In the same warzones are men dying too? All equally shitty.

Violence isn’t acceptable FULL STOP. NO need to genderise it.

I don’t care if GTA has carjacking in it or not. As a rape victim, I have a big problem with anything that would make rape anything that what it is.

Until you speak from the experience of being assaulted and raped Redmond Cooper – your argument means nothing.

In reference to Amazon’s control over their marketplace sellers, they actually do have a say! I used to work for one of them and books were frequently removed from the site for not complying (yes, just about anything can be listed…) with their policies. For example, a particular book describing how to grow pot, caused a problem with amazon.com’s policies and was removed.

They have a vague list of restricted products here. I wouldn’t be surprised if the game was pulled very soon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200277040

As for the nature of the game, I honestly can’t even comment.

Its completely unnacceptable in any context. Again there is no need to split it among genders.

thanks for correcting me. let’s see if remembering exactly what you said betters my comment:

“I distrust people who play GTA, to be frank. I think there’s something wrong with them. I would cut off all contact with someone who played this game more than once.

I bet none of the guys who play this game would play one where the PLAYER has to avoid being raped by gangs of men.

Choose a male or female character, either one.”

so you judge people by the games they play namely GTA. (possibly by the films, music or books you dislike too?) you think that there is something wrong with them. moreover you fantasize about games that they would or would not play on a pure hypothetical basis of your own.

no substantial difference with my original comment. you seem to think that people are the direct product of what they watch, read or play. for your information Hitler was an avid reader and had a 12.000 book library. what does this say about reading? are people who read potential Hitlers?

my opinion remains. your point of view is more disturbing than a kinky sex toy or a violent video game. and that is because you imply a thought crime even if you will not openly admit it. you admit treating people who like stuff you hate as potential criminals so there is no need denying your bigotry.

see being gay does not mean that you are automatically a civil liberties hero. i wouldn’t stop speaking to you only because you “stick it to a sissy” you prefer butch guys with muscle and you are not above “receiving” either even if these practises are not my cup of tea. i don’t care what you do in your bedroom as long as you are a decent person. yet you would be prejudiced against and possibly stop talking to me because i play a video game. you get the irony?

you are no better than the religious zealots. and grats for inventing the “straight community”. i didn’t think heterosexuals were a minority before reading your comments.

grow up mate.

The fact that you broke the rules and saw the picture is not the same as “marketed to children”. Different game altogether.

Don’t play “devil’s advocate” when you have ZERO knowledge or experience of what you are actually suggesting. Soliciting is on par with rape? Carjacking is as much a violation as rape? Murder, well – you know, there have been lots of times I wish I had been simply because I wouldn’t have to remember it anymore.

For this “certain segment of the population” spazzm – I think I have a right to demand not only that this game is banned, but that every bit of it is is destroyed. Rape isn’t a game and it’s not an issue of free speech.

I guess there’s like a hardcore part of the game where you stick it in and make girls cry more. It’s definitely weird but inspiring real rape? Hmmm. Let me know when those dots reliably connect.

the main page is here:
http://www.warhw.com

I’ve been posting stuff about real war-related propaganda lately, rather than fiction. The fiction scoring system full explanation is here:

http://www.warhw.com/war-handwavium-scoring-system/

THe short version, the score card without explanations, is here:

http://www.warhw.com/declaration-of-warhw-short-form/

and the three works of fiction that I’ve actually scored are here:

http://www.warhw.com/war-handwavium-in-fiction/

Hm, “300″, “Watchmen”, and “V for Vendetta”. I thought I’d done a couple more, but I guess not.

I should go rent some DVD’s.

Jack, please provide specific evidence or citation of GTA 4 being specifically marketed toward children.

If you check my comment history you can dig up what I said in the past about GTA being marketed to kids. Here’s the rundown.

1) It’s a video game: Sorry to say, the whole “video games are not just for kids” nonsense is just that. Walk into any GameStop and I doubt you’re going to find it filled with adults.
2) The posters, packaging and artwork are designed with bright colors and simple pictures that are designed to appeal to kids. Things marketed to adults don’t have that kind of design… Even comic books that are marketed to adults are not that cartoony.
3) Rockstar games go out of their ways to place promotional materials at amusement parks and teen concerts. Pass by most any skate shop that caters to kids and you can find a Rockstar logo.

For more info on how kids get their hands on games that Rockstar says they shouldn’t get, check out this Wired piece here.

And on that note, I saw a group of 11/12 year old skate kids harassing a guy who was selling glass pipes in Union Square. The kids were shoutings: “That stuff is for pot!” and the guy was saying “No, it’s strictly for tobacco use and enjoyment…”

Everyone was laughing including the beat cop who heard this all go down nearby.

The world is weird like that.

Thanks for being so flip, its really really cool of you.

When viewed in light of a global patriarchal world culture that foster systemic violence against women, people defending a simulator specifically designed for the enjoyment of violence against women as “no big deal” are at the same time reinforcing the view that violence against women is “no big deal.” As in, its not a big enough problem IRL to justify anger at a simulator (which, in case you are wondering, is “the imitation of some real thing, state of affairs, or process.”).

“But…no one is doing that here, right?

My point is that you ARE doing that here by virtue of trying to portray outrage at this sim as some sort of unjustified anomaly.

i have daughters. do you?

Also, seriously, would you date a chick who likes to play video games where she tortures and castrates men?

1. I identify as straight but have increasing bisexual tendencies.

2. I was drugged and raped by at least two men when I was 18.

3. I don’t link rape representation to patriarchial violence since I and everyone I know hates real rapists with a passion.

4. I might try that game out of experiencing for myself what it was “about” instead of getting caught up in the controversy, but I doubt I would think it was fun. I do enjoy GTA rampages (ask someone to explain them to you) but not as much as my girlfriend does.

5. I think the argument that games are “sucking” people away from human interaction is false. I would invert that and state that video games are capable of serving introverts very well. Books did that just as well when you were young (and not all readers are “productive readers” just to head that argument off too).

6. I don’t think it is a good idea to disinfranchise homosexual male rape survivors by stating that it doesn’t happen to them. Gay and lesbian rape and domestic violence issues are being swept under the rug as you type. The community does resists talking about it for fear of harming the gay rights cause.

7. There is very little academic information about male on male rape but from what I have read it is usually the case where the perp and the victim are of the same sexual orientation.

8. The man that drugged me claimed to have been forced into prostitution in Vietnam so he may very well have been as straight as me.

9. Queer is a good term and I identify with it as do a number of my friends. It is the deconstructed space between gay and straight (since neither will have us). Deconstructionism is a good thing; you should embrace it.

10. I would never play that game in front of a rape survivor. If I did get caught playing it in front of a rape survivor I would be sure to spend a lot of time with this person afterwards to make sure they would understand the difference between the game and how I felt about them.

11. I are really happy to see this debate take place. I think that people should talk about rape more often in order to destigmatize it. Any survivor should not have to feel as though they are “reduced” in quality as a human being. Eventually any rational discussion, if it long enough, will conclude that it is an obvious fact that a rape survivor is not in fact any less a person.

12. I am attracted to rape survivors. Unless they still suffer from PTSD, they often know themselves very well sexually.

13. Dealing with someone that has PTSD is not as scary as you think. It is perhaps saddening though.

14. People that perform rape fantasies are often required to be skilled enough to help their female partner “come back together” after. If you do it to a lover, don’t roll over and snooze immedieately after.

15. If you were recently raped, or suspect you were raped, you should seek counselling immediately. It will dramtically reduce your chances of developing PTSD.

I think differences in reporting of rape cases also plays a pretty major role in these stats.

However, Australia is getting pretty weird these days, with it now apparently being illegal to watch a cartoon depicting children having sex.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/08/2441023.htm [news story]
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08%2F12%2F08%2F1515211&from=rss [slashdot thread]

As with this case, I am a bit uncomfortable with the content, but there’s no way I’m going to accuse someone of committing thoughtcrime.

After seeing the discussion of GTA in this thread, I think my statement that I would distrust people who play it was probably foolish.

And believe me, I’m well aware that gay people are not automatically defenders of civil liberties! I’ve met some that are were absolute fascists (and I don’t user the term lightly).

Your comment: MUCH improved by reading my actual comment.

I too have been raped Zombie which is why i’m commenting anonamously. I also happen to be a male and have been in jail as well, though i wasn’t raped while i was locked up. I’ve played GTA and I’ve also assulted a person in a fight with kitchen knife leading to my going to jail. Stabbing someone for real, and stabbing them in a game are just not the same thing.

When I assaulted the person I was fighting, they were trying to push my head into a pot of boiling soup. Even though I reacted out of self defense, i still felt really horrible as the person was a coworker of mine i just didn’t get along with. Violence is always wrong. Whether it’s against women or men, and whether or not it’s sexual or physical.

It always used to bother me in prison when everyone thought they should kill or rape child molesters, but inexplicably gave respect to men who dragged black people behind their truck out of racial hatred. If you kill someones child/spouse/parent/sibling or rape them, it’s equally awful, though when I’ve pressed people on the issue most would rather have their loved one raped then killed, because at least the person still exist after they’re raped.

On the issue of GTA3 I got rid of this game after a few friends of mine were murdered at a party when a guy opened fire on the house during a fight. I just couldn’t handle playing the game anymore after that, nore can i always handle watching the rape scenes in movies like “I spit on your grave”, “Ichi the Killer” or “American History X”. But that doesn’t mean these things shouldn’t exist.

My rights as a victim don’t trump freedom of speech, and it’s precisely our right to free speech that allows us to talk openly about resolving what are symptoms of social illness and inequality. While it’s ok for men and women to be different on matters of trivial difference. No one in our society deserves to be treated unequally in terms of personal safety and basic physical security. Even inmates have the right not to get raped. One of the earlier commentators had a good point about everyone thinking the game was fine if prisoners were being raped. What if the game featured inmate raped by guards and was based in Gitmo? Would it be ok then?

Violence of any kind, is and must remain always wrong, regardless of the gender, age, race, or sexual orientation of the victim. And everyone has the right to defend themselves. I may not have been happy about going to jail for what i did, but I do agree with the laws they used to prosecute me and the sentence i got was fair for my crime. but violence is and always will be a crime of action. You can’t ban games just because you don’t like the content. The fact that their are rape games like this in Japan is a symptom of social and sexual repression on everyone in Japan with an admittedly larger portion of that repression pushed on women. It’s all wrong and it all needs to stop. Censure ship will just drive it under ground creating even greater repression and even more bizarre acts of resistance and explosive psychological expression.

Like it or not this game is just a symptom of a great and dramatic reaction to the notoriously stressful pace of Japanese life. one the places an over emphasis on competition and alienates individual emotion. Do I think you should play it? Fuck no. Do I think it should exist? It doesn’t matter what i think, just like corporate corruption or child rape among catholic clergy, it’s an inevitable result of sexual repression among Japanese culture, and sexist culture stereo types. It’s supply and demand baby. it exist because there is a demand for it. if you want it to go away, look at the source of the demand.

And yes the packaging and marketing style is in a form that’s appealing to kids and adolescents, which is definitely fucked up, but why do kids want this stuff? What would make them want it? Why does this kind of marketing work in the first place? those are the questions you should be asking.

Having said that, there’s a big difference between a fair-fight game and a sadistic game where you abuse a victim.

And on that note, can the women in GTA fight back on an equal footing as men? Not really. Nuff said, EXCELSIOR!

I did actually find some of your arguments reasonably convincing, once you addressed my actual statements. But the tag line doesn’t make me more inclined to listen to you. Just some possibly-useful feedback.

Rating systems are ridiculous. And protect nobody.

i know that no one explicitly asked for a legal ban, but i think that is more than obvious that it was implied in many comments. it’s tragicomic actually since there is no “rape simulator” video game category, this is all about a one of japanese curiosity. and i don’t think that there is actually a mass market for sexual abuse games as there is not a mass market for other extreme stuff. if there were we would be full of 2 girls one cup games.

yet many people grabbed the opportunity to bash video games in general. GTA for some reason is a fave target, though there are more violent ones around. and strangely enough the “think of the children croud” ever so informed on that satanic game establishment never named “america’s army” a game paid and developed by the US goverment for recruiting purposes and actually a fotorealistic killing simulator. (fun fact: iranians developed a similar game where the bad ones are the americans)

i guess killing for the goverment is better than random rampage.

What? How does that work? Has anybody ever been sodomized by a dinky piss-hard-on? I was a prepubescent boy and I couldn’t have sodomized a marshmallow. But if you say so…

At least it wouldn’t hurt.

‘Violence against women’ doesn’t mean “no hitting girls” – it refers to specific crimes which are disproportionately against women, such as domestic abuse and rape. (Yes, there are cases where women abuse their boyfriends/husbands, gay relationships can be abusive, and men can be raped too; but overall these victimize women). Importantly, these crimes are often excused because they are against women (“she had it coming”) in a way that other crimes aren’t.

I think what disturbs me, at least, about this game is that there doesn’t seem to be any purpose to it besides getting off on rape. Most people who play GTA aren’t really interested in going on killing sprees. In contrast, I don’t think anyone who doesn’t fantasize about rape would play this game.

Kittens?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law)

And yeah, necrophilia would be the over-arching term considering the situation. But how do we explain the respawning? :P