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	<title>Comments on: Economy will get a lot worse -- The&#160;Economist</title>
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		<title>By: Ranessin</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475904</link>
		<dc:creator>Ranessin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475904</guid>
		<description>Why the &quot;(hyper)-inflation will surely come&quot;-think? The crash removed 4-5 trillion of worth from the markets, the governments have pumped 3-4 trillions into the market, overall there is less money and assets in the market now than there was two years ago - how exactly should this lead to hyper-inflation if there is actually less money (and value - assets lost a lot too after all) in the system than before?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the &#8220;(hyper)-inflation will surely come&#8221;-think? The crash removed 4-5 trillion of worth from the markets, the governments have pumped 3-4 trillions into the market, overall there is less money and assets in the market now than there was two years ago &#8211; how exactly should this lead to hyper-inflation if there is actually less money (and value &#8211; assets lost a lot too after all) in the system than before?</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475650</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475650</guid>
		<description>credit due to a woman of Polish humour extraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>credit due to a woman of Polish humour extraction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475653</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475653</guid>
		<description>no really, she&#039;s shameless:

The Swede&#039;s wife steps up to the tee and, as she bends  
over to place her ball, a gust of wind blows her skirt  
up and reveals her lack of underwear. &quot;Good God, woman! Why aren&#039;t you wearing any skivvies?&quot; Ole demands.  

&quot;Well, you don&#039;t give me enough housekeeping money to afford any.&quot; The Swede immediately reaches into his pocket and says, &quot;For the sake of decency, here&#039;s a 50. Go and buy yourself some underwear.&quot;  

Next, the Irishman&#039;s wife bends over to set her ball on the tee. Her skirt also blows up to show that she, too, is wearing no undies. &quot;Blessed Virgin Mary, woman! You&#039;ve no knickers. Why not?&quot;  

She replies, &quot;I can&#039;t afford any on the money you give me.&quot; Patrick reaches into his pocket and says, &quot;For the sake of decency, here&#039;s a 20. Go and buy yourself some  
underwear!&quot;  

Lastly, the Scotsman&#039;s wife bends over. The wind also takes her skirt over her head to reveal that she, too, is naked underneath. &quot;Sweet mudder of Jaysus, Aggie! Where ta friggin hell are yer drawers?&quot;  

She, too, explains, &quot;You dinna give me enough money ta be able ta affarrd any.&quot;  

The Scotsman reaches into his pocket and says, &quot;Well, fer the love &#039;o decency, here&#039;s a comb ... tidy yerself up a bit!&quot; 
                                      
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no really, she&#8217;s shameless:</p>
<p>The Swede&#8217;s wife steps up to the tee and, as she bends<br />
over to place her ball, a gust of wind blows her skirt<br />
up and reveals her lack of underwear. &#8220;Good God, woman! Why aren&#8217;t you wearing any skivvies?&#8221; Ole demands.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Well, you don&#8217;t give me enough housekeeping money to afford any.&#8221; The Swede immediately reaches into his pocket and says, &#8220;For the sake of decency, here&#8217;s a 50. Go and buy yourself some underwear.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Next, the Irishman&#8217;s wife bends over to set her ball on the tee. Her skirt also blows up to show that she, too, is wearing no undies. &#8220;Blessed Virgin Mary, woman! You&#8217;ve no knickers. Why not?&#8221;  </p>
<p>She replies, &#8220;I can&#8217;t afford any on the money you give me.&#8221; Patrick reaches into his pocket and says, &#8220;For the sake of decency, here&#8217;s a 20. Go and buy yourself some<br />
underwear!&#8221;  </p>
<p>Lastly, the Scotsman&#8217;s wife bends over. The wind also takes her skirt over her head to reveal that she, too, is naked underneath. &#8220;Sweet mudder of Jaysus, Aggie! Where ta friggin hell are yer drawers?&#8221;  </p>
<p>She, too, explains, &#8220;You dinna give me enough money ta be able ta affarrd any.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The Scotsman reaches into his pocket and says, &#8220;Well, fer the love &#8216;o decency, here&#8217;s a comb &#8230; tidy yerself up a bit!&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475663</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475663</guid>
		<description>Adam Smith was a Scot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam Smith was a Scot.</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-476176</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-476176</guid>
		<description>@82 Urshrew

Exactly.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.mises.org/archives/009446.asp&quot;&gt;Normal?&lt;/a&gt;

Why do people keep referring to the last several years as normal? Over and over again I hear supposed experts on CNBC and other news channels saying things like &quot;normally,&quot; &quot;how things usually are,&quot; or &quot;under normal circumstances&quot; when referring to the economic conditions present over the past several years. I hear the talking heads asking when banks will return to &quot;normal lending practices.&quot;

There is nothing normal about a recession; likewise, a boom phase is equally abnormal. During the boom phase no one asked when the banks would return to normal lending practices.

This is an example of what psychologists refer to as &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_fallacy&quot;&gt;regression fallacy&lt;/a&gt;.&quot; Regression fallacy theory states that individuals are more likely to interpret exceptional events/performance/scores as being average and expect the results to continue. Statisticians refer to this a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean&quot;&gt;Regression Toward the Mean&lt;/a&gt;.

To illustrate this point consider the following scenario. If XYZ company&#039;s stock shows 80% earnings growth for two years in a row while its closest competitors only show 15% earnings growth over the same period of time then investors are likely to expect XYZ&#039;s earnings growth for next year to be around 80%.

It is important that we are aware of our tendency to make this mistake. If the goal for the economy is to return to &quot;normal&quot; then we must recognize that the last several years have been an exceptional boom, not normal or average.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@82 Urshrew</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.mises.org/archives/009446.asp">Normal?</a></p>
<p>Why do people keep referring to the last several years as normal? Over and over again I hear supposed experts on CNBC and other news channels saying things like &#8220;normally,&#8221; &#8220;how things usually are,&#8221; or &#8220;under normal circumstances&#8221; when referring to the economic conditions present over the past several years. I hear the talking heads asking when banks will return to &#8220;normal lending practices.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is nothing normal about a recession; likewise, a boom phase is equally abnormal. During the boom phase no one asked when the banks would return to normal lending practices.</p>
<p>This is an example of what psychologists refer to as &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_fallacy">regression fallacy</a>.&#8221; Regression fallacy theory states that individuals are more likely to interpret exceptional events/performance/scores as being average and expect the results to continue. Statisticians refer to this a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean">Regression Toward the Mean</a>.</p>
<p>To illustrate this point consider the following scenario. If XYZ company&#8217;s stock shows 80% earnings growth for two years in a row while its closest competitors only show 15% earnings growth over the same period of time then investors are likely to expect XYZ&#8217;s earnings growth for next year to be around 80%.</p>
<p>It is important that we are aware of our tendency to make this mistake. If the goal for the economy is to return to &#8220;normal&#8221; then we must recognize that the last several years have been an exceptional boom, not normal or average.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-677393</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-677393</guid>
		<description>Believing in this hype will only worsen our economy. How about instead of predicting what will happen, we do something constructive. Like offer beneficial solutions to the crisis we&#039;re in. These economists are a serious problem. Believing their BS during the bubbling market got us here in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believing in this hype will only worsen our economy. How about instead of predicting what will happen, we do something constructive. Like offer beneficial solutions to the crisis we&#8217;re in. These economists are a serious problem. Believing their BS during the bubbling market got us here in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-677395</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-677395</guid>
		<description>Thanks Republicans for you Obama insight. Do you remember voting in Bush?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Republicans for you Obama insight. Do you remember voting in Bush?</p>
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		<title>By: Telephoneface</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475674</link>
		<dc:creator>Telephoneface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475674</guid>
		<description>The Economist knows that bad news sells.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Economist knows that bad news sells.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475680</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475680</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The aim of capitalism is to create money, which inevitably leads to inflation, which inevitably leads to forced expansion; as soon as expansion is not possible (as it happened, this time, in the credit sector), the system goes down and you have to start from scratch. This happened since the dawn of time and will happen as long as money exists.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

The &quot;aim&quot; of capitalism, insofar as you can talk about an aim actually existing, is to maximize economic freedom by enforcing (physical) property rights. In a free market, your personal goal can be whatever you want it to be, but only those who create massive value for others get rich. 

If the total amount of (even fiat) currency in circulation was fixed, meaning no FDIC insured fractional reserve banking or Federal Reserve shenanigans, and if productivity overall rose, then the purchasing power of the currency would go up over time. Also, historically, there&#039;s a very strong correlation between societies that produce a lot and those which are freest.

My own aim is to live in one of those societies :) 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;The aim of capitalism is to create money, which inevitably leads to inflation, which inevitably leads to forced expansion; as soon as expansion is not possible (as it happened, this time, in the credit sector), the system goes down and you have to start from scratch. This happened since the dawn of time and will happen as long as money exists.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The &#8220;aim&#8221; of capitalism, insofar as you can talk about an aim actually existing, is to maximize economic freedom by enforcing (physical) property rights. In a free market, your personal goal can be whatever you want it to be, but only those who create massive value for others get rich. </p>
<p>If the total amount of (even fiat) currency in circulation was fixed, meaning no FDIC insured fractional reserve banking or Federal Reserve shenanigans, and if productivity overall rose, then the purchasing power of the currency would go up over time. Also, historically, there&#8217;s a very strong correlation between societies that produce a lot and those which are freest.</p>
<p>My own aim is to live in one of those societies :) </p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475692</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475692</guid>
		<description>well, after all, it is called the &quot;dismal science&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, after all, it is called the &#8220;dismal science&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475693</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475693</guid>
		<description>economists need to spend more time studying primate anthropology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>economists need to spend more time studying primate anthropology.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475694</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475694</guid>
		<description>this stock market rally is just that a Fools Rally,everyone knows it, yet noone dare speak of it as such for fear of blowing down the house of cards. Soft metal backed monies is also an attempt at fail, what we must do is have a concurrent separate mony &amp; goods transaction system based on comodities just like in the middle ages. You bring in your harvested bushel of wheet, tsty corms, xbox, sofa, flat panel tv, or promise note to work X amount of hours doing X specialty in exchange you recieve your certificate reciept stating your number of credits that you may reedeem at this wheat house/Item/goods bank which you may use to trade for other goods or work promise notes at said bank or with other workers, neighbors friends ECT. This way promise notes have ACTUAL backing by real world goods and services. Unfortunately your boom bust cycles also disapear along with your potential to earn inerest on stored goods wich forces you to not save at all in the interest of spending your credit notes much like local currencies, goods and services must be used and spent preferably within a year as fast as possible lest the value of your harvested tsty corms diminishes as it starts to go bad or becomes obsolete much liek the xbox and games you just deposits in exchange for your credit certificate note. The reason golf/silvar backed mony was invented was to help nobles store tgeir wealth and power over generations vs being at the mercy of yearly random yeild tsty corm harvest wich can change or lower your station as a noble. Hence gold/ currency was born qickly followed by ??? And resulting in...  PROFIT!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this stock market rally is just that a Fools Rally,everyone knows it, yet noone dare speak of it as such for fear of blowing down the house of cards. Soft metal backed monies is also an attempt at fail, what we must do is have a concurrent separate mony &#038; goods transaction system based on comodities just like in the middle ages. You bring in your harvested bushel of wheet, tsty corms, xbox, sofa, flat panel tv, or promise note to work X amount of hours doing X specialty in exchange you recieve your certificate reciept stating your number of credits that you may reedeem at this wheat house/Item/goods bank which you may use to trade for other goods or work promise notes at said bank or with other workers, neighbors friends ECT. This way promise notes have ACTUAL backing by real world goods and services. Unfortunately your boom bust cycles also disapear along with your potential to earn inerest on stored goods wich forces you to not save at all in the interest of spending your credit notes much like local currencies, goods and services must be used and spent preferably within a year as fast as possible lest the value of your harvested tsty corms diminishes as it starts to go bad or becomes obsolete much liek the xbox and games you just deposits in exchange for your credit certificate note. The reason golf/silvar backed mony was invented was to help nobles store tgeir wealth and power over generations vs being at the mercy of yearly random yeild tsty corm harvest wich can change or lower your station as a noble. Hence gold/ currency was born qickly followed by ??? And resulting in&#8230;  PROFIT!!!</p>
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		<title>By: prof_jellis</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-895281</link>
		<dc:creator>prof_jellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-895281</guid>
		<description>Act 5 of the prediction episode of This American Life gave scads of examples of how bad the economists get things, with special mention of The Economist.  

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/397/2010

&quot;Why are you surprised that we can&#039;t predict the future?  We can&#039;t even predict the past!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Act 5 of the prediction episode of This American Life gave scads of examples of how bad the economists get things, with special mention of The Economist.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/397/2010" rel="nofollow">http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/397/2010</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Why are you surprised that we can&#8217;t predict the future?  We can&#8217;t even predict the past!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: davidasposted</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475705</link>
		<dc:creator>davidasposted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475705</guid>
		<description>I hope that all of you who have thus far positively contributed to this thread continue to read and respond to it, in part because I also hope you get this message: I very much appreciate all your thoughtful comments, they&#039;re helpful in understanding the problems, but also the possibilities, of this economic situation.

BoingBoing readers &gt; &lt;i&gt;The Economist&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that all of you who have thus far positively contributed to this thread continue to read and respond to it, in part because I also hope you get this message: I very much appreciate all your thoughtful comments, they&#8217;re helpful in understanding the problems, but also the possibilities, of this economic situation.</p>
<p>BoingBoing readers > <i>The Economist</i></p>
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		<title>By: mannakiosk</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475706</link>
		<dc:creator>mannakiosk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475706</guid>
		<description>&quot;Also, historically, there&#039;s a very strong correlation between societies that produce a lot and those which are freest.&quot;

Sounds logical. If there&#039;s plenty to go around and everyone is happy, there&#039;s not much need to deny the people freedom. 

Begs serious question: Why, then, is the US imprisoning so many of its people?

An other thing... Historically may not mean much if we keep polluting the top soil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Also, historically, there&#8217;s a very strong correlation between societies that produce a lot and those which are freest.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds logical. If there&#8217;s plenty to go around and everyone is happy, there&#8217;s not much need to deny the people freedom. </p>
<p>Begs serious question: Why, then, is the US imprisoning so many of its people?</p>
<p>An other thing&#8230; Historically may not mean much if we keep polluting the top soil.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475457</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475457</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always amazed at how The Economist can get economics so right, and so wrong. There may be some short term deflation as things collapse, but it&#039;s absolutely certain that massive government spending will lead to massive *inflation*. How could it otherwise? Government, especially the US government, is trying to buy its way out of the recession by printing money as fast as it can. We&#039;re not spending our savings (we have none), we&#039;re spending borrowed and printed money. Deflation is just the boogie monster used to justify giving bigger budgets to salivating politicos, when falling prices are, as many have pointed out, one of the few good things average-earning citizens get out of recessions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always amazed at how The Economist can get economics so right, and so wrong. There may be some short term deflation as things collapse, but it&#8217;s absolutely certain that massive government spending will lead to massive *inflation*. How could it otherwise? Government, especially the US government, is trying to buy its way out of the recession by printing money as fast as it can. We&#8217;re not spending our savings (we have none), we&#8217;re spending borrowed and printed money. Deflation is just the boogie monster used to justify giving bigger budgets to salivating politicos, when falling prices are, as many have pointed out, one of the few good things average-earning citizens get out of recessions.</p>
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		<title>By: numike</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475458</link>
		<dc:creator>numike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475458</guid>
		<description>calculated risk discusses the article here:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/04/economist-glimmer-of-hope.html

and galbraith comments here: It will surely be very slow to restore employment. At present writing jobs are being lost at the rate of over 600,000 per month. To reverse this in six months would require a swing to job creation of the same amount, or a net swing of 1.2 million jobs a month for half a year. This is not going to happen - not even close. Among many reasons, homebuilding is likely to be depressed for a long time, while elsewhere production gains will be backed by productivity increases. As a result, we can expect the human wreckage of this slump to persist and to deepen as the period of unemployment lengthens. Without direct employment measures, many of the people most hurt will not again find decent jobs.  
 
- As a result of the administration&#039;s determination to save the big banks, we will emerge from this slump with an unreformed financial sector in the hands of the same people who produced the disaster in the first place. While some bad assets will recover value, many will not, and losses will either go unrecognized or they will be transferred, via the public-private partnerships, first off the balance sheets of the banks and then to the taxpayer, when the mortgages default, via the non-recourse feature of the FDIC&#039;s loans. We could assess the likelihood of this happening, if we chose, by the simple step of auditing the loan tapes underlying a fair sample of sub-prime securities, to determine the prevalence of missing documentation, misrepresentation and prima facie fraud. Such a study would constitute minimum due diligence and that fact that one is not underway is a very bad sign.  
 
- In the expansion the early easy buck, especially for speculators, may well be in commodities, especially oil. A rapid increase in imported energy costs would reverse the effective stimulus now being given by low oil prices. It will also generate CPI inflation, perhaps inducing the Federal Reserve to slam on the brakes. There is little reason to hope that the recovery will be allowed to march us all the way back to full employment unless we overcome our vulnerability to volatile oil prices, and nothing in the plans so far suggests we have faced up to that elementary necessity.  
 
- A turnaround could bring the deficit hawks back out of the woodwork, arguing vociferously that &quot;now is the time&quot; for tax increases and entitlement cuts. Should they prevail, the process could be thrown into reverse, in a recapitulation of Roosevelt&#039;s balance-the-budget recession of 1937-38.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>calculated risk discusses the article here:<br />
<a href="http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/04/economist-glimmer-of-hope.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/04/economist-glimmer-of-hope.html</a></p>
<p>and galbraith comments here: It will surely be very slow to restore employment. At present writing jobs are being lost at the rate of over 600,000 per month. To reverse this in six months would require a swing to job creation of the same amount, or a net swing of 1.2 million jobs a month for half a year. This is not going to happen &#8211; not even close. Among many reasons, homebuilding is likely to be depressed for a long time, while elsewhere production gains will be backed by productivity increases. As a result, we can expect the human wreckage of this slump to persist and to deepen as the period of unemployment lengthens. Without direct employment measures, many of the people most hurt will not again find decent jobs.  </p>
<p>- As a result of the administration&#8217;s determination to save the big banks, we will emerge from this slump with an unreformed financial sector in the hands of the same people who produced the disaster in the first place. While some bad assets will recover value, many will not, and losses will either go unrecognized or they will be transferred, via the public-private partnerships, first off the balance sheets of the banks and then to the taxpayer, when the mortgages default, via the non-recourse feature of the FDIC&#8217;s loans. We could assess the likelihood of this happening, if we chose, by the simple step of auditing the loan tapes underlying a fair sample of sub-prime securities, to determine the prevalence of missing documentation, misrepresentation and prima facie fraud. Such a study would constitute minimum due diligence and that fact that one is not underway is a very bad sign.  </p>
<p>- In the expansion the early easy buck, especially for speculators, may well be in commodities, especially oil. A rapid increase in imported energy costs would reverse the effective stimulus now being given by low oil prices. It will also generate CPI inflation, perhaps inducing the Federal Reserve to slam on the brakes. There is little reason to hope that the recovery will be allowed to march us all the way back to full employment unless we overcome our vulnerability to volatile oil prices, and nothing in the plans so far suggests we have faced up to that elementary necessity.  </p>
<p>- A turnaround could bring the deficit hawks back out of the woodwork, arguing vociferously that &#8220;now is the time&#8221; for tax increases and entitlement cuts. Should they prevail, the process could be thrown into reverse, in a recapitulation of Roosevelt&#8217;s balance-the-budget recession of 1937-38.</p>
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		<title>By: buddy66</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475719</link>
		<dc:creator>buddy66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475719</guid>
		<description>#50...

Takuan, is this a paraphrased allusion to a classic Bruce Jay Friedman story? Either way, genuine LOL. Got me.

&amp;#59...

Absolutely. Too many economists confuse finance with economics. They study the parasite, not the host.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#50&#8230;</p>
<p>Takuan, is this a paraphrased allusion to a classic Bruce Jay Friedman story? Either way, genuine LOL. Got me.</p>
<p>&#59&#8230;</p>
<p>Absolutely. Too many economists confuse finance with economics. They study the parasite, not the host.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Trumbull</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475721</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Trumbull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475721</guid>
		<description>I started a podcast feature some years ago known as &quot;The Short Attention Span Philosopher&quot;. I&#039;m always researching quotations. So I though Karl Marx probably had something to say about financial panics and it turns out he did:

 It is enough to mention the commercial crises that by their periodical return put on its trial, each time more threateningly, the existence of the
entire bourgeois society.  In these crises a great part not only of the existing products, but also of the previously created productive forces, are periodically destroyed.  In these crises
there breaks out an epidemic that, in all earlier epochs, would have seemed an absurdity--the epidemic of over-production. Society suddenly finds itself put back into a state of momentary
barbarism; it appears as if a famine, a universal war of devastation had cut off the supply of every means of subsistence; industry and commerce seem to be destroyed; and why?  Because there is too much civilisation, too much means of subsistence, too much industry, too much commerce.  The productive forces at the disposal of society no longer tend to further the development of the conditions of bourgeois property; on the contrary, they have become too powerful for these conditions, by which they are
fettered, and so soon as they overcome these fetters, they bring disorder into the whole of bourgeois society, endanger the existence of bourgeois property.  The conditions of bourgeois
society are too narrow to comprise the wealth created by them. And how does the bourgeoisie get over these crises?  On the one hand inforced destruction of a mass of productive forces; on the
other, by the conquest of new markets, and by the more thorough exploitation of the old ones.  That is to say, by paving the way for more extensive and more destructive crises, and by diminishing the means whereby crises are prevented.
From: MANIFESTO OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY 1888
The one danger which no one has talked about is what will happen if a political movement starts up with this issue in it&#039;s teeth? 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started a podcast feature some years ago known as &#8220;The Short Attention Span Philosopher&#8221;. I&#8217;m always researching quotations. So I though Karl Marx probably had something to say about financial panics and it turns out he did:</p>
<p> It is enough to mention the commercial crises that by their periodical return put on its trial, each time more threateningly, the existence of the<br />
entire bourgeois society.  In these crises a great part not only of the existing products, but also of the previously created productive forces, are periodically destroyed.  In these crises<br />
there breaks out an epidemic that, in all earlier epochs, would have seemed an absurdity&#8211;the epidemic of over-production. Society suddenly finds itself put back into a state of momentary<br />
barbarism; it appears as if a famine, a universal war of devastation had cut off the supply of every means of subsistence; industry and commerce seem to be destroyed; and why?  Because there is too much civilisation, too much means of subsistence, too much industry, too much commerce.  The productive forces at the disposal of society no longer tend to further the development of the conditions of bourgeois property; on the contrary, they have become too powerful for these conditions, by which they are<br />
fettered, and so soon as they overcome these fetters, they bring disorder into the whole of bourgeois society, endanger the existence of bourgeois property.  The conditions of bourgeois<br />
society are too narrow to comprise the wealth created by them. And how does the bourgeoisie get over these crises?  On the one hand inforced destruction of a mass of productive forces; on the<br />
other, by the conquest of new markets, and by the more thorough exploitation of the old ones.  That is to say, by paving the way for more extensive and more destructive crises, and by diminishing the means whereby crises are prevented.<br />
From: MANIFESTO OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY 1888<br />
The one danger which no one has talked about is what will happen if a political movement starts up with this issue in it&#8217;s teeth? </p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475722</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475722</guid>
		<description>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeaBNAXfHfQ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeaBNAXfHfQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeaBNAXfHfQ</a></p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475467</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475467</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://mises.org/story/3390&quot;&gt;There Will Be (Hyper)Inflation&lt;/a&gt; (&lt;a href=&quot;http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audioarticles/3390_Polleit.mp3&quot;&gt;MP3&lt;/a&gt;)

The government controlled fiat-money regime is highly inflationary, as it allows for an increase in the stock of money mostly through bank credit in excess of real savings (&lt;i&gt;circulation credit&lt;/i&gt;). The rising money stock pushes up prices â€” be it consumer or asset prices (such as stocks, housing, etc.).

Expanding the money stock through circulation credit sets into motion an illusionary boom, leading to &lt;i&gt;malinvestment&lt;/i&gt;. However, the latter does not come to the surface as long as the credit and money supply keeps growing.

If money supply growth slows down all of a sudden, however, investor expectations are disappointed, and investment projects, which were â€” in a world of ever more money and rising prices â€” considered economically viable, become unprofitable.

The slowing down of money growth reveals that the production structure does not comply with actual demand, thereby unmasking the squandering of scarce resources. And so the artificial boom, induced by new money injections, turns into bust.

A policy of holding up the artificial boom would require &lt;i&gt;ever-greater increases in money&lt;/i&gt;. Ludwig von Mises saw that this would lead to disaster:

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mises.org/story/3390">There Will Be (Hyper)Inflation</a> (<a href="http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audioarticles/3390_Polleit.mp3">MP3</a>)</p>
<p>The government controlled fiat-money regime is highly inflationary, as it allows for an increase in the stock of money mostly through bank credit in excess of real savings (<i>circulation credit</i>). The rising money stock pushes up prices â€” be it consumer or asset prices (such as stocks, housing, etc.).</p>
<p>Expanding the money stock through circulation credit sets into motion an illusionary boom, leading to <i>malinvestment</i>. However, the latter does not come to the surface as long as the credit and money supply keeps growing.</p>
<p>If money supply growth slows down all of a sudden, however, investor expectations are disappointed, and investment projects, which were â€” in a world of ever more money and rising prices â€” considered economically viable, become unprofitable.</p>
<p>The slowing down of money growth reveals that the production structure does not comply with actual demand, thereby unmasking the squandering of scarce resources. And so the artificial boom, induced by new money injections, turns into bust.</p>
<p>A policy of holding up the artificial boom would require <i>ever-greater increases in money</i>. Ludwig von Mises saw that this would lead to disaster:</p>
<blockquote><p>There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Chas44</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475468</link>
		<dc:creator>Chas44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475468</guid>
		<description>A... Directory... Of... Wonderful... Things...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A&#8230; Directory&#8230; Of&#8230; Wonderful&#8230; Things&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475469</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475469</guid>
		<description>&quot;Deflation--a devastating disease in debt-laden economies--could set in as record economic slack pushes down prices and wages, particularly since headline inflation has already plunged thanks to sinking fuel costs.&quot;

So, is this saying that Deflation could set in, especially considering sinking fuel costs? 

Because sinking fuel costs will continue to be sinking? Or stay at their present sunken levels. How bad would things be on the off chance that fuel costs will in fact rise again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Deflation&#8211;a devastating disease in debt-laden economies&#8211;could set in as record economic slack pushes down prices and wages, particularly since headline inflation has already plunged thanks to sinking fuel costs.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, is this saying that Deflation could set in, especially considering sinking fuel costs? </p>
<p>Because sinking fuel costs will continue to be sinking? Or stay at their present sunken levels. How bad would things be on the off chance that fuel costs will in fact rise again?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475725</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475725</guid>
		<description>barter... Enuff said</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>barter&#8230; Enuff said</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475474</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475474</guid>
		<description>Though it is not a *great* strategy, the only way to beat bankers at their own game is to live life, as much as possible, off the &quot;financial grid.&quot; 

Instead of getting a bank loan to fix your car or roof, trade your services/goods/food with an unemployed friend who needs the work. 

The bankers run everything, and have it rigged so that they win no matter what. War and homelessness and mass starvation notwithstanding, they WILL have their luxuries. And everyone else will pay for it. Democracy at work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though it is not a *great* strategy, the only way to beat bankers at their own game is to live life, as much as possible, off the &#8220;financial grid.&#8221; </p>
<p>Instead of getting a bank loan to fix your car or roof, trade your services/goods/food with an unemployed friend who needs the work. </p>
<p>The bankers run everything, and have it rigged so that they win no matter what. War and homelessness and mass starvation notwithstanding, they WILL have their luxuries. And everyone else will pay for it. Democracy at work!</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475482</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475482</guid>
		<description>so Zuzu, how much do you have to adjust the labor supply down to have an effect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so Zuzu, how much do you have to adjust the labor supply down to have an effect?</p>
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		<title>By: DreadLetterDay</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475485</link>
		<dc:creator>DreadLetterDay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475485</guid>
		<description>Jubilee!

From teh wikis:  Jubilee (Christian), the year of Jubilee is a special year for the remission of sins and universal pardon where debts are forgiven, slaves and prisoners freed, and the mercies of God would be particularly manifest. In the Old Testament book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is to occur every fifty years.

Considering we&#039;ve gone about...  oooooh...  a millennium without one I&#039;d say it&#039;s about time, eh?

Leviticus hates bond holders as much as gays!  Who knew? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jubilee!</p>
<p>From teh wikis:  Jubilee (Christian), the year of Jubilee is a special year for the remission of sins and universal pardon where debts are forgiven, slaves and prisoners freed, and the mercies of God would be particularly manifest. In the Old Testament book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is to occur every fifty years.</p>
<p>Considering we&#8217;ve gone about&#8230;  oooooh&#8230;  a millennium without one I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s about time, eh?</p>
<p>Leviticus hates bond holders as much as gays!  Who knew? </p>
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		<title>By: Inkstain</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475486</link>
		<dc:creator>Inkstain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475486</guid>
		<description>&quot;A... Directory... Of... Wonderful... Things...?&quot;

I&#039;ve been wondering that myself lately.  It&#039;s one thing to mix in the occasional issue the bloggers care about, it&#039;s another thing to have an endless stream of &quot;you should be outraged by this!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A&#8230; Directory&#8230; Of&#8230; Wonderful&#8230; Things&#8230;?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering that myself lately.  It&#8217;s one thing to mix in the occasional issue the bloggers care about, it&#8217;s another thing to have an endless stream of &#8220;you should be outraged by this!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475743</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475743</guid>
		<description>@ 64 Roy Trumbull

I don&#039;t think we&#039;re even close to a communist revolution in the US. If anything we are much closer to a populist uprising that could easily turn authoritarian or fascist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 64 Roy Trumbull</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re even close to a communist revolution in the US. If anything we are much closer to a populist uprising that could easily turn authoritarian or fascist.</p>
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		<title>By: zuzu</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/04/26/economy-will-get-a-l.html#comment-475490</link>
		<dc:creator>zuzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-475490</guid>
		<description>Takuan,

The solution is to allow the necessary &lt;i&gt;deflation&lt;/i&gt; correction to bring prices back down to levels that yield &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_clearing&quot;&gt;market clearing&lt;/a&gt;.

The easiest way to do this would be to &lt;i&gt;raise&lt;/i&gt;, not lower, interest rates.  Banks will be compelled to refinance existing loans accordingly, or risk default and bankruptcy.  (Furthermore, banks must not be allowed to be shielded from bankruptcy through government intervention.)

This would also induce the &quot;save more and spend less&quot; agenda that Obama et. al. claim to desire in the long-term.  Instead of an economy centered on credit, it will return to one centered on savings.

Deflation favors those who independently save money.  Inflation favors the cartel of creditors.  But deflation is what we would naturally expect as an outcome due to division of labor and advancement in the technology of production (i.e. producing more with less).  The fact that we observe steady inflation in the real world goes a long way towards explaining the partnership between bankers and politicians for their fleecing of everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Takuan,</p>
<p>The solution is to allow the necessary <i>deflation</i> correction to bring prices back down to levels that yield <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_clearing">market clearing</a>.</p>
<p>The easiest way to do this would be to <i>raise</i>, not lower, interest rates.  Banks will be compelled to refinance existing loans accordingly, or risk default and bankruptcy.  (Furthermore, banks must not be allowed to be shielded from bankruptcy through government intervention.)</p>
<p>This would also induce the &#8220;save more and spend less&#8221; agenda that Obama et. al. claim to desire in the long-term.  Instead of an economy centered on credit, it will return to one centered on savings.</p>
<p>Deflation favors those who independently save money.  Inflation favors the cartel of creditors.  But deflation is what we would naturally expect as an outcome due to division of labor and advancement in the technology of production (i.e. producing more with less).  The fact that we observe steady inflation in the real world goes a long way towards explaining the partnership between bankers and politicians for their fleecing of everyone else.</p>
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