Send your old shoes to Dubya's Liberry

Got an old pair of shoes lying around, waiting to be used in a ritual gesture of disrespect? Send 'em to the GW Bush liberry so they can put them on the My Pet Goat shelf.
George W. Bush Presidential Library
c/o SMU
6425 Boaz Lane
Dallas TX 75205
Old Shoes (via Making Light

(Image: Worn Out Shoes, a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike photo from Eschipul's Flickr stream)


  1. Would be funny to just slap some postage labeling on the shoes with an address label and stick in the mail sans packaging. Sort of like the strange objects sent into Wired Magazine.

  2. I’d do it if I thought there were any chance that he’d actually get them. But he won’t. Dubya’s never been in a library in his life and he won’t start now.

  3. I think it would be brilliant if everyone decided to send their old shoes to the White House.
    It’d be kind of like a New Boston Tea Party.

    “Bring Bush / Cheney to justice for crimes against humanity.”

  4. Wht f Brck bm (wh vtd fr) gt shws thrwn t hm by Rpblcns n th cmpgn trl, wld y pnt nd lgh r fl trg?

    cnnt blv th rspns f bng bng nd thr wbsts bt th trtmnt f r crrnt cmmndr n chf, y r wy ff bs. Rgrdlss f hs pltcl vws, ths s stll mrc’s Prsdnt, nd wld lk t blv ths cntry cn shw lttl rspct nd ndrstndng t th sttn. Trt r wn lk h’s th ntchrst r scnd cmng f Htlr, fl sd fr ths cntry bsd n yr wbst nd yr cmmnts.

    Ppl wh lv n glss hss……

  5. since there are already people making paper out of poo (eg sheep poo and elephant dung ), couldn’t we make shoe-shaped confetti out of it? we could all carry a little bag in our pockets just in case, and throw it without the risk of assault charges…

  6. Regardless of his political views, he’s still a lying mass-murderer who led the country into economic disaster and global disrepute, while slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in the name of “liberating them” or getting rid of fictitious WMDs, all the while traitorously undermining the Bill of Rights and violating his sworn oath to uphold the Constitution.

    We shouldn’t celebrate the tiny, symbolic victories of the victims of his rapacious regime. Instead, we should treat him as morally equivalent to all the other polticians who might someday hold office.

  7. oo! I’ve heard that if you scour the beaches of British Columbia, you might turn up shoes with feet in them !
    They would surely be extra potent!

  8. By all means, burden the poor sap in the mail room–the bottom rung of almost any organization–with your smelly castoffs, to show how much you imagine that you’re sticking it to The Man.

  9. Trrrsts nd rq ctzns r tw dffrnt grps, Cry. nd hs blng t th stck mrkt lst fll ( sclst dmcrt mv f thr vr ws n) s th rsn th cnmy’s n trbl?…..Rlly?…..r y sr t wsn’t th rtfclly hgh hm prcs nd
    ppl lvng wy bv thr mns th lst dcd r s wh cs th mss w’r n…..r th nns chkng th lf t f th S tmkrs,lst tm chckd th Nssn plnts n Tnnss wr stll p nd rnnng nd nn nn.T blm th GLBL rcssn n n ldr s dtc t sy th lst.

  10. Ty-turf-rone:”this is still America’s President,”
    No he ain’t. Stealing and lying and cheating to get the office invalidates it.

  11. Tyrone:

    Giving someone holding a position of authority respect *because* of their position regardless of how they perform in that position is never right, much less so in government. That is a patently ludicrous stance.

  12. To blame the GLOBAL recession on one leader is idiotic to say the least.

    Starting two wars and paying for it with inflation — the most disruptive form of wealth transfer there is — is pretty much what brought the economic crisis to a head, yeah.

    It’s global primarily because the USD is a global reserve currency — other fiat currencies are floated against it. (Other major central banks were subsequently convinced to inflate alongside the USD rather than to allow the dollar to meltdown.)

    GWB et. al. crossed the line from everyday villainy into cartoonish supervillainy.

  13. People who live in glass houses……

    We don’t live in glass houses, that’s the point. And besides, we had our windows broken long ago.

  14. I did think of the librarians. I weighed it carefully. In all seriousness, I question if those who file the Shoe President’s coloring books qualify as librarians. Bush is, in fact and at heart, a natural book-burner. Those who run with him are likewise.

  15. tyrone, kindly remove your cranium from your glutius and really THINK about what you are saying. if u wanna blather on and on about your bullshit party rhetoric, u may wish to consider doing it elsewhere. i, for one, refuse to drink that kool-aid, and prefer it where it belongs: receding into the distance. when someone sticks a gun in your face and demands all your money and rights, do you ask him what fucking party he belongs to? personally, i would love to see these (allegedly) traitorous scum brought to trial at the hague so that the world can understand that we of the u.s. are just as outraged as the shoe-thrower, and wish to see them brought to justice.

  16. Tyrone, I get your point, but hell even Bush thought it was funny. Check out the grin on his face after the first shoe parts his hair. I’m not a fan of Bush by a long shot, but occasionally he’s got a pretty good sense of humor and knows it’s best to just laugh at his misfortune. Just check out this video of him failing to walk out of a room. He knew he was fucked and just stopped and smiled. Coincidentally he was dodging a question that time too.

    Sure I’d love to see the President get treated with respect wherever he goes, but there are just some Presidents who absolutely fail to command such respect, even in his own country. So events like this come a no surprise at all.

  17. @ Tyrone
    The full extent of the damage done to the world is yet to be appreciated

    – quashing research into global warming and paying sock puppets to publish contradictory accounts thereby delaying the whole issue for EIGHT FKN YEARS.

    – bankrupting the world of capital

    – attempting to turn the clock back to the Dark Ages legally speaking

    On these 3 counts alone Bush has ruined the climate, finances and human rights of the entire world not just the US. But it’s the climate issue that will get us all, it’s going to make both industry and money meaningless, and it’s gone beyond the point where we can actually do anything about it, even if we stop making ANY co2 tomorrow. That is Bush’s legacy, but it’s no surprise he did the EXACT same in Texas as governor and people like YOU Tyrone, gave him the power despite his HORRENDOUS track record. YOU, Tyrone, YOU.

    Bush will be the Pinochet of the future, extradited to stand trial around the world. The US will be swamped with law suits from non industrial nations seeking damages caused by changes in the weather caused by global warming, suits looking for compensation for land mass lost due to rising seas.

  18. “Who profits from throwing away the old shoes?”
    “We now have good friends in the Association of Shoe Manufacturers.”

    Do it for the Old Shoe.

  19. Will he actually have to keep them, that’s the question.

    We used to have a protest here in Sweden (against, I think, the strong anti-immigration borders of the EU, this was ten years ago) which involved sending a brick to the prime minister, the beauty being that according to law all correspondence had to be archived for fifty years.

  20. This reminds me very little of the time I transcribed a classic Firesign Theatre bit:

    Shoes of industry! Shoes for the dead! Shoes for industry!

    Hi i’m Joe Beats.

    Hey, what chance does a returning deceased war veteran have
    for that good paying, job, more sugar, and the free mule you’ve been dreaming of?

    Well think it over, then take off your shoes.

    Now you can see how increased spending opportunities
    means harder work for everyone, and more of it too.

    So do your part today Joe, join the millions of your neighbors,
    and turn in your shoes..

    for industry!

  21. I have an old pair of steel-toed (with metatarsal plate!) work boots that weigh about 6 pounds each I can throw his way.

  22. “Responding to the comments regarding Bush’s illiteracy…isn’t he supposed to be an avid reader?”

    My 5 year old is an avid reader too. Doesn’t mean he’s picking up Shakespeare. The Little Engine That Could is topping his list right now. And somewhere I imagine that Bush’s list is similar.

    On topic: can’t people in the White House area simply throw their old shoes over the gate/walls in a public gesture of protest?

  23. In Band of Brothers, one of the best moments of resonance comes near the end of the last chapter, when Major Winters sees his former superior, the brutal Captain Sobel.

    Winters: Captain Sobel.
    Sobel: Major Winters.
    [Sobel does not salute, prepares to walk past.]
    Winters: Captain Sobel…… we salute the rank, not the man.
    [Sobel reluctantly stops and salutes.]

    I understand that many hate this President. I don’t dispute that he is due the historical legacy he has earned. Like OJ, President Bush will have to live with his actions at least for the rest of his life.

    However, I believe that disrespecting the President diminishes the office, and diminishes the rest of us as well. I think we can be better than that. I think we should try to be.

    I don’t say this for George W. Bush. I say this for ourselves. Just as granting forgiveness is something we do for ourselves, so is giving respect something we grant not for the man, but despite the man.

  24. If Bush himself had respected the Office of the President, Johne @30, I would agree. But he didn’t. He took the admirable tradition of respect for the office, and he used it to rape us.

    I don’t have shoes worthless enough to send him.

  25. Better yet, send them to the Red Cross, Goodwill, someplace where they will go to people who might need them, who might use them. If it makes you feel better, perhaps include a note in the shoe explaining why you’re gifting the shoes, win-win.

  26. S wht d w snd t Rd Blgjvch’s ffc? (Y mght nd t Ggl hs nm, snc y wn’t fnd ny psts bt hm hr n Bng Bng. Bt gwrsh, dd y gys s th mltpl psts bt tht gy wht thrw th shs t Chmpy McBshtlr? Hyk!)

    knw… Lt’s snd Blg th vwls tht r sr t b strppd frm ths cmmnt!

  27. How to salute a bad officer: Bring it up slowly like a handful of honey and then, when the salute is returned, throw it away like a handful of shit.

    Or an old shoe.

  28. Johne Cook – give decent shoes to Goodwill.

    Mail Bush the shoes the dog chewed then pissed in.

    And this isn’t about respect for the presidency. That’s why it’s brilliant to mail them to the GWB Library, and not the White House. I am not mailing my shitty old shoes to the President, I am mailing them to the memorial George Bush has set up to remember his actions as a man while he held that office.

    The office of the Presidency as an abstract concept might still deserve respect. But the man Bush deserves nothing but contempt.

    And yea, he’ll never actually get the shoes personally. But if thousands are sent, he’ll sure as hell know about them, and hopefully so will everyone else.

  29. The central front in the “war on terror” is not Iraq or Afghanistan, it’s the hearts-and-minds campaign. Kill one innocent Iraqi and you create 30 new terrorists; deliver rice to Indonesian flood victims and you drain the anti-American swamp of its support. This shoe incident vividly illustrates something we already knew: America is losing the hearts-and-minds campaign badly.

    As glad as I am about Obama’s victory, I’m sorry the American electorate didn’t stop Bush in his tracks back in 2004 when it was already apparent that his policies were subverting the Constitution and the ideals America stands for. Rejecting him back then would have won more than a few hearts and minds. But we let term limits do the job for us. Maybe we deserve to watch him saunter back to Texas without answering for the damage he’s done to our country.

    But it’s in our national interest to voice our discontent with George Bush, through footwear or otherwise.

  30. Sounds like a good old-fashioned shoe-in.
    Or is it a “shoo-in”?
    A shoe-in!
    For W. though soon a shoo-out.
    Shout shoo-out W.!

  31. “respecting the office” is an excuse. Bush is the best demonstration possible that “respecting the office” in lieu of thinking and acting is WRONG. Why do some people persist in grovelling before kings? A schmuck is a schmuck, regardless of funny hat. Voting someone into office doesn’t absolve you of responsibility when he opens the death camps.

    1. p3n3nc3,

      You don’t seem very happy here at BB, so I’ve relieved you of the burden of expressing your disappointment. Your account is suspended.

  32. THROW THEM ON THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN! Make a pile to rival the flowers left for Princess Diana!

    Join the facebook group: “If I visit DC, I vow to throw some shoes on the White House Lawn.”

  33. in a month or year or whenever, lets do another mailing: send mannequins to the Shoe President’s Liberry that are broken in the same places that Muntazer al-Zeidi body proves to be after being a guest of Bush “justice” Up to a broken hand and ribs so far.

  34. Well, say what you want, old Bush has got quicks. He moved like someone who’d had shoes thrown at him before.

  35. Oh, and how about a huge $500-million shoe?

    This would create a lot of jobs – remember the ‘New Deal’?

  36. #40 –

    Why do some people persist in grovelling before kings?

    Are you suggesting that ‘respect’ is a synonym for ‘grovelling’?

  37. #33 Johne Cook:
    Speaking as someone who grew up on Goodwill shoes and clothing out of necessity and is still not too far removed from that, let me just say that no one wants your dirty, stinkin’ old shoes. Some of the stuff people donate is just insulting; to think anyone wants that shit-stained underwear… LOL. Gently used shoes are needed and appreciated, anything else send to the dog that deserves them. I’ve got some worthless shoes lying around, but I probably can’t afford the postage, so I’ll be sending a drawing instead.

    Also: Salute the rank, not the man? Please. I respect knowledge, wisdom, and kindness.

  38. It’s 20 degrees outside here in Seattle; it’s cold all over the states right now. How about taking old, but good conditions shoes (or buy some new, inexpensive, good-quality shoes) and take them to the nearest homeless person you see, homeless shelter, or (safe) encampment. (In Seattle, a group of those needing shelter and shelter advocates have put together a camp, screened for good behavior, that’s designed to highlight the problem.)

    Let’s spite Bush through good acts. My wife went to the store with our two boys, bought a huge pile of lightweight, warm blankets, and dropped them off at the encampment mentioned above.

    That means a lot more than a political statement that will just inconvenience the library, not make a stink.

  39. @Johne Cook

    If the military allowed it’s men to elect their superior officers the Band of Brothers thing would stand up as a metaphor. The military is not a democracy, dissent is a crime. The event you described, were it to happen IRL, would see the junior officer punished with varying degrees of severity to be seen to enforce the idea that superior ranks cannot be questioned by inferior ranks.

    The Busharchy tried hard to introduce the quashing of dissent into US life with the charge of being “un’merican” for not agreeing with them. They certainly managed to muzzle US journalists, until it became clear the band of robbers were washed up. IN eight years the only time I ever saw anyone with the cojones to actually openly rub their noses in thier conceits was Stephen Colbert

    When satire becomes the only avenue for dissent, you’re usually in a dictatorship.

  40. A Presidential Library is, yes, a “library” – but mostly it’s a repository for donations from donors who are not required to be named. It’s a legal way for an ex-President to influence-peddle the world’s big machers on your behalf.

  41. Sorry, I find this whole idea of sending shoes to the presidential library about as funny as sending bullets.

    OK, it turns out the guy was “only” throwing shoes and didn’t hit anyone. But what if he did hit and injure someone? what if he had chosen to throw something other than a shoe: a rock, a grenade…

    n cntry whr cr bmbs, bhdngs, kdnppngs, mbsh nd xctns f bs pssngrs bsd n rlgn, nd mltry ccptn r wy f lf, jst dnt s hw ncrgng vlnc f ny knd s prdctv.

    Its just not fun nor funny, no matter how much you hate bush– and believe me, i hate gw bush.

    you want to make fun of bush? do it the old-fashioned (non-violent) way.

  42. I noticed that Cory posted a link to a website that suggests that you send your old shoes to the George Bush Presidential Library. This is a bad idea and who ever suggested this fails to realize that.

    1: George Bush will almost never be present in the library.

    2: The people who are employed at the George Bush Library are NOT employed by George Bush. Instead they are employed by the National Archives and are mostly museum people (eg registrars, education directors, IT people, etc) that have had nothing to do with Bush’s poor decision making in any way, shape, or form.

    Don’t get me wrong I hate George Bush and I am highly looking forwards to Jan 20th, but by doing this you are creating quite a bit of a headache for some good people trying to run a museum.

    Instead maybe send those shoes to his home or the white house where he will be present.

  43. @39

    “Maybe we deserve to watch him saunter back to Texas without answering for the damage he’s done to our country.”

    “What do you mean ‘We’, white man?”

    Many millions of us TRIED, some of us very hard; and I am not accepting one iota of guilt or blame for that son of a bitch. So please give us a break and knock off the “We” nonsense.

  44. tradition

    “Gail and I moved to New York in 1967 to play in the Garrick Theater on Bleecker Street. The first place we stayed, before we could find an apartment, was the Hotel Van Rensselaer on Eleventh Street. We were living in a small room on one of the upper floors. I was working on the album cover illustration for Absolutely Free at a desk by the window. I remember the place being so dirty I couldn’t keep the soot off the artwork.

    We lived on sandwiches and coffee from the Smiler’s Deli around the corner. It was cold enough that a container of milk left on the outside windowsill wouldn’t go bad for days (but when you brought it back in it was covered with soot). The Fugs, who were also working in the Village then, tried to launch a protest against Con Ed (the suspected source of this evil) by urging concerned citizens to mail their snot to the head office.”

    — Frank Zappa, The Real Frank Zappa Book, 1989

  45. markm, oh, if only it had connected! honestly, i find shoes to be far funnier than bullets, but what would be far more appropos would be to send a chunk of depleted uranium, or a small iraqi child’s mutilated limb. or a bill for $900,000,000,000,000 payable NOW. believe me, no matter how much you “hate” bush, it ain’t near enough. as far as i am concerned, dubya, dick, condi, rummy, albert, etal, are traitorous war criminals and should be taken out and tried in a global forum. then, let the punishment fit the crimes!

  46. “Instead maybe send those shoes to his home or the white house where he will be present.”

    They’d never reach his home or the white house, either. He will never personally see any of them, no matter where they’re sent, because he’ll have people screening his mail. But send enough, and everyone will know about it. It’s unfortunate they’ll have to deal with the shoes, but for headaches caused by peaceful protest that’s fairly mild.

    And it’s always a good thing to give to Goodwill or donate to homeless shelters. But it’s not a protest, it’s just a nice thing to do.

    And shoes are *not* bullets, or bombs, or any other kind of weapon. It’s the Iraqi equivalent of throwing soiled underwear at a hated figure. It’s not a threat of violence, just a dramatic way of letting them know exactly how disgusting and worthless they are.

    Yea, I suppose it’s theoretically possible for someone to choke to death on thrown soiled underwear. Or you could be hit on the head by a rotten egg, fall backwards, hit your head on a table edge and die. But that still doesn’t make mailing filthy things to a person the same as a mail bomb.

  47. jbjordin, awww, that is sooo cute, yer lil strawman with the drool on his lil slackjawed chin! it just gives me a warm cuddly feeling to know that ol g.dub has got intelligent and thoughtful folk like u looking out for him and his image. u are a great appologist for the republican party! woot! i feel more ‘merikin alreddy!

  48. What happened to the Iraq Shoe Tosser animated gif page? I saw it two hours ago, and it’s gone! Did the SS come down on you guys to take it down already? I laughed so hard when I saw it, so I hope it’s just a technical glitch!

  49. So what happened to the shoe tossing GIFs Boing Boing entry? Violation of Boing Boing’s ethics rules? Threats from the CIA or the CPA?

  50. If Bush ever appears in public again, my hope is that people will greet him by waving their shoes at him.

    Regarding ‘respecting the office’; what a bunch of authoritarian crap. That’s what they counted on, so that they could go about their business of committing wholesale war crimes and bankrupting the country.

    The ‘authorities’ love people with this attitude, because they are just little sock puppets who will do whatever the ‘authorities’ tell them to do.

  51. #76 – My precedent goes back about 2000 years. It has less to do with ‘authoritarian crap,’ and more with another standard of behavior entirely.

    And according to my standard, the authorities in question answer for their behavior in full, so it’s not like anybody’s getting off light.

  52. And according to my standard, the authorities in question answer for their behavior in full, so it’s not like anybody’s getting off light.

    See Johne, that’s where you and I differ. My standard says there is no Judgement, so it’s up to us to hold people accountable, here and now. If what you say is true, why do we even bother defending ourselves, as nations or people? Forget laws. Forget just wars. Forget defending the weak. Forget providing for the future.

    Don’t even bother, Johne says it’ll be fine.

  53. a camel-shit pie by preference.

    Johne: (restraint,restraint, pointed not doing, pregnant silence,forbearance, forbearance ) there, I kept my promise to honour the memory of Bettie Page and acknowledged Teresa.

  54. Johne Cook @79, the man never said anything about American politicians. He had plenty to say about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, turning the other cheek, and telling the truth. He also had words for those who professed to be his followers and speak in his name who weren’t doing his will.

    George was just the kind of fellow who got up his nose.

    Also, how much American history do you know, that you think it’s traditional for us to automatically respect the office when we don’t respect the man?

    I think we’d be more respectful if we thought he had any respect for the position. He doesn’t, and he never has. That rankles.

  55. IWood @21 FTW.

    A User @24, please stop using all-caps or I’ll start disemvowelling those words.

    Johne Cook @31, how do you feel about the Republicans’ treatment of Clinton while he was in office?

    Most people feel that granting Bush the respect he so obviously hasn’t earned would be disrespectful of the office of President of the United States. They also understand that Zairi’s insult was aimed at Bush personally, not at the country or the office.

    Personally, respect for Bush stopped being an option for me when he and his suggested that those who disagreed with their war plans were unpatriotic, possibly even traitors. It didn’t help that they tried to push the idea that the only appropriate response during wartime is to go along with what the government is doing.

    If I’d had any qualms about my decision, Bush & Co.’s suspension of habeas corpus would have laid them to rest.

    @34: Giving to the Red Cross and Goodwill are fine things in their own right, but they’re no substitute for the proposed action. Bush really is one of the biggest losers in American history, and his inexplicable remaining supporters will just have to get used to that.

    @54: You know, grovelling — that thing people come in and demand you do when you damned well don’t feel like it.

    Takuan @46: How’s this?

    Markm @61:

    Sorry, I find this whole idea of sending shoes to the presidential library about as funny as sending bullets.

    That’s odd, seeing as how shoes are a harmless protest, whereas bullets are bullets.

    OK, it turns out the guy was “only” throwing shoes and didn’t hit anyone. But what if he did hit and injure someone?

    Traditional Middle Eastern shoes tend to have a lot less mass than traditional Northern European shoes. That’s why Middle Easterners regard throwing a shoe at someone as a symbolic (albeit deeply insulting) gesture.

    what if he had chosen to throw something other than a shoe: a rock, a grenade…

    Do you imagine there’s no security on Bush’s press conferences? Zairi couldn’t have gotten a grenade into that room. I doubt he could have gotten a rock in, either.

    n cntry whr cr bmbs, bhdngs, kdnppngs, mbsh nd xctns f bs pssngrs bsd n rlgn, nd mltry ccptn r wy f lf, jst dnt s hw ncrgng vlnc f ny knd s prdctv.

    They aren’t a way of life. They’re unfortunate events in a country whose way of life has been smashed to pieces.

    Its just not fun nor funny, no matter how much you hate bush– and believe me, i hate gw bush.

    I think it’s plenty funny. A remarkable number of people all around the world would agree.

    you want to make fun of bush? do it the old-fashioned (non-violent) way.

    Markm, I don’t know what you’re smoking. The proposal is to make fun of Bush in a nonviolent way.

    My favorite cartoon so far.

  56. Did you miss it? Stop being silly. Grow up. Stop yammering and start hammering.

    It’s #57, Glenn at Seattle, FTW. ABSOLUTELY. (with my follow-up at #67).

    You can do some good, as well as being scathingly critical OF GWB and all he stands for. Imagine a torrent of charitable receipts arriving at the library. They can’t throw the envelopes away without opening them — they might contain money! Surely a staff member or a P.O. employee will leak the count. It’s as good a goof as throwing money down on the floor of the NY Stock Exchange.

    Where are the goddamn Yippees now that we need them?

  57. #85 – Hey, Teresa.

    I have always shown respect to President Clinton even when I disagreed with him, but I’m hardly a typical Republican. I’m hardly a typical anything.

    I’d call myself a mainstream Browncoat, but as it turns out, they really could take the sky from me. Sigh.

  58. It should be noted that this library does not exist yet. The library won’t be completed for a couple more years (I don’t think construction has even started), so I’m not sure exactly where at the university these shoes would end up. That address is about a stones throw from my work address at the university, so I hope to god they don’t appear on my doorstep.

  59. @teller: Speaking about ‘donations’ for a ‘library’ for a ‘President’ who is widely known to have served the sole interests of his ‘friends’ (who now – surprise, surprise – turn into ‘donators’)*.

    Are you completely sure that the whole process has absolutely nothing to do with such a nasty word like ‘corruption’?

    Just asking.

    *while thousands of people are still being wounded, tortured, killed, smashed to pieces – all of this for no apparent reasons. And the economy… IMO, W. deserves to be jailed for lifetime and nothing else.

  60. #89 – Well, for one, I’ve always referred to the President by his title and not by any of the slurs people used to diminish someone they didn’t care for. For another, I didn’t invent slimy things about him and pass them around as truth. I know people who have similar politics as mine who have done / do those things. It’s not my way.

    I don’t like the tactic of diminishing people one doesn’t agree with. I believe it is possible to vigorously debate an opponent without desiring their utter destruction, but that’s consistent with my worldview of the universal neighborhood of Man (by which I mean ‘persons’).

  61. #93 – Have you noticed that I’m not defending George Bush himself in the slightest?

    #31 – “I understand that many hate this President. I don’t dispute that he is due the historical legacy he has earned. Like OJ, President Bush will have to live with his actions at least for the rest of his life.”

    #79 – “And according to my standard, the authorities in question answer for their behavior in full, so it’s not like anybody’s getting off light.”

  62. Johne Cook @88: orphaned intelligent trad, at a guess? If so, I’m sympathetic. That’s gotten to be a lonely position, but it’s not one its native inhabitants can lightly abandon.


    I believe it is possible to vigorously debate an opponent without desiring their utter destruction, but that’s consistent with my worldview of the universal neighborhood of Man (by which I mean ‘persons’).

    Man, mann, mannaz, check. I imagine you and I both watched the 2000 South Carolina primary with a sense of horror. Debate is a testing of propositions, not a fight to the death.

    I will distinguish between false, unnecessary, or irrelevant diminution used with intent to gain an unreasonable advantage, which is bad, and honestly intended exercises in true naming for the sake of clarity, which clarity is meant to enable (but not compel) reasonable persuasion to take place.

    @94: Justice is better than injustice, and mercy better still; but mercy without judgement is a blank check that’s more often written by sloth or indifference than charity. Instances of charity are admirable.

    Also: Yes. I have noticed you aren’t defending Bush.

  63. everytime i see a quote from dick, all i can hear is burgess merideth as “the penguin” on the old ‘batman’ t.v. series. mwaa,mwaa,mwaaa.

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