Comments on: DHS perfects the abusive EULA http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:45:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: SamF http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310798 SamF Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310798 This is actually a pretty standard security notice. And if I remember right, they don't actually even have to display this notice. It pretty much boils down to "We log what you do on this system, and we inspect those logs. If you do something you're not supposed to, we'll take appropriate actions." They have the right to do those things anyway, so the notice is pretty much just a courtesy. I hope nobody out there thinks that if they cancel the notice, or do something illegal on a government website that doesn't display a notice like this, that they will somehow automagically be exempt from prosecution. Move along, nothing to see here. This is actually a pretty standard security notice. And if I remember right, they don’t actually even have to display this notice. It pretty much boils down to “We log what you do on this system, and we inspect those logs. If you do something you’re not supposed to, we’ll take appropriate actions.” They have the right to do those things anyway, so the notice is pretty much just a courtesy. I hope nobody out there thinks that if they cancel the notice, or do something illegal on a government website that doesn’t display a notice like this, that they will somehow automagically be exempt from prosecution.

Move along, nothing to see here.

]]> By: Basjohn http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310565 Basjohn Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310565 It needs a "No it's not fucking okay" button too. It needs a “No it’s not fucking okay” button too.

]]> By: anomaly69 http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310854 anomaly69 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310854 It doesn't surprise me any more. However, you could just close to popup by clicking the X. You have not clicked yes, you have not agreed, but the you can still use the site. It doesn’t surprise me any more.

However, you could just close to popup by clicking the X. You have not clicked yes, you have not agreed, but the you can still use the site.

]]> By: Nicholas Weaver http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310601 Nicholas Weaver Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310601 This is NOT an abusive EULA. Rather, it is a notification that the DHS, <I><b>as operator of the network and remote computer in question</b></i>, will actually be enforcing its rights to monitor and protect its own systems from criminial activity and other abuse. This is exactly why there is no "decline" button. This is a notification that the DHS will actually be doing what it is allowed to do. So are you saying that the DHS doesn't have the rights to monitor its own systems (the ones you are contacting) to detect abuse? Or that it shouldn't tell you about it? This is NOT an abusive EULA.

Rather, it is a notification that the DHS, as operator of the network and remote computer in question, will actually be enforcing its rights to monitor and protect its own systems from criminial activity and other abuse.

This is exactly why there is no “decline” button. This is a notification that the DHS will actually be doing what it is allowed to do.

So are you saying that the DHS doesn’t have the rights to monitor its own systems (the ones you are contacting) to detect abuse?

Or that it shouldn’t tell you about it?

]]> By: LSK http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310361 LSK Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310361 "Imagine the federal government making you agree to waive your legal rights in order to read about one of its programs!" Yes, imagine it. Then see it. “Imagine the federal government making you agree to waive your legal rights in order to read about one of its programs!”

Yes, imagine it.

Then see it.

]]> By: mdh http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310363 mdh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310363 "I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed." --Lloyd Daubler “I don’t want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed.”

–Lloyd Daubler

]]> By: El Stinko http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310365 El Stinko Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310365 What do you expect? It's the DHS! That's EXACTLY what they were created for. I think it's naive to think that this sort of thing *doesn't* happen if you visit their site. I mean- do you think that these things don't happen if you visit the CIA or FBI websites just because you don't explicitly agree to it? Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning it by inaction. Quite the opposite; I think the DHS should be completely dissolved (I'm not going into all that now though). All I am saying is that at least they are nice enough to as your permission before trampling your rights, because it surely is happening elsewhere without your knowledge. What do you expect? It’s the DHS! That’s EXACTLY what they were created for. I think it’s naive to think that this sort of thing *doesn’t* happen if you visit their site. I mean- do you think that these things don’t happen if you visit the CIA or FBI websites just because you don’t explicitly agree to it? Don’t get me wrong, I am not condoning it by inaction. Quite the opposite; I think the DHS should be completely dissolved (I’m not going into all that now though). All I am saying is that at least they are nice enough to as your permission before trampling your rights, because it surely is happening elsewhere without your knowledge.

]]> By: ironix http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310367 ironix Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310367 Not only that, but using Safari on the Mac, you don't even have the option to disagree! You can either press OK or you can force quit the browser. Not only that, but using Safari on the Mac, you don’t even have the option to disagree!

You can either press OK or you can force quit the browser.

]]> By: kalyiama http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-311393 kalyiama Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-311393 This looks a lot like what the internal gov't EULA/warnings will say, which is: we monitor our traffic and check our weblogs. my guess is that it was easier to post something similar to that than formulate a whole new eula. not much to see here, move along... This looks a lot like what the internal gov’t EULA/warnings will say, which is: we monitor our traffic and check our weblogs. my guess is that it was easier to post something similar to that than formulate a whole new eula. not much to see here, move along…

]]> By: M http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310370 M Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310370 I'm not sure, neither being a lawyer nor playing one on TV, but this would seem to contradict their privacy act statement: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/privacy.htm I’m not sure, neither being a lawyer nor playing one on TV, but this would seem to contradict their privacy act statement:
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/privacy.htm

]]> By: Cool Products http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310627 Cool Products Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310627 I'm pretty certain that there isn't anything sinister going on with this. I’m pretty certain that there isn’t anything sinister going on with this.

]]> By: mr_josh http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310378 mr_josh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310378 @ #4: I was just coming here to post that. Now, I'm thinkin' that'd be illegal, right? Pretty much forcing me to agree to something like that? Oh, government, I love how you continually insult me and mock my rights. Keep on truckin'. @ #4:

I was just coming here to post that. Now, I’m thinkin’ that’d be illegal, right? Pretty much forcing me to agree to something like that? Oh, government, I love how you continually insult me and mock my rights. Keep on truckin’.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310381 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310381 Actually, there's a regulation out that says this kind of message is supposed to be the first thing users see when visiting a government site, though DHS gets it wrong in that they're displaying an older message--the newest message contains more legalese. Most government webmasters either ignore it, put a link to it, or place it at the bottom of the main page. DHS is doing a literal interpretation of the reg. Actually, there’s a regulation out that says this kind of message is supposed to be the first thing users see when visiting a government site, though DHS gets it wrong in that they’re displaying an older message–the newest message contains more legalese. Most government webmasters either ignore it, put a link to it, or place it at the bottom of the main page. DHS is doing a literal interpretation of the reg.

]]> By: querent http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-311152 querent Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-311152 damn takuan, you teh man damn takuan, you teh man

]]> By: Keneke http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310897 Keneke Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310897 Looks a lot like the pop up we have here at Boeing on our computers. Of course, it's actually work computers and not our personal ones. Looks a lot like the pop up we have here at Boeing on our computers. Of course, it’s actually work computers and not our personal ones.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310387 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310387 I clicked the little X in the window and got through fine. I didn't agree to anything. - whereisian I clicked the little X in the window and got through fine. I didn’t agree to anything.

- whereisian

]]> By: werdnagreb http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310388 werdnagreb Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310388 But wait...there's no way to opt out. Isn't the point of EULA that you can decide to not comply and *not* use the software/enter the website/etc? All you can do is click OK. Essentilly, the DHS is forcing you to accept whatever they want do to and you have no choice about it. But wait…there’s no way to opt out. Isn’t the point of EULA that you can decide to not comply and *not* use the software/enter the website/etc? All you can do is click OK.

Essentilly, the DHS is forcing you to accept whatever they want do to and you have no choice about it.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310391 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310391 Don't they know grammar? It should say that the DHS computer system and any related equipment ARE subject to monitoring. Oh, wait, I just got an email saying, "all your is are belong to us". Go listen to any interview with James Bamford about his new book on the NSA. They saw these bits before you did, as did agencies outside the US... Don’t they know grammar? It should say that the DHS computer system and any related equipment ARE subject to monitoring. Oh, wait, I just got an email saying, “all your is are belong to us”.

Go listen to any interview with James Bamford about his new book on the NSA. They saw these bits before you did, as did agencies outside the US…

]]> By: mdh http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310392 mdh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310392 <i>Essentilly, the DHS is forcing you to accept whatever they want do to and you have no choice about it.<i> 6 years down the DHS rabbit-hole and you're finally figuring it out. Welcome. Essentilly, the DHS is forcing you to accept whatever they want do to and you have no choice about it.

6 years down the DHS rabbit-hole and you’re finally figuring it out. Welcome.

]]> By: DeWynken http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310401 DeWynken Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310401 That EULA is worse than prison sex. That EULA is worse than prison sex.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310404 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310404 http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/06/michael_chertoff_660x.jpg http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/06/michael_chertoff_660x.jpg

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310405 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310405 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Michael_Chertoff,_official_DHS_photo_portrait,_2007.jpg/470px-Michael_Chertoff,_official_DHS_photo_portrait,_2007.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Michael_Chertoff,_official_DHS_photo_portrait,_2007.jpg/470px-Michael_Chertoff,_official_DHS_photo_portrait,_2007.jpg

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-311431 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-311431 @39: It's perfectly easy to copy text from dialogs in Windows. Depending on the type, you press either Ctrl+C or Ctrl+Shift+Ins when one has the focus. Sometimes you can just copy the text the usual way by selecting it first. But you can almost always copy it some way or other. Oh, and for the OP: You should check out <a href="http://www.ntwind.com/software/winsnap.html">WinSnap</a> (nagware these days, but version 1.1.10 is still available at <a href="http://www.ntwind.com/download/old/">ntwind.com/download/old</a>) for taking screenshots of dialogs (and anything else, for that matter). @39: It’s perfectly easy to copy text from dialogs in Windows. Depending on the type, you press either Ctrl+C or Ctrl+Shift+Ins when one has the focus. Sometimes you can just copy the text the usual way by selecting it first. But you can almost always copy it some way or other.

Oh, and for the OP: You should check out WinSnap (nagware these days, but version 1.1.10 is still available at ntwind.com/download/old) for taking screenshots of dialogs (and anything else, for that matter).

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310408 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310408 http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/615/Goebbels.jpg http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/615/Goebbels.jpg

]]> By: shMerker http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-311176 shMerker Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-311176 This isn't really an agreement so much as a fair warning. It's actually kind of nice how up front they're being about it. The truly lame part is the sloppy implementation. If you really are asking someone to agree to something you need some kind of command for disagreeing. The 'x' button doesn't really count since—as someone already pointed out—it's not there in all browsers. It's also pretty lame to put that much text into an alert box where it can't be copied and pasted for your own records*. What this is going to is needlessly scare people about what's really not a big deal. I really don't see how this is any more invasive than anything the DHS already does. * I've never understood why windows doesn't let you copy and paste from a message box, it would save a lot of time troubleshooting. This isn’t really an agreement so much as a fair warning. It’s actually kind of nice how up front they’re being about it. The truly lame part is the sloppy implementation. If you really are asking someone to agree to something you need some kind of command for disagreeing. The ‘x’ button doesn’t really count since—as someone already pointed out—it’s not there in all browsers. It’s also pretty lame to put that much text into an alert box where it can’t be copied and pasted for your own records*. What this is going to is needlessly scare people about what’s really not a big deal. I really don’t see how this is any more invasive than anything the DHS already does.

* I’ve never understood why windows doesn’t let you copy and paste from a message box, it would save a lot of time troubleshooting.

]]> By: themindfantastic http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310427 themindfantastic Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310427 Why does anyone care anymore, the America experiment has failed... rights and freedoms which you people used to point towards as being the basis of all that was good and holy have been removed. The experiment is over... and you people watched it end with your eyes open very much aware what was going on... but it was all so big picture you didn't think that it would ever get so far, and it was more interesting to watch Top Model, American Idol, and the National Sports more than the politicans ripping everything to shreds around you... you saw it coming you let it happen... now that its over LET IT GO. Why does anyone care anymore, the America experiment has failed… rights and freedoms which you people used to point towards as being the basis of all that was good and holy have been removed. The experiment is over… and you people watched it end with your eyes open very much aware what was going on… but it was all so big picture you didn’t think that it would ever get so far, and it was more interesting to watch Top Model, American Idol, and the National Sports more than the politicans ripping everything to shreds around you… you saw it coming you let it happen… now that its over LET IT GO.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310434 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310434 and that is the test. and that is the test.

]]> By: jacord http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310690 jacord Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310690 Abusive EULA? I don't think so... That message boils down to "we check our web logs." Big deal. Abusive EULA? I don’t think so… That message boils down to “we check our web logs.” Big deal.

]]> By: NeilFraser http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310436 NeilFraser Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310436 That's a standard JavaScript alert(), there's no return value. Which means there is absolutely no way for them to know if you pressed OK (agree) or clicked the close X. They should have used the confirm() function instead. That’s a standard JavaScript alert(), there’s no return value. Which means there is absolutely no way for them to know if you pressed OK (agree) or clicked the close X.

They should have used the confirm() function instead.

]]> By: flytch http://boingboing.net/2008/10/16/dhs-perfects-the-abu.html#comment-310948 flytch Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-310948 opt out???? LOL... never... they do it no matter if you agree or not... they do it with everything... here they are just telling you about it... it's not a choice it's a disclaimer... opt out???? LOL… never… they do it no matter if you agree or not… they do it with everything… here they are just telling you about it… it’s not a choice it’s a disclaimer…

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