Comments on: Kangaroo Court: a video explaining New Zealand's new "guilt-on-accusation" anti-Internet law http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Mon, 20 May 2013 04:44:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414503 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414503 90% Probable: Roll 1d20 against AC of 18, and 1,000,000d10 for damages. 90% Probable: Roll 1d20 against AC of 18, and 1,000,000d10 for damages.

]]> By: winkybb http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414765 winkybb Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414765 I think I get the message about guilt upon accusation. A very dangerous precedent. I agree that this is the real (and important issue). However, it is just possible that a lot of people see protests against copyright prosecutions and against laws like this as having an ulterior motive - "We actually want to be left alone when we break the law because we really, really, really like all the free music, TV, games and movies we get. We're poor, we're battlers and we're not powerful corporations so we should just be left alone to steal this stuff". A lot of people assume that this is the argument - even if it isn't really the one that is being made. I think that a lot of the copyright protection and the enforcement strategies are indeed bu!!$h!+, and worth fighting, but can we fight them more effectively by holding a higher moral ground than simply "It's only a tiny infraction so why are you hassling me, man?". I think I get the message about guilt upon accusation. A very dangerous precedent. I agree that this is the real (and important issue).

However, it is just possible that a lot of people see protests against copyright prosecutions and against laws like this as having an ulterior motive – “We actually want to be left alone when we break the law because we really, really, really like all the free music, TV, games and movies we get. We’re poor, we’re battlers and we’re not powerful corporations so we should just be left alone to steal this stuff”. A lot of people assume that this is the argument – even if it isn’t really the one that is being made.

I think that a lot of the copyright protection and the enforcement strategies are indeed bu!!$h!+, and worth fighting, but can we fight them more effectively by holding a higher moral ground than simply “It’s only a tiny infraction so why are you hassling me, man?”.

]]> By: Babau http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-415028 Babau Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-415028 Pedantic, I know, but there aren't any roos in NZ as far as I'm aware. Just wallabies. Pedantic, I know, but there aren’t any roos in NZ as far as I’m aware. Just wallabies.

]]> By: chelfyn http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-415036 chelfyn Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-415036 what else would one expect to find in a kangaroo court? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court what else would one expect to find in a kangaroo court?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414803 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414803 CHEFLYN, Thanks for making this. More exposure is excellent! But why did you use 'roos? CHEFLYN,

Thanks for making this. More exposure is excellent! But why did you use ‘roos?

]]> By: Oren Beck http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414306 Oren Beck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414306 Guilt or innocence is an obsolete concept for some folks. Let alone the even more incomprehensible to them abstractions we used to call right and wrong. Or am I understating it? Though Ignorantia Nhil Excusat is self explanatory too. Guilt or innocence is an obsolete concept for some folks. Let alone the even more incomprehensible to them abstractions we used to call right and wrong. Or am I understating it? Though Ignorantia Nhil Excusat is self explanatory too.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-415088 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-415088 Yeah - I don't think the kangaroos have anything to do with NZ geographically. It's a reference to kangaroo courts. Australia doesn't have a monopoly on those! (Unfortunately.) Yeah – I don’t think the kangaroos have anything to do with NZ geographically. It’s a reference to kangaroo courts. Australia doesn’t have a monopoly on those! (Unfortunately.)

]]> By: spazzm http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414656 spazzm Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414656 What's stopping anyone from sending three infringement notices to the ISP of the proponents of this law? What’s stopping anyone from sending three infringement notices to the ISP of the proponents of this law?

]]> By: chelfyn http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414667 chelfyn Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414667 As the creator of the video, I'd like to point out that this was not intended as a simplistic piece of propaganda. I set out to create a nuanced piece, which, due to it's context in #blackout is being is being judged now in different terms. case # 1 (guilty, it's a fair cop, but a tiny infraction) - the pirated TV episode. This is to illustrate proportionality. You can be taken off the net for downloading something that has already been broadcast for free. case # 2 (guilty, but there is a possible fair use defense) - is to illustrate that there can often be fair use of material, but you can't fight that case in court when your accuser is also judge, and there's no jury. case # 3 - (innocent) - it's obvious. automatic algorithms to determine copyright infringement are bad enough, but to have no court in which to fight them is even worse. Please don't interpret the use of these examples as a message condoning breaking the law. Concentrate on the actual message - it's a kangaroo court and your guilt or innocence is irrelevant. It's not about copyright, it's about guilt upon accusation. As the creator of the video, I’d like to point out that this was not intended as a simplistic piece of propaganda. I set out to create a nuanced piece, which, due to it’s context in #blackout is being is being judged now in different terms.

case # 1 (guilty, it’s a fair cop, but a tiny infraction) – the pirated TV episode. This is to illustrate proportionality. You can be taken off the net for downloading something that has already been broadcast for free.

case # 2 (guilty, but there is a possible fair use defense) – is to illustrate that there can often be fair use of material, but you can’t fight that case in court when your accuser is also judge, and there’s no jury.

case # 3 – (innocent) – it’s obvious. automatic algorithms to determine copyright infringement are bad enough, but to have no court in which to fight them is even worse.

Please don’t interpret the use of these examples as a message condoning breaking the law. Concentrate on the actual message – it’s a kangaroo court and your guilt or innocence is irrelevant. It’s not about copyright, it’s about guilt upon accusation.

]]> By: BritSwedeGuy http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-415181 BritSwedeGuy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-415181 England embraced assumed guilt long ago, although many don't realise it. When you're snapped by a speed camera you're automatically convicted unless you appeal against it, and if you do then the penalties upon conviction increase - how's that for fixing the scales of justice? England embraced assumed guilt long ago, although many don’t realise it. When you’re snapped by a speed camera you’re automatically convicted unless you appeal against it, and if you do then the penalties upon conviction increase – how’s that for fixing the scales of justice?

]]> By: EyeSpy Guy http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-415209 EyeSpy Guy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-415209 When 80% of the population breaks a law, it is an unjust law. Every single poster here has illegally copied music, video or software. The moral high ground is a bit scarce. It is reprihensible that the NZ government bowing to pressure to commercial interests and selling out the people it is supposed to represent. Draconian punishments of copyright offenders haven't worked and they won't work. NZ is supposed to be a Democracy, not a corporate state. The voters need to come down on this like a hammer, or they may never regain what they have lost here. When 80% of the population breaks a law, it is an unjust law. Every single poster here has illegally copied music, video or software. The moral high ground is a bit scarce.

It is reprihensible that the NZ government bowing to pressure to commercial interests and selling out the people it is supposed to represent. Draconian punishments of copyright offenders haven’t worked and they won’t work.

NZ is supposed to be a Democracy, not a corporate state. The voters need to come down on this like a hammer, or they may never regain what they have lost here.

]]> By: winkybb http://boingboing.net/2009/02/18/kangaroo-court-a-vid.html#comment-414459 winkybb Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-414459 I thought the video was stupid. The "accused" had knowingly broken the existing copyright law (not the dumb new law) and basically used the defence "I broke the law because I really wanted to and therefore it is OK". There are surely better examples they could have used to illustrate the folly of this dumb-seeming new law. I thought the video was stupid. The “accused” had knowingly broken the existing copyright law (not the dumb new law) and basically used the defence “I broke the law because I really wanted to and therefore it is OK”.

There are surely better examples they could have used to illustrate the folly of this dumb-seeming new law.

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