Comments on: Girls Against Girls: Why We Are Mean to Each Other and How We Can Change, by Bonnie Burton http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Sat, 25 May 2013 16:34:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Big Ed Dunkel http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480000 Big Ed Dunkel Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480000 This book is or isn't about giggling, doing each other's hair, and talking about boys? This book is or isn’t about giggling, doing each other’s hair, and talking about boys?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480004 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480004 thanks for coming out with the book after i got into college. thanks life thanks. T_________T xD thanks for coming out with the book after i got into college. thanks life thanks. T_________T xD

]]> By: jimh http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480016 jimh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480016 After re-reading my first comment, I think I may have the pig virus. HALP After re-reading my first comment, I think I may have the pig virus. HALP

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480275 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480275 I grew up in the 1970s, but it was in high school that this "sting" was first felt, and that was early 80s. Rather than give in and join the many cliques making these judgments and mean and taunting comments, I went my own way. Polo shirts and deck shoes were NOT for me. I was the only punk rocker in my grade, and it was kind of lonely, but people still tell me to this day how proud they were of how I always did my own thing and was strong enough to stand on my own. I grew up in the 1970s, but it was in high school that this “sting” was first felt, and that was early 80s. Rather than give in and join the many cliques making these judgments and mean and taunting comments, I went my own way. Polo shirts and deck shoes were NOT for me. I was the only punk rocker in my grade, and it was kind of lonely, but people still tell me to this day how proud they were of how I always did my own thing and was strong enough to stand on my own.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480023 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480023 I heard an interesting story... A middle eastern woman told me that women in her part of the world stuck together, because they had to. Being oppressed in many ways, they formed unions even with each other being strangers. But here in the U.S. females are in competition.. we are not enslaved by patriarchal society our sexuality is on display at all times and the fight to gain the attention of men makes the dynamics of female bonding much different. I don't know, just an observational point.... kind of. I heard an interesting story… A middle eastern woman told me that women in her part of the world stuck together, because they had to. Being oppressed in many ways, they formed unions even with each other being strangers. But here in the U.S. females are in competition.. we are not enslaved by patriarchal society our sexuality is on display at all times and the fight to gain the attention of men makes the dynamics of female bonding much different. I don’t know, just an observational point…. kind of.

]]> By: sammich http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480024 sammich Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480024 Jim H - take 2 paracetamol (Tylenol), burn all your belongings, then take 3 days in a sweat lodge burning sage. if your still alive in a fortnight, make an appointment. Jim H –

take 2 paracetamol (Tylenol), burn all your belongings, then take 3 days in a sweat lodge burning sage.

if your still alive in a fortnight, make an appointment.

]]> By: Bonnie http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480793 Bonnie Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480793 oops that was me. Forgot to sign in first! oops that was me. Forgot to sign in first!

]]> By: Sorcerer Mickey http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480283 Sorcerer Mickey Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480283 "Simpsons did it!" http://www.hulu.com/watch/69971/the-simpsons-father-knows-worst#s-p1-so-i0 “Simpsons did it!”
http://www.hulu.com/watch/69971/the-simpsons-father-knows-worst#s-p1-so-i0

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480028 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480028 "We are not enslaved by patriarchal society"? I disagree. We are brainwashed by the patriarchal society to please men, at varying degrees of self-destructiveness. Programmed to be happy as long as we're desired by men. Reminds me of an article on girl culture at the Sociological Images blog here: http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/04/28/girl-culture/ “We are not enslaved by patriarchal society”? I disagree. We are brainwashed by the patriarchal society to please men, at varying degrees of self-destructiveness. Programmed to be happy as long as we’re desired by men.

Reminds me of an article on girl culture at the Sociological Images blog here: http://contexts.org/socimages/2009/04/28/girl-culture/

]]> By: quesie http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480033 quesie Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480033 I'd like to read this, but I would like to cut thru the suspense and say, why is this emblematic of this generation? The title acts like it "twas ever so" but I never experienced this in my puberty... never. Was I 16 for some magic women's liberation moment or what? 1974 was a time warp? I didn't experience "mean girls" nor was I one of the perpetuators. My girlfriends meant the world to me. We had our ups and downs, but not this ritualistic paranoia. It was "boys" who were the big mystery and intimidation to me. Why is female sexual competition the last word in female relations these days? I’d like to read this, but I would like to cut thru the suspense and say, why is this emblematic of this generation? The title acts like it “twas ever so” but I never experienced this in my puberty… never. Was I 16 for some magic women’s liberation moment or what? 1974 was a time warp? I didn’t experience “mean girls” nor was I one of the perpetuators. My girlfriends meant the world to me. We had our ups and downs, but not this ritualistic paranoia. It was “boys” who were the big mystery and intimidation to me.

Why is female sexual competition the last word in female relations these days?

]]> By: adonai http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480036 adonai Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480036 Girls! Don't fight! And if you must fight, fight nice...<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_books">with pillows...and jim-jams</a>... Girls! Don’t fight! And if you must fight, fight nice…with pillows…and jim-jams…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480038 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480038 the snide comments mocking girls and our sexualities are really un-called for. It's really sad that guys can't even have a serious conversation without mocking us. the snide comments mocking girls and our sexualities are really un-called for. It’s really sad that guys can’t even have a serious conversation without mocking us.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480045 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480045 @Quesie - either a time warp - or there's a chance you were the bully and oblivious to it (not picking a fight just a possibility). For me - growing up in the 80s it was brutal all through elementary school and junior high. It wasn't until I moved in high school - started working and saving for college that it got easier. Completely removing myself from the cliques helped a lot - that and I pretty much told everyone to bugger off. @Quesie – either a time warp – or there’s a chance you were the bully and oblivious to it (not picking a fight just a possibility).
For me – growing up in the 80s it was brutal all through elementary school and junior high. It wasn’t until I moved in high school – started working and saving for college that it got easier. Completely removing myself from the cliques helped a lot – that and I pretty much told everyone to bugger off.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-1081135 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1081135 Anyone who says they've never experienced a "mean girl" is a moronic liar. No one is free from suffering, and no one is free from insult. You have experienced a mean girl, or else this book wouldn't exist. I wouldn't buy a self-help book from a person who's never helped themselves in a situation they've never been in. Anyone who says they’ve never experienced a “mean girl” is a moronic liar.
No one is free from suffering, and no one is free from insult.
You have experienced a mean girl, or else this book wouldn’t exist. I wouldn’t buy a self-help book from a person who’s never helped themselves in a situation they’ve never been in.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480055 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480055 Quesie - I often wonder that myself. Was I just too oblivious to notice the alpha girl game? Was I not pretty or cool enough to qualify for the competition? I don't identify with this stuff at all, and I grew up in the 90s. But then I think I'm missing out on the world that Anon #7 is talking about, also. Yes I'm unhappy when I'm not desired by my mate. I'm also unhappy when I am hungry, when I am uncomfortably hot, and when other basic human desires are not met. Quesie – I often wonder that myself. Was I just too oblivious to notice the alpha girl game? Was I not pretty or cool enough to qualify for the competition? I don’t identify with this stuff at all, and I grew up in the 90s.

But then I think I’m missing out on the world that Anon #7 is talking about, also. Yes I’m unhappy when I’m not desired by my mate. I’m also unhappy when I am hungry, when I am uncomfortably hot, and when other basic human desires are not met.

]]> By: Ultan http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480058 Ultan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480058 I really don't care anymore About all the jim-jams in this town And all the catty girls makin crazy sounds And everybody puttin everybody else down And all the dread bodies dolled up in gowns -Heroine, Lee Rood / The Velvet Undertone I really don’t care anymore
About all the jim-jams in this town
And all the catty girls makin crazy sounds
And everybody puttin everybody else down
And all the dread bodies dolled up in gowns

-Heroine, Lee Rood / The Velvet Undertone

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480061 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480061 Most of my friends in school were girls. I know - shocking that a gay man in high school in the 70s would have mostly female friends. There wasn't really any discernible competition/meanness/bullying. I would guess that it was because none of my female (or male) friends had the slightest interest in dating. We were all smart and quite capable of entertaining ourselves. Once you remove the quest for mating, people of all sorts seem much nicer. Most of my friends in school were girls. I know – shocking that a gay man in high school in the 70s would have mostly female friends. There wasn’t really any discernible competition/meanness/bullying. I would guess that it was because none of my female (or male) friends had the slightest interest in dating. We were all smart and quite capable of entertaining ourselves. Once you remove the quest for mating, people of all sorts seem much nicer.

]]> By: spazzm http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480067 spazzm Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480067 Identity politics are false. Identity politics are false.

]]> By: Nadreck http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480073 Nadreck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480073 When's the equivalent book coming out for boys? When’s the equivalent book coming out for boys?

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480076 Brainspore Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480076 The problem I see is that people who are mean to others are probably the least likely to bother reading a book like this. The problem I see is that people who are mean to others are probably the least likely to bother reading a book like this.

]]> By: Antinous / Moderator http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480077 Antinous / Moderator Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480077 <i>When's the equivalent book coming out for boys?</i> Lord of the Flies When’s the equivalent book coming out for boys?

Lord of the Flies

]]> By: Daemon http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480085 Daemon Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480085 And the reasons can probably be all boiled down to exactly the same reasons guys are mean to each other... And the reasons can probably be all boiled down to exactly the same reasons guys are mean to each other…

]]> By: StRevAlex http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480086 StRevAlex Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480086 "Misogynist: A man who hates women as much as women hate each other and themselves." I think Mencken said that; at any rate, it's quite true. “Misogynist: A man who hates women as much as women hate each other and themselves.”

I think Mencken said that; at any rate, it’s quite true.

]]> By: nosehat http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480101 nosehat Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480101 <i>It includes quotes and inspirational stories from famous role models who have had firsthand experience with girl meanness, such as Jane Wiedlin, founding member of the Go-Go's; Jenny Conlee, bandmember of The Decemberists; and Tegan, bandmember of Tegan and Sara.</i> I love how being a band member makes you an expert in ... pretty much anything else! :) It includes quotes and inspirational stories from famous role models who have had firsthand experience with girl meanness, such as Jane Wiedlin, founding member of the Go-Go’s; Jenny Conlee, bandmember of The Decemberists; and Tegan, bandmember of Tegan and Sara.

I love how being a band member makes you an expert in … pretty much anything else!

:)

]]> By: Enormo http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480875 Enormo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480875 @#7 <i>"We are not enslaved by patriarchal society"? I disagree. We are brainwashed by the patriarchal society to please men, at varying degrees of self-destructiveness. Programmed to be happy as long as we're desired by men.</i> And men are not programmed to revolve their lives around being desired by women? Tell that to any kid who saw their father five days out of the month because they were compulsed to be as professionally successful as possible. @#7
“We are not enslaved by patriarchal society”? I disagree. We are brainwashed by the patriarchal society to please men, at varying degrees of self-destructiveness. Programmed to be happy as long as we’re desired by men.

And men are not programmed to revolve their lives around being desired by women? Tell that to any kid who saw their father five days out of the month because they were compulsed to be as professionally successful as possible.

]]> By: Sekino http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480110 Sekino Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480110 Sounds potentially insightful for both girls and boys. As far as I remember, the stupid meanies were evenly distributed between genders. I don't think peer pressure/competition is a mystery. We buy into the idea that nice people are meek and always end up losing, that kind people are boring wallflowers ("nice girls/guys finish last"). We reward the vixens and the 'bad boys' with our attention, desire and envy. Being popular is more celebrated than being genuine. We ought to teach both our girls and boys that standing alone and being rejected by peers is not the worst thing that can happen. Betraying your own personality, true friends and itegrity is. We need to stop seeking others' blind acceptance so damn desperately. Being honest, fair and sincere might not be openly rewarded, but it is what you carry within you day after day. Sounds potentially insightful for both girls and boys. As far as I remember, the stupid meanies were evenly distributed between genders.

I don’t think peer pressure/competition is a mystery. We buy into the idea that nice people are meek and always end up losing, that kind people are boring wallflowers (“nice girls/guys finish last”). We reward the vixens and the ‘bad boys’ with our attention, desire and envy. Being popular is more celebrated than being genuine.

We ought to teach both our girls and boys that standing alone and being rejected by peers is not the worst thing that can happen. Betraying your own personality, true friends and itegrity is. We need to stop seeking others’ blind acceptance so damn desperately. Being honest, fair and sincere might not be openly rewarded, but it is what you carry within you day after day.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480377 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480377 Huh...I always thought Tegan was the mean one... Huh…I always thought Tegan was the mean one…

]]> By: Felix Mitchell http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480404 Felix Mitchell Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480404 as interesting as your story sounds, johnphantom, it's not cool to post an advert with little connection to Mark's post as interesting as your story sounds, johnphantom, it’s not cool to post an advert with little connection to Mark’s post

]]> By: spocko http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480167 spocko Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480167 Sekino: That was a wonderful comment. Really, really well said. Thank you. Sekino: That was a wonderful comment. Really, really well said.
Thank you.

]]> By: Jerril http://boingboing.net/2009/04/30/girls-against-girls.html#comment-480427 Jerril Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-480427 #24 Gaudeamus, It's interesting hearing your story, because the order of my experiences were reversed - I was picked on by the other girls from about grade two all the way to early highschool. My view, all the way through school, was at least if a boy didn't like you, he'd hit you or steal your toy or something, and therefore let you know about it, instead of being NICE to your face and mocking you fiercely behind your back. #24 Gaudeamus, It’s interesting hearing your story, because the order of my experiences were reversed – I was picked on by the other girls from about grade two all the way to early highschool.

My view, all the way through school, was at least if a boy didn’t like you, he’d hit you or steal your toy or something, and therefore let you know about it, instead of being NICE to your face and mocking you fiercely behind your back.

]]>