Comments on: Philip Pullman on the collapse of personal liberty in the UK http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Thu, 23 May 2013 01:55:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: johnnyappleseed http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424465 johnnyappleseed Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424465 England Prevails. England Prevails.

]]> By: RainyRat http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424981 RainyRat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424981 I think Hanlon's razor could apply here: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Having said that, I've grabbed a copy of the article, as it seems to be missing from Google's cache again. Is there such a thing as being BoingBoinged? I think Hanlon’s razor could apply here: “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Having said that, I’ve grabbed a copy of the article, as it seems to be missing from Google’s cache again. Is there such a thing as being BoingBoinged?

]]> By: TheMadLibrarian http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424732 TheMadLibrarian Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424732 Now the Google cache has apparently been rendered gone. Curiouser and curiouser; one wonders why this article was so incendiary it seems to have been expunged. Now the Google cache has apparently been rendered gone. Curiouser and curiouser; one wonders why this article was so incendiary it seems to have been expunged.

]]> By: TheMadLibrarian http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424735 TheMadLibrarian Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424735 Now the cache is back. Maybe it was simply overwhelmed as the original is gone. Now the cache is back. Maybe it was simply overwhelmed as the original is gone.

]]> By: AltHausDweller http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-1015072 AltHausDweller Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1015072 Why are so many links to this article vanished? I am not paranoid, but... Why are so many links to this article vanished?
I am not paranoid, but…

]]> By: Devilstower http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424749 Devilstower Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424749 I sent a request to the Time Online customer support hours ago, but have seen nothing in reply. Thanks, Rainyrat, for digging out the cache page. I sent a request to the Time Online customer support hours ago, but have seen nothing in reply.

Thanks, Rainyrat, for digging out the cache page.

]]> By: sisterp http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425025 sisterp Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425025 I couldn't get the Times page or the Google cache either, but is this the text? : http://www.sott.net/articles/show/177541-Malevolent-voices-that-despise-our-freedoms I couldn’t get the Times page or the Google cache either, but is this the text? :

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/177541-Malevolent-voices-that-despise-our-freedoms

]]> By: tboot http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425293 tboot Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425293 STILL 404'd. Though it can be found elsewhere now: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/177541-Malevolent-voices-that-despise-our-freedoms and http://blog.quebedox.com/2009/02/27/okay-whats-going-on-with-this-article/ STILL 404′d. Though it can be found elsewhere now:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/177541-Malevolent-voices-that-despise-our-freedoms

and

http://blog.quebedox.com/2009/02/27/okay-whats-going-on-with-this-article/

]]> By: arnold78 http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424528 arnold78 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424528 I guess George Mason was right when he said, "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." I guess George Mason was right when he said, “To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425815 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425815 I'm another guy who mailed to them. Around 15:00 UTC today got a reply from their customer service saying: <blockquote>Dear Times Online User, Thank you for your email and for bringing this error to our attention. Our technical team are currently working to rectify this matter as soon as possible. We do apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience. [signature and employee name snipped]</blockquote> I’m another guy who mailed to them. Around 15:00 UTC today got a reply from their customer service saying:

Dear Times Online User, Thank you for your email and for bringing this error to our attention. Our technical team are currently working to rectify this matter as soon as possible. We do apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your patience. [signature and employee name snipped]

]]> By: TroofSeeker http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424536 TroofSeeker Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424536 This is one tough issue. Isn't it the first priority of government to watch over the safety of its citizens? Yet nobody wants the government to "watch over" them literally. Shades of 1984! But maybe it's inevitable in modern society. It might streamline the justice system to have video of everything that goes on in the city, and would probably deter a lot of crime, but it sure feels like our privacy is being invaded. Maybe we're just gonna have to get used to it. Eek. This is one tough issue. Isn’t it the first priority of government to watch over the safety of its citizens? Yet nobody wants the government to “watch over” them literally. Shades of 1984! But maybe it’s inevitable in modern society. It might streamline the justice system to have video of everything that goes on in the city, and would probably deter a lot of crime, but it sure feels like our privacy is being invaded. Maybe we’re just gonna have to get used to it. Eek.

]]> By: imipak http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424564 imipak Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424564 My theory is that the reason the general public (in the most arm-waving of generalisations) don't really give a flying one about such matters is that none of it really impinges on their lives in a noticeable way. Very few Brits feel that they're living in a police state; their daily lives go on in much the same way they always have done. (Hark... the sound of shunting trains, ringing and rumbling, softened almost into melody by the distance...) My theory is that the reason the general public (in the most arm-waving of generalisations) don’t really give a flying one about such matters is that none of it really impinges on their lives in a noticeable way. Very few Brits feel that they’re living in a police state; their daily lives go on in much the same way they always have done. (Hark… the sound of shunting trains, ringing and rumbling, softened almost into melody by the distance…)

]]> By: top_geezer http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425332 top_geezer Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425332 I don't suppose today's Timesonline home page: 'Brown pins his hopes of recovery on Obama' with a photo of the happy couple might of shunted Pullman's piece? I don’t suppose today’s Timesonline home page: ‘Brown pins his hopes of recovery on Obama’ with a photo of the happy couple might of shunted Pullman’s piece?

]]> By: RainyRat http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425081 RainyRat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425081 Yup, that's the one. Yup, that’s the one.

]]> By: rwmj http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424317 rwmj Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424317 I'm left more confused than anything else. Not sure that turgid, confusing prose is going to help the cause. I’m left more confused than anything else. Not sure that turgid, confusing prose is going to help the cause.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425341 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425341 Here as well: http://theskinner.blogspot.com/2009/02/philip-pullman-article-in-full.html Here as well:

http://theskinner.blogspot.com/2009/02/philip-pullman-article-in-full.html

]]> By: BingoTheChimp http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424581 BingoTheChimp Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424581 Can anyone recommend a good, <i>objective</i> primer on the specific issues referenced here? I wants to edumacate myself. Thankee! Can anyone recommend a good, objective primer on the specific issues referenced here? I wants to edumacate myself.

Thankee!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424867 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424867 My complaint to this line of thinking is that it would take like five people to monitor just one person so closely, fifteen for day and night. Suppose I write some inflammatory things on this message board and that tips off the CIA computer. They would have to waste hundreds of man-hours just to figure out that I'm a dead-end. I apologize to the guy who reads my email for being so irrelevant, by the way. My complaint to this line of thinking is that it would take like five people to monitor just one person so closely, fifteen for day and night. Suppose I write some inflammatory things on this message board and that tips off the CIA computer. They would have to waste hundreds of man-hours just to figure out that I’m a dead-end. I apologize to the guy who reads my email for being so irrelevant, by the way.

]]> By: platypism http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424356 platypism Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424356 When non-fiction reads like dystopian sci-fi, I think that gets the point across. Eep. When non-fiction reads like dystopian sci-fi, I think that gets the point across. Eep.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424370 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424370 Absolutely right on. Orwell got it right, he just got the dates wrong. Neal Asher Absolutely right on. Orwell got it right, he just got the dates wrong.

Neal Asher

]]> By: reginald http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424377 reginald Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424377 what are you looking at? what are you looking at?

]]> By: ddodd http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424634 ddodd Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424634 Is it too strange that I'm getting a 404 message when I look for the article on the Times site right now? Is it too strange that I’m getting a 404 message when I look for the article on the Times site right now?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-747459 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-747459 Poster #29. The article is still not online. You should email them again. It seems to me that The Times were persuaded to remove this article by higher powers. Poster #29. The article is still not online. You should email them again. It seems to me that The Times were persuaded to remove this article by higher powers.

]]> By: RainyRat http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424643 RainyRat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424643 #14 - Same here, although it was fine when I skimmed it at work a couple of hours ago. #14 – Same here, although it was fine when I skimmed it at work a couple of hours ago.

]]> By: jaia http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424388 jaia Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424388 Quite reasonably, people don't expect privacy outside or in public spaces. And it's hard to say that cameras interfere with solitude, when the essence of solitude is not interacting with other people. Now, if you're being monitored at home or in, say, a restroom, it's a different story. Quite reasonably, people don’t expect privacy outside or in public spaces. And it’s hard to say that cameras interfere with solitude, when the essence of solitude is not interacting with other people. Now, if you’re being monitored at home or in, say, a restroom, it’s a different story.

]]> By: Severius http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-425159 Severius Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-425159 Still 404'd. Still 404′d.

]]> By: nicol http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424394 nicol Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424394 It struck me this morning, what if this is some kind of knee jerk subconscious reaction from politicians whose lives - more than ever - are permanently under the 24-hour media spotlight and microscope of ever more informed public criticism. As the privacy of those high in public office is reduced to almost nothing, perhaps on some level their attitude is - well if we have to live like this, so must you. If it is acceptable for us (and our families) then so must it be for you. Or rather, ha! See how you like it. Just a thought, certainly not a justification! It struck me this morning, what if this is some kind of knee jerk subconscious reaction from politicians whose lives – more than ever – are permanently under the 24-hour media spotlight and microscope of ever more informed public criticism.

As the privacy of those high in public office is reduced to almost nothing, perhaps on some level their attitude is – well if we have to live like this, so must you. If it is acceptable for us (and our families) then so must it be for you. Or rather, ha! See how you like it.

Just a thought, certainly not a justification!

]]> By: RainyRat http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424650 RainyRat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424650 Google's cache of it is still alive, though - http://74.125.77.132/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en-GB&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesonline.co.uk%2Ftol%2Fcomment%2Fcolumnists%2Fguest_contributors%2Farticle5811412.ece&btnG=Search Google’s cache of it is still alive, though – http://74.125.77.132/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en-GB&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesonline.co.uk%2Ftol%2Fcomment%2Fcolumnists%2Fguest_contributors%2Farticle5811412.ece&btnG=Search

]]> By: mdh http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424422 mdh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424422 I think it's brilliant. I think it’s brilliant.

]]> By: Blue http://boingboing.net/2009/02/27/philip-pullman-on-th-1.html#comment-424423 Blue Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-424423 Nicol, I don't think it's a reaction to media scrutiny so much as what I'd call 'evolutionary opportunism'. Technological developments have created a new body for the politicians to inhabit - longer, more intrusive tentacles; more of them; greater congnitive functionality (pattern-matching databases and the like). The authoritays are growing into that body, flexing their new muscles, exploring their new capabilities, stretching into and exploring the extent of their reach. Morality, ethics, a sense of what is right and good to do and what is good not to do (in a 'liberal democracy' or, y'know, just as human beings doing unto others) are supposed to be the restraining factors, but since when do the sort of people who gravotate toward power, shift and bend to whatever policy is necessary for them to get into power (or repay those who keep them in power) hold to anything, much less principles or an ethical compass? "We want you to feel that being watched is the natural state of things [and that to] not want to be watched [means you] must have something shameful to hide," is spot on. Nicol, I don’t think it’s a reaction to media scrutiny so much as what I’d call ‘evolutionary opportunism’.

Technological developments have created a new body for the politicians to inhabit – longer, more intrusive tentacles; more of them; greater congnitive functionality (pattern-matching databases and the like).

The authoritays are growing into that body, flexing their new muscles, exploring their new capabilities, stretching into and exploring the extent of their reach.

Morality, ethics, a sense of what is right and good to do and what is good not to do (in a ‘liberal democracy’ or, y’know, just as human beings doing unto others) are supposed to be the restraining factors, but since when do the sort of people who gravotate toward power, shift and bend to whatever policy is necessary for them to get into power (or repay those who keep them in power) hold to anything, much less principles or an ethical compass?

“We want you to feel that being watched is the natural state of things [and that to] not want to be watched [means you] must have something shameful to hide,” is spot on.

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