By Mark Frauenfelder at 4:49 pm Fri, Sep 26, 2008
TOM HALE@35: “if Democrats didn’t support abortion, gun control(removal as in Australia), illegal immigrants, socialized health care, and same sex marriage (what did I forget?), I’d be a Democrat myself.”
I’ll be your pal and try to help educate you (though it’s better to try to seek out the facts yourself, form objective sources, not the one’s who told you the things you listed.)
Democrats don’t support abortion. They support a woman’s right to choose whether to bring life into this world. Too many are brought into this world who are not loved, and that is truly immoral. Why don’t the Republicans try to help children below the poverty line to eat or be educated?
Democrats don’t want to take away all of your guns. They simply believe that certain types of guns (i.e. assault rifles) have no place in the hands of civilians, for they can really serve little purpose, especially not hunting, in a civilized society.
Democrats do not support illegal immigrants. They support minorities trying to get a piece of the American Dream, but not one of them has said: “You know, lets let the illegal immigrants overrun this country.” If anyone supports illegal immigrants, it is Republicans who want to make it harder for people to gain the status of citizen, and who hire them because they are cheap labor (cheaper than the minimum wage they want to keep so low people can’t possibly live on it) and don’t unionize. I live in Texas, which is right next to Mexico, so, in the Republican book, this should give me all the foreign policy experience I need to make such statements authoritatively.
Socialized heath care? Yes, they do believe that the European model could teach us a few things, but it is not nearly as socialist as giving a huge bailout to buy up all the bad debt of banks who should go under if conservatives really mean what they have droned to us over and over about laissez faire capitalism. If you don’t like the socialism label, then refuse to participate in what it stands for across the board.
Same sex marriage: Democrats don’t believe in it, they just don’t believe it is the government’s business to specify which gender people can couple with, and to what extent. That’s back to the whole separation of church and state thing the founding fathers imbued into our Constitution. Again, it’s nobody’s business but the two who wish to marry. Why should the government get in the way, especially if you believe (like conservatives espouse vehemently) that it should be small and not impede one’s liberties.
What did you leave out? A lot actually. You left out that Democrats believe that our society and our economy thrive when there is a strong middle class. They believe in less taxes for the middle class and not all of those sweeping tax breaks for the richest 1% of the country who are not surviving paycheck to paycheck like the rest of us. They believe people have the right to earn a fair wage, and to unionize of they see fit.
They don’t believe that special interests and corporations should have a free hand to muck up the economy as they see fit. That’s how we got into this mess on Wall St.
They believe in racial and gender equality.
They believe that diplomacy is the first and best foreign policy, which means they know what the bush Doctrine is, unlike Sarah Palin. and are against it. They don’t believe in war profiteering and no-bid contracts to cronies.
They believe in balancing the budget, and not spending our way into oblivion.
They believe in helping the poor in times of need, feeding the hungry, and providing the best education possible for those who cannot afford private schools.
They believe in accountability, and transparency in government, because, after all, it is here to serve the people, not the other way around.
They believe more in the actual concepts of liberty, democracy, and justice, than the symbols for these things.
They believe in all of the amendments of the Bill of Rights, including the 2nd one, and not just the 1st, but they believe the founding fathers put it first for a good reason, for without it, we have little else.
If you find yourself believing in these things too, then welcome to the Democratic Party. The next round’s on me.
oh man, that clip was so funny it brought tears to my eyes!
I dont’ know about all this moralizing in the commments though. I just think it was a good laugh, a good manifestation of Damon’s words.
starcadia, morality must come from somewhere, and if morality is internal, then it is subjective. a subjective morality leads to one saying “well.. it’s ok to drop serin gas on that ethnic group in the north. no one really knows they’re there anyway, and if you think it’s right, who am i to tell you you’re wrong?”
EITHER, one is right, or one is wrong. this can only be determined if their decisions are held up against an objective standard. while religion may not be the appropriate place to find that standard, it may also BE the only place to find it. To write off his comment simply because you refuse to accept that morality IS objective is to write off the objective nature of reality.
if morality is internal, then it is subjective. a subjective morality leads to one saying “well.. it’s ok to drop serin gas on that ethnic group in the north
No, that’s precisely wrong. Terrorists suffer from externally imposed morality.
Subjectivism/relativism leads to results just as silly as externally-imposed religious “morality.” Plenty of people want to restrict marriage for religious reasons, for instance, but plenty others want to restrict it because of an internal prejudice – a “feeling” – that they’ve failed to examine.
Agreed with #46. Dunno why every mention of the election has to degrade into personal jabs.
Funny spoof. ‘Nuff said.
“serin” in the north? Oh! Viet Nam!
I would pay good money to see this. Bt ‘m stll vtng fr McCn-Pln. Hhhh.
And scary. And sad.
The fake Palin was way better looking than the real one! This country is a scary place right now. :)
This is just another trick from the out-of-touch, Left Wing, Limousine Liberal, majority population to try to convince us that Sarah Palin isn’t qualified to be President just because she’s grossly unqualified to be president.
Nice try BIG BLOG but I’m not buying it.
This would be the sequel.
#1. If they win, we’ll get to live this movie. Every day.
#34 – plenty of that going on lately.
“‘m gnn b Vc Pwncss!!1″
Ths VP cnddt s s wrthlss s ny n f yr mm’s stpd frnds.
‘m tlkng FlthyRchmnd.cm wrthlss.
I’ve suspended your account for blogwhoring.
@4 SE7A7N7: If you cannot make fun of the people in political power (or potential political power) you lose a lot more than a few laughs.
The poets made fun of Julius back in his day and it’s said he laughed along with them.
Wesley on Making Light pointed out that it’s like we’re living in an article from The Onion.
Amazing how fast and professional they were able to make this video. I won’t comment about politics on this one other than: It would be nice if they were to make one poking fun at Palin’s opponents. For that though, I’ll probably have to wait for SNL to make one. They have a history of being fairly equal with their politically offensive sketches. Again, College Humor did an outstanding job.
While the video has its funny moments, it has very little of the subtlety or earnestness that made the original Matt Damon quip work. Damon’s comments on Palin come across as sarcastic, but in a way that showed his genuine concern. This video takes a clever 20 seconds and pumps it up with ye ol’ partisan vitriol for a full minute and a half. To me, it just comes across as smug in a way the original doesn’t.
She certainly nailed the Voice. *shudder
#11 is there an obligation to be “fair and balanced” when one side is a moral horror?
If they made a satirical video mocking racist people, should they also make one in favor of racism?
Check out number four.
True, MP, I’ve noticed this too, that a startling number of people are bungling the definition of morality. That’s my point, and that’s why I think education is so important. This country is making its biggest decisions based on an ignorant version of morality!
#25 “As to the morality issue, morality is supposed to come from inside.”
Antinous, there may be a biological foundation for your statement.
Putin was mentioned again… Medvedev is (theoretically) the leader of Russia, not Putin. The fact that we keep talking about Putin makes me wonder if Cheney gets as much attention in other parts of the world.
Nobody in Russia or the rest of the planet has the slightest doubt that Putin is running Russia. Medvedev took Putin’s old job due to term limits, then promptly made Putin Prime Minister. He is the central fact of Russian politics and will likely remain so for decades.
3 dictionary results for: morals
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) – Cite This Source – Share This
morÂ·al /ËˆmÉ”rÉ™l, ËˆmÉ’r-/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[mawr-uhl, mor-] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.
10. the embodiment or type of something.
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.
[Origin: 1300â€“50; ME < L mÅrÄlis, equiv. to mÅr- (s. of mÅs) usage, custom + -Älis -al1]
9 dictionary results for: ethics
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) – Cite This Source – Share This
ethÂ·ics /ËˆÉ›Î¸Éªks/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[eth-iks] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
1. (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
2. the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4. (usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
Compare axiological ethics, deontological ethics.
[Origin: 1400â€“50; late ME ethic + -s3, modeled on Gk tÃ Ã©thikÃ¡, neut. pl.]
â€”Synonyms 2. See moral.
@SISTERLY, I’m really trying to be nice here after being suspended for a week. You said, “one side is a moral horror?” !! Look up the word Morality in the dictionary – compare it to what the average US citizen believes is moral-in a religious perspective. After all, unless I’m wrong, morality in the US is generally considered to be based on our major religion (which I won’t name here). Then decide which political party is the most moral based on their MAIN differences.
Rather than get in a big political argument, lets just agree that College Humor did a great job, regardless of your political leanings.
morality in the US is generally considered to be based on our major religion
Wow. You just cut up your credibility and set it on fire. An externally imposed moral compass? Lasciate ogni speranza.
from which I derive; morals are what we might share, ethics are mine.
Um. So it turns out that there’s this branch of philosophy called ethics, that tries to use rationality to figure out what is actually morally right. Religions have rules and rituals, but they’re not necessarily based on morality. (Read Euthyphro.)
“Wow. You just cut up your credibility and set it on fire. An externally imposed moral compass? Lasciate ogni speranza.”
SISTERLY mentioned morals first – and I did qualify it with “unless I’m wrong.” About my credibility – I’m a deep south, high school educated Republican – I doubt if I will ever gain much credibility with most of the posters on BB. If I make a faux pas in my comment as I apparently did in my last – my apologies. I plead ignorance.
I do know, and am very familiar with what I want and expect from my party. If I express it wrong or step over some unknown boundary in my comments – trust me, it’s not on purpose.
And to the moderator that did it, thanks for fixing my name.
You’re welcome for the name change. As to the morality issue, morality is supposed to come from inside. Externally imposed morality leads to things like flying planes into skyscrapers. Even if you never did anything evil, if I were the divine, I’d call it cheating because it shows no depth of character.
It’s funny, ‘even in cases of incest and rape’ !!!
Oh, sorry – that’s SISTER Y – an edit button would be nice.
I think the main reason they’re not making fun of Obama/Biden is because they’re not funny. There isn’t comedy in the very notion of either of them being a head of state.
Starcadia – 70:
Maybe I’m reading too much into Tom Hale’s comment @17, but I think that many Americans do conflate religion and morality. I’m not saying it’s right that they do, but that I’ve noticed the tendency, and enough do so that it’s part of the American political landscape. We can talk all day about how religion and morality are not the same, but to a significant number of people, they are. I agree that they are different, but the reality of the situation is that many people don’t.
Also, my vote really doesn’t matter due to how the Electoral College is set up. I live in Illinois, so no matter how I vote, the state will still likely go to Obama. We can argue popular vote, but that didn’t make a difference in 2000. I’ll still go to vote for the lower offices on election day, but I might just skip over the line for president.
Just a few thoughts from li’l ol’ unsophisticated me…
Also, more on topic, I liked the video, and I loved the comment @69 by Sister Y. I just picture Palin stumped by a question, so she asks for a timeout so she can “take care of Trig”…
Phikus, in your list of Democrat values, only your description of socialized medicine is unique to the Democrat party. I share all of the other values you mentioned, and I consider myself a fairly hardcore libertarian. The Republican friends I have would agree with almost all of that as well. Just because someone isn’t a Democrat doesn’t mean they are Bush-like and evil.
Wow! “Fake Disney movie trailer” post, and right above it an ad for, Disney! Co-inky-dink? Or, it’s a small web after all? (sing it, you know the tune!)
ohhh, please, MAKE IT!
Good, but not as good as their minesweeper trailer.
I thought the clip was hilarious!
I welcome the debate Tom Hall brings to this series of comments. I would like to express a certain wariness about the comment of Starcadia:
“. I forgive you, but you must realize that people like you who are not educated and make big decisions – like voting, for instance – based on what some guy in a church tells you,”
Starcadia, you and I quite likely agree politically ,but your comment to Mr. Hall is smug and arrogant as all get out. I have a masters degree ,but many of my friend have never finished high school and most of them are my equals intellectually. Just because a person has not attended college does not mean they are “uneducated” nor worthy of expressing their political opinions. I have every reason to believe that Mr. Hall, someone who has served in the military, is every bit as sophisticated as you and I. That certainly does not mean I support his political views – not by a long shot, but I get the feeling that he is man with an open mind and one who is willing to debate the issues instead of engaging in shouting matches
DEVIANT@50: “Just because someone isn’t a Democrat doesn’t mean they are Bush-like and evil.”
I agree, and I never said that they would be. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions about the Democratic platform in general. Glad to hear we agree on most points listed.
Actually, I am not registered with any party, and my voting tends to be more on the Green side, but you can bet this year, like in 2004, I will be voting Dem in the presidential race. Like the libertarians, the greens believe in decriminalizing marijuana at the very least, so there is another point we agree on that many Dems to not share. I have no problem with Libertarians, and in races where it is between a Republican and a Libertarian, I always vote Lib. =D
Dragonfrog @24, I dunno. Biden’s got a reputation for putting his foot in his mouth, like recently with his comment about FDR talking about the Depression on TV.
Tom Hale @11, College Humor has made videos mocking the Democratic candidates; I remember a pretty funny take-off of the Sarah Silverman “I’m Fucking Matt Damon” video starring Obama and H Clinton. But humorists aren’t under any obligation to dredge up a joke about the other side if nothing happens to strike their funnybone that week.
Sarah Palin has been getting a lot of media attention, because she’s the shiny new thing in this months-long campaign. That’s probably why McCain picked her to share the ticket. Some of that attention is bound to be unfavorable — that’s the price of fame.
knowing the difference between right and wrong takes work and constant attention. How much easier to join a political party. And how much more costly.
If the skate (or satire) fits…
I think palin and mccain are terrifying people each with immoral stances. mccain sang “bomb bomb bomb iran” that should automatically throw him out of the running and for that I think he can eat a bag of dicks.
but was “Bt ‘m stll vtng fr McCn-Pln. Hhhh.” actually DV’ed? or did the poster do it himself to make boing boing look bad?
wow it is surprising how Boing is willing to get political when they see a threat to their prevailing philosophy on the horizon. Palin has been a recurring subject lately.
Tom Hale, you should educate yourself before you make statements like you did. I forgive you, but you must realize that people like you who are not educated and make big decisions – like voting, for instance – based on what some guy in a church tells you, ones that affect essentially billions of people who all have different ideologies, are doing a tremendous, global disservice.
This is why I think education is the most important issue in any election. We can’t make solid decisions without knowing our facts. It’s the uneducated that want to teach Creationism in schools, for instance, or base foreign policy on religious ideology. It’s not right. Every single individual thinks differently about spirit, and America, although a largely Christian country, has always prided itself in its ability to accommodate a whole range of people and belief (i.e. freedom of religion).
That said, I personally believe that spirituality plays a crucial role in society. Always has, always will. But until the religious can find a way to educate themselves, educate their offspring, and learn to maneuver based on advanced reasoning skills that take time and work to acquire, religion should have no place in policy decisions.
I also think that humor is crucial too, and this video is completely awesome for so many reasons.
I expected better. There are so many great trailer spoofs out there. This isn’t one of them.
When Sarah Palin was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, the small town began billing sexual-assault victims for the cost of rape kits and forensic exams.
It strikes me as odd that we even bother with any sort of campaigning or debates after the primaries. I know I sound like a cynic, but the great majority of voters consistently play “home team” in politics.
Regardless of how inept Palin is, or how much of a literal danger it is to be voting for McCain with the probability of her eventual assumption of his responsibilities should he be elected, most Republicans couldn’t care less so long as guns, gays and fetuses are to be properly liberated or restrained respectively in conservative tradition. And to be fair, most Democrats aren’t much better.
Don’t get me wrong, for many of us it is truly about the issues. It’s just incredible to me what some people will vote for provided it has their designated partisan bias.
Party politics are the cancer killing America.
You seriously disemvoweled someone saying “But I’m still voting for McCain-Palin”?? Two legs good, four legs bad!
I would have disemvowelled them for saying that they were voting for Obama-Biden. It doesn’t contribute to the discussion. It’s just pissing in the corner to mark territory.
STARCADIA, as far as education goes – I placed on my military exam at the same level as someone that has had 4 years in college. (yes, I’ve served our country as well as serving my community as a Firefighter/EMT) I read several books a week – I do admit that I am lacking in political/civic education. Bt d knw rght frm wrng – nd f Dmcrts ddn’t spprt brtn, gn cntrl(rmvl s n strl), llgl mmgrnts, sclzd hlth cr, nd sm sx mrrg (wht dd frgt?), ‘d b Dmcrt myslf.
I’ve said before, I hate politics. I could meet most of you at a restaurant, on the street, anywhere and we’d probably hit it off and be pals. But mention politics and all hell would break lose. Politicians are like wrestlers, when the camera is off- they all go drink together at the same bar. Sure, Vote for your party, but try to stop hating the other side.
Count me in with #53 — I generally vote for Democrats but I know plenty of educated, intelligent Republicans. The accusations from the left that only an uneducated or stupid person would vote Republican are the flip side of a Republican thinking that voting Democrat should be considered immoral.
I try to evaluate candidates based on the entirety of my evaluation of their character, judgment, positions, capabilities, etc. No one candidate ever scores a 100% in my book. There are several things I tend to disagree with Democrats on, but their major flaw, in my opinion, is their support for legal abortion. For me, that’s a major stain on their policies. BUT — I nearly always vote for them and I fully support Barack Obama because on so many other issues they are right and the Republicans are wrong.
I’m a Christian, too, but I think it would be wrong from a theological standpoint for a church to endorse one candidate or party over another. Doing so gives one side a free pass. If your church says that voting for McCain is the only moral thing to do, then is it endorsing capital punishment? Torture? Warmongering and militarism? A widening gap between the rich and poor? His sleazy personal life? His lies on the campaign trail? The Keating Five scandal? His irresponsible, rash method of making decisions? An unexperienced VP candidate who wants to ban books and is sympathetic to secessionists?
Likewise, I wouldn’t want my church to come out and endorse Obama. But what I would want is for my church to help teach me moral principles — to help us learn what is right and wrong, and how to use our powers of discernment and judgement so that we can make wise decisions.
That’s almost as hilarious as the 100% true story of Barack Obama’s “Truth Squad” using law enforcement to squelch free speech in Missouri.
So Tom, you’re really willing to let this country implode on itself just because you don’t want a couple “fags” to get married?
prosecution of libel is “suppression of free speech”? Then you won’t mind my fist’s “right of free movement” to pass through your face? Really?
@chasnleo #31: Er, Palin has been a recurring subject *everywhere* lately, not just here at Boing Boing. I think that was the general idea, but the media spotlight thing is backfiring just a leetle.
What’s that indoor/outdoor sod called again?
We’re getting off topic, but it turns out Missouri has no criminal libel law. Weird, because they even have laws against “agroterrorism,” pretending to be blind, and flag desecration.
I think it comes down to people not understanding the difference between civil lawsuits and criminal charges.
She should withdraw. At this point she’s no longer a VP candidate, she’s a fucking T-shirt.
libel is usually pendant on a proven tort; no measurable (ie: money) loss, no libel. Nothing to put right or make whole. Which stems from the the state viewing the individual and his or her honor as worthless.
Plenty of people want to restrict marriage for religious reasons, for instance, but plenty others want to restrict it because of an internal prejudice – a “feeling” – that they’ve failed to examine.
And that wouldn’t have come from parents, teachers, media…? Internal prejudices are still externally imposed.
iamcantaloupe, forget everything I’ve said. Let’s be pals – vote on election day – try to stop being so bitter. I think I’ll stick to the non political articles from now on. You guys are way to serious about something we have no control over other than our one teeny little vote.
#59 POSTED BY ANTINOUS , SEPTEMBER 27, 2008 1:34 PM
I would have disemvowelled them for saying that they were voting for Obama-Biden. It doesn’t contribute to the discussion. It’s just pissing in the corner to mark territory.
#59 POSTED BY ANTINOUS , SEPTEMBER 27, 2008 1:34 PM
I see. Like I said before, two legs good, four legs bad. Or is it the other way around?
Tom, I wasn’t espousing a particular party. Otherwise, I agree with you. I have friends of all persuasions, and although we disagree on fundamentals, we love each other. All I’m saying is that education should be a much higher priority. It is the key to progress as a global society. The lack of it is what gets everyone in trouble.
ADAMVILLANI@58: Well said. Thanks for your take.
ANTINOUS#59: What are we gonna do when we get a candidate that spells their name all in consonants. Mr. Mtzlplck fr prz!
I forgot to mention one of the most glaring and important tenets to both Greens and Dems is a responsibility to maintain the Environment so future generations might know wild places. We also believe animals have rights that corporations should not ignore in their mad rush to profitize everything. And we cannot pretend Global Warming is not already kicking our asses.
I knew there was something I left out. There are probably other as well.
Also, Tom, regarding your last comment to iamcantaloupe…
To downplay the serious nature of even a single vote is really, really, really irresponsible of you. Again, I truly forgive you, and I’m sure it would be a blast to have a beer with you, but the pen is, and always has been, mightier than the sword, and you have to be careful with what you say. The best way to be careful is to educate yourself so that what you say is responsible and authoritative.
Would it be terrible for me to ask for help, here, to bypass a proxy? Employer’s internets be… filtered. If someone can just point me to the flv so i can wget it from my box at home via ssh… :) i’ll give you 24 internets.
@dr.arthur Our current president can’t speak English, we’ve had a B-movie actor as president, the Terminator is governor of Cali–seriously, is the country any more wack now than it’s ever been?
When she said “and I’ve got a Lasagna in the oven” I thought someone was going to say “well, you’d better get him out, then!”
But it turns out the CollegeHumor folks are far less hack-y than I am.
About my credibility – I’m a deep south, high school educated Republican – I doubt if I will ever gain much credibility with most of the posters on BB.
I’m a deep South, not even THROUGH high school educated child, raised by Republicans (I’m an Independent), and I get on fine here! Don’t worry, we at BoingBoing will only criticize (or compliment) you on your views- not your origin. I did a quick skim through and saw nobody mentioned that, and since I’m still in hostess-mode, decided to point it out.
This was hilarious. I can’t wait for the Biden-Palin debate. I just hope Biden isn’t too much of an ass, because he’ll have everybody up in arms about being mean to the hockey mom. And Lord knows Biden can be a grade-A ass. (Funny, though. A funny one.)
Can you imagine if it was your job to prepare her for the debate?
I think I’d hand her the bottle’o’tears from my HS prop room and tell her to git to it.
I would try to get Washington University to let her carry her baby in her arms during the debate, and then if the Democrats objected, counter with “What, do you hate disabled babies?”
And then have her casually breastfeed during the debate.
Cupcake Faerie – Sorry for being smug and arrogant, but Mr. Hall is clearly not sophisticated. Fun to hang out with, a good friend, interesting to talk to, maybe, but not sophisticated. A sophisticated person would not say that morality comes from religion, or that a vote is not important.
I don’t believe a Master’s degree is necessary for sophistication either. In fact, over-education often does more harm than good to one’s capacity to think freely, from what I’ve witnessed. What I do feel strongly about is that a basic education is necessary to have a broad view of the world we live in. I feel the importance of getting basic education to all of our people is on the same level of getting basic health care to our people. We should be paying at least as much attention to strengthening people’s minds as we do their bodies.
If we’re going to have any sort of war on which we spend trillions of dollars, we should have a war on ignorance.
Yay a second Cold War. I finally get to see the iron curtain in my lifetime! Yay!
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