an R or the American way – without one. But being stuck up is an aberration. It’s something the guy doesn’t want. It’s not him. It’s a reaction. As he has auditing, he gets rid of this kind of stuff. And just in case anyone thinks he’s being brainwashed, he isn’t. No one would say, “You gotta get rid of that stuck up stuff!” The auditor would just get him to take a look at a situation and without no suggestion or criticism on the auditor’s part, the guy getting audited would pull it apart and find out how he got to be that way. At which point, the behavior pattern would disappear.

    There was a guy at St Hill in England who had “CRITICAL” written all over his face. He never had a good word for anyone. His expression was a permanent sneer. I HATED him the first few times I met him. Then, as he got auditing, he got milder and milder and his face changed. All the criticism dropped away and he became himself.

    Once you could see the person himself, he was really nice. He was a very sensitive person, a poet, actually, very special.

    This kind of thing happens every day.

    Well, it would have to wouldn’t it? It’s only the fact that Scientology actually DOES get such tremendous results that is keeping it afloat.

  6. Jeff says:

    In These United States of America, you may practice nearly any dim-witted religion you care to, but you can also be criticized 24-7 by other Americans (or whomever via the net)– it’s our right. Let the ACLU take on this group of sci-fi-gone-religious-cult whack jobs. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the fracking kitchen.

  7. trr says:

    Johninsapporo,
    Look …and listen too.

  8. Takuan says:

    can’t the Patriot Act catch the $cientologists? If they had that around when they penetrated the US government, Elron Cupboard would have died in jail by now.

  9. mgfarrelly says:

    I’m sure that badgering their critics will help people see how fair and open Scientology can be.

    Wait a minute…

  10. Takuan says:

    I am still waiting for John to explain about Xenu – the main pillar of $cientologist belief.

    Freeyourcrt: You have not been paying attention. $cientology has been discussed on other occasions than that one sad actor’s public raving event. The evidence is damning and overwhelming. They are a dangerous racket.

  11. jimbuck says:

    I’m a Scientologist and I am very offended that you all are mocking my fake religion. Please stop, or I’ll sue.

  12. jjasper says:

    BBNinja @ # 10 – Its funny because Robert Heinlein wrote a famous book called Stranger in a Strange Land, in which the main character founds a ‘Church of All Worlds’, in the 1970s when a group of people took it so seriously they made an actual CAW what was Heinlein’s reaction? He laughed, it was comical to him.

    I’ve met some of the Church Of All Worlds people. They publish Green Egg Magazine, which is a general-purpose Pagan/Wiccan magazine. Basically, they’re eclectic pagans who took some rituals from the Heinlein books. So far as I know, they don’t take themselves too seriously either. They know that Heinlein laughed at the idea. They laugh at themselves too.

    They’re OK sorts. Totally non-scary. Not like Scientology.

  13. asuffield says:

    Strange that penalties are provided in law but that none of the mistaken/false takedown notices have been prosecuted.

    There must be some high legal barrier there or anti-DMCA organizations would be on it.

    The barrier is that perjury is a crime, not a civil infraction, so only the government can prosecute it. Random citizen organisations can’t do a thing.

    Why is your district attorney not prosecuting these cases, and when are you going to replace him with somebody who will?

  14. Foofski says:

    The link to the “Australian News Report” is slightly misleading. That video was taken from the program Today Tonight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_Tonight) – a baseless and inflammatory “Current Affairs” program developed by manic sensationalists.

  15. Yaruki Zero says:

    To me, Scientology’s inability to tolerate criticism is about the most damning thing about it. If you feel have to censor (or attack/destroy) your critics, your thing can’t be that worthwhile in the first place.

  16. johninsapporo says:

    On second thoughts I don’t think I want to know what some of you guys have Scientology mixed up with.

    It’s a real shame you are so narrow minded.

    “What you observe is what you observe. Look at things and life and others directly, not through any cloud of prejudice, curtain of fear or the interpretation of another.” L.Ron Hubbard

  17. BBNinja says:

    Replace “Scientology” with “RaptorJesus” in his words and suddenly you have a video that very few would make such wide- spread fun of.

  18. Takuan says:

    you are not going to say anything, are you?

  19. Takuan says:

    foofski; one post, just now.

  20. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:

    JJasper @2, PaulDrye @7, it helps when the district attorney who has jurisdiction understands the issues. I don’t know who it would be in this case; I learned the principle working with groups that fight other kinds of scams.

    Doug117 @9, Wikipedia is also good for sorting out abbreviations.

    BBNinja @10: Whatever your opinion of those or other denominations, they don’t belong in the same category as Scientology.

    Takuan @18, what do you figure the odds are that one or more TLA has ties with Scientology?

    TheMindFantastic @24: Shorter sentences! More paragraph breaks!

    Baldhead @25:

    Replace “scientology” with “jesus” in his words and suddenly you have a video that very few would make such widespread fun of.

    Yes? Replacing one proper noun with another will often have that effect. The question is whether it’s reasonable to swap those two.

    Marcel @28: Marcel, please — the Freemasons and Bilderbergers have higher standards than that.

    BBNinja @33, ZippySpinCycle @34, thank you for introducing me to Raptor Jesus. Somehow, He had hitherto escaped my notice.

    FreeYourCRT @37:

    3. Lastly, I recall that this whole “pile-on” started when Hollywood darling and high-profile Scientologist, Tom Cruise, shared his opinion on national television about the questionable practices and history of psychiatric profession. Up until that point, I don’t recall these throngs of “independent-minded” people having a problem with this group. To me, this thing reeks of a smear campaign.

    Throngs of independent-minded people have had problems with Scientology for decades now. If you just want the internet-related portion of the story, the Operation Clambake site is a good place to start. Also: the the alt.religion.scientology summary page. Wikipedia on alt.religion.scientology. Wikipedia on Scientology and the internet. The EFF’s summary and archive of legal cases involving Scientology. The “why we fight” page of Anonymous, a relatively recent anti-Scientology organization. A sample of tactics and campaigns that have been used: Denial of Service attacks. Claims of copyright violation. Flooding the nets with forged articles. Some summaries of earlier attacks dating from 1996, 1998, and 1998 again.

    Et cetera. This is an old and ongoing fight.

  21. Takuan says:

    for $cientologists, attacking the outsider is part of the package. To the previously powerless there is great appeal in finally belonging to a gang that can hurt other people. Even if they do take all your money and stuff.

  22. Takuan says:

    is any of this wrong?

    Xenu (also Xemu) (pronounced /ˈziːnuː/ or /ˈziːmuː/), according to Scientology founder (and science fiction writer) L. Ron Hubbard, was the dictator of the “Galactic Confederacy” who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[1] of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Scientology holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[2][3] Members of the Church of Scientology widely deny or try to hide the Xenu story.

    These events are known within Scientology as “Incident II”, and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire. The story of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that this material was “calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it.”[sic][4]

    Criticism of the Church of Scientology often includes details of the Xenu story. The Church has tried to keep Xenu confidential[5] but critics say the story should be made public, given the high prices charged for OT III, part of Scientology’s secret “Advanced Technology” doctrines taught only to members who have already contributed large amounts of money to the organization.[6] The Church avoids making mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story’s confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy. Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public, largely via the Internet.

  23. trr says:

    Update: the videos are back up.

  24. ZippySpincycle says:

    Replace “Scientology” with “RaptorJesus” and I might just subscribe to your newsletter.

  25. freeyourcrt says:

    #46.

    Again, I am not a Scientologist, and you’ll excuse me if I won’t be part of your mob. The Mormon temple in my town does not let me, or other non-members enter their building, nor film, or tape any of their ceremonies or proceedings. Would you like to come to town and storm their gates and expose their secrets? You can stay at my place. I could scrounge up some torches and stuff for you and your friends. Lastly, that some throw around the accusation of brain-washing is even more hilarious and kind of ironic to boot.

    G’nite.

  26. WA says:

    I’m actually rather happy about this incident. Before, most incorrect DMCA takedowns could plausibly explained as mistakes or differing interpretations of fair use, but this is so blatant that it forces the issue of abusive DMCA notices to be discussed seriously.

  27. Rossifumi says:

    Where do scientologists go when they die?

  28. johninsapporo says:

    If you’re going to discuss Scientology – at least discuss IT – as it is – NOT what as you imagine it is.

    “The ‘idee fixe’ is the bug in sanity.”

    “Whenever an observer himself has fixed ideas he tends to look at them, not at the information….”

    “History is full of idiocies – and idiots – with fixed ideas. They cannot observe beyond the idea.”

    “A fixed idea is something accepted without personal inspection or agreement. It is the perfect ‘authority knows best.’ It is the ‘reliable source’….

    “A fixed idea is uninspected. It blocks the existence of any contrary observation.”

    L.Ron Hubbard

    I’m personally glad that the videos have been removed from YouTube.

  29. BBNinja says:

    JJasper #20>
    True, I wouldn’t call CAW dangerous or cult-ish and would basically classify them as pretty run-of-the-mill pagans.

    Even if you take Heinlein’s book literally (although that wasn’t it’s intention) it doesn’t preach crazy in spades like Hubbard’s drivel.

    Hubbard on the other hand was way out there, and how he ever even convinced himself to believe that crap no one will ever know.

    Scenario:
    Scientologist gets in car crash with a semi. His body flies out of the car and is wedge into the semi’s grill. They can’t move the truck because its holding his body together.

    Fellow Scientologist arrives on the scene:
    “Jesus Hubbard! Your Thetan levels are all whack!”
    (motions to the paramedics to move away)
    “We need to get this man an e-meter reading right away!”
    (to the victim)
    “Hey fella, we’re gonna need another thousand dollars but I’m telling you this could save your life. I’m 100% positive your organs are liquid mush right now because the souls of a bunch of dead aliens were dumped on Earth a long time ago”
    (the Victim)
    “Charge my card!”

  30. themindfantastic says:

    Scientology has never seen the use of law as being a method of justice, they see it as a method to attack, and have no qualms about using spurious lawsuits (hundreds and thousands of them if required) to get at critics/suppressive persons. Since January the Church has been facing the foe known as Anonymous, whose main avenue of attack has been youtube video’s, yes they do protest outside churches around the world the first being in March of this year having around 9000 people worldwide protesting, however people are losing the lulz and dropping away from it, but the youtube video’s not just from the protests but research coordination (news stories aired on TV from everywhere) has been collecting these bits for others to see, and anytime you search for scientology on youtube you barely see the official stuff (which isn’t that popular), and just the critical works (which is intensely popular) and they are pretty pissed. So to see this happen is totally within the character of Scientology. I would love to see them get hit with fines for sending incorrect DMCA notices, as the lawyers have been spending a great deal of money on other things as of late as well… and given the overall attempts by the church to get fundraising from its members as of late ranging from the request that all members get new materials due to the idea that the tech within them was full of transcription errors, to get people to start preparing for the release of the OT9 and OT10 courses. They have been also spending lots of money on cleaning up the freewinds (it was found to have blue asbestos all over it) and if they got hit with thousands of dollars of fines, they might be crippled enough via the bottom line that they will not be able to make such missteps possibly have to give up holdings etc… that or have the celebrities yet again dig deep and try and bail them out…

    Still DMCA notices are chilling effects… but they are sincerely worried about ‘hearts and minds’ when it comes to Youtube video’s a battle they have been losing for sometime now. They are fighting back anyway they can…

  31. Takuan says:

    Fictionology! Heh!

  32. FoetusNail says:

    You guys have really done it now! I’d high tail it out of here, unless you want to come clean of course. The GO one day the OSA (O’ suh) the next. Better get one of those green on white legal messages the CMO runs around to tell you what to do. Abandon ship!

  33. Xopher says:

    I wish I had more training in psych, though of course people who do won’t diagnose someone they haven’t actually interviewed.

    That said, however, the crack-brained rantings which make up the Xenu story and a lot of the rest of $cientology sure do appear (to me, an admitted layman) to resemble the kind of elaborate delusional system that paranoid schizophrenics devise and believe—unless they get the medication they need.

    Now there are three kinds of people who found religions: charlatans, madmen, and people who had absolutely no intention of founding a new religion. It’s clear that Old Father Hubbard intended to found $cientology, but it’s less clear which of the others he was. I suspect he was a mixture of the two.

    Hating the idea of medication is typical of the unmedicated paranoid schizophrenic: they think the bad guys are trying to drug them into submission. Certainly they don’t believe in the zombie apocalypse/Martians bugging their brains/whatever when they’re taking the meds: when they’re on them, they see this difference for what it is, which is that the meds keep them from believing the crazy stuff. When they’re OFF the meds, they see this as “No! No! They’re putting the control insects back in!” or whatever.

    Note the combination: wacky story about evil entities attempting mind control, and resistance to psychotropic medications under circumstances that would lead any sane person to believe they’re called for. Hubbard even called some of his baddies “psychlos,” if I’m not mistaken. Subtle, Ron, real subtle.

    I saw a sickening story on TV a while back about $cientologist parents who refused to treat their schizophrenic son (except by whatever whacked-out pseudoscience they believed in). They got their karma when, predictably, he eventually went off the deep end and killed them both. But HE didn’t deserve to have his life destroyed by this obscene and reprehensible brainwashing cult.

    If that boy had been properly medicated and counseled, he could have been a productive member of society, albeit with crazy parents (and many of us have those). Instead, he’ll probably never be out of some institution or other.

    So even their core teachings are bad enough, but the way they behave toward outsiders and critics is beyond criminal. And they’re forming a fanatical militia, if my reading of the Sea Org is correct!

    The fact that they haven’t been prosecuted under RICO is apparently due to the fact that they have so much money that no elected official (District Attorneys, for example) dares take them on.

  34. Takuan says:

    I’ll bet you are, John.

    By the by, please drop the sig.line at the end of your posts if you would, they are frowned upon here for reasons of format.

  35. FoetusNail says:

    They’ll be back, again and again and again.

  36. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:

    But Jake, I give advice all the time. To excess, even.

  37. freeyourcrt says:

    This whole dog-pile on scientology thing is amusing to me. Three points.

    1. I am not nor have I ever been a Scientologist, though years back I knew some with substance abuse problems that found support and treatment for their addiction in the Scientology community.

    2. People who are involved in Scientology, as well as those involved in Christianity, Judaism, Budhism, and other religions or cults are free to practice their beliefs in this country as long as they don’t infringe on other people’s rights. You may not like their beliefs but they are free to practice them, and in my opinion protect themselves against persecution for the beliefs and practices.

    3. Lastly, I recall that this whole “pile-on” started when Hollywood darling and high-profile Scientologist, Tom Cruise, shared his opinion on national television about the questionable practices and history of psychiatric profession. Up until that point, I don’t recall these throngs of “independent-minded” people having a problem with this group. To me, this thing reeks of a smear campaign.

  38. FoetusNail says:

    You really do believe you are discussing scientology with a bunch of uniformed idiots. See that’s actually out tech and will lead you to underestimating your adversary. This is the outpoint, your known. Your secrets are out and your still trying to charge for the information, absolute, unadulterated idiocy.

  39. Jake0748 says:

    Johninsapporo – I was going to accuse you of never commenting except when popping up to defend Scientology. To my surprise, when looking at your comment history, I saw two or three comments on unrelated subjects. So, apologies for (almost) accusing you of something that you are (pretty much) not guilty of.

    Nevertheless, you seems to spend most of your energy on BB defending a “religion” that most of the rest of us consider odious. You refuse to answer, indeed ignore, direct questions. Do you really harbor some hope of changing any minds? What motivates you to continue banging your head against this particular wall?

  40. manicbassman says:

    ~37, I’ve got news for you… people have been trying to expose the scam that is Scientology now for decades…

  41. HotchkissHMG says:

    YouTomb might have some vids that weren’t reinstated.

  42. minTphresh says:

    @#36 rossifumi< they don’t go to heaven where the angels fly! they go to a lake of fire and fry! ( won’t see ‘em again ’til the 4th of ju-ly)

  43. FoetusNail says:

    Well, what have we learned today?

    We have learned:
    NEVER join a religion that wants your card number.
    NEVER join a religion that trims off body parts.
    NEVER join a religion that needs batteries.
    NEVER join a religion that has death penalties.
    NEVER join a religion that has martyrs, you might volunteer.
    NEVER join a religion waiting for a savior, you don’t have the time!

  44. EastAnon says:

    John Davis,

    You are absolutely right. Our truths don’t match.

    Please see what’s true for Mark Headley:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk0NLEohgKo

    And then tell me where he is lying?

    Or watch what’s true for Graham Berry:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvMoSsuRVW8

    Some of the more informed European countries are finally taking action against this criminal organisation. Both these video’s were taken from the conference in Hamburg on Sept. 7 this year.
    Other speakers were Jason Beghe, Larry Brennan, Dr. Stefan Schulz and Ursula Caberta. Video’s will follow.

    John, i’m not saying you’re not a good person. I simply don’t know. I’m not saying the tech does not work, although i think Lafayette Ron Hubbard was too much of a crook to be able to make anything work.
    What i am saying is that the organisation of Scientology is criminal. This will be stopped. If not by you, then by anonymous, the governments, the FBI and the SEC (yes, the SEC).
    Do you still want to be attached to the “most ethical group on the planet” when that happens?

  45. HenKaiPan says:

    @johninsapporo If you want to quote us Hubbard, that’s fine. But you have to recognize that you are defending a group of people – not Hubbard – from specific accusations about specific actions made by the Scientology organization – such as litigious harassment, and the policy of ‘fair game’.

    If you want to tell us that Hubbard is very wise and has improved your life, that’s cool, go ahead I guess (though it seems a little off-topic). If however you are here to defend a group from accusations of particular bad actions, then you need to tell us why we should believe you, not just quote nice words.

    If anyone can win an argument by quoting their holy book, no conversation would ever get anywhere, because all sides can play that game with equal skill.

    Please show your respectful interlocutors respect by answering their specific questions.

    For instance, you said above (in #54) that you are “personally glad that the videos have been removed from YouTube”. Will you please tell me why that is? Are _all_ of them 100% lies?

  46. johninsapporo says:

    Thank you FREEYOURCRT, for something that makes sense.

    What an amazing collection of heated opinion from people who know nothing about it.

    “Look. See what you see, not what someone tells you that you see.” L.Ron Hubbard

    “What you observe is what you observe. Look at things and life and others directly, not through any cloud of prejudice, curtain of fear or the interpretation of another.” L.Ron Hubbard

    “Instead of arguing with others, get them to look.” L.Ron Hubbard

  47. freeyourcrt says:

    #38

    They’ve been trying the same with Christianity and Judaism too. Does that really make a difference?

    Again, I have no dog in this fight so to speak. But I find the sight of people getting worked up over something that really doesn’t personally effect them, provoked largely by a “viral” internet marketing campaign, amusing.

  48. johninsapporo says:

    “The ‘idee fixe’ is the bug in sanity.”
    I posted this:

    “Whenever an observer himself has fixed ideas he tends to look at them, not at the information….”

    “History is full of idiocies – and idiots – with fixed ideas. They cannot observe beyond the idea.”

    “A fixed idea is something accepted without personal inspection or agreement. It is the perfect ‘authority knows best.’ It is the ‘reliable source’….

    “A fixed idea is uninspected. It blocks the existence of any contrary observation.”

    L.Ron Hubbard

    Of course, people like EASTANON didn’t even see it. They have made up their minds about Scientology without looking at it.

    Well, why bother to actually read what Hubbard wrote? What’s the point if you know ALL about it already?

    I am very willing to discuss. That means that there has to be an exchange of ideas.

  49. Xopher says:

    Hmm, I used the term ‘karma’ correctly above (the natural consequences of actions, not what you “deserve”) then turned around and said “but HE didn’t deserve…” which implies that the parents did deserve it.

    They didn’t. No one deserves to be stabbed to death by their own son. (Well, some people do, but it’s not something I want to be saying about these people.) What I should have said was that the son didn’t have any karma (at least in this incarnation) that was being paid by the complete destruction of his life.

    It’s like this. There’s this guy, OK, and he breaks into the door with the DANGER! HIGH VOLTAGE! sign. Then he busts open the cage labeled DO NOT ENTER WHEN POWER IS ON, knowing full well that the power is on, because the lights are going and whatnot. There’s this thing in there with a sign that says LETHAL VOLTAGE! IF YOU TOUCH THIS YOU WILL DIE! He touches it.

    Does he deserve to have his soft bits explode and his hard bits char? No, not really, but it’s hard to feel sorry for him. But if the short he causes burns down the town, it’s EASY to feel sorry for the townspeople.

    That’s what I’m saying about the parents and kid respectively.

  50. FoetusNail says:

    Scientology: Jason Beghe Interview Tease

    This is something I’ve posted before that applies in spades to this abusive and dangerous cult.

    BEN and THE FANATIC

    In his teachings, Ben stressed that Zen was his path because it allowed him to become himself. All other routes that allegedly lead to cosmic consciouness seemed to put him in conflict with his own nature. He advised all seekers to examine carefully what each system asked of the potential initiate, keeping in mind three simple rules:

    1. What you are required to believe is what the system cannot prove.

    2. Anything that you are asked to keep secret is of more value to the teacher than the student.

    3. Any practice that is forbidden offers something that the system cannot sucessfully replace with an alternative.

    Excerpt from the book Zen Without Zen Masters by Camden Benares

  51. FoetusNail says:

    It would surprise if they were regular members, it would not surprise me if they are Osuh. If they aren’t Osuh, they might want to remain anon, because they’re probably not hatted for this work.

  52. Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator says:

    Well, golly. If it isn’t johninsapporo, a.k.a. John Davis, our resident defender of Scientology. You can see him in action on this thread.

    Two notes on that thread: (1.) The overall story arc is that the other participants got tired of johninsapporo’s not-very-responsive explanations of Scientology, and tried to experimentally ascertain the rule set under which he was working. (2.) After comment #300 or so, ignore comments that don’t mention Scientology or johninsapporo, but do mention insects or the Owist sect. It was a long thread, and the last commenters standing got a little punchy toward the end.

  53. Baldhead says:

    I can see Scientologists getting pissed- to my view much of the criticisms aimed at them are at the very least excessive. A good example is that leaked Tom Cruise video. Replace “scientology” with “jesus” in his words and suddenly you have a video that very few would make such wide- spread fun of.

    Having said that, one of the reasons people poke them is because they thrash so much when poked. They behave like the guy who wants to beat you up because you mention that he has spinach in his teeth.

    Not to mention that non- religious folks like poking holes in religions (or, more accurately, pointing out the holes already there from the beginning) and few religions have as many holes as Scientology.

  54. Takuan says:

    My position is very simple and clear. I am satisfied that $cientology is a racket. It is about making money for a few insiders, it has NO other purpose. I have seen enough evidence over the years to know that $cientology hurts people and even kills people. I am satisfied $cientology has absolutely no remorse or restraint in how they attack anyone who opposes them or blocks their profit taking. I believe $cientology follows no moral or ethical code and recognizes no rule of law anywhere in anyway. I have concluded $cientology has nothing whatsoever positive or constructive to contribute to mankind or history.

    As a consequence I will oppose and denounce $cientology at every turn. I encourage every thinking person to do the same.

  55. Jake0748 says:

    I agree with Takuan above. I wouldn’t even give a shit (I mean who cares about dorky cults, there’s alot of other stuff in the world to worry about), if they weren’t so aggressive about ruining people that they consider to be a threat.

    I don’t even really understand why $cientology still exists. I guess its because they have a lot of money.

    My only other comment is I’m jealous of TNH’s comment to #24. I mean free advice from a for-real book editor? Take it and run Mindfantastic. :)

  56. FoetusNail says:

    This is not about an exchange of ideas. This is not a simple one point ARC break. There will never be any affinity because scientology has invented its own reality apart from the other 6 BILLION people on the planet. I’m sure someone was assigned to create a report on our posts (poor bastard) so you must know it is not just scientology, but most organized religion we find troublesome. The third point, is scientology doesn’t communicate and by issuing these take down notices is proving they don’t want others communicating either. The group that is going to to change the world will by necessity have no secrets and no copyright. If scientology wanted real affinity, if they wanted real change they would fix their reality to match conditions, which requires losing their own fixed ideas. And the only way to do this is by coming clean, a baptism of communication. scientology shows its weakness by trying to silence others instead of communicating. If your tech causes case gains then you have nothing to fear. However, the opposite must be true. After fifty plus years scientology has fewer than a million members. So, free up knowledge, accept responsibility, and realize you don’t need to control everything; the world’s affinity will increase, your reality will not have walls, or us and them. The world will listen. If you trust the tech and the tech works then why is scientology afraid of critics?

  57. padster123 says:

    CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT! CULT!

  58. jjasper says:

    How is this not an organized criminal conspiracy? If you’re engaging in harassing people for legal criticism, in an organized way, with a well funded organization, how is that just organized crime?

  59. codesuidae says:

    It seems like there ought to be a penalty for issuing DMCA take-downs that turn out to be incorrect.

    I think $100,000 per notice would be reasonable.

  60. asuffield says:

    It seems like there ought to be a penalty for issuing DMCA take-downs that turn out to be incorrect.

    There is. It’s perjury, the penalty in the US is up to five years jail.

    The question you need to ask is, why are they not being prosecuted?

  61. Brian Damage says:

    “accounts were suspended by YouTube in response to multiple allegations”

    YouTube is taking definitive action due to unsubstantiated allegations. Class act.

  62. dfletcher says:

    #37

    So, the brainwashing is fine, because they got treatment for their drug issue?

    It’s just trading one evil up for another.

    These guys are BAD news.

  63. johninsapporo says:

    I honestly wonder what it is that some of you guys have Scientology mixed up with.

    “False data can come from many sources: academic, social, professional. Many want you to believe things just to suit their own ends. What is true is what is true for you. No one has any right to force data on you and command you to believe it or else. If it is not true for you, it isn’t true. Think your own way through things, accept what is true for you, discard the rest. There is nothing unhappier than one who tries to live in a chaos of lies.” L.Ron Hubbard

  64. CB says:

    Ha!

    “The Church of Scientology in France will be tried in court for “organised fraud”, according to legal sources.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7604311.stm

  65. johninsapporo says:

    FOETUSNAIL, there are things you say that make sense. I’d like to reply to some of them:

    “This is not about an exchange of ideas.”
    Fair enough. Exchange of ideas is not something I’ve ever experienced on BoingBoing – AND I’m perfectly willing to accept that that has to do with me and my standpoint on Scientology.

    But let’s just have a stab it it.

    “This is not a simple one point ARC break.”
    Gosh. You can say that again!

    “There will never be any affinity because scientology has invented its own reality apart from the other 6 BILLION people on the planet.”
    Wow! you know the viewpoint of six billion people! I take my hat off to you!

    “I’m sure someone was assigned to create a report on our posts (poor bastard)”
    Oh I doubt it. If you are saying that the COS assigned someone to create a report on these posts, I personally doubt it. This isn’t a site that has much influence. It’s pretty much a backwater.

    “so you must know it is not just scientology, but most organized religion we find troublesome.”
    Well, at least you say “most” organized religion, leaving yourself an out. I’d be interested to know what organized religion you don’t find troublesome.

    “The third point, is scientology doesn’t communicate”
    You may be amazed to find that I partially agree with you. BUT – it is getting better. It learns.

    “and by issuing these take down notices is proving they don’t want others communicating either.”
    Well, let’s be honest here. Are all these YouTube videos that were taken down really telling it like it is? Personally, I would think that they have something else going on. And the truth is being considerably bent. But then, I haven’t watched all of them. To be honest, I don’t have the stomach for it. For the same reason, I’ve never sat through a whole Michael Moore movie. I don’t disagree with what he’s saying, but all that carping criticism is just too much.

    “The group that is going to to change the world will by necessity have no secrets and no copyright.”
    In an ideal world that would be true. Unfortunately this is not ideal and there are people who try to turn a “Good morning,” into an incite to riot.

    “If scientology wanted real affinity, if they wanted real change they would fix their reality to match conditions, which requires losing their own fixed ideas.”
    Surprisingly they/we don’t have many and those we do have drop by the wayside as we get auditing.

    “And the only way to do this is by coming clean, a baptism of communication. scientology shows its weakness by trying to silence others instead of communicating.”
    If they would shut up for a minute and just listen, take in a little information instead of knee-jerk reacting, I would agree what you are saying. But they don’t. They, like many people posting on this forum, just make a noise.

    “If your tech causes case gains then you have nothing to fear.”
    Who said we fear?

    “However, the opposite must be true. After fifty plus years scientology has fewer than a million members.”
    You have a point. However, I question your figures. It depends of course, how you define a scientologist. That would be an argument that would go nowhere. Certainly there should be more scientologists. But I wonder if you have an unbiased enough viewpoint to look at why that is.

    “So, free up knowledge, accept responsibility, and realize you don’t need to control everything; the world’s affinity will increase, your reality will not have walls, or us and them. The world will listen. If you trust the tech and the tech works then why is scientology afraid of critics?”
    I don’t know that Scientology is one thing to be afraid or not afraid. Most scientologists I know are too busy doing their thing, auditing people, training people, getting audited, getting training, helping people in one way or another. You probably have some idea of what I mean – the level of dedication is something many people have no idea of.

  66. FoetusNail says:

    This is not about scientology’s adherents, but the actions of an corrupt organization, that obviously has enough institutional fear and paranoia that they feel they need to use these notices to silence critics. Don’t try to change the subject.

  67. pauldrye says:

    They’re not being prosecuted because, to date, not a single case of this has been prosecuted: i.e., either prosecutorial laziness or indifference.

  68. Takuan says:

    the lie repeated until it drowns the truth, another $cientology trademark. Imagine what it must be like for some unfortunate, unwary victim who stepped into their parlor. The same relentless pounding with absurd “maxims” until malnutrition and sleep deprivation do their work. We owe a debt of gratitude to John Davis – no better illustration of why $cientology is evil and must be fought.

  69. Christopher Lotito says:

    This is easily one of the best things that can happen for American copyright law at this time.

    The surest sign that a thing is broken is when it is lying on its side in the corner, smoldering, with oil leaking out. Occurrences such as this jackhammer application of the law by a large well funded group against a poorly funded multitude of individual citizens (and passionate ones at that), ensures that the DMCA will be tested, examined, and questioned hundreds of times in court as a result.

    As far as I’m concerned, the DMCA, though having legitimate uses, is often used as a constitutional hack to quickly circumvent the rights of others with a minimal amount of effort. …and as with any other hack, it will only keep working until the moderators (in this case the Supreme Court) finally get around to closing it. The more it’s abused, the quicker this will happen. Grab a beer and watch the system work my friends… or if you’re feeling energetic, get in on whatever the EFF is cooking up in response.

    IANAL and I did not RTFA and I’m cool with that.

  70. FoetusNail says:

    Freeyourcrt said,

    Again, I have no dog in this fight so to speak. But I find the sight of people getting worked up over something that really doesn’t personally effect them, provoked largely by a “viral” internet marketing campaign, amusing.

    You are not a scientologist and you’ve got no dog in this fight, then why are you here? This does affect us. This is a small but dangerous cult seeking to illegally use DMCA takedown notices to squash free speech. First of all if your, I mean their, religion has real value then what is the harm? Why keep secrets? Everything scientology professes to teach is available. Why reword L Ron’s work to renew copyright? Why does a religion need anything copyrighted except to control access and protect revenue. Face it your, sorry did it again, their religion is about one thing, brainwashing those whose parents didn’t teach them how to avoid scams and bleeding every last dollar out of them.

  71. mdh says:

    My local Unitarian church offers unlimited data download, free of charge. Service is intermittent, about once a week. Works for me. I even hit the tip jar.

  72. Jake0748 says:

    To quote my own self, “You refuse to answer, indeed ignore, direct questions”.

    Thanks for nothing, John. You’re getting really boring.

  73. codesuidae says:

    Strange that penalties are provided in law but that none of the mistaken/false takedown notices have been prosecuted.

    There must be some high legal barrier there or anti-DMCA organizations would be on it. Or maybe pushing that issue just doesn’t make a point that is within the strategy of such organizations.

    That would tend to leave it to the people who had been attacked to come up with a legal offense of their own. And since they have their videos back anyway, why bother?

  74. FoetusNail says:

    This is quite simple, an organization claims to have tech that will save the human race from the remains of dead aliens. After 50 years they are not only still a marginal fringe group, but they are not even considered a religion in some relatively liberal countries. The organization’s leadership has gotten rich and some have been convicted of crimes. The ratio of critics to the organization’s members is disproportionate. The organization is desperately seeking to silence its critics. It doesn’t matter what LRH said any more than it matter’s what Christ may have said, not that I am equating the two. It matters what their respective organizations are doing today. scientology spends millions of dollars in member’s fees, I mean donations, to attack and silence critics. It is likewise unimportant what the critics have to say. scientology has not produced the wins and in fact has created an opposition. If the organization’s leaders had any real faith in the tech they would not spend a dime. The positive results would speak for them and there would not be any real number of critics. The insecurity and actions of the leadership, betrays your rhetoric, and shows their lack of faith in the validity of their tech.

  75. manicbassman says:

    THere’s a post on slashdot which may be getting at the root reason for all these DMCA takedown notices… In order to get your material rehosted by Google, you have to file a DMCA counter claim and the “attack” may be a means to get the real identities of the posters of the videos so that they can be harassed by the usual Scientologist methods which they used to call “fair game”…

  76. Ugly Canuck says:

    IIRC the French are going after them as participants in an organized fraud.
    I find that amusing as I feel that all religions are examples of sophisticated (and organized) frauds.
    PS OT – Notes for a history of thought: Concept of “organization”- must have arisen once bio-science had elucidated the “division of labor” amongst the bodily organs. Probably a 19th Century concept considering the very great emphasis on ‘organization’ in the early- mid twentieth century eg Commies, Nazis and other political movements.
    Or did bio-science borrow the concept from politics?

  77. doug117 says:

    Awright…
    What is EFF?
    What is DMCA?
    What is IANAL? and
    What is RTFA?

  78. FoetusNail says:

    At Saint Hill he often talked about his track [past lives]. One he talked about more than once was the fact that on various planets he had hidden away treasure or was owed back pay. He talked about that more than once at Saint Hill and in ’67 or ’68 he had the Mission Into Time and what he was looking for was caches of stored treasure he had left behind. Now he has left money in trust with various people which he is going to come back and pick up in another lifetime.

    I cannot accept the fact that he and other have lived before, many lifetimes, but part of his motivation is to come back and pick up his money. He definitely had tremendous abilities and skills in what he was doing, in this area of mental and spiritual abilities, very definitely superior.

    I am convinced he believed it himself. I think he believed it was true, but one can make up things and believe they were true.

    Interview with Ken Urquhart, Mclean, Virginia, Apr/May 86

  79. BBNinja says:

    Hence you see, as I have seen in numerous other cases where DMCA is flawed. In a country and many countries where you’re supposedly innocent until proven guilty, the DMCA resides as a long-standing joke, turned on its tail, favoring those who hide behind anonymous names or corporations.

    Church of Lientology ^_^

    Fnl Bttl: Cthlcs, Mrmns, Scntlgsts…n hlds brrd, tr lst mn stndng…plc yr bts flks!

    Its funny because Robert Heinlein wrote a famous book called Stranger in a Strange Land, in which the main character founds a ‘Church of All Worlds’, in the 1970s when a group of people took it so seriously they made an actual CAW what was Heinlein’s reaction? He laughed, it was comical to him.

    Where on the other hand, you have a hack horrible ‘writer’ Hubbard, who writes a book so gawd-awful it shouldn’t even have been published, and gets a bunch of bored rich people to fork over money.

    Isaac Hayes (Chef) didn’t have problems making funny of any other religion, people, or races until Scientology got brought up on South Park, then he got all boo-hoo. What we need is some good ole’ fashioned pitch fork and torches persecution!

  80. Marcel says:

    Can’t we have a Scientology/Freemasons merger for simplicty’s sake?

    Oh, and put some Bilderberg on that please!

  81. doug117 says:

    Thanks #11

  82. arkizzle says:

    Baldhead..

    Being a Scientologist, when you drive past an accident, it’s not like anyone else, it’s, you drive past, you know you have to do something about it. You know you are the only one who can really help. That’s what drives me.

    Being a Christian, when you drive past an accident, it’s not like anyone else, it’s, you drive past, you know you have to do something about it. You know you are the only one who can really help. That’s what drives me.

    Nope, It’s hopelessly nutso either way. Step back Tom, let the paramedics through.

  83. Xenu says:

    I’m glad we have our own Scientology shill here on BoingBoing.

    Keep up the good work, John. You’re helper Scientology look even more petty and self-absorbed.

  84. Rob says:

    @CodeSuidea:

    I disagree.

    Take the maximum fine for willful copyright violation. Triple it (ala RICO). That puts it closer to a million or more.

  85. Ugly Canuck says:

    Seems that there ought to be a non-centralized way of serving up vids so as to dodge censorship and US Gov attempts to beef up “copyright” which has had IMO the effect of easing the control and censorship of public discourse by by means of Private Law.

Leave a Reply