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	<title>Comments on: Ground resonance and helicopter&#160;destruction</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gollux</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345857</link>
		<dc:creator>gollux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345857</guid>
		<description>Good title, &quot;Was a Robinson&quot;

Helicopters are merely an extremely tight flying formation of precision parts that&#039;s attempting to rip itself apart at all times during operation. That&#039;s why you want to see maintenance measured in cubic dollars if you are going to be flying one.

One McGuyver has a helicopter landing that starts to shake on the helipad. The pilot immediately takes off while everyone ducks down the railing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good title, &#8220;Was a Robinson&#8221;</p>
<p>Helicopters are merely an extremely tight flying formation of precision parts that&#8217;s attempting to rip itself apart at all times during operation. That&#8217;s why you want to see maintenance measured in cubic dollars if you are going to be flying one.</p>
<p>One McGuyver has a helicopter landing that starts to shake on the helipad. The pilot immediately takes off while everyone ducks down the railing.</p>
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		<title>By: GregLondon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-346370</link>
		<dc:creator>GregLondon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-346370</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is ground resonance what does in Ospreys, or are those things uniquely blessed with a different problem?&lt;/i&gt;

ground resonance means that your blades are no longer evenly spread out because one of them advanced at some point but then wont retreat. You can see in the chinook video just before it tears apart, that a couple of rotor blades have bunched together on one side. The whole thing is out of balance, and the frame can&#039;t handle it.

I &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; the osprey rotor is not an articulated rotor. I don&#039;t think the individual blades can advance/retreat. Which means to get out of balance, something already broke.

Even so, Ospreys have a lot stacked against them even when they work. They&#039;re shaped in such a way that you&#039;ve got the blades out at the tips left and right, but a whole lot of weight fore and aft.

A single-masted helo, like a huey or apache or loach, has most of the mass directly under the center of the rotor. Imagine the rotor is a spinning plate you&#039;ve balanced on a three foot long stick. Now, put the other end of the stick in the palm of your hand. You&#039;re only input is to move the base of the stick left, right, fore, aft, to keep it balanced. It&#039;s hard, but you can learn it and it&#039;s like one of those magic acts you see on stage.

I remember when I first started trainign on helos, I was a bit tense, so I&#039;d grab the cyclic with an iron grip. Any time I&#039;d try to hover, I&#039;d overcorrect, we&#039;d get pilot-induced-oscillations, and the instructor would take over and settle it out. I quickly got into the habit of holding the stick with a feather grip, and making constant micro-circular motions whenever I would hover. It was a way to remind myself to always keep moving the stick. 

So, once you get the hang of it, you&#039;ve got all these little micro adjustments you&#039;re doing. You start to drift right, nudge the cyclic left, but then bring it back to center.

Then some corrections affect seemingly unrelated behaviour. If you&#039;re hovering, and you start to sink, you add collective. When you add collective, you&#039;re suddenly adding more torgue on the rotor to lift you up. When you add more torque, the fusalage wants to turn. So you need to nudge the pedal to stop the turn. 

When you nudge the pedal, you&#039;re adding a sideways force at the tip of your tail. When you add a sideways force, you move sideways, so you need to nudge the cyclic the other way to stop the sideways drift.

I look at the osprey, and I can&#039;t even imagine what it would be like to try and balance the forces on something like that moment to moment.

Two big prop/rotors behind me to my left and right. I&#039;m sitting in a cockpit way out in front of them, and I&#039;ve got a fuselage and tail that&#039;s hanging way back behind them. The rotors act like massive gyroscopes when you try to turn them, or when you try to pitch or roll. Then there&#039;s that whole weirdness that must go on when it transitions from helo to airplane.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is ground resonance what does in Ospreys, or are those things uniquely blessed with a different problem?</i></p>
<p>ground resonance means that your blades are no longer evenly spread out because one of them advanced at some point but then wont retreat. You can see in the chinook video just before it tears apart, that a couple of rotor blades have bunched together on one side. The whole thing is out of balance, and the frame can&#8217;t handle it.</p>
<p>I <i>think</i> the osprey rotor is not an articulated rotor. I don&#8217;t think the individual blades can advance/retreat. Which means to get out of balance, something already broke.</p>
<p>Even so, Ospreys have a lot stacked against them even when they work. They&#8217;re shaped in such a way that you&#8217;ve got the blades out at the tips left and right, but a whole lot of weight fore and aft.</p>
<p>A single-masted helo, like a huey or apache or loach, has most of the mass directly under the center of the rotor. Imagine the rotor is a spinning plate you&#8217;ve balanced on a three foot long stick. Now, put the other end of the stick in the palm of your hand. You&#8217;re only input is to move the base of the stick left, right, fore, aft, to keep it balanced. It&#8217;s hard, but you can learn it and it&#8217;s like one of those magic acts you see on stage.</p>
<p>I remember when I first started trainign on helos, I was a bit tense, so I&#8217;d grab the cyclic with an iron grip. Any time I&#8217;d try to hover, I&#8217;d overcorrect, we&#8217;d get pilot-induced-oscillations, and the instructor would take over and settle it out. I quickly got into the habit of holding the stick with a feather grip, and making constant micro-circular motions whenever I would hover. It was a way to remind myself to always keep moving the stick. </p>
<p>So, once you get the hang of it, you&#8217;ve got all these little micro adjustments you&#8217;re doing. You start to drift right, nudge the cyclic left, but then bring it back to center.</p>
<p>Then some corrections affect seemingly unrelated behaviour. If you&#8217;re hovering, and you start to sink, you add collective. When you add collective, you&#8217;re suddenly adding more torgue on the rotor to lift you up. When you add more torque, the fusalage wants to turn. So you need to nudge the pedal to stop the turn. </p>
<p>When you nudge the pedal, you&#8217;re adding a sideways force at the tip of your tail. When you add a sideways force, you move sideways, so you need to nudge the cyclic the other way to stop the sideways drift.</p>
<p>I look at the osprey, and I can&#8217;t even imagine what it would be like to try and balance the forces on something like that moment to moment.</p>
<p>Two big prop/rotors behind me to my left and right. I&#8217;m sitting in a cockpit way out in front of them, and I&#8217;ve got a fuselage and tail that&#8217;s hanging way back behind them. The rotors act like massive gyroscopes when you try to turn them, or when you try to pitch or roll. Then there&#8217;s that whole weirdness that must go on when it transitions from helo to airplane.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345862</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345862</guid>
		<description>Am I the only person whose parents called it a Sikorsky?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only person whose parents called it a Sikorsky?</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-346120</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-346120</guid>
		<description>ouch! that was a test pilot in that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ouch! that was a test pilot in that one.</p>
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		<title>By: Oren Beck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345610</link>
		<dc:creator>Oren Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345610</guid>
		<description>The quiet miracle is how rare fatalities from resonance are. Resonance in structural complex  systems is often damnably variable from mathematical models. That being due to trivial differences in Static Vs Dynamic balances get multiplied in non-linear fashions. Making something that &quot;models&quot; as a worst-case failure safe design into grim death.

The underlying reason can be found in how the math model&#039;s information diverges from real factors. In a finished product the differences begin stacking up quickly. One builder of kit copters found that fatal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_Helicopter_Corporation_Inc

As for the Robinson bird? The production R22 has an elegant design for compensation. It&#039;s a weighted &quot;bean bag&quot; on the stick assembly. And it just plain works. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quiet miracle is how rare fatalities from resonance are. Resonance in structural complex  systems is often damnably variable from mathematical models. That being due to trivial differences in Static Vs Dynamic balances get multiplied in non-linear fashions. Making something that &#8220;models&#8221; as a worst-case failure safe design into grim death.</p>
<p>The underlying reason can be found in how the math model&#8217;s information diverges from real factors. In a finished product the differences begin stacking up quickly. One builder of kit copters found that fatal. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_Helicopter_Corporation_Inc" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_Helicopter_Corporation_Inc</a></p>
<p>As for the Robinson bird? The production R22 has an elegant design for compensation. It&#8217;s a weighted &#8220;bean bag&#8221; on the stick assembly. And it just plain works. </p>
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		<title>By: gollux</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345876</link>
		<dc:creator>gollux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345876</guid>
		<description>Oops, three blade, definitely not a Robinson.

N3194K is listed as an Aerospatiale Alouette out of Cedar City, Utah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Alouette_III

And here&#039;s the Department of the Interior report on the incident.

http://amd.nbc.gov/safety/mishaps/06/121405.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, three blade, definitely not a Robinson.</p>
<p>N3194K is listed as an Aerospatiale Alouette out of Cedar City, Utah.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Alouette_III" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale_Alouette_III</a></p>
<p>And here&#8217;s the Department of the Interior report on the incident.</p>
<p><a href="http://amd.nbc.gov/safety/mishaps/06/121405.htm" rel="nofollow">http://amd.nbc.gov/safety/mishaps/06/121405.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: eander315</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345621</link>
		<dc:creator>eander315</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345621</guid>
		<description>This phenomenon can be observed in remote control helis as well. During spinup, the blades sometimes  begin to shake at a specific RPM. If that RPM is gently increased, the blades will sometimes begin to violently shake, and can even bend the drive shaft, possibly resulting in a tail boom strike, which in turn results in a large replacement parts bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This phenomenon can be observed in remote control helis as well. During spinup, the blades sometimes  begin to shake at a specific RPM. If that RPM is gently increased, the blades will sometimes begin to violently shake, and can even bend the drive shaft, possibly resulting in a tail boom strike, which in turn results in a large replacement parts bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Antinous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345625</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345625</guid>
		<description>How is there not a video? If anything ever cried out for a video, this is it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is there not a video? If anything ever cried out for a video, this is it.</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345630</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345630</guid>
		<description>you mean a trim weight on the control feeds back to the main rotor? That&#039;s all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you mean a trim weight on the control feeds back to the main rotor? That&#8217;s all?</p>
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		<title>By: dbarak</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345645</link>
		<dc:creator>dbarak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345645</guid>
		<description>As some in the Navy (and elsewhere?) say, a helicopter is just 10,000 parts flying in close formation.

But they&#039;re still fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As some in the Navy (and elsewhere?) say, a helicopter is just 10,000 parts flying in close formation.</p>
<p>But they&#8217;re still fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345665</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345665</guid>
		<description>wish we had big L-5 colonies with pedal powered copters...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wish we had big L-5 colonies with pedal powered copters&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: frankieboy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345922</link>
		<dc:creator>frankieboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345922</guid>
		<description>I had a friend who flew helicopters to ocean oil rigs, and remember him saying the number of hours of maintenance for each hour of flight was crazy, like 15 to 1 or something. He claimed things didn&#039;t often go wrong, but that when they did, &quot;they go horribly wrong&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a friend who flew helicopters to ocean oil rigs, and remember him saying the number of hours of maintenance for each hour of flight was crazy, like 15 to 1 or something. He claimed things didn&#8217;t often go wrong, but that when they did, &#8220;they go horribly wrong&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: avraamov</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345668</link>
		<dc:creator>avraamov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345668</guid>
		<description>Antonius:

allow me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFLV47VAbI&amp;feature=related</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonius:</p>
<p>allow me.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFLV47VAbI&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFLV47VAbI&#038;feature=related</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-346695</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-346695</guid>
		<description>wow ... it&#039;s a good thing *I&#039;m* not a helicopter! O_O</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow &#8230; it&#8217;s a good thing *I&#8217;m* not a helicopter! O_O</p>
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		<title>By: dbarak</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345678</link>
		<dc:creator>dbarak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345678</guid>
		<description>@ #10 posted by avraamov

That might be the most expensive &quot;America&#039;s Funniest Video&quot; I&#039;ve seen...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ #10 posted by avraamov</p>
<p>That might be the most expensive &#8220;America&#8217;s Funniest Video&#8221; I&#8217;ve seen&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345680</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345680</guid>
		<description>That helicopter broke up faster than the wind could blow it.  Therefore: free lunch!  Q.E.D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That helicopter broke up faster than the wind could blow it.  Therefore: free lunch!  Q.E.D.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345687</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345687</guid>
		<description>heh! Got any of the Osprey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>heh! Got any of the Osprey?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: avraamov</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345700</link>
		<dc:creator>avraamov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345700</guid>
		<description>i think the DWFTTW team could learn from this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think the DWFTTW team could learn from this.</p>
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		<title>By: Alpinwolf</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345958</link>
		<dc:creator>Alpinwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345958</guid>
		<description>Oh, &lt;i&gt;snap!!&lt;/i&gt;   =P

Sorry, had to after that Chinook vid.

OK, bye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, <i>snap!!</i>   =P</p>
<p>Sorry, had to after that Chinook vid.</p>
<p>OK, bye.</p>
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		<title>By: Oren Beck</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345710</link>
		<dc:creator>Oren Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345710</guid>
		<description>RE: Trim weight on the control. Consider it more of a damping weight. Which in one mode of interaction shifts the resonance. Putting it out of a destructive range. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: Trim weight on the control. Consider it more of a damping weight. Which in one mode of interaction shifts the resonance. Putting it out of a destructive range. </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345456</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345456</guid>
		<description>same feeling as dumping your bike in a speed wobble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>same feeling as dumping your bike in a speed wobble.</p>
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		<title>By: Scuba SM</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345973</link>
		<dc:creator>Scuba SM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345973</guid>
		<description>Helos are weird....

For instance, the gearbox on the AH-64 Apache reportedly can function for a half-hour without lubricant. It was designed that way so if the lubricant lines were hit, or the housing was cracked by enemy fire, the pilot could get the aircraft out of harm&#039;s way, or back home, before ditching it. Personally, I wouldn&#039;t like to test it.

I new a guy that spent a lot of time around Hueys in Vietnam. He said that whenever they got a new guy on the line, they&#039;d send him with a bag of &quot;Jesus Bolts&quot; to have them blessed by the Chaplain. They called them Jesus bolts because they were what held the rotor hub assembly to the shaft, and if they let go, &quot;you were going straight to Jesus.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helos are weird&#8230;.</p>
<p>For instance, the gearbox on the AH-64 Apache reportedly can function for a half-hour without lubricant. It was designed that way so if the lubricant lines were hit, or the housing was cracked by enemy fire, the pilot could get the aircraft out of harm&#8217;s way, or back home, before ditching it. Personally, I wouldn&#8217;t like to test it.</p>
<p>I new a guy that spent a lot of time around Hueys in Vietnam. He said that whenever they got a new guy on the line, they&#8217;d send him with a bag of &#8220;Jesus Bolts&#8221; to have them blessed by the Chaplain. They called them Jesus bolts because they were what held the rotor hub assembly to the shaft, and if they let go, &#8220;you were going straight to Jesus.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Antinous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345725</link>
		<dc:creator>Antinous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345725</guid>
		<description>avraamov,

Even better that it looks like a giant, freaked-out goldfish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>avraamov,</p>
<p>Even better that it looks like a giant, freaked-out goldfish.</p>
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		<title>By: AirPillo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345730</link>
		<dc:creator>AirPillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345730</guid>
		<description>There are a couple well-circulated videos of ground resonance testing being done on a US military Chinook helicopter, if anyone has a penchant for watching aircraft disembowel themselves.

side view http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM

closer rear view http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6055303336171660489&amp;ei=Uik3Sa-zJIb-qAP6t8zFCA&amp;q=ground+resonance&amp;hl=en

The scary thing, of course, is that by the time a pilot notices this there&#039;s a chance that it&#039;s too late to avoid it, and both of the two ways to get out of the situation have the potential to only make the problem worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a couple well-circulated videos of ground resonance testing being done on a US military Chinook helicopter, if anyone has a penchant for watching aircraft disembowel themselves.</p>
<p>side view <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RihcJR0zvfM</a></p>
<p>closer rear view <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6055303336171660489&#038;ei=Uik3Sa-zJIb-qAP6t8zFCA&#038;q=ground+resonance&#038;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6055303336171660489&#038;ei=Uik3Sa-zJIb-qAP6t8zFCA&#038;q=ground+resonance&#038;hl=en</a></p>
<p>The scary thing, of course, is that by the time a pilot notices this there&#8217;s a chance that it&#8217;s too late to avoid it, and both of the two ways to get out of the situation have the potential to only make the problem worse.</p>
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		<title>By: GregLondon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345736</link>
		<dc:creator>GregLondon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345736</guid>
		<description>My understanding is this:

The blades in an articulated rotor will &quot;flap&quot; because they sometimes produce more lift on one side than the other. They also advance/retreat from each other because they flap.

You know when an ice skater starts spinning and then pulls their arms/legs in tight and they spin faster? that&#039;s part of what&#039;s happening.

On one side of the rotor, the blade is up high, deflected a lot because it&#039;s creating a lot of lift, on the other side, not so much.

Imagine a skater that puts their arm straight out when their arm is pointing west and then puts their arm down along their side when their arm is pointing east.

Their arm will want to speed up and slow down as they turn. 

so the individual blades advance/retreat from each other. If you have two rotor blades, I believe it works out that they balance out and stay in sync with each other, speeding up and slowign down at the same time. I think if you have an odd number of blades, or maybe anythign more than two (I forget), then you can have individual blades advancing and retreating, and doing all sorts of intersting things.

As far as I know, the only way you get destructive resonance is if you&#039;re on the ground or if you touched the ground hard and then try to hover. It can knock the blades out of whack, and they sometimes can&#039;t correct themselves and instead get worse. I think the basic solution is to land and reduce power so you&#039;re not hitting the resonant frequency, or (maybe, again, cant remember) to pull up, get away from the ground and increase your rpm/power/pitch and maybe it sorts out.

I don&#039;t recall the exact training anymore. I do remember helos shaking a lot when they&#039;re on the ground and then running a lot smoother when you got off the ground.

I believe there was an old &quot;Hiller&quot; brand helicopter that had the nickname &quot;hiller killer&quot; because it had a tendancy to flap a rotor right into the tailboom.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is this:</p>
<p>The blades in an articulated rotor will &#8220;flap&#8221; because they sometimes produce more lift on one side than the other. They also advance/retreat from each other because they flap.</p>
<p>You know when an ice skater starts spinning and then pulls their arms/legs in tight and they spin faster? that&#8217;s part of what&#8217;s happening.</p>
<p>On one side of the rotor, the blade is up high, deflected a lot because it&#8217;s creating a lot of lift, on the other side, not so much.</p>
<p>Imagine a skater that puts their arm straight out when their arm is pointing west and then puts their arm down along their side when their arm is pointing east.</p>
<p>Their arm will want to speed up and slow down as they turn. </p>
<p>so the individual blades advance/retreat from each other. If you have two rotor blades, I believe it works out that they balance out and stay in sync with each other, speeding up and slowign down at the same time. I think if you have an odd number of blades, or maybe anythign more than two (I forget), then you can have individual blades advancing and retreating, and doing all sorts of intersting things.</p>
<p>As far as I know, the only way you get destructive resonance is if you&#8217;re on the ground or if you touched the ground hard and then try to hover. It can knock the blades out of whack, and they sometimes can&#8217;t correct themselves and instead get worse. I think the basic solution is to land and reduce power so you&#8217;re not hitting the resonant frequency, or (maybe, again, cant remember) to pull up, get away from the ground and increase your rpm/power/pitch and maybe it sorts out.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recall the exact training anymore. I do remember helos shaking a lot when they&#8217;re on the ground and then running a lot smoother when you got off the ground.</p>
<p>I believe there was an old &#8220;Hiller&#8221; brand helicopter that had the nickname &#8220;hiller killer&#8221; because it had a tendancy to flap a rotor right into the tailboom.</p>
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		<title>By: GregLondon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345740</link>
		<dc:creator>GregLondon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345740</guid>
		<description>hm, actually, I think that&#039;s a Hiller in the picture. I believe they had a three-bladed rotor like the one in the pic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hm, actually, I think that&#8217;s a Hiller in the picture. I believe they had a three-bladed rotor like the one in the pic.</p>
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		<title>By: avraamov</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345766</link>
		<dc:creator>avraamov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345766</guid>
		<description>#16 posted by Antinous

good lord, you&#039;re right. new tactics. paralyze the enemy with zoomorphic physical comedy. genius.

that vid is now ruined/enhanced for me b.t.w.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 posted by Antinous</p>
<p>good lord, you&#8217;re right. new tactics. paralyze the enemy with zoomorphic physical comedy. genius.</p>
<p>that vid is now ruined/enhanced for me b.t.w.</p>
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		<title>By: Daemon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345527</link>
		<dc:creator>Daemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345527</guid>
		<description>Resonance is fun. At least one bridge was destroyed by the resonance caused by soldiers walking accross it in lockstep. (The Angers Bridge in 1850)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Resonance is fun. At least one bridge was destroyed by the resonance caused by soldiers walking accross it in lockstep. (The Angers Bridge in 1850)</p>
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		<title>By: Guysmiley</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-346295</link>
		<dc:creator>Guysmiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-346295</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s why on helicopter rotor RPM gauges there is a &quot;caution&quot; zone where you should not operate for sustained periods.

Example: http://www.cmaviation.com/maylan/shop/liit/r2244_er_rpm_2normal%5b1%5d.jpg notice the yellow area between 60% and 70% for engine and rotor RPM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s why on helicopter rotor RPM gauges there is a &#8220;caution&#8221; zone where you should not operate for sustained periods.</p>
<p>Example: <a href="http://www.cmaviation.com/maylan/shop/liit/r2244_er_rpm_2normal%5b1%5d.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.cmaviation.com/maylan/shop/liit/r2244_er_rpm_2normal%5b1%5d.jpg</a> notice the yellow area between 60% and 70% for engine and rotor RPM.</p>
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		<title>By: V</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2008/12/03/ground-resonance-and.html#comment-345528</link>
		<dc:creator>V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-345528</guid>
		<description>After all, helicopters don&#039;t so much fly as beat the air into submission....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After all, helicopters don&#8217;t so much fly as beat the air into submission&#8230;.</p>
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