Comments on: Saturn's Children: Stross's robopervy tribute to the late late Heinlein http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sun, 19 May 2013 22:10:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Rob Myers http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326920 Rob Myers Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326920 The book is brilliant. It takes not just the technology but the economics, law and sociology of a posthuman solar system and uses them to shine a light on what it means for men to want robot (sex) slaves. It is a critique of the *ethics* of science-fiction worlds as much as the physics. The story doesn't taper off, it retains its focus on the protagonist despite the growth of the background and the plot. The ending is not anti-climactic for Freya. My only quibble is that the major bad guy's motivation looks like blaming the victim if you hold it the wrong way up. (Everyone knows what the title refers to, right?) The book is brilliant. It takes not just the technology but the economics, law and sociology of a posthuman solar system and uses them to shine a light on what it means for men to want robot (sex) slaves. It is a critique of the *ethics* of science-fiction worlds as much as the physics.

The story doesn’t taper off, it retains its focus on the protagonist despite the growth of the background and the plot. The ending is not anti-climactic for Freya.

My only quibble is that the major bad guy’s motivation looks like blaming the victim if you hold it the wrong way up.

(Everyone knows what the title refers to, right?)

]]> By: JayeRandom http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327451 JayeRandom Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327451 Bought this one on sight, loved it. It riffs extensively on Heinlein's <i>Friday</i>, starting off with the protagonist's name. Stross inverts many of Heinlein's tropes in an entertaining fashion; probably the most eye-crossing one for me is the depiction of space travel as hideously expensive and uncomfortable, vs. Heinlein's usual assumption that space travel would be commonplace and affordable. Highly recommended. Bought this one on sight, loved it. It riffs extensively on Heinlein’s Friday, starting off with the protagonist’s name. Stross inverts many of Heinlein’s tropes in an entertaining fashion; probably the most eye-crossing one for me is the depiction of space travel as hideously expensive and uncomfortable, vs. Heinlein’s usual assumption that space travel would be commonplace and affordable. Highly recommended.

]]> By: trebonius http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327455 trebonius Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327455 I agree with #2. I actually quite liked the robopervy world Stross created, but I didn't really like the plot much by the end. I thought he created some very interesting characters, and I think he could have used them to much greater effect. I agree with #2. I actually quite liked the robopervy world Stross created, but I didn’t really like the plot much by the end. I thought he created some very interesting characters, and I think he could have used them to much greater effect.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327457 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327457 I don't really think the incest of All You Zombies is in any way comparable to the late period novels. It was simply necessary to set up the situation of him having come from himself and it was as far offstage as it could be consistent with the idea of the story. I don’t really think the incest of All You Zombies is in any way comparable to the late period novels. It was simply necessary to set up the situation of him having come from himself and it was as far offstage as it could be consistent with the idea of the story.

]]> By: jjasper http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326951 jjasper Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326951 It's a really good book, but not what I'd call brilliant. Solid, but in many ways written for SF fans, not as much for people outside of the genre. If you don't know your literary history, especially SF, you miss about 1/2 the book. It’s a really good book, but not what I’d call brilliant. Solid, but in many ways written for SF fans, not as much for people outside of the genre. If you don’t know your literary history, especially SF, you miss about 1/2 the book.

]]> By: wolfiesma http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326957 wolfiesma Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326957 Only tangentially related to the wonderful review, but I do want to dedicate this song to all boingers everywhere... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttM0pkmi1kA Only tangentially related to the wonderful review, but I do want to dedicate this song to all boingers everywhere…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttM0pkmi1kA

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327225 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327225 Given that he wrote All You Zombies in 1958, I don't think you can reasonably attribute Heinlein's pervy time traveling incest stories to any of his decades-later medical conditions (unless you presume that those plot lines were somewhat autobiographical). I'm guessing he could just get away with writing them more easily later in his career. Given that he wrote All You Zombies in 1958, I don’t think you can reasonably attribute Heinlein’s pervy time traveling incest stories to any of his decades-later medical conditions (unless you presume that those plot lines were somewhat autobiographical).

I’m guessing he could just get away with writing them more easily later in his career.

]]> By: jetfx http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327231 jetfx Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327231 So far Stross has not disappointed me, but late period Heinlein certainly has, and I love both authors, so I'm not so sure I want to pick this up. So far Stross has not disappointed me, but late period Heinlein certainly has, and I love both authors, so I’m not so sure I want to pick this up.

]]> By: Nelson.C http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326980 Nelson.C Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326980 As I recall, if you're not in fandom, you'll miss some truly awful puns; I can't see this as a <i>bad</i> thing, myself. As I recall, if you’re not in fandom, you’ll miss some truly awful puns; I can’t see this as a bad thing, myself.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-328778 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-328778 I just finished this book this morning. I liked it, but his novel length fiction kind of drags. This was certainly crisper and more engaging writing than Glasshouse or Singularity Sky, but it is still his short fiction work which is his strongest suit. Having said that, the guy has more ideas, a greater wit and brings more knowledge to the table than almost any other writer working in scifi today. He has got the tools and continues to hone his craft and I continue to read and enjoy his work. I just finished this book this morning. I liked it, but his novel length fiction kind of drags. This was certainly crisper and more engaging writing than Glasshouse or Singularity Sky, but it is still his short fiction work which is his strongest suit. Having said that, the guy has more ideas, a greater wit and brings more knowledge to the table than almost any other writer working in scifi today. He has got the tools and continues to hone his craft and I continue to read and enjoy his work.

]]> By: skabob http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327528 skabob Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327528 Brain Tumor vs. Naturally Pervy Heinlein argument: <u>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress</u> was published in 1966, 10 years before tumor time. I am pretty sure that Manny's line marriage is still considered 'pervy', and Wye Knott's sexuality was a bit ahead of her time as well. Brain Tumor vs. Naturally Pervy Heinlein argument:

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress was published in 1966, 10 years before tumor time. I am pretty sure that Manny’s line marriage is still considered ‘pervy’, and Wye Knott’s sexuality was a bit ahead of her time as well.

]]> By: Shukketsushi http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326769 Shukketsushi Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326769 sounds pretty sweet. i think i just might read this one sounds pretty sweet. i think i just might read this one

]]> By: elurstoidi http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326773 elurstoidi Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326773 the writing is tolerable and book starts out pretty well but then tapers off to a mediocre ending. it's actually much less explicit than it's been made out to be by the few reviews i've read. with the amount of random tentacle porn on the interwebs these days, this novel was almost tame. the writing is tolerable and book starts out pretty well but then tapers off to a mediocre ending.

it’s actually much less explicit than it’s been made out to be by the few reviews i’ve read. with the amount of random tentacle porn on the interwebs these days, this novel was almost tame.

]]> By: Moriarty http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326782 Moriarty Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326782 That sounds like a fun read, but it also sounds far too cohesive to be late-period Heinlein. That sounds like a fun read, but it also sounds far too cohesive to be late-period Heinlein.

]]> By: SubtleBlade http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327039 SubtleBlade Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327039 That is a very off-putting cover... Much prefer the UK one - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saturns-Children-Charles-Stross/dp/1841495670/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226354800&sr=1-1 That is a very off-putting cover…
Much prefer the UK one – http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saturns-Children-Charles-Stross/dp/1841495670/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226354800&sr=1-1

]]> By: GuidoDavid http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326806 GuidoDavid Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326806 Whoa! Sounds like fun. So far, I like everything I have read from Stross. And I called my first PC Freya, as she brought spring to my life and allowed my creativity to bloom. Whoa!
Sounds like fun. So far, I like everything I have read from Stross. And I called my first PC Freya, as she brought spring to my life and allowed my creativity to bloom.

]]> By: sdswmr http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326807 sdswmr Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326807 The idea that Heinlein had a brain tumor which affected his books and his personality is a type of urban legend. According to his site: "In 1975 he showed first symptoms of diminished brain perfusion, in 1977 he had a transient ischemic attack. So he decided to undergo carotid artery surgery for removing the blockage of the vessel. He was in better mental shape thereafter, up to his death from emphysema and related disabilities on May 8, 1988." this condition is more like a stroke, in that it is diminished blood flow. How much effect this had on his personality was not described on the website. The idea that Heinlein had a brain tumor which affected his books and his personality is a type of urban legend.

According to his site: “In 1975 he showed first symptoms of diminished brain perfusion, in 1977 he had a transient ischemic attack. So he decided to undergo carotid artery surgery for removing the blockage of the vessel. He was in better mental shape thereafter, up to his death from emphysema and related disabilities on May 8, 1988.”

this condition is more like a stroke, in that it is diminished blood flow. How much effect this had on his personality was not described on the website.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326824 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326824 Thanks for the review. This is going on my Christmas wish list, which likely means I will be buying it for myself at Bakka Phoenix on Boxing Day. Thanks for the review. This is going on my Christmas wish list, which likely means I will be buying it for myself at Bakka Phoenix on Boxing Day.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-326837 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-326837 I am 36, XX, Canadian, sex-positive feminist. Weaned on WWII-era scifi, big love to the old men pervs they became! Own Heinlein's Stranger, Sturgeon's Godbody, Clarke's Friday. Polyamorous myself. Find nothing as honest or brutal as Judy Merrill's practical futures. Is it surprising that pre-pill 'alpha' or maybe even wannabee alpha men indulge this sexual freedom suddenly available to them, at least in their minds? I am 36, XX, Canadian, sex-positive feminist. Weaned on WWII-era scifi, big love to the old men pervs they became!

Own Heinlein’s Stranger, Sturgeon’s Godbody, Clarke’s Friday. Polyamorous myself. Find nothing as honest or brutal as Judy Merrill’s practical futures.

Is it surprising that pre-pill ‘alpha’ or maybe even wannabee alpha men indulge this sexual freedom suddenly available to them, at least in their minds?

]]> By: Cyberwasteland http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327352 Cyberwasteland Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327352 That's sound like an awsome book. That’s sound like an awsome book.

]]> By: fjfis http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-448958 fjfis Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-448958 I've read this before as a short story probably 25 years ago. Can't remember who by though. I’ve read this before as a short story probably 25 years ago. Can’t remember who by though.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327368 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327368 Not disregarding the right to have your own opinion, I have to say that you guys are somehow not getting the point. Heinlein's late novels are long? Sure. Incestuous? Sure. But "pervy" and "weird"? Surely not. And because of a brain tumor? Come on guys, you sound like children complaining about how boring are the classic literature books you had to read in highschool, no depth at all. The man matured, he was questioning values of today considering he was writing about societies waaay ahead in the future, and considering the consequences of a clash between their values and the old (nowadays) due to time travel possibilities. He was an engineer from the navy when young (not entirely sure but heard that), grew with all that imposed order and sexual tabu, then he is writing in 60s and 70s about sexual liberation and you guys seem to think this is weird? come on... I imagine the general opinion on Philip Dick's novel's such as Valis or Radio Albemuth. You guys must think he was derranged. Personaly I see them both as geniuses. Sorry, but do acquire some depth in your criticism even if you don't like it. And you can dislike, not complaining about that at all. Not disregarding the right to have your own opinion, I have to say that you guys are somehow not getting the point. Heinlein’s late novels are long? Sure. Incestuous? Sure. But “pervy” and “weird”? Surely not. And because of a brain tumor?
Come on guys, you sound like children complaining about how boring are the classic literature books you had to read in highschool, no depth at all.

The man matured, he was questioning values of today considering he was writing about societies waaay ahead in the future, and considering the consequences of a clash between their values and the old (nowadays) due to time travel possibilities. He was an engineer from the navy when young (not entirely sure but heard that), grew with all that imposed order and sexual tabu, then he is writing in 60s and 70s about sexual liberation and you guys seem to think this is weird? come on…

I imagine the general opinion on Philip Dick’s novel’s such as Valis or Radio Albemuth. You guys must think he was derranged. Personaly I see them both as geniuses. Sorry, but do acquire some depth in your criticism even if you don’t like it. And you can dislike, not complaining about that at all.

]]> By: codereduk http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327113 codereduk Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327113 (Everyone knows what the title refers to, right?) Not a clue, Rob. What does the title refer to? (Everyone knows what the title refers to, right?)

Not a clue, Rob. What does the title refer to?

]]> By: prepost http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327114 prepost Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327114 The author has commented on the cover art of the US version: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2008/04/preemptive_alert.html The author has commented on the cover art of the US version:

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2008/04/preemptive_alert.html

]]> By: El Mariachi http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327116 El Mariachi Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327116 @ Codereduk: Presumably <a href="http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/A-Robert.R.Lauer-1/goya.saturn-son.jpg" rel="nofollow">this incident</a>. @ Codereduk:

Presumably this incident.

]]> By: sirkowski http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327889 sirkowski Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327889 Aww, thanks, now I'm paranoid I have a pervy tumor too... :-( Aww, thanks, now I’m paranoid I have a pervy tumor too… :-(

]]> By: k2r http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327382 k2r Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327382 > That's sound like an awsome book. It IS an awsome book !-) > That’s sound like an awsome book.

It IS an awsome book !-)

]]> By: catbeller http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327133 catbeller Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327133 "the writing is tolerable and book starts out pretty well but then tapers off to a mediocre ending." Well, apparently you've never read late Heinlein. Zing! “the writing is tolerable and book starts out pretty well but then tapers off to a mediocre ending.”

Well, apparently you’ve never read late Heinlein. Zing!

]]> By: noen http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327134 noen Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327134 "What does the title refer to?" - Libertarian melodrama. “What does the title refer to?” – Libertarian melodrama.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2008/11/10/saturns-children-str.html#comment-327904 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-327904 Sounds like just the sort of book I would enjoy reading. However, the ebook price of 23 USD was rather off-putting. When I see the hardcover at 16 USD and change, and an ebook price substantially higher....I just wonder what the heck is going on. I'd prefer an ebook for space, convenience and tree-saving, and I just don't get why publishers don't pass the savings on. Sounds like just the sort of book I would enjoy reading. However, the ebook price of 23 USD was rather off-putting. When I see the hardcover at 16 USD and change, and an ebook price substantially higher….I just wonder what the heck is going on. I’d prefer an ebook for space, convenience and tree-saving, and I just don’t get why publishers don’t pass the savings on.

]]>