New iPods have DRM on the headphone interface -- UPDATED

Check out this BBG post: Manufacturer confirms chip: iPod headphones now have the Apple Tax; Update: Apple confirms no DRM, authentication, just licensing -- turns out Apple didn´t use DRM on the headphone interface, just a proprietary chip you have to license if you want to claim ¨Made for iPod¨.

Fred von Lohmann from the Electronic Frontier Foundation sez, "The sharp reviewers at iLounge spotted out a misfeature in the new iPod Shuffle that other reviewers overlooked: third party headphones for it apparently will require an Apple 'authentication chip,' something that is already required for various iPod docks. Yet another example of Apple's DRM hypocrisy. Apparently it's OK for Apple to use DRM to lock in consumers and hobble competition, even as it rails against DRM on iTunes music."

Apple Adds Still More DRM to iPod Shuffle

Update 2: We took one apart and found a mysterious chip inside the new Shuffle's headphones. Have no idea if it's DRM or not -- Rob.

Update: We did a quick test in the gadget dungeon: existing inline headphone control adapters for the iPhone and other iPods won't work in the new Shuffle. -- Rob.

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

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arkizzle

Well, thanks for stepping back to say so, but you were just arguing your view. I certainly don’t hold it against you :)

I was a jungle / hiphop producer for many years (and still am to a lesser degree), so I do know where you’re coming from regarding transparency/quality etc. But I’ve also worked in some fairly ghetto setups in my time, and I know that it’s not the only measure. Don’t get me wrong, I’d have given my left arm for a little clarity at times.

I’ve released things that almost make me cry now. But times were tight, and music got made.
Wabsnasm

It’s not really DRM, is it? As in, it’s not a way to manage rights on digital media. It’s more like an apple ‘tax’ chip, similar to what printer manufacturers do to try and restrict the market for compatible cartridges.

One of these days Apple’s customers will realise that they have to may a lot more for their accessories than anyone else, and they’ll either not mind and carry on, or go elsewhere. Apple are betting on the former. We shall see whether they’re right or not in time.
jphilby

Apple is the company that put part of the OS on a chip for decades. The company that used parts you might only get from Apple. The company that started out publishing calls to ROM routines, and years later made you pay developer fees in the thousands of dollars just to find out basic stuff like that.

It’s not DRM, it’s the same proprietary tack Apple’s always taken. Hardly just Apple; the TRS-80 was sold cheap because the peripherals were *outrageously* priced. SO: if you don’t like the game, don’t play.
Anonymous

If I had the choice between an MP3 player that works with Apple headphones or an MP3 player that works with everybody else’s headphones, I think I would go for the latter.
alaniax

I have never owned an iPod shuffle, however, I believe the idea is that it surprises you with a “shuffled” playlist, randomly selected from the tracks on your computer. It’s a fun little gadget that you can take with you on a plane, or on a run, or whatever. It’s not high-end audio equipment.

I think it’s brilliant to move the controls off the device and onto the headphones. In fact, I hope they go one step further and make an iPod shuffle that fits in my ear, without the need for headphones at all. That would be an amazing thing to have with me at the gym.

If they did make it, though, I’m sure all over the internet people would be crying about how you can’t even plug headphones into it, or that it doesn’t connect to your home theatre.

It’s designed for *on-the-go* Get over it.

I don’t think there will ever be a day that you can’t plug your Sennheisers into your imac or phone or pod. In fact, the online apple store is happy to suggest several third-party headphones, speakers, and cables to go along with any other iPod model.
Anonymous

The shuffle remote control has now been reverse engineered; not DRM

http://david.carne.ca/shuffle_hax/shuffle_remote.html
Category

@ALANIAX

The problem isn’t that it has a small form factor, or isn’t high-end – if people want a great high-end MP3 player, they’re not going to buy a shuffle.

The problem is that apple has to “recommend compatible third-party headphones, speakers, and cables”.

As an Audio enthusiast, I already have a lot of cables, headphones, and speakers. Most of my favourite sounding equipment is from the 80′s, and I’m betting none of that will have an apple authentication chip in them.

You shouldn’t need to buy new gear just because you have a new player. It’s ridiculous.

Apple hasn’t had moeny from me since around 2000 – and after how they’ve been acting recently, I will NEVER give them a quid again.
Stanton

Apple has always been known for making the highest quality products and headphones will certainly be included in this. Who uses 3rd party headphones anyway? I hear they’re not even safe for iPods.

Apple earphones are absolutely bloody awful.

I have 2 broken ipods that lasted little over their warranty period. Highest quality, don’t be daft. I have a walkman from the mid 80s that still works, it’s not impossible to make portable music devices that last.

Everyone I know uses 3rd party headphones because the apple ones are utter waste.

Headphones not safe for ipods? Eh? That’s like saying 3rd party spoons aren’t safe to eat your Pret a manger soup with so you’d best stick with the complementary plastic one.
Axx

@ 13 Wabsnasm, et. al.

No, it’s not DRM, but is a economically similar subject. The issue here is what in the industry is called ‘lock-in’.

http://thatsprettylame.blogspot.com/2008/05/drm-new-coke-and-iphone-bruce-schneier.html

Apple expects you to invest in their fine portable music products, then having “locked you in” to buying their headphones, increase their profit by selling you two pieces of hardware instead of one. Their assumption is that consumers will not be informed enough, or simply will not care enough, to side step this issue. Of course, Apple would not be doing this if market analysis hadn’t already proved these assumptions to be correct. =/
Palilay

@purephase, @arkizzle :

Actually I -prefer- Round aspect earbuds. I’ve never met a pair of “moulded” earbuds that didn’t hurt the bejeezus out of my ears (not the sound, just the shape).

#60 @stephen, you’re obviously new here. Welcome.
Joel Johnson

Okay, Apple are often dicks. No argument from me on the general principle. Plus, I think the new Shuffle is dumb.

But I think iLounge’s claim that there is an “authentication chip” in the compatible headphones might be off. There are no buttons on the Shuffle, so there needs to be a signal sent from the button on the headphones down to the player, just like currently works on the iPhone. I don’t know that there is “authentication”, though, beyond a set of compatible electrical pulses that could be cloned by anyone.

If there *is* a chip then I’m all for giving the most extended middle finger we can find, but I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. (Sad that I wouldn’t put it past them, of course.)
reglobb

@paulr: to some degree, yes! I’m not saying its not comfy, though!
kbeartx

IMO, this is a stupid and pointless discussion. The article clearly states, ‘we’re not electrical engineers and we don’t know if the chip is some form of DRM’.

This entire ‘issue’ is based on somebody’s SPECULATION about what the chip is for!!!!! There must be dozens, if not hundreds, of legitimate possible functions for a chip in there.

Publish another article when you have some actual information and knowledge.
Palilay

Sennheiser headphones are overrated. So-called “Audiophiles” claim they’re better, because they’re generally bamboozled with a punchier bass response – something real audio professionals know is a false metric of quality.

The standard Apple ear-bud headphones that come with the iPod touch are FINE by any subjective standards.

The no-button nature of the latest shuffle, and the decision to put the controls on the headphones lead any rational thinking individual to understand just why Apple has put DRM on them – quality control. There are a number of websites out there that actively hate on Apple “mishaps” (most of which are funded by competitors) that generally involve Apple products that are using unlicensed or substandard accessories. Batteries is an obvious example.

If you don’t like it, buy a different MP3 player. Apple is free to carry on its business however it likes, just as you’re free to buy competing products!
error404

I do not buy cars from Col Saunders, I do not get medical help from Microsoft, I do not call for the ice cream van when my house is on fire.

I do not buy audio equipment from a computer company.

I say that because I did actually break this simple credo and bought an ipod.

It was rubbish.

The thing stores data, in a nifty little package and has a zippy little interface…but the sound quality was very poor.

Even with better earphones it was thin.

Now very happy with my SONY Walkman 16gb plays most formats and some video and takes any headphones you plug in.

Sony are no saints in this LOCK IN nonsense but it seems they have learned a few lessons, while Apple seem to have an openly scornful attitude to their customers.
Agies

@40 My Creative Zen Vision M records FM radio just fine. As far as I know there’s no DMCA issue with recording off the air as there’s no copy protection to circumvent.
PaulR

nemik @ 3

Apple has always been known for making the highest quality products and headphones will certainly be included in this. Who uses 3rd party headphones anyway? I hear they’re not even safe for iPods.

These guys only give iPod buds a B+ @ $29.
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-earphones-with-remote-and-mic/

Buds with same-as or better ratings:

Ten bucks cheaper:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/griffin-technology-tunebuds-earbuds-and-lanyard-for-ipod-shuffle-ipod/ (A-)
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sennheiser-mx500-headphones/ (A+)

One cent cheaper or same price:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ezgear-ezears-sx50-earphones-ipod/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sennheiser-pmx60-headphones/

$45:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sennheiser-omx70-sport-stereo-clip-on-earphones/

$50:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sony-fontopia-mdr-ex70lp-earphones-ipod/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sony-mdr-ex75-stereo-headphones/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/v-moda-remix-m-class-earphones/

$60:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/h2o-audio-surge-waterproof-headphones/ (Waterproof!)
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sony-mdr-ex81-earphones-ipod/

$66:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/sony-mdr-e888lp-fontopia-earphone-ipod/

99$:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/jays-d-jays-earphones/

$109:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/westone-um1-single-driver-true-fit-earphones/

$149:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/etymotic-hf5-high-fidelity-earphones/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/etymotic-er-6i-isolator-earphones-ipod/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ultimate-ears-superfi-4vi-sound-isolating-headset-for-iphone/

$179:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/etymotic-research-hf2-noise-isolating-headset-earphones/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/jays-q-jays-earphones/

$199:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ultimate-ears-superfi-5-eb-ipod/

$249:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ultimate-ears-superfi-5-pro-ipod/

$299:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/etymotic-research-er-4s-earphones-ipod/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/westone-um2-dual-driver-true-fit-earphones/

$400:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ultimate-ears-triplefi-10-pro-earphones/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/westone-westone-3-three-way-speaker-earphones/

Yikes!!:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/shure-e500pth-sound-isolating-earphones/
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ultimate-ears-ue5c-custom-earphones-ipod/

I feel faint:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/ultimate-ears-ue-10-pro-earphones-ipod/

The Shuffle is also the cheapest MP3 player on the market. Apple sells them at such low margins, what’s wrong with having a few giant headphone companies pay a little more to have it be compatible with the iPod?

Er…:
I’d bet, um, a dollar, that I can find a cheaper MP3 player in a dollar store.

But let me recommend this (I’ve had one for about a year):
http://www.sansa.com/players/sansa_clip

Compare here:
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2008/02/sandisk-sansa-clip-vs-ipod-shuffle.php
It comes with a clip! Great audio.
Scary_UK

@42 – there was a software upgrade for some Zens which disabled the radio record function. Creative did a U-turn on it in the end though.

The European software has volume limiting in the software so when the US software disabled radio record it was a bit of a dilema
Stephen

I posted a comment making fun of Boing Boing by jumping to conclusions about the nefarious nature of the ad tracking script in their pages, by way of comparison to this article. Boing Boing blocked the post.
arkizzle

Palilay,

You are just wrong. Sorry.

I have had 2 ipods. One with the first type of earbuds and more recently, the new type. On both occasions I have gone straight to HMV and bought Â£6.99 Sony earbuds to replace the thinner, tinny Apple ‘buds. I’m not being swayed be price or looks, the Sony ‘buds look pretty naff.. but they are better, so I use them.

There is absolutly no question: earbuds are NOT all equal. You are trying to link the variable quality of cheap components to the mysticism of high-end audiophile nonsense. But there is far greater differences in quality amongst the low to mid ends, than in the high end of audio equipment.

It sounds like you are arguing a defensive point, rather than a technical one. I like Apple, a lot, but they don’t make competitive earbuds. Get over it.

And saying anything but lossless flacs will sound the same through any earbud is just silly. Really.
Purly

Apple’s headphones are pretty awful. If they pull this with the iphone I will be pissed.
cookiemonsta17

Well,
now I’m sure glad that I talked my boyfriend out of buying one of these. :)
Even if the random chip isn’t DRM…I’m still cautious about it.
cookiemonsta17

Well,
now I’m sure glad that I talked my boyfriend out of buying one of these. :)
Even if the random chip isn’t DRM…I’m still cautious about it.
lumpi

It would be about time for a _true_ competitor for Apple/iPod hardware to show up. I’m not talking about technical competition, I’m talking about design.

The moment somebody is able to develop an interface equally elegant to that of Apple devices, I wouldn’t buy a single product from Apple any more.
dainel

Let me just summarize. Apple is evil. People who buy Apple products are fools because they’re feeding the devil. Stop feeding the troll already …
purephase

@PALILAY

Apple standard headphones fall out of my ears at walking pace, let alone running – they are therefore useless to me (and a large minority of people who also have the same problem).

In fact their simple round aspect means that the speaker surface very rarely fits snugly in anyone’s ears, and therefore I can hear the music of every idiot who stands next to me using them. This annoys me. In loud environments (tube trains etc) these same idiots need to turn up the volume massively do to the ambient noise. This further annoys me, and also means they risk serious irreparable damage to their hearing.

In summary, standard ear-buds are in no way acceptable – rather they are a social menace, and in some cases a health hazard.
pajp

Am I the only one assuming that #3 was being sarcastic?
Anonymous

There is no DRM chip. These use the exact same interface that has already been present in the Nano, the 2nd gen Touch, the iPhone (minus volume control) and even the MacBook for months now.

The plug has four contact areas on it, instead of the usual three. These are for Left channel, Right channel, Play/Pause and Ground. When you click the buttons on the headphones, it simply shorts one of the appropriate contact areas with ground, which the iPod can detect.

It’s actually a beautifully simple idea, and I don’t know why someone didn’t think of it years ago.

My friend and I have already ordered adapters in the past months from eBay that let you use any headphones, adding the clicking and microphone. These adapters are incredibly cheap, and you can see how simple things are when you take them apart.

iLounge is wrong, they explained the situation incorrectly
zuzu

Let me just summarize. Apple is evil. People who buy Apple products are fools because they’re feeding the devil. Stop feeding the troll already

As opposed to, say, Sony?

Perspective: you may need some.
Rindan

Apple has always been a vile renting seeking, DRM wielding, heavy handed company. The only thing that ever made Microsoft more of the devil than Apple was that Apple spent too much quality time trying to castrate itself for it ever to be big enough to be a worry. Now Apple is getting getting bigger, eating up the market, and their thug like behavior is suddenly getting noticed.

I just call it one more reason to not shell out cash to Apple. Don’t get me wrong, the shiny white plastic and the effective marketing that will transform me into an uncool nerd into a hip hipster are really tempting… but I think I’ll suffer on without.
Anonymous

Here’s an idea:

Dont Buy One.

Apple is fairly responsive to market pressures internally, and nothing drives home the idea that DRM asshattery is bad for business like people Not Spending Money On It.

Apple is the new Sony. They’re making the same mistakes as Sony did in the early 2000s, which can best be summarized as “Creating Market Opportunity” for competition. This is sad, because they used to compete against no-one except themselves. They used to design products that stood on their own merits. Now they’re designing for lock-in across the board. By 2014 almost every IO path on your computer will be encrypted.

The smart industrial and software design of the early MacOSX bootstrap days is gone. They’ve won, and now they’re gonna squeeze us still something better comes along. Fortunately for use, it will happen in time.

Send a message loud and clear: Boycott rent-collecting DRM, anti-consumer industrial design.

Buy something else and make this one a flop.
The Lizardman

@22 It has already happened you just haven’t been paying attention, re-read these threads and you will find superior products listed with equal or better interfaces to the shuffle
jennybean42

Because of some weird birth deformity, which i never realized until the ipod came out, earbuds don’t fit in my ears. Well, they fit fine in one, but not in the other.
Sooo. I *ALWAYS* have to buy other another pair of headphones.
This isn’t working for me.
userw014

Just another opportunity for a MP3/whatever player manufacturer to create a new device. Provided that they can solve the problem of managing the device in a practical way (ala iTunes.)

Alas, I doubt that’s going to happen, at least in a way that I’d like. I have had problems with ear-buds (not Apple’s) hurting my ears, so I use ear-clips. Also, I prefer devices that are even more OS agnostic than an iPod (Linux, FreeBSD as well as OS/X and Win/xxx) – and Microsoft isn’t going to do that.

A few years ago, I was looking for an MP3 player that was OS agnostic, was able to act as a memo/audio recorder, was a (FM) radio receiver, and could act as a USB drive. The best device I found at the time was Cowon/iAudio “Color Sound” device and these days I’m happy to just listen to Public Radio stations on the FM radio. If it ever fails, I don’t know what I’d replace it with. I prefer the radio because it offers me the chance of real surprise – hearing or learning something I’d never have otherwise considered. Of course, my old MP3 player is limited in how much music it can store – it’s not as if I can load so much stuff on it as to be surprised by something I’ve forgotten or simply loaded because it was on some feed. And, of course, my NPR listening is limited to the times when they broadcast the programs.

On the other hand, I’m not tempted to fritter away my time seeking out and managing my media collection. Of course, if I had one of the modern players with months of audio time on it, I wouldn’t be frittering away time managing it either.
Palilay

@45 Arkizzle :

I wasn’t saying they are all equal, I was saying they are all equally as crap, as far as I’m concerned. I repeat myself, but – the sheer physics of producing good sound out of “speakers” of earbud size is not a limitation any “high end” earbuds can overcome magically somehow by spending another 40$.

Furthermore with regards to singling out high end headphones (NOT) earbuds, there are definitely plenty which are not “audiophile nonsense”. I don’t count most Sennheisers (at least the ones pitched at a consumer market) as in that class.

And again, I hate to correct you but the point I was making about lossless FLAC was not that everything else sounds the same, but it was a technical point : If you’re arguing that it’s worth spending more money for quality when listening to -compressed- audio formats (unless you’re using FLAC or other lossless formats) rather than raw PCM audio, then you don’t know what you’re talking about.

There is a simple metric to quality headphones : Size, Impedance, build/component quality. That’s it. It’s not rocket science. There are indeed some earbuds which are better than others. The point I was trying to make is that the difference is so negligible (unless you’re talking about those crap ass made in china ones you find at a dollar store) that most people by any subjective standards, usually “imagine” the difference. Most often this is because “quality” earbuds artificially boost the bottom and top end frequency response so stuff sounds “punchier” and “brighter”. As any audio engineer will tell you, that does not equal “better”, in fact it’s worse, because it means you’re not listening to the music as the musician intended.

In my experience the one thing I’ll say in the iPod earbuds’ favor is they sound fairly neutral, at least compared to other earbuds on the market which usually sound muddy as hell (too much bottom end/low-mid).

Please don’t misunderstand my argument as championing the iPod earbuds as some kind of gold standard of quality – that’s not my intent. I just get sick of this bandwagon people have jumped onto screaming how crappy Apple’s headphones are, which by any objective analysis is absolute rubbish. Just because you can buy -slightly- better ones, does not make them “Crap”. Also, most of these people (as you’ve demonstrated yourself) are not basing their comparisons on technical specifications, but merely on subjective “these Sony ones sound WAY better, much more treble” type comparisons.

I know it’s fun to jump on the “bash Apple” bandwagon – just like the “Windows Sucks!” one, but it irritates me when people base these things on emotion and following the crowd, rather than using reason and facts.
Agies

@7 Microsoft released a Hotfix for that. Your headset is far from worthless.
Joel Johnson

And I want to want to amend my comment implying that iLounge doesn’t know what they’re talking about. They’re smart guys who do good work. I was too much in “internet skeptic” mode; I’m reaching out to my contacts to verify their story as well, instead of just sitting here scratching my belly and wondering aloud.
help i cant comfirm my username themelonbread

WOW… This is even more horrible than RCA’s engineers making the 45 as incompatible with anyone else’s players as possible (although not as easily fixable… yet?)
jerwin

@Nemik

The Shuffle is also the cheapest MP3 player on the market. Apple sells them at such low margins, what’s wrong with having a few giant headphone companies pay a little more to have it be compatible with the iPod?

Grado, which makes my headphones, is far from “giant.” Probably less than 100 employees.
nemik

@.*

yhbt
arkizzle

PurePhase, that’s right, and I forgot all about it! I don’t understand why they designed them round, like that.

The ones I go for have a teardrop profile, fitting my ear much better.
Doomstalk

#19) Really? I find that iPod earbuds sound tinny even compared to, say, a cheap $20 pair of Sony wraparound headphones. When you compare them to something like a pair of Shure SE310 earbuds, it’s no contest. The low-end is definitely punchier, but the high and mid-range is more detailed as well. I was astounded with the first pair of high-end earbuds I bought– all of the sudden I was noticing things I’d never heard before in music I’ve been listening to for years. Apple’s earbuds may be fine for what they are, a cheap pair of pack-ins, but taking away our ability to choose our own gear is bullshit pure and simple.
arkizzle

Palilay

OK. But my Â£6.99 Sony ‘buds do sound better. Which is why I got them. Twice.

The fact is (whether you and your engineer friend like it or not) after looking at the back of the box to see if the frequency response charts all match up, people buy headphones/earbuds for the subjective experience (and looks, probably). That is not to say they buy snakeoil, just that some people like the differences in sound different ‘phones have. Colour is important in sound, hence some people prefering grungy 45s to perfect digital CDs, or seventies ‘warm’ equipment to nineties ‘clean’ stuff. And in fact, most people have never heard their songs neutrally, the way the artist/engineer intended it.

If my mp3 player sounds thinner than I’m used to (or would prefer) I will probably compensate with ‘phones that make it sound better (to me). Nothing wrong with that. People don’t all have the same taste in equalisation, and neither you, nor the artist who made the music can tell people how to listen to their tunes. That’s why EQ exists in consumer audio products.

You seem to think that there is some absolute, non-subjective measure for audio reproduction (like the numbers tell you everything), but if you have ever been in the market for flat-response monitors you will likely have been told by every pro-audio mag and every engineer worth their salt, that even though most high-end monitors claim a pretty flat-response there is still nobody who will say “this is the monitor, buy it”, they might give suggestions of two or three brands but they all say, “go listen to them and buy the one you like”.

And if I listen to a 320kbps mp3 through shitty headphones, it will sound less good than through decent headphones. NO question.

You seem to think everyone else is a mindless, emotional consumer who can’t grasp simple technical distinctions, but you’re wrong (for a lot of the people at least). Some people just don’t care, or care differently. People are variously tuned to things they care about. Some people like super-true audio reproduction, some like super-bassy Sennheiser headphones, some people like any brand so long as they are blue with butterflies on..

Also: I have never bashed Apple in my life. I’ve been using their products, and paying them good money, for 15 years. I’ve occasionally pointed out things they could do better. The day I got my first iPod, before I knew anyone else with one, I said “wow, these earphones are crap”. No bandwagon’ing here.
zuzu

I tried charging an iPhone in a Belkin Mini-Surge the other day, and it wouldn’t stop vibrating — unlike when plugged into an official Apple iPhone AC/DC adapter or plugged into a MacBook.

This “authentication” (i.e. trusted computing) stuff is lunacy.

And here I was already getting worked up over what could possibly be honestly patentable about whatever signals get sent from the headphones to the Shuffle.

Before the DMCA, all this could be legally reverse-engineered, AFAIK.
The Lizardman

I think the phrase many people are looking for would be: I (we) told you so
GoldMatenes

How about this:

Tell Apple to go screw themselves.
Stop buying this shiny white overpriced minimalist DRM-filled blandtech.
zuzu

A few years ago, I was looking for an MP3 player that was OS agnostic, was able to act as a memo/audio recorder, was a (FM) radio receiver, and could act as a USB drive. The best device I found at the time was Cowon/iAudio “Color Sound” device and these days I’m happy to just listen to Public Radio stations on the FM radio. If it ever fails, I don’t know what I’d replace it with.

How about a mobile phone?

Despite me just a few posts ago trashing on Sony for their suicidal tendencies towards ultra-proprietary devices and formats, the Sony Ericsson c905 does everything you want, and it also happens to be a mobile phone and an 8 megapixel camera too.

(Yes, it includes an FM tuner and uses the included earbud headphones as the antenna.)

While the port on the phone itself is proprietary, the phone includes an adapter cable to USB, which mounts the internal microSD card as a normal USB Mass Storage device. So you can just copy your MP3 songs and MPEG-4 videos onto it as regular files.
Palilay

@doomstalk : ANY ‘earbud’ headphones are going to sound shittier than “wraparound” or other larger headphones. There’s the issue of physics at hand – “earbud” headphones by the very nature of their small size are going to be inferior. Some brands will offer better frequency response/higher impedance, but there’s no getting around the fact that an 1/2 inch headphone will be worse at producing a 60hz sound than, for example, a partially open pair of AKG headphones at 4 inch diameter. So your contention that “high end” earbuds sound “Better” is honorable, but more likely in your imagination, spawned by your subconscious desire to justify the obscene amounts of money you spent for them.

Bottom line is, ANY “earbuds” are an inferior listening experience. Furthermore, the argument is fairly academic, unless the audio you are listening to on your iPod is encoded as FLAC lossless audio (something less than 2% of the population actually do).

The bottom line is, people who claim they can hear a difference between an Apple / 40$ pair of earbuds, and a Sennheiser or other / 120$ pair of earbuds are mostly full of shit.

And, I repeat myself, but – if it’s not good enough for you – DON’T BUY AN APPLE MP3 PLAYER! :P
PaulR

reglobb @ 38″, March 14, 2009 9:39 AM

The badly made bed, is it your MacBook? :-b

“Huffle”, as far as a GIS can tell, sure is a popular name for cats.

I have a Sansa Clip. And, as I forgot to point out, DOES have a FM tuner. I’ll clip it to my lapel and forget that it’s there…
As they say around here: it’s ‘beau, bon, pas cher’.
morcheeba

I think we need some better evidence before we start claiming DRM. A series of beeps? That could be anything. A picture of the authentication chip, or a monitoring of the signal line, or something to prove that there is 2-way communications!

Here’s ifixit’s picture of the insides…
http://s2.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/kFbNaWbE3NBPWbew.large
… but they didn’t get the back of the circuit board.

Even if there was a chip in there, it doesn’t have to be doing authentication.

Also, #24=winner
Telecustard

For Christmas my girlfriend got a Sony video Mp3 player (sorry, don’t know which model) and I have to say, it was quite a pleasant surprise. The supplied headphones are really good, but you can plug whatever you like into it. Also surprising is that you no longer need special software to load content onto it. When you plug it in, your computer sees it as another hard drive and you just put the appropriate content into the correct folder. Easy! No iTunes, no subscriptions, no format conversions.

Sony may have sinned in the past, but the new stuff they have coming out is really worth looking at as an alternative to Apple.
nemik

Apple has always been known for making the highest quality products and headphones will certainly be included in this. Who uses 3rd party headphones anyway? I hear they’re not even safe for iPods.

The Shuffle is also the cheapest MP3 player on the market. Apple sells them at such low margins, what’s wrong with having a few giant headphone companies pay a little more to have it be compatible with the iPod?

use your heads.
reglobb

@paulr links to a comparison article between the sansa clip and the ipod shuffle which contains a terrific typo, “huffle” which could point to a great little neologism pertaining to online discussions about apple’s mp3-playing products…

To me it seems there’s no doubt that this is a Stupid Idea, and it seems typical of the trend away from intercompatability. I don’t like how this is going.

(I do however come from the position of slightly hypocritical contradiction, typing this as i am into a macbook with a sansa clip sticking out of it, but i guess that’s the thing with badly made beds – you still have to lie in ‘em)
bcsizemo

@Nemik

What…???

While the Apple supplied headphones maybe fine, there are certainly better quality ones on the market…Sennheiser perhaps?

But to my point. Think of the lovely mind control you could implement with that setup. You already are forcing the use of a special chip inline between the device and speakers. You could alter or inject anything you want into the audio stream. Subliminal messaging anyone?
zuzu

The Shuffle is also the cheapest MP3 player on the market. Apple sells them at such low margins, what’s wrong with having a few giant headphone companies pay a little more to have it be compatible with the iPod?

The ends never justify the means.

Apple is rent-seeking, rather than profit-seeking, via patent law, by relying on a technology which creates no benefit other than incompatibility.

p.s. I’d love for any other manufacturer to make a MagSafe car adapter (i.e. cigarette lighter 13.8vDC) that actually recharges the battery in my MacBook Pro.

Apple’s “airline” adapter (which their documentation says doesn’t work in cars, but actually does) will only power the laptop, not charge the battery.
XerxesQados

This is quite literally Digital Right Manufacturing.
XerxesQados

This is quite literally Digital Rights Manufacturing.
zuzu

Despite me just a few posts ago trashing on Sony for their suicidal tendencies towards ultra-proprietary devices and formats, the Sony Ericsson c905 …While the port on the phone itself is proprietary, the phone includes an adapter cable to USB, which mounts the internal microSD card…

Correction: Sony c905 uses their proprietary M2 memory card, which is exactly the same thing as microSD, except it’s Sony’s incompatible version for Sony electronics only.
Palilay

@Arkizzle : I rest my case. The above argument basically states “Quality is unimportant, listening experience is”.

people buy headphones/earbuds for the subjective experience (and looks, probably)

This is NOT ‘quality’!

Colour IS important in sound, but it’s as disrespectful to a mastering engineer when somebody smooshes on a pile of mud in the low mids, as it is to a master chef in molecular gastronomy when someone pours ketchup all over their creation. The true measure of taste in a listener is whether they can appreciate the sonic pallette that the artist has presented them – not pile on a bunch of salt and pepper to their liking. I’m not saying they shouldn’t or can’t, I just think it’s wrong to equate that with an appreciation of quality, which is a wholly more objective measure when dealing with actual equipment. Indeed – my main gripe was with equating listening experience with quality.

As you pointed out with your example with transparent reference monitors (I have 3 sets, by the way, ranging in price between 700 and 5000 dollars), “this sounds good” is not the same as “This is good quality”. A good mastering engineer can make a 2$ speaker in an alarm clock sound good, if they know that’s what they’re mastering for. In the case of music though, they must assume there is a vast difference in “listening experience” across different quality equipment. So in the end, they master for a fairly transparent and even sound. Ergo : the more transparent your gear, the closer the “listening experience” will be to what the artists intended.

I’m flogging a dead horse here, but the iPod earbuds are perfectly acceptable quality. The listening experience, as you suggest, might not be what you’re after, but I take issue with the suggestion people’s taste for equalisation should have some bearing on the product they buy. Yes, it’s true that different products have different EQ curves, but the vast majority of stuff peddled to “audiophiles” (read : people with too much money), equate artificial enhancement of bass or treble with higher quality. A decent product will have it’s own EQ characteristics based on construction and materials, but there’s a glut of products out there claiming to be better that merely actually ADD colour to the sound un-necessarily to compensate for their high price. A good quality product should attempt to be as transparent as possible – -then- give the user controls to tweak it to their preference. Being forced to listen to your music with an artificial bump at the 200 – 350hz range is just as offensive as being forced to buy headphones with DRM built in, to me.

“You seem to think everyone else is a mindless, emotional consumer who can’t grasp simple technical distinctions, but you’re wrong”

For the most part, you’re right – why else would people pay up to 60$ for HDMI cables? As you point out though, it’s really irrelevant if they are happy with the listening experience they get from the product they buy. The reason why I’ve got a bee in my bonnet about it is because based on those subjective distinctions people are arguing the iPod earbuds are “poor quality”, which simply is not true. With regards to the iBuds – to say “I don’t like those earbuds” is perfectly fine. To say “They are of poor quality” is displaying ones ignorance of what actually represents quality in a pair of headphones or speakers.

Anyway. Don’t wanna go around in circles here. I agree to disagree. :P
manicbassman

I’m waiting for the Tommy moment when the faithful finally realise there’s nothing special about Apple products… especially when Apple start expecting the customers to buy new addons for every generation…

the bit where they start singing “We’re not gonna take it” when they learn Tommy’s cure involves playing pinball wearing a blindfold, earplugs and sticking a cork in their mouths…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(rock_opera)

“We’re Not Gonna Take It” – Tommy demands that his followers play pinball and blind, deafen and mute themselves in order to truly reach their spiritual height, but the heavy-handedness of his cult and the exploitation of its followers by his family and associates cause his followers to revolt against him.
Spikeles

I DO have Sennheiser earphones, and they are not even in the same league at the default iPod headphones(ie, they are better, way way way better).

Secondly, this is just plain stupid. I sometimes plug my iPod into stereo systems, eg, car, friends entertainment system, my own home stereo system. to listen to music, and this stupid chip would make that annoying as heck, it would play, but with no way to control the track or volume.

Also, linked article is funny.
“If it were Microsoft demanding that computer peripherals all include Microsoft “authentication chips” in order to work with Windows”, I’d think reviewers would be screaming about it.”

They did, when Vista came out, a whole bunch of USB headsets stopped working because they didn’t conform to the DRM in Vista. My perfectly good Logitech headset became useless because of this.
MayorMike

Hmmm. Sounds like another 1984 advertisement is in order.
Spikeles

(oops, i meant the Sennheiser earphones were better, not the ipod ones)
adonai

@ Nemik

Apple has always been known for making the highest quality products and headphones will certainly be included in this.

Say what? I don’t know anyone with an iPod who uses the supplied headphones, as they’re usually on par with any cheap earbuds – ie not very good at all. Apple even acknowledge this indirectly by selling high end earbuds seperately.

And cheapest mp3 player on the market? If you find that, then I’m glad I don’t live anywhere near you, too rich for my blood :)
arkizzle

1) I never said quality didn’t matter, I carefully said “after looking at the back of the box to see if the frequency response charts all match up”, eg. all things being equal (which they mostly are, within a price range), people then choose based on what they sound like. I probably shouldn’t have used the phrase ‘subjective experience’, because it sounds like I mean whatever-it-is-is-cool-so-long-as-someone-likes-it. Really I meant the qualities of the device which the numbers on the box don’t describe.

2) Most people don’t own transparent listening devices, in any setting. So, for the most part, nobody ‘respects’ the engineers art – because they can’t afford to (or don’t care enough to buy into that level of interest).
- Your earbuds don’t have a sub woofer attachment? Disrespect!
- You’re walking around a shop listening to music on the PA, instead of sitting in front of the speakers – set in a 60Â°, equilateral triangle, with the tweeter around eye level? Disrespect!

3) I wasn’t ever talking about high-priced solutions or defending audiophile-level hokum. I would never (apart from monitors to actually make music on) spend above mid-level consumer prices.
I was specifically saying, Apple’s Â£19 earbuds compare unfavourably to Sony’s Â£6.99 ones.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up my end, I’m happy to agree-to-disagree.
sirspocksalot

Well, look…the answer is simple: don’t buy the product. I can’t imagine any clearer message could be sent to Cupertino in any other fashion.

Me? I like it. I think it’s tiny and well clever and darned near perfect. I won’t be buying one though because I know as soon as I do they’ll unveil an 8gb model. :)
Palilay

@ark : fair.

I am re-reading the thread, and realise yet again I fall into the “anal sound engineer” cliche. What can I say, it’s my job :P
faceword

I would like to clarify a bit of history here. Steve Jobs released his famous letter which lamented the fact that the music labels wouldn’t allow Apple to sell music DRM-free, only after the news was out (in industry circles) that Amazon was about to launch an MP3 (i.e. DRM-free) music store that included the major music labels. If Jobs had wanted to sell DRM-free music before then, he could have done so. At that point in history Apple had the market power to dictate terms to even the big four labels.

Indeed, the independent labels were already selling music sans DRM through various outlets at the time. Apple sold DRM’ed music because it increased the switching costs for consumers and perpetuated Apple’s near monopoly on digital music and digital music players, not because Apple was still under pressure from the labels to do so. His letter was a cynical publicity stunt designed to take credit for the big four labels’ (belated) move away from DRM and nothing more.

The use of DRM in headphones is more of the same anti-competitive action by Apple.
adralien

Don’t know about calling it DRM yet, but what’s really happening here is bad design…

Likely what they are doing is sending a series of pulses for each action on the remote, but they may be preceding those pulses with a “code”. I doubt it’s very complicated, but what it is is a giant F-U to industry standards and openness.

Likely they have one wire + GND running to a small micro and the switches… the micro probably gets its power from that line, as well as communicates over it (running a small duty cycle of comms to keep power up).

There’s a chance they designed an ASIC do do this, that effectively becomes “DRM” without actual DRM in the sense of permissions etc.

Either way, if they’ve done this without releasing specs, it’s effective DRM until the nerds get in there and hack it. I’d anticipate about 2 hours of work once you have the hardware.
Scary_UK

#28 – most players from Creative have all those features, you can record from the radio too (well you can in europe, I believe it’s been disabled by the DMCA in the US)

Creative were the ones that came up with the menu navigation system that Apple uses