Comments on: A fair EULA for downloaded works http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:11:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: WeightedCompanionCube http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-425238 WeightedCompanionCube Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425238 Midknyte - MP3 != theft. I never said that, and you're obnoxious for saying I did. Can <i>you</i> read "plain English"? I just pointed out that even though everyone uses it, it's not the best choice for DRM-free purchased music. If I'm paying close to the same price as a CD, I'd like something lossless such as FLAC and compress it to whatever format I please. Midknyte – MP3 != theft. I never said that, and you’re obnoxious for saying I did. Can you read “plain English”?

I just pointed out that even though everyone uses it, it’s not the best choice for DRM-free purchased music. If I’m paying close to the same price as a CD, I’d like something lossless such as FLAC and compress it to whatever format I please.

]]> By: gotmike http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423452 gotmike Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423452 I love the concept, but it doesn't make it clear to the user what they can and can't do with the work. If the statement doesn't grant a license, then any copying, distributing or modifying the work would violate copyright. If the statement is intended to imply that certain uses of the material are permitted without violating copyright, it is hard to determine where the line is. Out of curiosity, I would love to see people reply in the comments with what they think would and wouldn't be permitted under the EULA. Which of the following do you think would be permitted under the proposed license: 1. Use of the software; 2. Copying the software; 3. Distributing copies to other people; 4. Making modifications and derivative works of the software for your own use; 5. Making modifications and derivative works to sell to other people? I realize the example was intended to make a point, but I think it would be useful to build on the idea and create a short EULA that is respectful to users and includes a little more detail about what the author expects the user to be able to do with the material. I love the concept, but it doesn’t make it clear to the user what they can and can’t do with the work. If the statement doesn’t grant a license, then any copying, distributing or modifying the work would violate copyright. If the statement is intended to imply that certain uses of the material are permitted without violating copyright, it is hard to determine where the line is. Out of curiosity, I would love to see people reply in the comments with what they think would and wouldn’t be permitted under the EULA. Which of the following do you think would be permitted under the proposed license:

1. Use of the software;

2. Copying the software;

3. Distributing copies to other people;

4. Making modifications and derivative works of the software for your own use;

5. Making modifications and derivative works to sell to other people?

I realize the example was intended to make a point, but I think it would be useful to build on the idea and create a short EULA that is respectful to users and includes a little more detail about what the author expects the user to be able to do with the material.

]]> By: Xopher http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423464 Xopher Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423464 GotMike, the point of EULAs is to restrict use beyond what copyright laws already prescribe and proscribe. A EULA that merely explains copyright law isn't very useful to the company trying to do that. What Cory's doing is essentially saying that EULAs are a bad thing. GotMike, the point of EULAs is to restrict use beyond what copyright laws already prescribe and proscribe. A EULA that merely explains copyright law isn’t very useful to the company trying to do that. What Cory’s doing is essentially saying that EULAs are a bad thing.

]]> By: WeightedCompanionCube http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423725 WeightedCompanionCube Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423725 Nidknyte - MP3 might be universal, but it isn't free as in speech OR beer. Strictly speaking, all distributors of products or media that utilize MP3 must pay royalties to Thompson/Fraunhofer. Sheesh, they've even got a website: http://mp3licensing.com/ Nidknyte – MP3 might be universal, but it isn’t free as in speech OR beer.

Strictly speaking, all distributors of products or media that utilize MP3 must pay royalties to Thompson/Fraunhofer.

Sheesh, they’ve even got a website: http://mp3licensing.com/

]]> By: midknyte http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-424005 midknyte Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424005 @10 "...Nidknyte - MP3 might be universal, but it isn't free as in speech OR beer..." Where in my post did I utter the word free? And why does everyone dogmatically equate mp3 with theft. You've been trained very, very well. Sheesh, I even wrote it in plain English. @10 “…Nidknyte – MP3 might be universal, but it isn’t free as in speech OR beer…”

Where in my post did I utter the word free? And why does everyone dogmatically equate mp3 with theft. You’ve been trained very, very well.

Sheesh, I even wrote it in plain English.

]]> By: Avram / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423498 Avram / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423498 My favorite software EULA was one I saw in the '80s. I think the software was either a screensaver or a hard drive defragmenter. (Or both.) I don't recall the exact wording, but it was along the lines of: We're not going to tell you that you have to buy a license of this software for every computer you use it on in your office, because we know you wouldn't do it. But at least don't share it around to your friends and neighbors. We have rent to pay, too. My favorite software EULA was one I saw in the ’80s. I think the software was either a screensaver or a hard drive defragmenter. (Or both.) I don’t recall the exact wording, but it was along the lines of: We’re not going to tell you that you have to buy a license of this software for every computer you use it on in your office, because we know you wouldn’t do it. But at least don’t share it around to your friends and neighbors. We have rent to pay, too.

]]> By: midknyte http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423509 midknyte Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423509 "...So now the pitch goes: "We gave you what you asked for, you've brought us to our knees. Now, please stop ripping us off and start buying music again – we're offering a fair deal..." No, and no. DRM is only being dropped in mantra. 2 out of the 3 major vendors of music downloads (in my mind those are iTunes, Amazon, and the Zune platform), still enforce device tie-in. Just sell the dog-gamned music, in an accepted standard format (high bitrate mp3 please) and let me walk away [and play it on the device of "my" choosing]. “…So now the pitch goes: “We gave you what you asked for, you’ve brought us to our knees. Now, please stop ripping us off and start buying music again – we’re offering a fair deal…”

No, and no. DRM is only being dropped in mantra. 2 out of the 3 major vendors of music downloads (in my mind those are iTunes, Amazon, and the Zune platform), still enforce device tie-in.

Just sell the dog-gamned music, in an accepted standard format (high bitrate mp3 please) and let me walk away [and play it on the device of "my" choosing].

]]> By: Jeff http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423792 Jeff Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423792 Is it just a myth that what people find on the internet (stuff they can download), they expect to get for free? And that’s just because people figured out how to share music with their friends (or some variant thereof), to the point where it became the perfect way to get music without paying for it. I want DMR free music and audio books, but then there has to be some logical way to deal with pirated entertainment. AI surveillance of all net traffic? She will know if the files are allowed. No more child porn either. Mother will make the internet safe again. Is it just a myth that what people find on the internet (stuff they can download), they expect to get for free? And that’s just because people figured out how to share music with their friends (or some variant thereof), to the point where it became the perfect way to get music without paying for it. I want DMR free music and audio books, but then there has to be some logical way to deal with pirated entertainment. AI surveillance of all net traffic? She will know if the files are allowed. No more child porn either. Mother will make the internet safe again.

]]> By: Baldhead http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423332 Baldhead Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423332 Yeah but that wastes the grand opportunity to fid new ways to define copyright law. Yeah but that wastes the grand opportunity to fid new ways to define copyright law.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423357 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423357 Seems redundant. Might as well say: Don't do drugs Don't shoot yourself Don't be evil or Don't do stuff you shouldn't do. Seems redundant. Might as well say:
Don’t do drugs
Don’t shoot yourself
Don’t be evil
or
Don’t do stuff you shouldn’t do.

]]> By: Nur http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423880 Nur Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423880 I think it's still too early to say "don't violate copyright law" and leave it at that. The field's been around for a long, long time but the principles have only been applied to individuals in the last 15 or so years. The majority of people alive today (including my 20 year old self) would have been alive when it was still only commercial publishers or the most fevered of photocopying librarians who could even attempt to breach copyright law. The law on the area is in no way settled and until the law actually is settled it's literally against people's human rights to expect them to follow the strange and unwritten rules that they don't know yet. Wait a few years, watch the outcome of a few trials which aren't immediately called mistrials (especially wait for one which actually takes place in the UK) before you can actually point to "copyright law" as something you can follow or at least not break, at least beyond common sense things like if "someone pays someone else to record an album and you download it for free maybe someone'll mind". I think it’s still too early to say “don’t violate copyright law” and leave it at that. The field’s been around for a long, long time but the principles have only been applied to individuals in the last 15 or so years.

The majority of people alive today (including my 20 year old self) would have been alive when it was still only commercial publishers or the most fevered of photocopying librarians who could even attempt to breach copyright law. The law on the area is in no way settled and until the law actually is settled it’s literally against people’s human rights to expect them to follow the strange and unwritten rules that they don’t know yet.

Wait a few years, watch the outcome of a few trials which aren’t immediately called mistrials (especially wait for one which actually takes place in the UK) before you can actually point to “copyright law” as something you can follow or at least not break, at least beyond common sense things like if “someone pays someone else to record an album and you download it for free maybe someone’ll mind”.

]]> By: midknyte http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-425680 midknyte Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425680 Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder and I barked. Sorry. Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder and I barked. Sorry.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423891 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423891 "do not bind the mouths of the kine that tread the grain" “do not bind the mouths of the kine that tread the grain”

]]> By: WeightedCompanionCube http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423389 WeightedCompanionCube Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423389 For years iPod packaging had "Don't Steal Music" on it. Even though Apple has a (at the time) DRM-only music store, they know damn well that isn't where most users get their music. For years iPod packaging had “Don’t Steal Music” on it. Even though Apple has a (at the time) DRM-only music store, they know damn well that isn’t where most users get their music.

]]> By: Robbo http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423392 Robbo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423392 It's an interesting age we live in when the previously arcane concepts of copyright law intrude upon our day to day activities. Do we need to constantly define and redefine copyright law with each and every agreement we enter into? No. Awareness of these laws will not slip into the shadows once more any time soon because they are being driven into the light and - hopefully, eventually, inevitably - redefined into a singular and consistent understanding for everyone. Therefore a simple EULA of "Don't violate copyright law." would become as inviolate a principle of behaviour as "Thou shalt not kill." Of course, we're still working on that one. While I'm here, I was curious if Cory's email EULA is public domain? I'd love to emulate, copy, rip-off what you always tag on to the end of your mails - with my own amendments and acknowledgement, naturally - with my own missives. Cheers. It’s an interesting age we live in when the previously arcane concepts of copyright law intrude upon our day to day activities. Do we need to constantly define and redefine copyright law with each and every agreement we enter into? No. Awareness of these laws will not slip into the shadows once more any time soon because they are being driven into the light and – hopefully, eventually, inevitably – redefined into a singular and consistent understanding for everyone. Therefore a simple EULA of “Don’t violate copyright law.” would become as inviolate a principle of behaviour as “Thou shalt not kill.”

Of course, we’re still working on that one.

While I’m here, I was curious if Cory’s email EULA is public domain? I’d love to emulate, copy, rip-off what you always tag on to the end of your mails – with my own amendments and acknowledgement, naturally – with my own missives.

Cheers.

]]> By: Church http://boingboing.net/2009/02/26/a-fair-eula-for-down.html#comment-423406 Church Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-423406 How about, "Don't violate Jefferson's Copyright Law?" That I could go for. How about, “Don’t violate Jefferson’s Copyright Law?” That I could go for.

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