By Xeni Jardin at 10:41 am Fri, Oct 3, 2008
by Aden Renkai, via Political Wire (thanks Teresa Nielsen Hayden!).
@ Tom Hale:
“There has to be at least one member of the Boing Boing team that doesn’t consider themselves a liberal.”
Why? Because liberals can’t have “varied political opinions”? Seems the GOP has all sorts of opinions this year. Some of you theocratic fascists have even said that Palin should drop out. Fancy that.
“…they’re all I got.”
There is one other option: sanity. You’d rather have a grade-A, blithering nutjob like Sarah Palin drooling over the button? Her IQ is lower than Obama’s finger’s.
Everyone take a drink.
quite amazing really. Think about it: all these Palin related posts and not one single credible defense made of her whatsoever. Nothing, nada, zip.
Usually at least one voice emerges contrary to the obvious accepted wisdom and observed facts and causes us all to think just once more – but not with Palin.
I am encouraged. I don’t believe in a binary world of black and white and right and wrong, humans are too squishy for that. Apart from the odd genetic freak of psychopathy, everyone is somehow redeemable or at least explicable in light of their upbringing and circumstances. But Evil is Evil. It is a Good Thing that Evil is being recognized here and being called out. There is yet hope.
And Nautch? You are a silly person. Examine why you do what you do, you do have choices.
@#12: couldn’t agree more. No candidate in my adult life has ever made my vote felt so cheapened.
This thread was over @2. Ebb chart. Game, set, and match.
Palin is funny only so long as you do not remember Danforth Q. As I recall, he got the job.
@ Wigwam Jones
I think the strong reaction may be, in part, a build up of liberal (not in the pejorative sense) frustrations over the past 8 years.
By most accounts, including those of the current Republican ticket, the last 8 years have been a disaster. Not of the blowjob in the oval office kind either.
Many of these folks see Palin as a repeat of the Bush election bid: an under-qualified self-righteous but likable aw-shucks figure head who pays no heed to the voice of those not in her camp.
The use of Palin as a marketing gimmick by the McCain camp seems painfully obvious to more than just that dirty liberal media. She is a target and an easy one at that. Defending her will make you a target as well.
Fact-Checking on most of Palin’s statements reveal in almost all cases misleading half-truths that have been spun in a painful over-obvious manner support her point of view.
Just for one example her stating Obama voting against funding of a troop spending bill. Obama voted against a certain version of the bill but voted for the other. McCain conversely voted for the one Obama didn’t vote for, and voted against the one Obama voted for.
Everytime I hear this so-and-so did or didn’t vote for such and such a bill I laugh, and they just look stupider to me. Everyone who knows anything about how a Bill works knows that Politicians love to try to/attach Riders, Amendments, and what’s known as ‘Pork’ (such as the Bridge to nowhere that Palin supported, then when everyone caught it, she was like Oh Noes, I don’t support it, Stopped the project but guess what? Kept the money).
Such Riders, Amendments, and Pork can completely twist a Bill from it’s original purpose. Good Bills with good purposes that are for the people are regularly turned into Living Nightmares.
These are the kind of things that politicians like to repeatedly keep out of their so and so did/didn’t vote for such and such finger pointing.
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Thanks for comparing me to Putin, but I prefer Stalin.
I agree with #115. I am also glad Evil has been identified here. And that Evil is each of you. Look’s like Mav–that’s my nickname for John–and I know who to send the way of the polar bears.
Brownies at my house later!
My family wootn’t watch the debate, and most of my many friend is overseas, so I’m not sure (because I’m mostly deaf) but isn’t Palin one of those people who substitutes ”t” for ”d” in such contractions as couldn’t wouldn’t and didn’t? Seems like I heard that trailer park pronunciation a few times during her … performance. Did any of you “hearing” people notice? Or was I just ”anticipating the command,” hearing what I wanted to hear?
That’s common among us deaf and dumb hearing-challenged types.
What really outrages people about Sarah Palin is not so much that she wants to sell the middle and lower classes down the river – all Republicans want that – or that she wants to cram her religion down your throat – ibid – but that a part of the American people are so easily taken in by her phony “I’m a real person and YOU’RE NOT!” bullshit.
Frankly, it’s never been a more embarrassing time to be an American. But then I’m not a small-town Christian, therefore I’m not a “real person” and my opinion doesn’t count.
“You may not agree with McCain, Biden or Obama but all three are to be respected. Palin… ehhhhh… not so much.”
Absolutely! Stop settling for hayseed morons as national leaders, America, and the wars and recessions might stop.
Where’s an Obama debate bit with lines from “Next Friday” put over it?
Good question. Why don’t you put one together? I don’t see the connection between Obama (labeled as an elitist pointy-headed intellectual) and a low-brow comedy centered on characters from inner city LA–outside of ‘he’s black, and so are they!’–but you apparently have some concept bubbling on the stove. Go for it.
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Yeah, Wigwam Jones is no troll, he’s more a of a goblin in lipstick. ;)
OK, once again class: in the context of a blog, what you are calling “bias” is actually opinion. Their opinion. They are not obliged to be neutral about ANYTHING, and they are not obliged to represent opposing views. Get with the program.
I find it difficult to believe she will drop out. The evidence points to an inability to admit mistakes.
Well good luck with that. I’m sure if you think hard enough you can come up with other ways to annoy the commenters. I won’t say you are squelching free speech because this is your site and you can do whatever you want to with it but I feel less inclined to keep coming back.
Takuan – Defense? She needs no defense other than from McCain himself – she is what she is, candidate for VP and I doubt she thinks she deserves the position any more than you do. Deserving or not, they could have done much better and McCain is my last choice out of the group that were vying for the Republican presidential slot, so if elected I’m not looking forward to the next 4 years any more than you are. All I would get to say is, “Hurray, my side won! – my side won?”
@ Tom Hale:
“There has to be at least one member of the Boing Boing team that doesn’t consider themselves a liberal.”
Why? Because liberals can’t have “varied political opinions”? Seems the GOP has all sorts of opinions this year. Some of you theocratic fascists have even said that Palin should drop out. Fancy that.
Why? Because liberals can’t have “varied political opinions”? Seems the GOP has all sorts of opinions this year. Some of you theocratic fascists have even said that Palin should drop out. Fancy that.
TAKESHI, Teresa, the lead moderator said on the BB moderation policy“There is no Boing Boing party line. The Boingers have varied political opinions.”
@ Teresa & Antinous: It took me this long to figure out that you, as moderators, were devoweling the offending text (I thought people did it to sneak in offensive language or something). It’s just that devoweling makes it hard to read opposing viewpoints.
I find it useful to understand how and why people are thinking a certain way, even if it has no merit. I think Palin said it best: “I’m not going to compromise…” [later]”…I’m going to work with everyone and get bipartisan support to get things done!” …or something like that, I couldn’t listen too closely. Wait! At first I thought that was incongruous, but maybe she’s some sort of Jedi(Sith?) or something.
when picking sides, choose your species.
Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator: I mean, I think you’re doing a fine job identifying when people are repeating/chanting/spamming BS, but I’d just like the opportunity to read what they said initially.
Obama reminds me of how Blair was treated in his honeymoon period. I think it takes about 4-5 years of shiny-governance before the disillusion sets in. Careful what you wish for and all that. Anyway, my serious point is this: does the personal competence of an individual candidate still matter? Surely it’s the advisors and backroom boys who make the decisions?
does the personal competence of an individual candidate still matter? Surely it’s the advisors and backroom boys who make the decisions?
Quite a number of people have made similar comments. When did we collectively decide that the President and VP are just meat puppets?
Thank You Boing Boing for being another one sided media outlet helping keep the civil war in America going.
There’s no doubt that BB is biased to the left, but that’s not saying much, since the editors, moderators, and commenterâ€™s are, by a vast majority, obviously liberal. I donâ€™t see any way for them to be completely unbiased in their posts, nor would it make much sense for them to do so. I do believe the moderators to be mostly fair in their moderation in that if they were to leave every opposing comment, no matter how on topic, the comments section would turn into one huge flame fest. Read the Wikipedia article about Boing Boing – apparently this is exactly how the comments section used to be before they changed BB’s moderation to its present form.
I’ve been reading BB for close to a year and have had problems with moderators only a few times – increasing a bit as the election closes. Since Iâ€™m a Republican, there are of course a ton of posts and comments that get me riled up, but for some odd reason I’ve really warmed up to the BB community. When Xeni Jardin can post a beautiful video about Africaâ€™s wildlife one day, and post this article the next, it makes the political post a lot easier to take. Or when Mark Frauenfelder shows his love for all things Geeky and Retro in his posts â€“ things I also love â€“ it bothers me much less when I see one of his political posts. Iâ€™ve found it best as a Republican to try to avoid commenting on the political post, and if I absolutely have to comment, at least try to keep my comment as nice and close to neutral as possible.
I like your Biden flowchart, DLB. Can you distill His Obamaness into a flowchart,too. That’d be awesome.
In response to someone who asked what lies Joe Biden told in the debate:
The worst lie was that Senator Biden stated three times that the cost of combat for three weeks in Iraq was greater than the cost of all of our time in Afghanistan. This figure is impressive, but completely false. The most we ever spent in Iraq in one year was $158 billion, or $3 billion per week. By contrast, the total cost of Afghanistan was 177.5 billion.
($3 billion)*(3 weeks) = $9 billion =/= $177.5 billion. Say it ain’t so, Joe!
Here are 14 more lies:
read the Moderation thread
…Yeah, I’m usually late to parties.
CENTRICITY@198: Well said. Where do you call local?
HELLHAMMER@200: By conservative idiom, those who drink wine are elitists. (Which is more complete B.S. of course. I have a friend in Houston who served Kenny Lay & other bush cronies many a bottle of $2000+ Chardonnay, btw.)
Anyway, my serious point is this: does the personal competence of an individual candidate still matter? Surely it’s the advisors and backroom boys who make the decisions?
In terms of getting elected or in governance?
so, tomhale, no matter how effed up your pres. and veep candidate may be, you will vote for them nonetheless. yay. your ‘side’ wins. wait, i thought we were all supposed to be americans, on the same side. isn’t the election about doing what is best for our country, and not our “party”?
In response to someone who asked what lies Joe Biden told in the debate:
The worst lie was that Senator Biden stated three times that the cost of combat for three weeks in Iraq was greater than the cost of all of our time in Afghanistan.
No, what he said was that the cost of combat in Iraq was greater than the cost of rebuilding in Afghanistan. The guns and bombs used in Afghanistan, of course, are not rebuilding, they are destruction.
And it is an important point. Afghanistan is where al-Quida is, and the front line for stopping the people behind 9/11. Why are things going so badly there? Because we’re spening more every three weeks destroying another country than we’re willing to spend fixing the country that contained the actual threat to us.
It is a classic example of screwed-up priorities, and valuing destruction over rebuilding the world into a safer place.
ah, enjin here, back to yer old trolly trix i see. you should go check out ann coulter’s blog, or maybe rush limbaugh’s. i think you would be much happier there. unless, like i believe #50JETFLYER is doing , are you trolling for mccain points? and ABROWN28, dont let that egress bruise yer glutious on the way out.
is it time for people to shed their tired skins of political labels and use their franchise to vote for what is right instead of what someone else says is right?
take a moment to lift eyes from the American election and actually see what is happening now:
My personal bugbear is Palin’s vocal tick of “also”. The whole “maverick, maverick, maverick” thing is a deliberate branding exercise, but the “also” thing strikes me as similar to the the Estuary English “innit” or “do you know wot I mean?”. Also.
George Bush had intelligent advisers who disagreed with him, and he either ignored or fired them. Handlers do not run things. The buffoons we put in office do.
See George W. Bush for an example of how a narrow-minded arrogant good-for-nothing can ruin a country, despite being propped up by handlers.
George Bush had intelligent advisers who disagreed with him
Certainly the Iraq war was undertaken against the advice of the administration’s own experts.
@ MINTPHRESH, I am not allowed to say the exact reasons I cannot, in all good conscience, vote for a Democratic candidate. I’ve tried in the past – it gets DV’d and would only lead to a series of comments saying how wrong I am or how stupid I am, etc.
That’s a shame, ABrown28, because BBNinja just responded in detail to your assertions and now’s your chance to respond.
Per devowelling etc.: we all rankle sometimes at moderation but it really is necessary if discussions are to remain substantive.
That said, I would never post at a site that seemed solidly conservative and then complain because they weren’t immediately convertyed to my liberal views, because I wouldn’t expect any different. I would expect an uphill climb and lots of potshots taken by the less courteous posters.
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I’m giving you three days off to calm yourself.
I’m sure if you think hard enough you can come up with other ways to annoy the commenters.
Is that a dare?
@170 Ursula L:
Fair enough, but Biden could have been more clear. Only the first time he mentioned the statistic did he even use the word build. The other two times he just said more we spent more in 3 weeks in Iraq than the entire time we’ve been in Afghanistan, which is misleading if he really meant rebuilding Afghanistan.
Here are the actual quotes:
” Look, we have spent more money — we spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country.”
“Let me say that again. Three weeks in Iraq; seven years, seven years or six-and-a-half years in Afghanistan.”
“Barack Obama was saying we need more troops there. Again, we spend in three weeks on combat missions in Iraq, more than we spent in the entire time we have been in Afghanistan. That will change in a Barack Obama administration.”
However, that’s not a useful comparison anyway. Doesn’t he realize that it is our troops doing the rebuilding, so their salaries should factor in to the calculation of rebuilding.
religion is just a skin too
rechnen , how many “mccain points” was that bit of B.S. worth? how much will we have spent there after mac’s ‘100year’ war?
So Hillary is popular because women hate her?
And what do you call it when a “traditional” woman like Palin cries “sexism!”! How about the pot calling the kettle black?
RE #127 and Mods: This is the sort of thing that concerns me; now Tom Hale can say that we censor him (DVing). Of course if you come to a liberal site you should prepare for resistance to conservative ideas (“how wrong I am or how stupid I am”). I suspect if you gave clear evidence for your case and didn’t rant (I’ve seen you behave well so far), you wouldn’t be DVed.
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actually Obama did pretty good in the debate. I had low expectations to begin with but he obviously came off better than McCain. Stll wn’t vt fr hm. Bdn s thr lr r dsn’t knw wht h’s tlkng bt.
to those complaining of “unfair” bias in BB political postings: Then post a cogent, defensible argument in support of Bush,McCain,Cheney,Palin then. All I ever seem to see is whining from those who think that the bias against evil is “bias” and therefore evil. Let us see some persuasive, fact based statements – if you can supply them.
abrown28, I find you annoying.
Talk about BS! McCain was talking about some kind of presence in Iraq for 100yrs (like we have in other countries around the world), not a hundred year war. As far as I know, Hillary and probably Obama support some kind of long-term presence in Iraq, they just don’t advertise it. Here is the actual quote of McCain answering a question about Bush’s statement that troops could be in Iraq for 50yrs:
“Maybe 100,” McCain replied. “As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day.”
Word to the wise: If “Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed”, it’s not called a war.
Just a holocaust.
I can go to plenty of sites and express why I vote the way I do – I’m not going to convert anyone here, nor would I get a pleasant debate about the rights and wrongs of my beliefs. If I were to attempt to debate what makes me vote Republican – it would have nothing to do with discussion about Sarah Palin’s performance in the VP debate, which is what I assume Xeni Jardin wanted discussed when she posted the Sarah Palin Debate Flow Chart. Would you want to go to a Republican ran and similarly moderated site and post your arguments against the Republican party and it’s candidate?
PS: EngineHere, it’s ironic that you’re crying “sexism!” after making the inexcusable statement that “women hate other women who can be construed attractive and sucessful.”
Why not just say that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote because they are ruled by their emotions?
Doesn’t he realize that it is our troops doing the rebuilding, so their salaries should factor in to the calculation of rebuilding.
Well, no. Effective rebuilding isn’t done by soldiers, particularly foreign soldiers.
Building is done by civil engineers, mechanics, carpenters, road workers, local politicians, sewer workers, electricians, etc. Local people, paid salaries according to the local economy, to do jobs locally.
These local workers, in turn, spend those salaries on food from local farmers, in local stores, clothes made by local tailors, goods made and sold by local businesses, etc., providing the financial fuel to restart the local economy.
Foreign soldiers may be able to do a few rebuilding tasks – at a vastly inflated cost, and without any long-term benefit for the local economy, as they send most of their money back home.
If “most of” the rebuilding is being done by US soldiers, to the extent that the salaries paid to US soldiers in Afghanistan should be counted as rebuilding, rather than US military, spending, then it is proof of waste in the rebuilding process, not an indication of more extensive rebuilding.
yup. If my ideas are good, they are good anywhere. That is how I know`they are good.
@76, 96, and 97: This thread has yielded me three belly laughs so far, for which I heartily thank ye.
If “Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed”, it’s not called a war.
If their presence is leading to people being killed in the area where they are in an effort to end the occupation, then it is a war, even if the US manages to keep its own people from harm. Good armor and fortification doesn’t mean that the war isn’t happening – it just means you’ve protected yourself from its effects.
And counting only US injuries and deaths in whether or not a US action is or isn’t war, is a sure sign of failure on the international scale, and long-term failure in terms of US goals for lasting peace and stability.
I listened to the debates on NPR and didn’t really notice what it is that I think you were referring to. (I think you are asking if she mispronounced “didn’t” as “ditn’t”, “shouldn’t” as “shoultn’t”, etc.)
At the same time I’m not sure if I would have noticed as I know several people with a hint of this in their speech and it isn’t all that jarring to me — definitely not as jarring as her mispronunciations of “nuclear” as “nucular” or “nuculear” were.
(And I’m just going to throw out that the only people who I hear mispronouncing “nuclear” any more are people who are either elected Republicans — or who are aspiring to that status — or some of the people who are dyed-in-the-wool supporters of theirs. As a newish “I’m an ultraconservative/anti-intellectual” codeword, to say it more plainly. Everyone else seems to have figured the vowels out.)
and if you believe we can keep a presence in the islamic world for any amount of time with out americans being injured, harmed, wounded or killed, then you haven’t been reading your history. denial is more than an egyptian river. BTW, al qaeda training and recruiting is in afghanistan and the pashtun region of pakistan. iraq, not so much. what do the british and american military leadership say about winning a war with them? “unwinnable” is the quote they use. perhaps you know something they don’t…
She was definately coached but, I still had more entertainment watching her piss herself everytime she was asked a question. I would say she looked like a moose in the headlights but, her husband would probably shoot her.
My fav statement was when she said McCain was a man who knew how to win a war.
Really?!?!?! Lemme see, he was shot down and captured in a war we lost. Republican revisionism is alive and well.
@Tom Hale — all comments.
Let me start with honesty: I am a liberal. I’m a left-wing, pro-choice, anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, pro-sex education, card-carrying Guardian member of the ACLU. And if you’re local to me, I’d like to take you to lunch.
For me, part of being liberal has always been being tolerant of others’ views, ESPECIALLY when they disagree with me. It means sitting down and talking to them in reasoned tones and calm voices and discussing what makes us different. It means being flexible in my understanding of the world and its many people with their varied vantage points and experiences. It means thinking about the world in a new way all the time. It means taking that input which is given to me and making informed and compassionate choices. It means helping those who need it in the hopes — but not the assumption — that they would help me if I need it.
It means understanding that, if there were only liberals in the world, it would be a kinder place, a gentler place, and a boring place.
I’ve always thought of our society as a ship: I am the sails that move us forward. You, sir, are the ballast that evens the keel. I am the soulful abandon and you are the reasoned caution.
And we are both necessary.
That was almost poetry. Wanna buy an island somewhere scenic and start that world? We could have a tree fort.
@ #60: care to be specific about the incorrect facts he pulled out of his ass?
“When did we collectively decide that the President and VP are just meat puppets?”
Not sure, Reagan? At least superficially. I think people sneered at him being an actor. That might have confirmed to some that the role was becoming more showbiz. I think we are seeing similar attitudes to Palin being a beauty queen. As a corollary I’d also say that Obama could be a movie star, but that’s a truism about most politicians.
Not sure, Reagan?
That would be my guess. Yet, Bush Sr. and Clinton followed Reagan and are both intelligent and capable. Then comes Jr, who’s an idiot. I guess that it supports my theory that we may accidentally elect the competent, but not because of their competence.
Tom Hale (#131):
I’ve been to just about every NeoCon site and have been banned simply for trying to debate Democratic ideals. You won’t get that kind of backhanded treatment here so keep running your mouth secure in the knowledge that you can return here tomorrow and spew the same ole Anti-American rhetoric some more.
When I say “Anti-American”, I simply mean that while Repubs like you maintain that Dems hate America then I say Repubs like you conversely hate AmericaNs.
The really scary thing that is happening is the cult of anti-intellectualism, they take pride in not knowing. The fascist intellectuals running things, who disguise themselves as “gemeinsam volk”, actively encourage and exploit the baseless fear the ignorant harbor toward intellectuals. Intellectuals are dangerous, they know things, they’re not like us, we work.
BTW, al qaeda training and recruiting is in afghanistan and the pashtun region of pakistan. iraq, not so much.”
I tend to believe Al Qaeda when they state that Iraq is central to the global Jihad.
If we leave Iraq and focus on Afghanistan, what’s to stop Al Qaeda from leaving Afghanistan and setting up camp in Iraq?
what do the british and american military leadership say about winning a war with them? “unwinnable” is the quote they use.
I don’t know what “american military leadership” you are referring to (you could provide some sources), but General Petraeus does not think the war in Iraq is “unwinnable”.
what if this was an inteerview for a job. our major issues right now, war and financial. mccain’s war exp.: graduated third from the bottom of his navy class. crashed four of the navy’s finest planes, and was still given another, which he then crashed and was captured, spent the remainder of the war in viet cong prison. voted not only overwhelmingly in support of iran war, but says he doesnt care if we are there for 100 years. also voted against more funding for veteran care for returning soldiers. as far as his financial qualifications? big player in “keating 5 s and l scandal”, helped write (w/gramm) legislation to remove safeguards put in place to keep us out of depression/recession. now that we are in a recession/depression(beginning), he wants to give $700,000,000,000 to those who got us into this mess, no q’s asked. great qualifications!
It’s painfully true that women hate other women who can be construed attractive and sucessful
No. Women hate other women who can be construed attractive and are sucessful despite being complete dimwits.
Actually, successful male dimwits are equally loathsome.
@85, that reemvoweller sucks. “Christopher Walken in a wig” became “Christopher Wilkin in a wage.” Forsooth.
I didn’t watch the debate (being Canadian and not having cable), so I can’t comment from personal experience…but I think Takuan nailed it in 61: instead of complaining about how unfair BB is to Palin, why not make an argument in her defense?
You know what I want to know? What Kim Jong-il thinks about her.
I mean, she can see Russia from her home…
Does Kim wonder if she can see him across the ocean in the middle of the night?
@ 135, What? I said nothing of the sort – I thought my posts said exactly the opposite.
Tom Hale – Would you want to go to a Republican ran and similarly moderated site and post your arguments against the Republican party and it’s candidate?
Been there, got the t-shirt. Actually, got banned, bagged on, AND received threatening e-mails from fellow commenters. So, not quite the same thing if my experience speaks to you.
But aside from that Tom, you do BB (and yourself) a great disservice thinking this is a Democratic party based site. Personally I’ve voted -D in 1/2 my elections to date, and I have no problem identifying what problems I have with Obama.
If Obama had chosen someone similarly unqualified we would still be picking on her, albeit with less vigor. If McCain had chosen someone more qualified, we would still be picking on her, albeit with less ammunition.
Things as they are, Palin is the weakest link, the embodied essence of what is wrong with politicians of ANY stripe.
awesome idea, antinous.
maybe with a little rest he will regain control of his vowels.
@#67 POSTED BY FOETUSNAIL , OCTOBER 3, 2008 1:16 PM
The really scary thing that is happening is the cult of anti-intellectualism, they take pride in not knowing.
Hmmm. You have a point, but the issue isn’t anti-Intellectualism as much as veiled racism and bigotry wrapped in anti-Intellectualism.
I’m sure there are people out there who think Palin is an idiot and McCain is not going to last the full 4 years but will vote for them because they are “real folks” (white), have “common sense” (white) and “know how to get the job done” (crackers) and that’s it.
So as stupid as she is, one can only hope she’s stupid enough so fans of “old fashioned music” and “traditional values” vote for Obama.
Iraq was ruined by Anglo-American machinations to secure cheap oil decades ago. Saddam came to power by American help and Iraq has been lately ruined again by American bombs. “Re-building” by thieves like Halliburton, abetted by thugs like Blackwater is a bitter joke. There is no war in Iraq and never has been. “War” suggests a contest, not a rape.
Tell me Rechnen, did you even look at the article I posted in #171?
I didn’t say YOU said it. I said Repubs LIKE YOU have said it. Read, then think, then post.
Sorry, I meant #138
Hey! This is political!
I’d like to see a combined Apple/Palin post.
Unfortunately, Jack, once someone has decided that she’s “real” or “one of us,” that’s as far as the thinking goes, believe me. People who vote for someone because, “I dunno, I just LIKE her” are not people given to thinking very much, or very hard.
TomHale, i think IRSEAN is his own version of one of the partisans he ran into at one of those sites. Partisans exist. At least I understood you Tom, if that helps any.
Yes, BB leans left, obviously. I say that is different than it being a ‘Democratic’ (party based) site. We’re not here for the cheerleading or to tow the line. We’re not getting goodie points from our candidates either.
I’m not aware of any single right-leaning site where the flavors of conservatism in general are bandied about so freely. Where the moderators spend the time to establish whether someone is actually trying to argue from a position of good faith and knowledge, or are just trying to disrupt because they can’t argue it out.
This may appear to be a mutual back-patting society to you, but all the mods are doing is taking the time to pull the back-stabbers out of the mix (but not -entirely- out of the discourse, unlike conservative leaning sites where disagreement = disloyalty).
It can be hard to see, but if you can approach the topic without disrespecting your audience or hosts, you’ll do fine here Tom. It’s been my experience.
And fwiw Tom, you’re exactly the kind of conservative we need more of over here.
This is really more of an ebb chart.
so rechnen , you’re entire argument is based on two questionable letters from 2003 and 2005? wonderful. and gen betrayus is not a credible source either as he is just another ass-kissing yesman from the bushie admin. admittedly, his job was made much easier by the shia-sunni cease fire of 2007. none of which had squat to do with him, and everything to do with getting our occupying troops out of iraq.
also. rechnen , i notice that you keep skirting the ‘mccain points’ question.
Did this make me LOL? You betcha!
“The really scary thing that is happening is the cult of anti-intellectualism.”
Right on. If you can correctly pronounce really, really hard words like “nuclear” then you must be an elitist.
Republicans’ empty promises about ordinary people being able to go to college are belied by their contempt for the educated, not to mention their unceasing efforts to deprive anyone but the privileged the ability to actually get a college education.
gen betrayus? Really? See, here I was thinking that namecalling has no place in an intelligent discussion. Silly me. It’s obvious you’re getting your talking points from moveon.org.
I didn’t skirt the question, I simply don’t understand it. I wasn’t aware there was a contest to obtain ‘mccain points’. I just don’t like the fact that Biden can lie and not get called out on it.
I CANNOT belive there is a (remote) possibility of hearing four more years of “nuke-yoo-lur.”
There was a rally for Palin in Alaska at the same time as a rally for Obama. The Obama rally was packed while most of the chairs at the Palin rally were empty. Ha…Palin is whats WRONG for America.
I believe what we have in Iraq is an occupation.
I hope that whoever is elected takes our military out of Iraq asap. Surely everyone agrees that It would be irresponsible for to leave before Iraq’s government is prepared to defend itself against insurgents -right?
When we do leave, I don’t see there being peace in Iraq for a long time. As long as the Islamic schools are preaching it’s hate against all things non Islamic – there will be resistance to the government put in place by the coalition.
But they have to be careful to mask their intelligence with volksy colloquialisms.
perhaps the people who hang around here use politics as a tool to do what they think is right, rather than be used as tools by politics.
And Tom: I am deeply suspicious to the point of murderous paranoia in my social interactions. I have not quite made up my mind about you, but I am slowly coming around to the position that you may not intend malice.
that would be nice if the lie you called him out on wasn’t already debunked in #170. i notice that this is the only thread that u post to. therefore it seems to me you are trolling for mcain points. you’ve never been to mccain.com? beeotch, please.
Isn’t it against BB’s moderation policy to do what rechnen is doing? His only posts are on this one topic.
ANTINOUS pretty much defined Astroturfing in the moderation policy.
“Astroturfing is (possibly paid) political propagandizing. It’s quite common on certain subjects. Some businesses and even countries scour the web for references and have their meat-drones blast comment threads with comments supporting them.”
I’m keeping a close eye on things.
#2 MDH: Ha! Ebb chart! Love it…
When did we ever kick Hezbollah out of Lebanon? When did anybody?
Biden lied when he said that Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Obama did say specifically, and Biden attacked him on it.
by the way I was trying not to be cra** with a** but I guess that was silly ;)
Oh, I see MINTPHRESH already noticed that Astroturfing thing. I’ll have to check out mccain.com though.
Wlcm t Bng-Bng. ll Pln, ll th tm.
I would take McCain seriously as a presidential candidate if he had chosen Condoleezza Rice for VP.
VP Barbie takes me back to the worst days of high school when I would get some sort of condescending tripe out of several of the preppie/sosh girls and their wannabe-rich hangers on. It was demeaning back then and rankles worse now that I see what they grow up to be.
I worked for 4 years an Methodist North Hospital (I quit this past Feb. – 1 job is enough). I started in the emergency room, then moved to the chest pain center, then a cardiac unit.(Bear with me, my point will be clear in a bit.) I met thousands of people in those 4 years, but in the chest pain center and cardiac unit I was able to spend enough time with my patients to actually talk with them and get to know them a bit. You’d be surprised at just how nice people are when treated nicely and of course I’m nothing but nice. Cardiac patients are, of course, deeply concerned and worried about what’s going on, so they tend to latch on to someone nice. My point: I learned early to never talk to one of my patients about politics, even when asked. It’s amazing how fast a sweet little old lady can suddenly become angry when she finds out that I supported that evil man that wants to take her retirement money and social security away. One second, she’s as sweet as can be – the next, she’s giving me dirty looks. So, after that episode, I completely avoided the topic.
If you follow the conversations on BB, you’d think half of the people hated the other half. Political discussions brings out the very worst in people, especially when you add in the anonymity that the internet gives you. So, I prefer to think most of the commenters on BB are just like anyone I’d meet on the street, probably pretty nice folks.
i also want to note to all of you “waa, waa they disemvowelled me! oh, i’m gonna cwyyy! ta-weee-sah! TAH-WEEE-SAH! waaaah!” babies out there that there are a good dozen or more NON-DV’D obvious pro-palin/anti biden comments. so :P
Hmmm… new term:
Palindrone: self-referential, rambling discourse of circular reasoning expressed by modern politicians in order to deflect attention away from an obvious lack of understanding or intelligence.
I wonder how much astroturfing pays? I’m pretty much homebound these days but I could put in a few hours a day, I guess, for cigar money. I could even rein in my mean streak and be painfully reasonable and charmingly anecdotal, and wax nice like the excellent Tom Hale.
Do the good guys even use astroturfers?
You forgot Bill Ayers, oil and abortion! Americans! They can never get political parody right…
@188 – did your little sister sneak in while you were making a sammich and post that under your name? Isn’t baby talk against the rules? Please say it is!
you’ve never been to mccain.com? beeotch, please.
Oh, like you’ve never been to barackobama.com? what is your point exactly?
I can assure you I’m not paid by, nor do I volunteer for McCain. I wouldn’t have even commented at all, except this topic was mostly a hate-on-Palin thread and I thought I’d balance it out. Would it make you feel better if I went and commented on a paper folding article as well?
that would be nice if the lie you called him out on wasn’t already debunked in #170.
I also posted a link to 14 other lies, which no one commented on.
Don’t push it.
well, if the Republicans keep putting the saddle on the horse. . .
With all this political hoopla, I still haven’t seen one coherent argument from the McCain/Palin camp. Last nigh, she said that she doesn’t compromise and that she and John are mavericks. Wouldn’t two people who don’t compromise end up getting nothing done? Immediately after that statement she said they’d work in a bipartisan effort. I literally LOL’d because how can you be maverick and work to–oh what’s the word I’m looking for–compromise?
In any case, she deserves this chart because she evaded 3 questions by talking about ‘energy’, even when, in one question, she was pointedly asked about the economy. It’s as if she dropped all her other cards and only had the one from which to read.
At least Biden stayed on topic.
So you guys are voting for McCain right?
Scatterbrain @ 203 – I read your bio – we’re close neighbours in the multi-dimensional Venn diagram of life :)
I wish you well on the boingboing, but secretly resent that you’ve pinched one of my go-to alternative masks for when I need to retire to the toilets to change my soiled clothes…
Still – Americans, eh? You gotta love ‘em!! (or they’ll invade you)
If only Cheney occasionally winked and gave a shout out, I think I would really like him.
OMFG #6, I can’t believe you just called Palin a horse!
She has already been clearly defined as a ‘pig’ so please get back on message.
@#131 “Would you want to go to a Republican ran and similarly moderated site and post your arguments against the Republican party and it’s candidate?”
Me? Probably not. If you’re suggesting you don’t want to get into a political tussle, I ask you Tom Hale, how did we get to this point in the first place? It seems empty to make suggestions then claim you can’t back them up because you’d be modded/DVed. I’m not suggesting you can’t back up what you say – your concerns about preventing flame wars and moderation is legitimate, but of all people with more diverse viewpoints you seem more grounded and respectful, and I wish we could hear you out. and @#145: good anecdote.
Now that politics is underway, anyone care to find a post about religion?
the VP debate was stunning. Palin did a decent job faking about 20% of the questions and didn’t even bother answering the other 80%.
i couldn’t help thinking of the end of the movie Billy Madison, when the Principal says to Adam Sandler, “Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”
suggest*3? Time for bed!
we have had many discussions here on religion.
Returning to politics: Is anyone out there capable of making a reasonable defense of McCain/Palin?
hey just out of sheer frustration would anyone familiar with coding like to create a reevmowler? just a program that generates vowels in between the spaces in words until it hits a logical sentence? like why was this disemvowled from #60? “Stll wn’t vt fr hm” i don’t agree with that, but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be allowed. i’m so damn curious what all that shit says but i lack the attention span to sit there and read it at half the normal pace. so much for free speech man. oh yeah and palin is an insult to the american people, i don’t think it can be said enough so i’ll say it again.
why was this disemvoweled
We don’t need to hear whom everyone is voting for or against. It falls under the category of sloganeering, it doesn’t add any substance to the discussion and, if I allowed it, it would replicate and eat every comment thread.
@ Pork Musket,
Great use of a movie reference as insult!
Thank you, ABrown28. At least now we know you’re not just pulling things out of your excretory orifice.
I’ll have to leave it to someone better informed about Biden than I to support/refute your assertions.
PS: it would take more than the word “ass” to offend Boing Boing readers! :)
Watching Palin after watching Hillary’s campaign and the criticism aimed at her for being an ambitious woman (who, depending on who you read, was either her husband’s hostess and had no experience because she was busy throwing tea-parties or couldn’t satisfy her husband and therefore was suspect as a politician) kinda makes me ill. As a woman, the kinds of things I’ve seen in this election make me incredibly pissed. And the fact that Palin is so obviously under-qualified, unable to answer a question and seems to think that a little charisma and the ability to smile a lot qualify her to be the prez in waiting both scares me and pisses me off. Palin is set up to be no threat to those dominionist neo-cons who don’t think women can be as competent as men.
At least Hillary could answer a bloody question, instead of harping on questions no one asked like the way Palin kept returning to the energy policy question that she wasn’t asked over and over at the beginning of the debate instead of answering questions about, say, economics and the military. And to lie her face off about what McCain had and hadn’t done. Anyone who watched that debate and thought Palin came off well had the TV on mute.
Awww…nothing about winking?
if she was a guy and did that, we would all be buried in “what a douche-bag” comments.
or their brain on pause.
This woman cannot be sent packing back to Alaska fast enough. Please…just shut your stupid piehole and go away. It was funny for a while. Not anymore.
Do you want to know why a Republican would want to vote for McCain/Palin? If so, it’s because they support the values listed in the following link. McCain/Palin may not have been my first choice, or fifth, but they’re all I got.
FoetusNail here, let’s face it, Palin proves there is a hardcore group that would have trouble voting Dem, even if god came to them in a dream and said vote Obama. At this point it would be too embarrassing to change horses. Just imagine what would happen in some of these churches, if they were to find out someone betrayed the values.
This is not about Iraq or fiscal responsibiility, or even the long stream of half truths or outright lies. It is not even about patriotism.
It is all about creating an enviornment that shelters their children from opposing ideas, and prepares the world for the rapture and armageddon. They don’t care about this country. Many are praying it will be destroyed in their lifetimes.
A small active group of uneducated religious zealots are, in Palin’s words, going to reform the country. If you want to know what that means your answer, their “Values”, was posted hours ago.
Anyone that comes to this site to have a “discussion” is at the very least dishonest.
#76, i thank you for that reference, it brightened my day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA
My girlfriend at work and I were talking about this. Giving her a ‘pass’ for cheesy stuff like this is just as demeaning to women as calling us ‘honey’ (unless you’re Flo) and patting us on the butt.
If Biden had done that, he’d be so flamed you could use him in your BBQ for your next cookout.
Takuan, I think what you really want is an argument. I didn’t come here for an argument.
Thank you for the Billy Madison quote. SO funny. And yes, apropos.
I also was incensed by Palin’s refusal to answer the questions put her, and wondered why the moderator didn’t call her on it. And I would have wondered the same if Biden had been guilty of the same cheap politician’s trick.
For a Washington “outsider,” she sure can be slick when she wants to cover up her views or lack of knowledge on a topic.
The flowchart is brilliant. I did wonder why, in comparing Palin’s performance in the debates to the interviews, none of the commentators seemed to mention her notes, or the fact that half the time she answered a completely different question.
Oh, and, Teresa Nielsen Hayden FTW:
I swear, moments like this are the only time you guys believe in affirmative action.
I winced every time she said “nuke-u-lar.” Which seemed like a lot.
fair enough, antinous, i’m still curious though…
thank you for that.
Preserving Our Values
From its founding, America has been an idea as much as a political or geographic entity. It has meant, for untold millions around the world, a set of ideals that speak to the highest aspirations of humanity. From its own beginning, the Republican Party has boldly asserted those ideals, as we now do again, to affirm the rights of the people under the rule of law.
Upholding the Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms
We uphold the right of individual Americans to own firearms, a right which antedated the Constitution and was solemnly confirmed by the Second Amendment. We applaud the Supreme Courtâ€™s decision in Heller affirming that right, and we assert the individual responsibility to safely use and store firearms. We call on the next president to appoint judges who will similarly respect the Constitution. Gun ownership is responsible citizenship, enabling Americans to defend themselves, their property, and communities.
We call for education in constitutional rights in schools, and we support the option of firearms training in federal programs serving senior citizens and women. We urge immediate action to review the automatic denial of gun ownership to returning members of the Armed Forces who have suffered trauma during service to their country. We condemn frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, which are transparent attempts to deprive citizens of their rights. We oppose federal licensing of law-abiding gun owners and national gun registration as violations of the Second Amendment. We recognize that gun control only affects and penalizes law-abiding citizens, and that such proposals are ineffective at reducing violent crime.
Ensuring Equal Treatment for All
Individual rights â€“ and the responsibilities that go with them â€“ are the foundation of a free society. From the time of Lincoln, equality of individuals has been a cornerstone of the Republican Party. Our commitment to equal opportunity extends from landmark school-choice legislation for the students of Washington D.C. to historic appointments at the highest levels of government. We consider discrimination based on sex, race, age, religion, creed, disability, or national origin to be immoral, and we will strongly enforce anti-discrimination statutes. We ask all to join us in rejecting the forces of hatred and bigotry and in denouncing all who practice or promote racism, anti-Semitism, ethnic prejudice, or religious intolerance. As a matter of principle, Republicans oppose any attempts to create race-based governments within the United States, as well as any domestic governments not bound by the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
Precisely because we oppose discrimination, we reject preferences, quotas, and set-asides, whether in education or in corporate boardrooms. The government should not make contracts on this basis, and neither should corporations. We support efforts to help low-income individuals get a fair shot based on their potential and merit, and we affirm the common-sense approach of the Chief Justice of the United States: that the way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to stop discriminating.
Protecting Our National Symbols
The symbol of our unity, to which we all pledge allegiance, is the flag. By whatever legislative method is most feasible, Old Glory should be given legal protection against desecration. We condemn decisions by activist judges to deny children the opportunity to say the Pledge of Allegiance in public school.
Freedom of Speech and of the Press
We support freedom of speech and freedom of the press and oppose attempts to violate or weaken those rights, such as reinstatement of the so-called Fairness Doctrine.
Maintaining The Sanctity and Dignity of Human Life
Faithful to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence, we assert the inherent dignity and sanctity of all human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendmentâ€™s protections apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity and dignity of innocent human life.
We have made progress. The Supreme Court has upheld prohibitions against the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion. States are now permitted to extend health-care coverage to children before birth. And the Born Alive Infants Protection Act has become law; this law ensures that infants who are born alive during an abortion receive all treatment and care that is provided to all newborn infants and are not neglected and left to die. We must protect girls from exploitation and statutory rape through a parental notification requirement. We all have a moral obligation to assist, not to penalize, women struggling with the challenges of an unplanned pregnancy. At its core, abortion is a fundamental assault on the sanctity of innocent human life. Women deserve better than abortion. Every effort should be made to work with women considering abortion to enable and empower them to choose life. We salute those who provide them alternatives, including pregnancy care centers, and we take pride in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has followed Republican legislative initiatives.
Respect for life requires efforts to include persons with disabilities in education, employment, the justice system, and civic participation. In keeping with that commitment, we oppose the non-consensual withholding of care or treatment from people with disabilities, as well as the elderly and infirm, just as we oppose euthanasia and assisted suicide, which endanger especially those on the margins of society. Because government should set a positive standard in hiring and contracting for the services of persons with disabilities, we need to update the statutory authority for the AbilityOne program, the main avenue by which those productive members of our society can offer high quality services at the best possible value.
Preserving Traditional Marriage
Because our childrenâ€™s future is best preserved within the traditional understanding of marriage, we call for a constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage as a union of a man and a woman, so that judges cannot make other arrangements equivalent to it. In the absence of a national amendment, we support the right of the people of the various states to affirm traditional marriage through state initiatives.
Republicans recognize the importance of having in the home a father and a mother who are married. The two-parent family still provides the best environment of stability, discipline, responsibility, and character. Children in homes without fathers are more likely to commit a crime, drop out of school, become violent, become teen parents, use illegal drugs, become mired in poverty, or have emotional or behavioral problems. We support the courageous efforts of single-parent families to provide a stable home for their children. Children are our nationâ€™s most precious resource. We also salute and support the efforts of foster and adoptive families.
Republicans have been at the forefront of protecting traditional marriage laws, both in the states and in Congress. A Republican Congress enacted the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of states not to recognize same-sex â€œmarriagesâ€ licensed in other states. Unbelievably, the Democratic Party has now pledged to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, which would subject every state to the redefinition of marriage by a judge without ever allowing the people to vote on the matter. We also urge Congress to use its Article III, Section 2 power to prevent activist federal judges from imposing upon the rest of the nation the judicial activism in Massachusetts and California. We also encourage states to review their marriage and divorce laws in order to strengthen marriage.
As the family is our basic unit of society, we oppose initiatives to erode parental rights.
Safeguarding Religious Liberties
Our Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion and forbids any religious test for public office, and it likewise prohibits the establishment of a state-sponsored creed. The balance between those two ideals has been distorted by judicial rulings which attempt to drive faith out of the public arena. The public display of the Ten Commandments does not violate the U.S. Constitution and accurately reflects the Judeo-Christian heritage of our country. We support the right of students to engage in student-initiated, student-led prayer in public schools, athletic events, and graduation ceremonies, when done in conformity with constitutional standards.
We affirm every citizenâ€™s right to apply religious values to public policy and the right of faith-based organizations to participate fully in public programs without renouncing their beliefs, removing religious objects or symbols, or becoming subject to government-imposed hiring practices. Forcing religious groups to abandon their beliefs as applied to their hiring practices is religious discrimination. We support the First Amendment right of freedom of association of the Boy Scouts of America and other service organizations whose values are under assault, and we call upon the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to reverse its policy of blacklisting religious groups which decline to arrange adoptions by same-sex couples. Respectful of our nationâ€™s diversity in faith, we urge reasonable accommodation of religious beliefs in the private workplace. We deplore the increasing incidence of attacks against religious symbols, as well as incidents of anti-Semitism on college campuses.
Preserving Americansâ€™ Property Rights
At the center of a free economy is the right of citizens to be secure in their property. Every person has the right to acquire, own, use, possess, enjoy, and dispose of private property. That right was undermined by the Supreme Courtâ€™s Kelo decision, allowing local governments to seize a personâ€™s home or land, not for vital public use, but for transfer to private developers. That 5-to-4 decision highlights what is at stake in the election of the next president, who may make new appointments to the Court. We call on state legislatures to moot the Kelo decision by appropriate legislation, and we pledge on the federal level to pass legislation to protect against unjust federal takings. We will enforce the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment to ensure just compensation whenever private property is needed to achieve a compelling public use. We urge caution in the designation of National Historic Areas, which can set the stage for widespread governmental control of citizensâ€™ lands.
Supporting Native American Communities
The federal government has a special responsibility to the people in Indian country and a unique trust relationship with them, which has been insufficiently honored. The social and economic problems that plague Indian country have grown worse over the last several decades, and we must reverse that trend. Ineffective government programs deprive Indians of the services they need, and long-term failures threaten to undermine tribal sovereignty itself.
Republicans believe that economic self-sufficiency is the ultimate answer to the challenges in Indian country and that tribal communities, not Washington bureaucracies, are better situated to craft local solutions. Federal â€“ and state â€“ regulations that thwart job creation must be reconsidered so that tribal governments acting on Native Americansâ€™ behalf are not disadvantaged. The Democratic Partyâ€™s repeated undermining of tribal sovereignty to advantage union bosses is especially egregious.
Republicans reject a one-size-fits-all approach to federal-state-tribal partnerships and will work to expand local autonomy where tribal governments seek it. Better partnerships will help us to expand opportunity, deliver top-flight education to future generations, modernize and improve the Indian Health Service to make it more responsive to local needs, and build essential infrastructure. Native Americans must be empowered to develop the rich natural resources on their lands without undue federal interference.
Crime in Indian country, especially against women, is a special problem demanding immediate attention. Inadequate resources and neglect have made Native Americans less safe and allowed safe havens to develop in Indian country for criminal narcotics enterprises. The government must increase funding for tribal officers and investigators, FBI agents, prosecutors, and tribal jails. The legal system must provide stability and protect property rights. Everyoneâ€™s civil rights must be safeguarded, including the right to due process and freedom of the press, with accountability for all government officials.
We support efforts to ensure equitable participation in federal programs by Native Americans, including Alaska Natives and Native Hawaiians, and to preserve their culture and languages. We honor the sacrifices of all Native Americans serving in the military today and in years past and will ensure that all veterans receive the care and respect they have earned through their service to America.
The 2008 Platform Committee received public input through a website. Ultimately more than 13,000 comments were received and considered. The following is a sampling of those comments:
(Newt Gingrich – Washington, DC)
(James – Boston, MA)
(America Forward And – New York, NY)
(Lee – Georgetown, TX)
The Second Amendment should have read..â€An armed populace being necessary to the security of a free society, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.â€ This concept is at the root of the American experience. It defines us. Other countries hate us because they still believe that the average citizen is a moron that must be controlled. If Americans were not thoughtful, slow to anger, and reluctant to commit violence, Washington would be a graveyard. We do not need keepers.
(Cliff – Portland, OR)
The 2nd Amendment says that the reason for the right of the people to keep and bear arms is the necessity of a well-regulated militia for the security of a free state. Not for hunting or antique collecting. We will only have a secure free state if the people keep and bear arms and can regulate a militia well. The assumption that the state regulates the militia is not in the Constitution. Article I, Section 8 says that Congress shall â€œprovide for the calling forth of the militiaâ€ to repel invasion, suppress insurrection and execute the laws of the United States.
(Thomas – Shelby, OH)
We should get out of Afghanistan and Iraq immediately. We should never have went to those places in the first place. Our meddling in affairs in the Middle East (and aiding their enemyIsrael) is the reason were are hated by the Arabs. Now theyhate us even more and they don’t forget – for centuries. All this military escapade has done for us is ensure that our great grandchildren will still be worried about terrorism. We shouldcome home and mind our own business. Empire building is immoral, anti-American and foolish foreign policy.
(Megan – Acton, MA)
The core American values are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom is the one that makes the other two values possible. One cannot pursue happiness if one is not free to do so; one cannot lead a fulfilling life if one is not free to do so. Religious freedom is a large piece of this, and religious freedom includes freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. The government has no right to dictate anyone’s religious beliefs, and must therefore remain secular, allowing citizens to choose their own beliefs.
(Ronald – Redwood City, CA)
One of the most important principles that the Founders of our country sought to protect was that of religious freedom. They sought to create a separation of Church and State via the First Amendment to our Constitution. I firmly believe that placing that, along with freedom of the press, as the first of the Constitutional amendments was no accident. To fully support American values, one must support, as Thomas Jefferson stated, â€œa wall of separationâ€ between government and religion.
(Ruth – St. Louis, MO)
Keep the pro-life plank located in the 2004 platform in the â€œProtecting Our Familiesâ€ section under â€œPromoting a Culture of Lifeâ€ without change in the 2008 platform. The Republican Party is the pro-life party. The greatest distinction between the Republican Party and the Democrat Party is the protection of our inalienable right to life. Any change to this section will lessen the integrity of the Republican Party and cost it votes in November.
(Bernd – Albuquerque, NM)
I personally think each abortion is a tragic event. However, 75% of them are carried out by those that claim to be Catholic or Protestant. Seems like some folks are not practicing what they preach. Anyhow, this is a divisive issue that has no real solution since the country is pretty much split. I like Ron Paul’s idea that Roe vs. Wade should be overturned, and, whether or not an abortion is performed, should be mandated by the states themselves. Let communities at least at the state level decide for themsleves.
(Natalia – Trinity, FL)
On the issue of same-sex marriage- it should be illegal in all states. I am a young, bible reading, conservative and this is a very important issue to me and anyone who cares about the fate of this great nation. Our forefathers who founded this nation on biblical principles would abhor and protest same-sex marriage, and so would Jesus Christ (clearly the Bible calls homosexuality a sin). Thus, it is imperative to get our country on the right path, to give morals back to society, so that one day, I (and anyone else) can have and raise children in a good and wholesome society. I am proud of my country and my American soldiers. God bless them and I look forward to voting for McCain in November. NK
(Jim – Wichita, KS)
The family is the core unit of any sucessful society. The Father & Mother working together to instill values, educate and nuture children is the ONLY proven method that works consistently. We must not knuckle under to those who would undermine this structure. We cannot permit the foundation of the nation to be eroded for the sake of being broadminded or accepting. The personal choices of citizens in their private lives are just that, but they should not be imbedded in public policey.
(Paul – Carrollton, TX)
Adult stem cells have consistently shown promise and results. Fetal stem cells, conversely, have shown little to no positive results and leads to abortion just to harvest these cells which should be inconsistent with our platform. Our platform should reject fetal stem cell research and promote adult stem cell research only.
(Gerry – Scottsdale, AZ)
Holding on to the most conservative pro-life stance as a party keeps away from our membership many who hold moderate views on abortion but share our economic, foreign policy and size of government views. It is time that we moved away from the dichotomy of â€œpro-lifeâ€ and â€œpro-choice.â€ Most Americans share neither position but have a liberal attitude toward first term abortion and a conservative attitude toward late term abortion. We should take this contentious issue off the national agenda and make ourselves more attractive to middle-of-the-road voters who share most of our agenda.
Republican National Committee | 310 First Street, SE | Washington, D.C. 20003
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Copyright 2008 Republican Nat
Well, that’s some scary shit ain’t it.
I read yours now listen to this Paint the White House Black if you dare.
El Stinko @9, she was not defined as a pig. She was defined as the lipstick.
Wigwam @16, it lacks that magic touch of accuracy that makes things funny.
In case you haven’t noticed, there’s been a spontaneous efflorescence of humorous riffs on Sarah Palin’s failings. This is not unfair. It’s transparently greedy and unpatriotic of her to go grasping after an office she knows she’s incompetent to fill. The stories that have been coming out about her have been making people feel apprehensive about the possibility of her being elected, and resentful of McCain for wishing her on the country.
And mind, that was before the interviews with Katie Couric, which left us all gaping in stunned disbelief. Never before, in all our country’s history, has a major party nominated a candidate who’s this incoherent when sober. Palin didn’t know what Hamas is, or where the Gaza Strip is. She’s a big ol’ right-to-lifer, but she wasn’t aware that there’s any connection between “right to privacy” and “Roe vs. Wade”. Moreover, she couldn’t name any Supreme Court decisions other than Roe vs. Wade, and she couldn’t name a single magazine or newspaper she reads in order to help her form her opinions. Do I need to go on? I think we’ve all seen the videos.
That has really upset people. Many of us may have suspected that John McCain and/or the Republican Party were sufficiently lax and irresponsible to be capable of nominating such a bad candidate, but knowing it is a whole different thing. Our major national institutions are supposed to be better than that. The result is that people are alarmed and appalled and a little bit disgusted. That’s practically a recipe for generating humor. It’s how people cope.
If this is bias, tell me: what is it biased in favor of?
DLB @21: This attempt also lacks the magic touch of accuracy that makes humor funny.
SMGrady @30, if disemvowelled material isn’t disappointing to read, we’re doing it wrong.
Engine Here @31: The equivalent jokes about Obama and Biden don’t exist. As I keep saying, it’s a mistake to automatically assume that parity exists. Obama and Biden just don’t offer the same opportunities for humor as Palin (and, to a lesser extent, McCain). They aren’t unqualified ignoramuses who are patently accustomed to faking their answers, and people aren’t terrified by the possibility that they might wind up running things. When you take away those factors, there just aren’t as many jokes to make about them.
Antinous @34: Mind if I disagree with you? I believe the American people are capable of getting serious when they’re scared enough. When things aren’t scary, they figure America is so rich and powerful that it can survive having idiots at the helm — i.e. they don’t have to take time out of their busy schedules to pay attention to what’s going on, or judge politics on any basis other than its entertainment value.
George’s eight years have left them scared. So has the ongoing mortgage debacle, and the more recent collapse of major financial institutions. We may be having a Serious Moment. I saw an encouraging shirt the other day. It said:
SAVE THE DRAMA
FOR YOUR MAMA
Definite air of seriousness.
Enormo @45, I hope we can all judge Wigwam on his own statements and actions, not his political tendencies.
NickD @48, she’s no small-town girl. Wasilla is an exurb. Edge city. No there, there.
Not that it would matter either way. People who imagine they live in small towns are no more American that people who live on subway lines.
MercuryInTransit @52: Yes. The personal competence of the candidate still matters a great deal. The idea that it’s all done by advisors and backroom boys got widespread distribution during the 2000 election, for obvious reasons. Notice how well it worked, too — even when The Great Deciderer could understand what his advisers were saying to him, he couldn’t judge what they were telling him. He nevertheless had decisionmaking power, so power accrued to people who could promise to give him what he wanted. That didn’t work out well.
Engine Here @58: Right. Like I’m going to get my information about what women are like from a guy like you.
You’ve got it seriously wrong, by the way.
ABrown28 @60: no sweetness, no light.
Nick D @72, Republicans are fine with people going to college, as long as they’re their sort of people. It’s the same way they’re fine with gays, as long as they’re the right sort. The bad segment of the Republican Party is into private privilege, as opposed to public education and qualification.
ABrown28 @74: No. Joe Biden is a man of considerable probity, as BBNinja explains at comment 89. If you need a concrete example, try this one: Biden has the lowest net personal worth of anyone in the Senate.
With all this political hoopla, I still haven’t seen one coherent argument from the McCain/Palin camp. Last night, [Palin] said that she doesn’t compromise and that she and John are mavericks. Wouldn’t two people who don’t compromise end up getting nothing done?
Yes. Anyone who claims they never compromise is (a.) lying, and (b.) doing it badly. Compromise is inherent in the American political system. It’s just one more case of Palin having no idea what she’s talking about.
What I wouldn’t give to see her and Hillary in a fistfight. Now THAT would be entertaining.
Everyone take a drink.
Everyone Take a Drink.
This is amazing.
Preening, plotting, lighting a gastronomic flame!
Guns, fetuses, taxes, & booze.
I want a society where there are no expectations. No thresholds to surmount. No bars left empty. The only moral code is decency. No preachers, no liars! No bigots, no misogynists! No need for guns. Pipedream.
Stop calling me liberal and get off my lawn.
oh, hell yeah i been to obama.com! as well as nader.com, cynthiamckinney.com, and mccain.com. mcain.com is the only one i’ve been to offering points to those who go to allegedly left leaning web sites and blogs and spew right wing blather . er, i mean pro mccain/palin (or anti obama/biden) comments. odd how no one on the “left” felt that it was necessary.
Hey, y’all. Quit pickin on me unless you want a slapshot to the mouth.
Just kidding. [wink]
I didn’t get the “ebb chart” joke. Was that some kinda crack on my good ol’ soccer mom buddy, Ebb Smith. Her son’s got a heckuvah boot!
P.S. – John’s a maverick!
My BB Flowchart (rendered in text form):
Start: Google for “Palin”
1) Click on Link
2) Is it anti-Palin?
2aI) Return to 1
2bI) Post to BB
3) Return to 1
If End of Search Results:End Loop
1) Is it anti-Palin?
1aI) Delete comment
1bI) Ignore comment
2) Return to 1
If End of Search Results:End Loop
Continue until bored
i laughed so hard i nearly soiled myself.
…okay, i actually may have.
Very very very funny!
I wanted to be able to smack Palin every time she started the cute act, because I know that particular act (and I’ve seen other poisonous women pull it), is to misdirect from loathsome and stupid words and behavior.
Starting with, “Can I call you Joe?” trying to cut him down with familiarity, was something no man would’ve gotten away with, and she didn’t, either, which I see as a good sign.
Did I just skim “Christopher Walken with a wig” from a disemvowelling?
Tell me there are no treasures hidden within, and I will tell you that you are not digging hard enough.
Actually – it’s not funny. That’s exactly how the debate was. I commented last night and this morning on this exact thing. She was coached. Prepared. And did it relatively well.
But as a politician she will fail.
Antinous, why don’t you give more info about yourself on your Happy Mutant Profile?
I remember what Teresa said in the moderation policy: “There is no Boing Boing party line. The Boingers have varied political opinions.”
That’s why I said, “…since the editors, moderators, and commenterâ€™s are, by a vast majority, obviously liberal.” – There has to be at least one member of the Boing Boing team that doesn’t consider themselves a liberal.
I have no allegiance to any party or platform. My political opinions cover considerable ideological territory. I am, however, firmly opposed to using politics as a veil for hatred.
#13: I wish that “nuke-u-lar” was the worst thing about Sarah Palin, and that offshore drilling was the worst thing about John McCain.
Wow, no hypocrisy in the GOP platform, huh.
Freedom of the press, as long as the press stays on the day’s talking points. If not, they’re the liberal media.
I especially liked this gem:
“Our Constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion and forbids any religious test for public office, and it likewise prohibits the establishment of a state-sponsored creed. The balance between those two ideals has been distorted by judicial rulings which attempt to drive faith out of the public arena. The public display of the Ten Commandments does not violate the U.S. Constitution and accurately reflects the Judeo-Christian heritage of our country.”
Now, I believe the public display of the ten commandments that is in question is in courthouses and city halls, where they would be seen as a state-sponsored creed, no? The constitution protects people of all religions, including the absence of a religious practice, from the “Judeo-Christian heritage of our country”, like it or not.
By the way, i listed to the debate on the radio, not on TV and it seemed like she did worse without being able to actually see her.
as my dad put it, “when you can see her talk, she has something…she has a charisma. I really don’t want to hate her. But i really f**king hate her”
on the radio she sounded clumsy, and those pauses seemed to last a long time.
@ Antinous: Did you ban Engine Here? I hope he(she?) was banned for his vowels not being present and not his dissenting opinion. Perhaps he was getting a bit obnoxious, but I think allowing the thin obfuscation of ‘devoweling’ encourages people to say things they might normally be more thoughtful about.
@everyone talking about drinking games: My friends and I totally tried to play drinking games to the debate! However, considering the obvious choices of drinking 1. every time she says nuc-u-lar (the ‘s’ is silent dummy), or 2. every time she contradicts herself, we quickly realized we would succumb to alcohol poisoning long before the debates were through. @#84 – all three of those look like dangerous choices too.
Is there a Biden flow-chart?
>Read four key talking points from cards.
>Did Palin buckle
>Read “income re-distribution is really only fair” point from cards.
>Is she still there?
>Launch into lengthy monologue on life in the Senate, including contradictory statements on voting records, growing up in Scranton and being shot down in Iraq…or was it a snowstorm?
>Realize stated “facts” contradict earlier statements and video record from prior debates.
>Flash bleached lizardy smile and check watch
#18: I’m sorry, are you trying to imply Biden was *not* coached or prepared in any way. I mean there are a lot of reasons to not like her (or him). But that one is a bit of a stretch.
Of course they were coached and prepared. It was a planned debate.
#6: I believe the expression’s “put the saddle on the dinosaur”:
(scroll to bottom)
Heh. That’s inspired.
I’ve been trying to figure out what broken logic the ‘other side’ has been using to spin that as a palin win. She came across as so profoundly *stupid*, and as such a weasel, that I find it impossible to derive anything but embarassment for her and her party.
Yet I keep seeing quotes that say she did well and that it was even.
It’s a head-scratcher, you betcha.
This is the funniest thing I’ve seen EVER. Well, maybe not EVER. But damn close! It’s sad that it’s so true.
That “Do something really cute” got me!
Thank You Boing Boing for being another one sided media outlet helping keep the civil war in America going. Reminding us all anything and anyone can smell, taste, sound,feel and look like sh*t when you cram your head far up your own hole because you think you think your pious farts don’t stink. This is in reference to the fact you removed my early posting because my views differed from the websites and I’m not even a republican, how democratic of you.
I wish your website the best you guys post a lot of cool stuff and I’ll take it for that but now I’ll have to double check all your references of all source material knowing how bias you guys are.
The thing that creeps me out is that her republican handlers seem to think it doesn’t matter that she knows nothing.
Does it not occur to them that, in REALITY, she may actually have to make some vitally important decisions? As president? They seem to believe that the reality doesn’t matter so long as she gets elected (and I can’t imagine they truly believe she is ready).
Particularly creepy is the way she handled the debate: The Handlers are trying to position her as a soccer mom in order to appeal to voters, but a soccer mom is completely unprepared to decide to invade Iran, for instance.
Maybe said handlers believe they can supply a possible President Palin with the “right” actions in a crisis, but god almighty is that a sad, scary notion.
US politics has been a popularity contest for some decades. Bush Jr. won because he was more personable that Al Gore. Clinton won because he was more personable than Bush Sr. JFK won because he was more personable than Nixon. Intelligence, education and competence are irrelevant. The more able candidate might win, but not because of his or her ability.
I wanted to change the (non-existent) sub-head for BBG today to “A Team of Mavericks” but I got shot down.
I also posted a link to 14 other lies, which no one commented on.
Those aren’t 14 lies, those are 14 unsubstantiated allegations without a single citation or attribution; it’s the work of unprincipled party hacks of the lowest order. When you call “Lie,” it’s your responsibility to prove it.
You do it right with Biden’s inchoate half-truth about the costs of Iraq/Afghanistan, and then you refer us to that crappy spin list drawn up by some drunken frat boys; shame on you.
You should know the song before you start singing.
Where’s the loop that shows how she dazzles us with a long series non-sequitur sentence fragments?
I heard that you can hypnotize chickens that way.
Love Boing Boing.
You should know the rules.
If McCain is a Maverick, I hope Palin pulls a Goose.
Pln Pln Pln
You sure do like to post to the discussions you’re not enjoying. We get it already. Are you trolling? Don’t you think this post is relevant seeing as the debate was yesterday (I do)?
Can I voice my annoyance about disemvoweling here while I’m at it? It’s usually trollish stuff, but I can’t resist trying to read it and I’m always disappointed.
I can’t resist trying to read it and I’m always disappointed.
Before I became a moderator, I always just skimmed over the dv’ed comments without bothering to decipher them. I never really got the fascination with trying to figure them out.
#74 Actually Obama did not *specifically* as you say, say he would talk to Mahinada-I don’t really care how its actually spelled.
“Ahmadinejad is not the most powerful person in Iran. He may not be the right person to talk to. But I reserve the right, as president of the United States to meet with anybody at a time and place of my choosing if I think it’s going to keep America safe,” Obama said at the Sept. 26 debate.
While Obama has said he wouldn’t rule out meeting with any foreign leader, he never specifically said he’d meet with the Iranian president.
#74> Congrats! You’ve just been spun by Palin and whatever right-wing blogs you get your ‘facts’ from.
Ds Xn d ny rl jrnlsm?
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Where’s the Biden Flow chart?
Ths s gttng mr prtsn thn FX. Yh, tht bd.
dn’t cr f y xprss wh y’r spprtng, r f thr’s n bm bnnr, bt ‘d rthr hv strs spprtng wh y’r spprtng, rthr thn bltnt hshng f wh y rn’t.
…r tlst kp t t f bbgdgts
Sorry, couldn’t resist!
One thing that bugged me about the debate was her assertion of stereotypes. Middle american working class folks are “joe six pack,” if you are a man, or “hockey mom,” if you are a woman. So all middle america woman are consigned to motherhood and all middle america men are drunks. Nice. And the assumption that for men the only drink is beer. What, no “bottle-of-wine joes.” Funny how they are referring to themselves as reformers and trying to distance themselves from bush, and yet playing his “guy next door”, “drinking buddy”, idiot game.
I must say though, when I read the republican platform I posted above and consider the disconnect with reality and the hypocrisy of practice, the first word that comes to mind is “monstrous”.
@24 Karl Elvis,
I think the reason they’re saying she did well was because in comparison to her interviews, she did. It was so expected for her to blow it in a nuke-u-lar way, the fact that she only had a minor implosion was a WIN for her team.
@ Engine Here
Notice how there’s not a flowchart for McCain either? That’s because, he’s not a parody of a politician like Palin is. He’s a statesman. You may not agree with McCain, Biden or Obama but all three are to be respected.
Palin… ehhhhh… not so much.
Well then Joel, you know what to do. Demand letters of resignation from all of your co-bloggers, then have them complete loyalty tests for you.
Also, redecorate your office in red and black, and build a sports center in the middle of the goddamn woods somewhere.
That’s the mavrick spirit doncha know!
Ys, n mr ddtn, pls:
——> n slf-stsfd wy, vt dwn th tsdr, lct th Grg Srs fndd gy whs frnd nd mntr bmbd gvrnmnt bldngs nd sd h wshs h’d dn mr fr th tp jb nd hs slcky by “mr f th sm” DC nsdr ———–> Gt th gvrnmnt w dsrv
@ #30 SMGrady
Fair point. OK, my bad. I will not post in this thread again. For the record, I have posted several times today – in threads I enjoyed, too. So I don’t just make a habit of annoying others, at least not intentionally.
Remember that old line from the “Blues Brothers” movie?
Elwood: What kind of music do you usually have here?
Claire: Oh, we got both kinds. We got country *and* western.
I thought of that when I read this:
A. There is no Boing Boing party line. The Boingers have varied political opinions.
Yes, both kinds. But both are, well, left-of-center. If I’m wrong, I’d love to see evidence of it…well, anywhere.
I was once an avid reader of Boing Boing when it was a printed magazine. It has changed, I guess. Mea Culpa.
And now you can remember this moment on t-shirts…
MacBookProUser, get out. We don’t need campaign disinformationalists here.
Nautch, you already denounced Boing Boing as a one-sided website in your first post.
By the way, what’s one-sided about noticing that Sarah Palin is in way over her head? She is. Saying so isn’t partisan. Lord knows, there are plenty of Republicans saying it.
So why does her ineptitude (and McCain’s bad judgement in picking her) mean we’re being biased if we don’t invent faults Obama and Biden don’t have, and pretend they have them, so you can pretend everything’s equal?
@#34 ANTINOUS –
Actually George bush didn’t win, but it’s a valid point otherwise.
Doggoneit, that’s so, uh, ya no, uh, media, uh, I don’t know, ya know, reporters, yeah, mocked, that’s the word, I didn’t blink, Americans are the best workers in the world, John’s big maverick. Big smile.
h.l.menken would be proud.
Okay. What is it that people don’t get that BB IS NOT a news media outlet. It is a BLOG, meaning that people running it bring outside information in that they find interesting/cool/disturbing and reflect on it. They are not entitled to try and make everybody feel warm and fuzzy. It’s THEIR blog, they can run it exactly the way they want because a blog is one of the precious few places where someone can not be totally PC (read inane).
I think, Nautch, that you are mixing up ‘democracy’ with ‘diplomacy’. And these days, too much diplomacy is keeping people from pointing out REAL facts because some other people are offended or inconvenienced. Now that’s a blow to democracy.
We don’t think our farts don’t stink: We just think Sarah Palin’s brain farts stink worse considering there is a risk they could represent the US.
#30 don’t hate one Wigwam Jones. He’s not a troll, he’s a MAVERICK.
MOUTHYB@149 – Thanks, great comment. Why Palin? A relatively non-threatening boob, from their point of view, who is practically barefoot and pregnant, answers the question perfectly. From among all the knowledgeable and intelligent conservative women, why this weather girl. Why not Condoleeza Rice? She’s intelligent, imminently qualified to be president and would provide continuity. Was Rice smart enough to just say no, or just toooo tired after working 24 hrs a day for almost fours. Or maybe she is toooo strong, tooo colorful.
To those who like to complain that Boing Boing is somehow biased because its editors have political views and express them: Boing Boing has absolutely no obligation to give equal time to views that they don’t endorse. Boing Boing is not a news wire service. Don’t agree with the political opinions expressed by the editors? Read a blog you do agree with and stop wasting space in the comments section complaining that they don’t agree with your ideology.
yet she has the nerve to call obama an embarrassment!
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