Comments on: The New Yorker on the underground world of “neuroenhancing” drugs. http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 17:51:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471553 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471553 #38- this is the point I was trying to make #37- I am not studying Physics with the sole purpose of achieving a work life balance, or because I think it will make me a lot of money, I'm studying Physics because I think it's a really fascinating subject and I really genuinely enjoy doing research. That being said, I don't think it's impossible to have a work/life balance when studying the "hard" sciences, and your attitude is one that's driving many people (especially women) away from the field. My issue with these drugs, is that when you start to create an environment where the only way to stay ahead (and have some semblance of a life at the same time) is to use them, then it's unfair to the people who 1. Don't have access to them (although other comments have revealed that it's a lot easier than I thought to get them...) 2. Need them to function at a "normal" level, and 3. Are not willing to take them for whatever reason (moral, legal, health issues, whatever). #38- this is the point I was trying to make

#37- I am not studying Physics with the sole purpose of achieving a work life balance, or because I think it will make me a lot of money, I’m studying Physics because I think it’s a really fascinating subject and I really genuinely enjoy doing research.

That being said, I don’t think it’s impossible to have a work/life balance when studying the “hard” sciences, and your attitude is one that’s driving many people (especially women) away from the field.

My issue with these drugs, is that when you start to create an environment where the only way to stay ahead (and have some semblance of a life at the same time) is to use them, then it’s unfair to the people who 1. Don’t have access to them (although other comments have revealed that it’s a lot easier than I thought to get them…) 2. Need them to function at a “normal” level, and 3. Are not willing to take them for whatever reason (moral, legal, health issues, whatever).

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-472069 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-472069 #41 I shouldn't have even mentioned Physics, I was using it as an example for a stressful environment where people would be tempted to pop pills to stay on top, and not really where this stuff occurs (see article). I don't think that the Stroop effect would be invalid if Stroop was high when he came up with it. That's just stupid. I do think it's a problem that a lot of people here seem to think the only thing that matters in science is producing results. By this logic we should just prescribe all scientists these drugs and lock them in their labs until they produce these results that are so vital to mankind's survival. If you discourage people from studying (and continuing in) science with these attitudes, then you won't have any people left to produce the results that are so important! That's a totally different discussion however. As I mentioned, I went to a liberal arts school, and the majority of the people I observed using adderall etc. were rich white guys using it to stay up all night/stay focused to make up for their constant partying/getting high/goofing off. As the article mentions: "According to McCabe’s research team, white male undergraduates at highly competitive schools—especially in the Northeast—are the most frequent collegiate users of neuroenhancers. Users are also more likely to belong to a fraternity or a sorority, and to have a G.P.A. of 3.0 or lower... In other words, they are decent students at schools where, to be a great student, you have to give up a lot more partying than they’re willing to give up" Most of the time, these people aren't going to be the ones discovering evolution or making great advances in their field because they're undergraduate students. Mediocre ones at best. I just don't think it's fair that these students can go out partying, then use drugs to bring themselves up to the same level as people who work their butts off to get the same grades (forcing them to work twice as hard to do even better). If you're not willing to buckle down and do the work (and give up a few things in the process, like a night or two of partying) then you should be doing something else. Apparently I am a minority in this opinion, but it's just the way I feel. Someone above mentioned that my feelings must mean that I think drinking coffee should be considered "cheating" as well, or an unfair advantage. Coffee is cheap, legal, available to everyone, and has been determined safe for consumption without a prescription with few or no serious side effects. If a similar adderall alternative was available then sure, I'd be all for it. The fact that drugs enhance performance does not bother me as much as the fact that they're illegal, potentially dangerous, and not freely and equally available to everyone. #41 I shouldn’t have even mentioned Physics, I was using it as an example for a stressful environment where people would be tempted to pop pills to stay on top, and not really where this stuff occurs (see article).

I don’t think that the Stroop effect would be invalid if Stroop was high when he came up with it. That’s just stupid. I do think it’s a problem that a lot of people here seem to think the only thing that matters in science is producing results. By this logic we should just prescribe all scientists these drugs and lock them in their labs until they produce these results that are so vital to mankind’s survival.

If you discourage people from studying (and continuing in) science with these attitudes, then you won’t have any people left to produce the results that are so important! That’s a totally different discussion however.

As I mentioned, I went to a liberal arts school, and the majority of the people I observed using adderall etc. were rich white guys using it to stay up all night/stay focused to make up for their constant partying/getting high/goofing off.

As the article mentions: “According to McCabe’s research team, white male undergraduates at highly competitive schools—especially in the Northeast—are the most frequent collegiate users of neuroenhancers. Users are also more likely to belong to a fraternity or a sorority, and to have a G.P.A. of 3.0 or lower… In other words, they are decent students at schools where, to be a great student, you have to give up a lot more partying than they’re willing to give up”

Most of the time, these people aren’t going to be the ones discovering evolution or making great advances in their field because they’re undergraduate students. Mediocre ones at best.

I just don’t think it’s fair that these students can go out partying, then use drugs to bring themselves up to the same level as people who work their butts off to get the same grades (forcing them to work twice as hard to do even better). If you’re not willing to buckle down and do the work (and give up a few things in the process, like a night or two of partying) then you should be doing something else. Apparently I am a minority in this opinion, but it’s just the way I feel.

Someone above mentioned that my feelings must mean that I think drinking coffee should be considered “cheating” as well, or an unfair advantage. Coffee is cheap, legal, available to everyone, and has been determined safe for consumption without a prescription with few or no serious side effects. If a similar adderall alternative was available then sure, I’d be all for it. The fact that drugs enhance performance does not bother me as much as the fact that they’re illegal, potentially dangerous, and not freely and equally available to everyone.

]]> By: ia_ http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471305 ia_ Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471305 He said school was about achieving a work/life balance, not physics. Even if you're taking pills to be more productive every day, you still need to develop time management and study skills, aka a work life balance. Not everything can be done in an all-nighter, unless you limit yourself a lot. He said school was about achieving a work/life balance, not physics.

Even if you’re taking pills to be more productive every day, you still need to develop time management and study skills, aka a work life balance. Not everything can be done in an all-nighter, unless you limit yourself a lot.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470285 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470285 http://www.druginjurylaw.com/Adderall-lawsuits.html http://www.druginjurylaw.com/Adderall-lawsuits.html

]]> By: jso http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470805 jso Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470805 As for burning out, tell that to Paul Erdos; a regular amphetamine user who died at the early age of 83. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s As for burning out, tell that to Paul Erdos; a regular amphetamine user who died at the early age of 83.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470295 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470295 Take L-glutamine pills and eat chocolate. It works wonders. The chocolate makes you a bit tubby, but the magnesium content is really good for your short term memory (although causes memory loss in large doses) and the caffeine keeps you sharp. The L-glutamine helps prevent muscle degeneration. Also be sure to eat protein an hour before any study. Take L-glutamine pills and eat chocolate. It works wonders. The chocolate makes you a bit tubby, but the magnesium content is really good for your short term memory (although causes memory loss in large doses) and the caffeine keeps you sharp. The L-glutamine helps prevent muscle degeneration. Also be sure to eat protein an hour before any study.

]]> By: Maggie Koerth-Baker http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470301 Maggie Koerth-Baker Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470301 As someone who takes methvlin daily, I have a hard time understanding why this meme is freaking everybody out so bad. As someone who takes methvlin daily, I have a hard time understanding why this meme is freaking everybody out so bad.

]]> By: x99901 http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470576 x99901 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470576 I take piracetam an choline citrate. It helped me when I quit caffeine and nicotine. It may help my cognition, but not in nearly as noticeable a way as caffeine. @3 Maggie Koerth-Baker How long have you been taking Methylphenidate? What made you choose it over Amphetamine? I take piracetam an choline citrate. It helped me when I quit caffeine and nicotine. It may help my cognition, but not in nearly as noticeable a way as caffeine.
@3 Maggie Koerth-Baker
How long have you been taking Methylphenidate? What made you choose it over Amphetamine?

]]> By: smgrady http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-485424 smgrady Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485424 With these types of drugs there are often unforeseen drawbacks, as made clear by the many examples mentioned in the story and some user comments. Here is another: My friend is a sleep researcher and was asked by the air force why their pilots were crashing into gondola cables. As it turns out, the amphetamines fed to the pilots kept them alert and awake, but pilot capacity for mental calculation still declines as the need for sleep increases. Generally, evolution suggests to me that we get sleepy for very important reasons. Additionally, many drugs have state-dependent memory effects. i.e., it is much easier to remember a task/fact/concept when you are in a similar mental state. Thus if you cram while taking a certain drug, you will have poor information retention while not on the same drug. Flooding your brain with acetylcholine can't be that much better than flooding it with dopamine and norepinephrine. I'm not against taking these drugs. I am just very very cautious. If I'm interested in enhancing myself, I don't want a false sense of increase, or state dependent effects. There is no safe drug, only safe doses. With these types of drugs there are often unforeseen drawbacks, as made clear by the many examples mentioned in the story and some user comments. Here is another:

My friend is a sleep researcher and was asked by the air force why their pilots were crashing into gondola cables. As it turns out, the amphetamines fed to the pilots kept them alert and awake, but pilot capacity for mental calculation still declines as the need for sleep increases. Generally, evolution suggests to me that we get sleepy for very important reasons.

Additionally, many drugs have state-dependent memory effects. i.e., it is much easier to remember a task/fact/concept when you are in a similar mental state. Thus if you cram while taking a certain drug, you will have poor information retention while not on the same drug. Flooding your brain with acetylcholine can’t be that much better than flooding it with dopamine and norepinephrine.

I’m not against taking these drugs. I am just very very cautious. If I’m interested in enhancing myself, I don’t want a false sense of increase, or state dependent effects.

There is no safe drug, only safe doses.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470587 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470587 I've been mail ordering Modafinil for years in the states. I use it when I am sleep deprived and have to function at a fairly high level. I'm an IT consultant, and this drug has pulled my nuts out of many a jam, or made tight project deadlines at the very least much more pleasant and manageable. It's a very interesting substance that catabolizes the brain's 'fatigue toxins' and gums up their receptors. This is a new class of drug, a Eugeroic (literally 'Good Lift')not an amphetamine. A few minutes after ingesting modafinil, you're just not tired. Modafinil has very low toxicity, few drug interactions and almost no side effects. The only unwanted effect I notice is that it cranks up my libido to an almost distracting degree. Great stuff - truly better living through creative pharmacology. Google around if you're in the states - there are many safe, semi-legal ways to order this. I’ve been mail ordering Modafinil for years in the states. I use it when I am sleep deprived and have to function at a fairly high level. I’m an IT consultant, and this drug has pulled my nuts out of many a jam, or made tight project deadlines at the very least much more pleasant and manageable. It’s a very interesting substance that catabolizes the brain’s ‘fatigue toxins’ and gums up their receptors.

This is a new class of drug, a Eugeroic (literally ‘Good Lift’)not an amphetamine. A few minutes after ingesting modafinil, you’re just not tired. Modafinil has very low toxicity, few drug interactions and almost no side effects. The only unwanted effect I notice is that it cranks up my libido to an almost distracting degree.

Great stuff – truly better living through creative pharmacology. Google around if you’re in the states – there are many safe, semi-legal ways to order this.

]]> By: certron http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470342 certron Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470342 I would like to note that modafinil isn't really an amphetamine, although I'm not qualified to tell why, aside from it not being a traditional stimulant, more of an 'alertness aid' (although those are bordering on marketing words). I would like to note that modafinil isn’t really an amphetamine, although I’m not qualified to tell why, aside from it not being a traditional stimulant, more of an ‘alertness aid’ (although those are bordering on marketing words).

]]> By: J France http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-472403 J France Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-472403 They're looking at using Modafinil as an ATSMT (Amphetamine Type Stimulant Maintenance Therapy)in several parts of the world, mine included. I think that alone speaks volumes as to what sort of drug it is, when you look at diamorphine vs methadone and carry comparisons to dexamphetamine/methamphetmine vs Modafinil. I see no problem with using these drugs for a wide array of issues, or non-medical problems / off label - it's an extention of human evolution, guys. Doctors who get uptight about using medications for which they were designed because you might enjoy it, or get additional benefits need to STFU and look at what modern pharmacotherapies are about (or maybe should be about, in my opinion). They’re looking at using Modafinil as an ATSMT (Amphetamine Type Stimulant Maintenance Therapy)in several parts of the world, mine included.

I think that alone speaks volumes as to what sort of drug it is, when you look at diamorphine vs methadone and carry comparisons to dexamphetamine/methamphetmine vs Modafinil.

I see no problem with using these drugs for a wide array of issues, or non-medical problems / off label – it’s an extention of human evolution, guys. Doctors who get uptight about using medications for which they were designed because you might enjoy it, or get additional benefits need to STFU and look at what modern pharmacotherapies are about (or maybe should be about, in my opinion).

]]> By: Narual http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470625 Narual Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470625 I've been taking provigil to help with delayed sleep phase syndrome since early 2007. I haven't noticed it helping my memory at all, but it definitely helps me stay awake and has over time greatly helped me maintain a more 'normal' internal clock. I still have times where I can't fall asleep til 4 AM, but a few months ago the doctor gave me Lunesta to help with that (Ambien doesn't seem to do anything to me at all), and if I don't take that til it's too late, at least the provigil allows me to function somewhat normally throughout the day. And now I make it in to work between 7 and 8:15 probably.... 90% of the time, and by 8:45 99% of the time. (and the once every couple of months I don't, there's usually a secondary reason, like a power outage or forgetting to turn on my alarm) When I first started it I decided to blog the experience, but the overabundance of energy that prompted that only lasted the first couple of days, so it didn't make for terribly interesting writing or reading, so I stopped... but I did keep the domain and the original entries: http://provigilandi.com/ I’ve been taking provigil to help with delayed sleep phase syndrome since early 2007. I haven’t noticed it helping my memory at all, but it definitely helps me stay awake and has over time greatly helped me maintain a more ‘normal’ internal clock. I still have times where I can’t fall asleep til 4 AM, but a few months ago the doctor gave me Lunesta to help with that (Ambien doesn’t seem to do anything to me at all), and if I don’t take that til it’s too late, at least the provigil allows me to function somewhat normally throughout the day. And now I make it in to work between 7 and 8:15 probably…. 90% of the time, and by 8:45 99% of the time. (and the once every couple of months I don’t, there’s usually a secondary reason, like a power outage or forgetting to turn on my alarm)

When I first started it I decided to blog the experience, but the overabundance of energy that prompted that only lasted the first couple of days, so it didn’t make for terribly interesting writing or reading, so I stopped… but I did keep the domain and the original entries:
http://provigilandi.com/

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470373 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470373 Speed isn't a 'meme.' That's a sophmoric perspective. Google 'addictive behavior speed.' Meditation, exercise, and a well-balanced diet enhance productivity and don't reinforce substance abuse. Speed isn’t a ‘meme.’ That’s a sophmoric perspective. Google ‘addictive behavior speed.’ Meditation, exercise, and a well-balanced diet enhance productivity and don’t reinforce substance abuse.

]]> By: madzack http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470383 madzack Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470383 i definitely have sponged off some of my roommates adderall when i have the need to be up for hours on end. i definitely have sponged off some of my roommates adderall when i have the need to be up for hours on end.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471407 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471407 I have taken Provigil by prescription for a year now. I think it is an outstanding replacement for amphetamine in terms of wakefulness - there is no 'high', no 'crash', and in my experience you don't build a tolerance to it and it is not addictive. As for productivity, I think it is very good for some tasks (like writing), but it makes multitasking and working with others more difficult. I do have two side effects on the days I take it though - insomnia and irritability. I have taken Provigil by prescription for a year now.

I think it is an outstanding replacement for amphetamine in terms of wakefulness – there is no ‘high’, no ‘crash’, and in my experience you don’t build a tolerance to it and it is not addictive.

As for productivity, I think it is very good for some tasks (like writing), but it makes multitasking and working with others more difficult.

I do have two side effects on the days I take it though – insomnia and irritability.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470401 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470401 nice illustration by Adrian Tomine nice illustration by Adrian Tomine

]]> By: pecoto http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470402 pecoto Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470402 The military has been using amphetamines and similar drugs for decades. Why is it big news now that they might actually help you remain alert? If a drugs benefits outweigh its potential drawbacks then why not make it available for use? Notice I said available...not freely available. Why not just require a doctor's prescription for a lot of these enhancers....and ban them from competitions that could benefit from these types of enhancements. If there was a drug that enhanced perception, fine motor control and concentration wouldn't you want your brain surgeon on a heavy dose before they opened up your skull? The military has been using amphetamines and similar drugs for decades. Why is it big news now that they might actually help you remain alert? If a drugs benefits outweigh its potential drawbacks then why not make it available for use? Notice I said available…not freely available. Why not just require a doctor’s prescription for a lot of these enhancers….and ban them from competitions that could benefit from these types of enhancements. If there was a drug that enhanced perception, fine motor control and concentration wouldn’t you want your brain surgeon on a heavy dose before they opened up your skull?

]]> By: apoxia http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471182 apoxia Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471182 So you give someone a stimulant drug and their working memory improves? That's not really anything new. So you give someone a stimulant drug and their working memory improves? That’s not really anything new.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470415 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470415 that didn't turn out well https://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/index.php?showtopic=1063&mode=threaded&pid=5438 that didn’t turn out well
https://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/index.php?showtopic=1063&mode=threaded&pid=5438

]]> By: Andrew B. http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470416 Andrew B. Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470416 take L-Arginine about the same time you take the protein. since it increases blood flow. so you will feel a little more awake that with just the caffeine stim. excerpt from the arginine wiki "The benefits and functions attributed to oral ingestion of L-arginine include: * Precursor for the synthesis of nitric oxide (NO) * Stimulation of the release of growth hormone. * Improves immune function * Reduces healing time of injuries (particularly bone) * Quickens repair time of damaged tissue * Reduces risk of heart disease * Increases muscle mass * Reduces adipose tissue body fat * Helps improve insulin sensitivity * Helps decrease blood pressure * Alleviates male infertility, improving sperm production and motility * Increases circulation throughout the body, including the sex organs" take L-Arginine about the same time you take the protein. since it increases blood flow. so you will feel a little more awake that with just the caffeine stim.

excerpt from the arginine wiki
“The benefits and functions attributed to oral ingestion of L-arginine include:

* Precursor for the synthesis of nitric oxide (NO)
* Stimulation of the release of growth hormone.
* Improves immune function
* Reduces healing time of injuries (particularly bone)
* Quickens repair time of damaged tissue
* Reduces risk of heart disease
* Increases muscle mass
* Reduces adipose tissue body fat
* Helps improve insulin sensitivity
* Helps decrease blood pressure
* Alleviates male infertility, improving sperm production and motility
* Increases circulation throughout the body, including the sex organs”

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470928 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470928 <i>I know of total boneheads who took ritalin and a few other prescription drugs before taking the New York State Bar exam, and passed despite their lethargic study habits.</i> So my lawyer either has to take drugs to perform or is underperforming when she's representing me in court? Perhaps we should give less emphasis to test scores. I know of total boneheads who took ritalin and a few other prescription drugs before taking the New York State Bar exam, and passed despite their lethargic study habits.

So my lawyer either has to take drugs to perform or is underperforming when she’s representing me in court? Perhaps we should give less emphasis to test scores.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470929 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470929 While I was riding on BART last week I overheard a lengthy conversation between two Cal Berkeley students about how the use of Adderall had significantly improved their performance on finals. Too bad not all Cal students have access to (or are able to afford) the kinds of doctors who will prescribe cognitive enhancers that aren't needed. Are neuro-enhancement drugs the new "white privilege?" While I was riding on BART last week I overheard a lengthy conversation between two Cal Berkeley students about how the use of Adderall had significantly improved their performance on finals.

Too bad not all Cal students have access to (or are able to afford) the kinds of doctors who will prescribe cognitive enhancers that aren’t needed.

Are neuro-enhancement drugs the new “white privilege?”

]]> By: x99901 http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471186 x99901 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471186 @25 anonymous >>adderall as white privilege. Actually, I go to a State University of NY school, and we have free access to a psychiatrist. The only thing you have to do to get prescribed adderall is fill out a form with the symptoms of ADD checked off correctly. Then to buy them you just have to go to Wal-Mart and even if you don't have insurance, they'll give you your prescription for only a $5 copay. @25 anonymous
>>adderall as white privilege.

Actually, I go to a State University of NY school, and we have free access to a psychiatrist. The only thing you have to do to get prescribed adderall is fill out a form with the symptoms of ADD checked off correctly. Then to buy them you just have to go to Wal-Mart and even if you don’t have insurance, they’ll give you your prescription for only a $5 copay.

]]> By: x99901 http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471193 x99901 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471193 @Maggie Koerth-Baker. Not to be a pedant, but you mean Methylin, not Methvlin. I'm glad it works for you. @26 The position that taking stimulants to get ahead is cheating is laughable. Would you stand by the position that drinking coffee to get ahead is cheating? Would you force a prospective employee to take a drug test and turn him down if he was 'cheating' by taking stimulants without a prescription? @Maggie Koerth-Baker. Not to be a pedant, but you mean Methylin, not Methvlin. I’m glad it works for you.

@26
The position that taking stimulants to get ahead is cheating is laughable. Would you stand by the position that drinking coffee to get ahead is cheating? Would you force a prospective employee to take a drug test and turn him down if he was ‘cheating’ by taking stimulants without a prescription?

]]> By: apoxia http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471199 apoxia Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471199 #31 - X99901 Some psychiatrists bug me. I performed an adult ADHD assessment that involved interviewing the client for a couple of hours (including full screening for disorders and a developmental history), interviewing his mother for a couple of hours and administering validated ADHD self-report scales to the client, his father and best friend. I also read his school reports, did full intelligence testing, a learning disability assessment and a personality assessment. To think that some doctors use a self-report symptom checklist for "diagnosing" a disorder is mind-boggling. #31 – X99901

Some psychiatrists bug me.

I performed an adult ADHD assessment that involved interviewing the client for a couple of hours (including full screening for disorders and a developmental history), interviewing his mother for a couple of hours and administering validated ADHD self-report scales to the client, his father and best friend. I also read his school reports, did full intelligence testing, a learning disability assessment and a personality assessment.

To think that some doctors use a self-report symptom checklist for “diagnosing” a disorder is mind-boggling.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470436 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470436 "in 2008 Cephalon paid <em>four hundred and twenty-five million dollars</em> and pleaded guilty to a federal criminal charge relating to its promotion of off-label uses for Provigil and two other drugs." The fine didn't slow them down a bit. Nuvigil, the long-lasting version of Provigil, is coming soon to a pharmacy near you. The reporter's conclusion: "Neuroenhancers don’t offer freedom. Rather, they facilitate a pinched, unromantic, grindingly efficient form of productivity." “in 2008 Cephalon paid four hundred and twenty-five million dollars and pleaded guilty to a federal criminal charge relating to its promotion of off-label uses for Provigil and two other drugs.”

The fine didn’t slow them down a bit. Nuvigil, the long-lasting version of Provigil, is coming soon to a pharmacy near you.

The reporter’s conclusion:
“Neuroenhancers don’t offer freedom. Rather, they facilitate a pinched, unromantic, grindingly efficient form of productivity.”

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-470949 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-470949 I went to a small liberal arts school in the northeast, and heard about a lot of adderall usage by the students there. Now, I have no problem with adderall and other such drugs if the person taking them actually has a problem (ADD, ADHD, etc), but it REALLY infuriates me when students take drugs like this just to get ahead. It's cheating and it's not fair to those who don't have access to the drugs, or don't want to take the drugs. We have to work twice as hard just to stay at the same level. I'm currently in grad school for physics, and it's very competitive. I can easily see why students would be tempted to use these drugs, but you can't solve every little problem by taking a pill! School is about learning study skills and how to achieve the work/life balance. I went to a small liberal arts school in the northeast, and heard about a lot of adderall usage by the students there.

Now, I have no problem with adderall and other such drugs if the person taking them actually has a problem (ADD, ADHD, etc), but it REALLY infuriates me when students take drugs like this just to get ahead. It’s cheating and it’s not fair to those who don’t have access to the drugs, or don’t want to take the drugs. We have to work twice as hard just to stay at the same level.

I’m currently in grad school for physics, and it’s very competitive. I can easily see why students would be tempted to use these drugs, but you can’t solve every little problem by taking a pill! School is about learning study skills and how to achieve the work/life balance.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471205 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471205 While sitting in the clinic waiting room one day, I watched a mother and late teen-aged son reading an ADHD pamphlet and quite obviously memorizing symptoms for their consultation. While sitting in the clinic waiting room one day, I watched a mother and late teen-aged son reading an ADHD pamphlet and quite obviously memorizing symptoms for their consultation.

]]> By: BrainDance http://boingboing.net/2009/04/21/the-new-yorker-on-th.html#comment-471975 BrainDance Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-471975 #40 The end goal though in science really isn't to have a "fair" playing field for everyone. It's to get work done (a point made more eloquently Spazzm.) I honestly don't care whats "fair" in my field, as long as it churns out results. Sure a good work ethic is important, but will the Stroop effect suddenly become invalid if John Stroop turned out to be high? If he was "cheating" his peers out of figuring it out first with stimulants? What if Darwin noticed this beautiful connection among lifeforms because he ate the wrong mushrooms, is that cheating? Whats fair for you is irrelevant. If a person becomes competent in their respective field (whether on drugs or not) and is able to successfully work in that field be it research or an applied form of the science, there's no real issue. #40
The end goal though in science really isn’t to have a “fair” playing field for everyone. It’s to get work done (a point made more eloquently Spazzm.)

I honestly don’t care whats “fair” in my field, as long as it churns out results. Sure a good work ethic is important, but will the Stroop effect suddenly become invalid if John Stroop turned out to be high? If he was “cheating” his peers out of figuring it out first with stimulants?

What if Darwin noticed this beautiful connection among lifeforms because he ate the wrong mushrooms, is that cheating?

Whats fair for you is irrelevant. If a person becomes competent in their respective field (whether on drugs or not) and is able to successfully work in that field be it research or an applied form of the science, there’s no real issue.

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