Avoid toxic people

Uland

Phikus- I don’t recall stating that people don’t “exchange energy”. If that’s another way of saying that people influence one another, I do believe that. If it’s some kind of fluffy self-help speak that has every exchange as “positive” or “negative”, then I don’t.
Because I’m not a child.
Think about the multi-varied “kinds” of exchanges people can have with one another, our capacities for subtle or mysterious or profound exchanges that can’t be called “positive” or “negative”. It seems to me the only kinds of people that would be interested in such base descriptions of, er, human interaction as we know it, are those concerned with “getting theirs”, for lack of a better phrase.
Yes, I do feel these people “poison” the room.
If, on the other hand, Glasers’ whole point is to avoid interactions with people that you just don’t get along with, well, thanks. I’ll keep that in mind. Profound….
But yeah, anybody who really walks around thinking that all those “vampires” are just, like, making it hard for them to feel good, fuck them.

Anonymous

I’m pretty sure I was one of those horrible toxic, self-destructive mess-ups for years. Somehow, a few people put up with it. I think they probably saved my life. I’ve resolved to put up with a bit of it myself now that I’m no longer (I hope) that kind of person. As long as you’re not being an enabler type, it’s a true act of goodness–like giving blood.

Phikus

Darue@~102: No one suggested there are just two types of people being discussed here. My own take, simply restated, is that there are people who may leave an unhealthy aftertaste, people who leave you feeling elated, and the rest of us. When you make generalizations about behavior, you are bound to distill people into a small number of groups.

Now, no discussion of toxic people should go without without mentioning Plastic People. You decide which bucket they belong in.

Plastic people
Oh, baby, now you’re such a drag
Plastic people
Oh, baby, now you’re such a drag

A fine little girl, she waits for me
She’s as plastic as she can be
She paints her face with plastic goo
And wrecks her hair with some shampoo

Plastic people
Oh, baby, now you’re such a drag
Plastic people
Oh, baby, now you’re such a drag

Take a day and walk around!
Watch the Nazis run your town!
Then go home and check yourself!
You think we’re singing ’bout someone else!

But you’re Plastic People
Oh, Baby, now
You’re such a drag

We see a neon moon above
I searched for years, I found no love
I’m sure that love will never be
A product of Plasticity

Antinous / Moderator

Plastic People emit toxic fumes when heated to a high temperature.

Uland

For the record, Glaser is brilliant, but that doesn’t mean he’s immune to really stupid, self-serving notions, especially given his status. I can just see someone getting excommunicated from his inner circle for not “nourishing” him…

Anonymous

Sometimes “toxic” people are like pure poison and being around them clearly makes you feel bad. However, sometimes toxic people are more like drugs: you feel good when you’re around them but your health or well-feeling suffers at other times. As a simplistic example, someone you have good sex with but the relationship is dysfunctional and full of problems at other times.

Phikus

Antinous: There are really a couple of distinct issues raised by this conversation. A sort of first impression check, as described in the original post and well delineated by Parabelico@~132, and long term toxicity cutting-of-losses which I and Bill Burroughs described above.

The kind of person who would label someone who put them through law school as toxic while embracing the first bimbo who made him / her feel attractive and interesting in a long time is in my book a shallow and callous asshat. If you have a long-term relationship, all other factors come into play and it only becomes scenario #2, as I previously described, with a lot of water under the bridge. Regardless of what someone may have done for you, they have no right to be abusive. Sure, you have to take the good with the bad in any long term relationship, but there is a fine line defining what is abuse and what isn’t, and you have to draw it yourself and should not do so lightly.

Now I would like to address the first scenario, if I may. In this context, the implied caveat to the originally posted truism would seem to be: “All things being equal, when you first meet someone…” I have met people I could not spend 5 minutes with, and others I could spend my entire lifetime in the company of. The gentle advice that seems to be implied here is that first impressions of this sort are often correct, so perhaps you should take a moment to listen to your gut after meeting someone you might consider becoming involved more intimately with to any degree.

We have to make choices in life as to whom we take along for the ride. When this choice is made foolishly, it can have disastrous consequences. Haven’t you ever met the couple who really should NOT be together? Separately these people may be just great, and paired with someone more compatible, they would not have so many issues keep cropping up. But they don’t realize that their pairing is toxic, and they tend to make melodramatic scenes wherever they go, or create unhealthy modes of behavior that often spill out and affect everyone in their social circle.

So this simple kind of litmus test can help you realize, especially to folks like me who can tend to be all embracing, that even if you are attracted to someone, or see that they may have something to offer, they might not be harmonious with your personality type, so choose wisely. That is all.

Anonymous

This advice borders on the nauseatingly narcissistic. “It’s all about me!! They’re not good for ME!!”

Ever heard of helping someone when they’re down? or feeling tired because you’ve just done too much that day? Or they made you think about stuff you’d prefer to bury under the rug, like your excessive drinking?

And, what about assessing one’s effect on others? Can you really say at the end of the day: I helped that person. I made a difference. I made (or kept) a friendship.

sheesh.

zuzu

I also think there’s a major missing piece here with how introverted or extroverted you are. Some people just need socialization to “energize” themselves, and some find pretty much any social experience “draining,” which is not the same thing as unenjoyable, or even, paradoxically, unexhilarating.

I just wanted to ditto this. Even with people I really like, socialization is an active process I find draining, and I absolutely need several contiguous waking hours alone every day to “recharge”, or else I become a grouch who cuts everyone to the quick. According to pop psychology this identifies me as “introverted”.

Conversely, I know many people who if they don’t socialize with anyone in person for too long of a time, they start bouncing off the walls. These are apparently the “extroverts”.

The tricky part is navigating the conflicting demands between an introvert who needs to be left alone and an extrovert who needs to socialize.

antiamish

i’m feeling energized that so many other people were as annoyed by this as i was.

IWood

That is good advice, and something I just recently figured out for myself. I hadn’t been hanging around with an acquaintance of mine for quite awhile, but not with any deliberate intent…I just sort of drifted away.

When I stopped and paid some attention to that, I realized that it had to do with her weird, low-energy, I’m-on-a-new-medication-this-week-so-I’m-all-fucked-up vibe. Constantly wrestling with one demon or another, she was a sort of black hole.

I liked her…it just wasn’t good for me to be around her.

Which is not to say that I’m not an energy-sucking vortex from time to time, myself…but I tend to stay in my apartment and keep people beyond the edges of my accretion disk when that happens.

olmsteader

This is awesome! A totally scientific and proved method for judging people without any thought required. One small flaw with it though. If I go running by myself and come home with less energy then I left with, I am toxificating myself?

JadedLion

Please bear in mind that some people lose energy from socializing, period. However, I can only speak for myself and my daughter, and point to a few books and links online. If we’re wandering into these sort of waters here, better make sure folks don’t misdiagnose the situation…

http://healing.about.com/od/empathic/a/hsp.htm

alowishus

I’m definitely toxic.

zootboing

One of my favorite psychology texts from college gave a great definition for Extrovert/Introvert:

An extrovert gets mental and emotional “recharging” from being with and interacting with other people.
Parties, group sports, telephone conversations all invigorate and refresh them.
Introverts, on the other hand, while they like people just fine, need time alone to recharge their mental and emotional batteries. They often prefer reading, solo video games or a long run alone to unwind.

A lot of thinkers and geeks are introverts. My husband is a sweet brilliant guy with a lot of friends, but I go into our weekends knowing that he’ll need to go on his daily runs and spend some time playing computer games alone to feel fully relaxed. And if we need to book time at a party or with my family, he’ll need double that.
He likes people and actually is far better at keeping in touch with people than I am, even though I am the more extroverted of the two of us.

So I think that’s an important qualification to think about BEFORE you apply the “If I’m tired after dealing with X, X must be “toxic”" litmus.

Jenn2D2

That can be good advice – if you’re just centered on what you get out of the relationship. If you’re friends with someone for a long time, sometimes being around them isn’t all about you – I have a friend struggling with depression. It sometimes bums me out to be around her. According to this, I should let that 20 year friendship go because she’s not providing me with an uplift right now. Sorry, but real friendship is a bit more complex than that.

Rossy

Maybe you’re so exhausted because you’re putting on an act for people instead of just being yourself. YES THIS IS A PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE MESSAGE TO YOU, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

Anonymous

Is socializing zero-sum?

Gilbert Wham

#59: What you said.

SamSam

I usually feel less energy after sex. Does this mean my partners have all been toxic?

shadowfirebird

I immediately distrust any advice that is this dogmatic.

For a start, someone may be “toxic” to you but enervating to someone else. The criteria is entirely subjective.

Tell you what mate, how about you let us decide whether our friends are worth us spending our energy on or not. Okay?

Anonymous

The author of this piece is the one who sounds like a real asshole. Life is not all puppy dogs and ice cream. Not everyone is hardwired to be a bouncy bundle of joy whose only goal is to make you happy.

Some of the most interesting people I know are mercurial, exhausting, and sometimes infuriating. Sometimes you need a hiatus from them to maintain your sanity or avoid throwing a punch at them, but I can’t imagine anything more boring than spending my time with people who are hung up on only sending out ‘positive energy’, whatever that means.

wolfiesma

So weird. At the moment I have no idea if I am an extravert or an introvert. I think my personality changes alot depending on my mood. My tolerance for other people really goes up and down, too. I try to fortify myself as best I can for the inevitable draining interactions. Mostly, I put off seeing anybody for as long as possible, but I’m not really introverted. I don’t know. All these false dichotomies…

Antinous / Moderator

Extremely stripped-down introvert/extravert quiz: Do you like parties where you don’t know almost everybody?

And it’s not about being shy. I’m an introvert but also quite aggressive. I walk into a party and just think, “Who the hell are all these people? Where’s the cat so that I can take it to the back bedroom and get away from them?”

Anonymous

Ummm, I always feel less energised after socializing. I think it’s called being an introvert.

nicheplayer

This is clearly an extension of the Austin Powers Test, developed in 1997. Relationship viability depends on the answer to the question “Do I make you horny?”

Anonymous

I am hell of toxic.

nutbastard

@#2

People do have these kinds of reactions to certain other people – so from the get-go this is purely subjective stuff. Emotions can’t be boiled down to a hard, exact science (yet), thus the rather arbitrary, and significantly differing methods employed by psychologists everywhere.

@#1

“Constantly wrestling with one demon or another, she was a sort of black hole.”

Just got done with one of those myself. As a good person, it’s tough to not keep giving things second (and third, and fourth) chances, especially when it seems that the persons darkened aura is being generated by things beyond their control – but then, the perpetually depressed self-victimizers tend to set things up so they at least look that way, because they know on some level, that it works.

lorenzofarris

So, what if you feel energized, and they are drained, you energy vampire. >:(=

Phikus

Hey Arkizzle! Long time no see. (You are one of the folks I always get good vibes from, btw, even over teh internets. =D)

There was this guy I met; new to town and desperate to make new friends, so I reached out to him. I tend to take risks like that. I introduced him to all my friends and hung out with him for a while, but then we all seemed to notice this pattern that we all felt really drained after he would spend any time with us. He always seemed to have the same thread going on in his conversations, and though it was something we all often had interest in talking about: how our civil liberties were diminishing etc., his tack on it was always so unwavering and exhausting that it became hard to spend any time with the guy. I can’t describe it in any other way. It was not the words he used, but something incessant about his presence. We all felt physically and emotionally drained if we spent any amount of time with this guy. As it became clear that people were avoiding him, he got rather belligerent and nasty, showing up unannounced and drunk at my place at 3am, leaving obnoxious and mostly incoherent voice messages, etc. He would apologize later, when sober, but after repeating the same behavior again and again, it began to ring hollow.

Eventually I moved out of the place I was living and got a new phone number with no forward and have thankfully not run into the guy since. I hate to be this harsh, and though it may seem passive-aggressive, I had determined there was nothing more I could have done for this guy. He was toxic, and had surrounded himself with such a defensive barrier that no one could talk sense into him, although we did try on several occasions to put a mirror to his behavior, but he just didn’t get it.

Sometimes the change you make in yourself is to choose to not be around people who are unhealthy to your well-being, for whatever reason. There are many types of abuse. Some of them are very subtle. You have a right to disassociate yourself from the source of any and all abuse.

Lord_Humungous_Head_Veins

Apparently me and all my friends are toxic. Mutants unite?

I don’t think I’d want to be around someone where I’m always exhilarated after hanging with them. I’d rather just relax :p

TroofSeeker

Well said, Anon #150.
I used to work in a reform school for… at the time they called them ‘emotionally retarted’ boys. My entire purpose of being there was to protect life and limb of old Mrs. Johnson. It was wild. Most of them went off most days. My favorite kid, Myles, would try to kill me every day with a pencil to the chest. He’d cool down and we’d be friends again. Good times. Somehow, tho, it wasn’t emotionally draining to me. Maybe because I didn’t have to get up in the middle of the night and listen to the wining.

pinehead

It is good advice, in a broad context. You still have to be able to think for yourselves, people. Don’t sit there and bitch because Pesco isn’t holding your squidgy little hands and explaining every conceivable exception you can think of. You must think for yourselves at some point.

William S. Burroughs said it a bit more bluntly in his “words of advice for young people,” where advised simply, “avoid fnck-ups. We all know the type; anything they have anything to do with, no matter how good it sounds, always turns into a disaster.”

V

William S. Burroughs said it pretty well:

“Avoid fuckups. You all know the type. Anything they have anything to do with, no matter how good it sounds, turns into a disaster.

Do not offer sympathy to the mentally ill. Tell them firmly, “I am not paid to listen to this drivel. You are a terminal fool.”

(Words of Advice for Young People)

Anonymous

this is silly. As an introvert on the Myers-Briggs, spending time with other people de-energizes me, regardless of how amazing that person is. I gain my energy from being alone. What ridiculous pseudo-science to imply that if someone saps my energy, they are bad for me.

mhwang

I don’t think this works for introverts like me~

I like spending time with my friends, but after hanging out with them, I’m usually less energized and tired, if only because I honestly need my alone time to recharge.

I’m always happy afterwards, but “exhilaration” and “energized” are the wrong words for it.

Takuan

arrr! KILL THE WEAK!

gtron

not doing so well thus far on this one…
so if I spend time with someone who challenges my ego (rightly) and I go home and have to have a think about my behavior, then I should avoid that person? So i should only seek out folks who stroke my ego? what a bunch of arses we’d all be

Anonymous

This is pathetic. Simplistic, shallow, subjective and meaningless. If you think people can be meaningfully categorised in this way or you need something like this to help you make decisions about who to associate with you have a problem. Yes, sometimes this might work well. Sometimes just about everything will work well. Sometimes you will win money in a casino. But the fundamental problem here is that it assumes the other person is at fault. Perhaps they’re not. Perhaps there is no problem with anyone. Or perhaps it’s you. Perhaps they are really nice, really interesting, really etc. But perhaps they don’t like sport very much. Or perhaps they’re coming down with swine flu (after associating with a swine like you). Or perhaps they’re having their period. Or perhaps your toxic breath is making them feel ill. Or perhaps they’re all nourished out bolstering the egos of vampires like you and just don’t have any more to give. Or perhaps you’re an arrogant, self-centred, ignorant, boring, empty, irrational, bigoted, superficial sh*t and they really struggled to stay awake and be polite in your totally toxic company. In fact if you think this technique is a good idea I would say there’s a good chance you are like that. (I’m now reminded of people I’ve met in the past who I’m sure would think this was really great – and every one of the people that come to mind was obnoxious.) Anyway, I think this is as offensive and dumb as all those exhortations to only surround yourself with positive people. The world is a more complex place than that. Real life, real people are both good and bad. Not everything is positive. Why pretend otherwise? Avoiding all negatives is itself a negative. If you can’t face that and deal with it, what are you going to do when you have problems in your life and need some help and support? All your positive “friends” will evaporate and you’ll get what you deserve. And as for the whole concept of “toxic” or “nourishing”. WTF? Why is there an endless stream of meaningless drivel like this? I’m just surprised the original writer didn’t contrive to use the exceptionally annoying and totally gratuitous “experience” word…

Another Aaron

Okay, Beelzebuddy cracked me up.

Negativity and “being grounded in the real world” are not the same thing.

That’s just something negative folks spout as a defense mechanism.

And with that, I’m off work. YAAAYYYY!!!!

Anonymous

Milton Glaser is a very talented man with some very interesting ideas, and this is a surprisingly shallow and egocentric concept. I am sincerely disappointed Milt!

wolfiesma

Oh my God, I never go to parties, Antinous, but if I did I would totally want to hang out with you. So what does that say?

TroofSeeker

‘Kizzle- glad yer back!
Phikus, you’re a man after my own heart. You mentioned a fiance, and toxic couples that shouldn’t be together (TV has a whole genre of sitcoms based on dumbass dads and bitchy moms). Lemme give you the secret of my wonderfully sucessful 33-year marriage: liking is more important than even loving. She’s got to be your best friend. She’s got to “get” you and think you’re funny. You have to respect her opinion and intelligence. You have to want her to have the things she wants. Find things you enjoy together, and do them. She gets 60% of TV choices.

A couple basic rules that Cat and I abide by:
1. No name calling or insulting. Ever.
2. We never say “Shut up!” in my house.
Cherish your lover. Do sweet things now and then- stupid little things, like stealing flowers for her. Say nice things (“You look hot in those pants!”) Hug her while she’s cooking yer dinner, thank her with a kiss for every meal.
Marriage can be the most wonderful human institution, when done right. Done wrong, it quickly becomes toxic.
Oh, and marry a girl that has a little more sexual appetite than you do. d8^)
I wish you two the bliss that I live in.
Troof

wolfiesma

Well…. I think its a great idea to notice how you feel during and after meeting with different people and have some control over how much and when you see them… but I don’t think its fair to outright label another person as toxic. Think of it like you have bad chemistry with the person and it doesn’t have to be anybody’s fault, but if it isn’t working for you then maybe you should step back a little or a lot and not put yourself in situations that are going to be too draining/dangerous to yer psyche.

Anonymous

Does this mean my 5-year-old is toxic? I mean, adoration and delight are frequent results, but so is exhaustion…

Anonymous

It’s the opposite for me – if my associate gets me worked up and tense with energy, I’d say it was toxic, but if the associate calms me down and relaxes me, I have more of a good time. In this high-intensity world I live in, more energy borders on manicness!

dculberson

“So i should only seek out folks who stroke my ego?”

Well, I suppose, if that’s what you choose to call it..

Phikus

Antinous: Honesty is never something that I eschew, personally. Most of my friends are brutally honest when the need arises.

All I can say is that until you experience the presence of such a toxic person in your life, you won’t really get it. And yes, that makes it totally subjective.

Xeno

Technically i think this means I’m allergic to human beings. Me and my wife are always drained after social outings regardless of the human.

Anonymous

There is a valid point to this article; BUT -

I have to add that this type of ‘meme’ has been used by abusive groups (AKA CULTS) to alienate people from society in general (family members, etc.) and make people more psychologically dependent upon the group. I know this because ‘I was there’…

pinehead

Nice to see I’m not the only one who remembered old Burroughs here. ;)

TheCrawNotTheCraw

A former girlfriend had me completely energized.

And she was (also) completely toxic.

So you may mean well, but your advice is so-so. No hard feelings.

Anonymous

This is a gross over simplification of human relations. Most people are mixed bags of toxicity/positive energy with differing amounts daily depending upon the situations that arise in their lives.

mypalmike

To those asking about their young children: Yes, your young children are toxic. Not just to you, but to everyone around you.

Purly

Oh wait, people aren’t taking this advice as a joke?

Moriarty

As beings with biological imperatives to sleep occasionally, aren’t we all going to be more tired after spending a day doing pretty much anything?

I also think there’s a major missing piece here with how introverted or extroverted you are. Some people just need socialization to “energize” themselves, and some find pretty much any social experience “draining,” which is not the same thing as unenjoyable, or even, paradoxically, unexhilarating.

I will say that all other things being equal, it’s not bad advice. If particular people take it out of you especially, don’t hitch your wagon to them. Just don’t become a recluse because you’re holding your friends up to standards that no one could ever satisfy.

Another Aaron

Ditto to everything Phikus said.

It just seems common sense to me.

Anonymous

‘If, on the way home, you’re thinking “Christ. Why the hell do I do this to myself?” then that person/relationship is pretty toxic. Move along — stop feeling obligated to spend time with people who you don’t truly enjoy being around, in good times or in bad.’

So I should avoid (almost) everyone everywhere all the time? ‘Cause that’s my reaction to 95+% of humanity, including almost my entire family and absolutely everyone I work with.

sk8rboi69

I would agree that this advice needs to be taken with a laaaarge grain of salt.

@#12: I’m an introvert as well. I love to be with my friends and I love to be social in general. But, these things take energy and I need regular ‘alone time’ to recharge my batteries.

People that leave me energized are rare. I don’t value them any more or any less than my other friends. I don’t think the other friends are more toxic than the others.

Cowicide

In other words, if the bitch doesn’t put out on the first date… she’s toxic.

ethanol

Wow, that’s completely appalling.

“Never visit sick or elderly people, I mean what a complete downer. If your friends are struggling with depression, addiction, or a bad relationship, you should drop them like a hot rock. Why should you waste your beautiful mind on people like that?” What an asshole.

EH

I am a little surprised by the responses here and how so many are so excited to relay their own stories that have nothing to do with the post. “I like pie.”

There is a fundamental flaw in Glaser’s reasoning: deriving meaning from “feeling.” In short, what he is saying is:

1. Note how you “feel” after being around someone.
2. Decide whether it’s good or bad.
3. Pin the whole thing on the other person.

Sociopathic, and just another instance of extroverts beating up on introverts. Ever the same.

Anonymous

Geez, I guess alot of you here need someone to think for you. This toxic people rule doesn’t have to be black or white. Of course you wouldn’t want to let a depressed friend go for the sole fact that they’re depressed. But what if their depression is the result of conscious (maybe unconscious)choices to be that way. Half of the depressed people i’ve known (myself included), get into this spiral where the depression becomes one of the facets of your personality that you have to keep affirming. Most everyone has a choice as to whether or not they’re going to work on the issue.

I let go of a toxic friend that I had been friends with for 15 years. With him I did a pro’s/con’s list, with the con’s greatly outnumbering the pro’s. I’m doing much better in life, work and relationships since making that choice.

Also, i’m introverted by nature so it’s difficult to say I feel more energized after hanging out with someone. I would say for an introvert the choice should be, do you feel better or worse after hanging out with said person.

And the severity of introversion is a choice too IMO. I’ve known a couple of public speakers that are self-proclaimed introverts. Even though they’re awesome speakers and are good socializers, they still feel that drain of energy when they deal with people.

/Tangent

Anonymous

Anon, well said and I agree 100%. I am the same way. There are very negative toxic people who just make you feel bad about yourself after spending time with them. These are the people you need to disassociate yourself with or you will forever feel down and drained after spending time with them.

Anonymous

Burroughs himself being a mentally ill fuckup I would probably enjoy being around, the irony… its… cutting… off… my… air.supply…

Takuan

hey stupid: read the byline

cycle23

I had a lot of turkey and pie when I hung out with my buddy then I had to take a nap. MY FRIENDS SUCK!

Parababelico

I love this thread, great post, better discussion.

Once I was casually talking (after dinner, a couple of beers and some pot) with a friend and she was talking about the universe, like, “crazy how the universe conspired to create us, all the odds were against it, what a miracle that we exist, isn’t that so amazing” etc.

I tend to think this kind of talk is all self-centered silly gnostic new age bullshit, so I just replied, “sure it is, but then again it’s only us, humans, in the whole universe, who find that ‘amazing’. No one else or no thing else cares…” to which she replied, aggressively, “I don’t care about that, I wasn’t talking about that high philosophy stuff”. To my own surprise, I reacted to that remark by bursting into tears.

She’s still my friend, sort of.

So, who’s the vampire?

Mark Temporis

Anton LaVey wrote about this in “The Satanic Bible”; he referred to the type as “Psychic Vampires”.

Roast Beef

To 2 and 6: I am exhausted after a vigorous bike ride or love session, but I am exhausted in a way that energizes me. Inside of my tiredness, I feel lifted and lightened, even if I’m too fatigued to get off the couch. (Endorphins–try them, you’ll like them! :)

If, however, I’ve just spent several hours at a horrible job dealing with crappy people, I’ve probably expended fewer calories, but my exhaustion is draining and consuming. I can barely muster the fortitude to drag my ass up the stairs. It’s all I can do to crack a beer and turn on the computer, and I’ll probably fall asleep with the light still on.

Is the difference a little clearer now?

And #14: Really? No, really? Read the top post and come back and explain where you got this: So i should only seek out folks who stroke my ego?, because the article on my screen avers nothing of the kind.

Rasmaestro

Shallow self-help paperback thinking.

Are you full enough of yourself now?

HotPepperMan

Most of us are not egocentric enough and spend a shi-ite load of time on earth feeling obligated to spend time with certain people. Regardless of comments here, you ARE egocentric. The article is very correct.

From my very good friend SD is the best quote that I use as a mantra in my life:

“98% of people will disappoint you. The previous figure is an underestimate as it is probably more.”

Machineintheghost

Memo to all parents of young children: Are your kids toxic? Do you feel energized or more tired after a day spent changing diapers and waking up in the middle of the night to lull them back to sleep? Upon reflection, you may realize that this tiny creature is not a bundle of joy, but really is an ENERGY VAMPIRE to be avoided at all costs.

Roast Beef

#26 me: yikes to unintentional html. Was attempting to quote #14.

So i should only seek out folks who stroke my ego?

Hitting preview neither energizes nor drains me, but sometimes I just don’t do it.

Tzctlp

Really ….:

“If you are more tired then you have been poisoned. If you have more energy you have been nourished.”

So this “rule” (which should not be black and white according to a kind soul in this thread, in which case how could you call it a rule?) uses 2 criteria that are completely arbitrary and subjective, (levels of “energy”, whatever that is, and levels of stimulation with “poisoning” and “nourishment” in opposite, equally hazy and undefined, extremes of the scale) in order to pigeon-hole people around you.

Do we really need this kind of new agey quackery spread around?

cwclifford

After spending some time reading all these comments, I now feel both a little exhausted and exhilarated.

This bit of advice seems to say relationships should not all be considered on the “what’s in it for me” factor. I have a lot of high-energy friends and frankly they wear me the eff out! They CRAVE attention and can’t sit still long enough to dig into a deep convo and will often get distracted by very shiny objects.

This argument is interesting but too simplistic to apply to all social situations.

Phikus

ULAND@~02: Ok, so you don’t think people exchange energy in their interactions, and yet you felt immediately “poisoned” by this post. FAIL.

If you really believe dealing with people that rub you the wrong way is good for you, please simply post your email address and phone number with area code here. I’ll wait. Perhaps then you will learn what “adolescent, spoiled bullshit” truly is.

To the people who seem to want to make this introvert vs. extrovert: You have missed the point entirely. I have plenty of friends who are both and none of them approach toxicity levels. Please move on. Thank you.

Felton

So when is the government going to start rounding up these toxic, energy-sucking mutants?

HotPepperMan

#31 see my comment at #28

gollux

Exilirating isn’t necessarily a good metric. I had this friend in high school that left you feeling exhilarated, but it was a 50/50 draw that somewhere along the way you would have a run-in with someone. Fun to know, dangerous to be around. And he is still fun to know, with a parole officer in the background.

Anonymous

I find this post to be very true and accurate. Many of the negative comments are focused on the literal interpretation of the words, which is too bad because there is truth in them, even if a funny retort can be teased out of them.

I find that toxic people do drain me quite a bit, even if it does not zap my physical energy as much as my spirit. I have always used the same basic equation, but instead of “energy” I think of “nourishment”. It seems some friends have the same appeal as junk food – At first it satisfies a craving, but soon after I feel sick.

Parababelico

the full advice:

SOME PEOPLE ARE TOXIC AVOID THEM.
This is a subtext of number one. There was in the sixties a man named Fritz Perls who was a gestalt therapist. Gestalt therapy derives from art history, it proposes you must understand the â€˜wholeâ€™ before you can understand the details. What you have to look at is the entire culture, the entire family and community and so on. Perls proposed that in all relationships people could be either toxic or nourishing towards one another. It is not necessarily true that the same person will be toxic or nourishing in every relationship, but the combination of any two people in a relationship produces toxic or nourishing consequences. And the important thing that I can tell you is that there is a test to determine whether someone is toxic or nourishing in your relationship with them. Here is the test: You have spent some time with this person, either you have a drink or go for dinner or you go to a ball game. It doesnâ€™t matter very much but at the end of that time you observe whether you are more energised or less energised. Whether you are tired or whether you are exhilarated. If you are more tired then you have been poisoned. If you have more energy you have been nourished. The test is almost infallible and I suggest that you use it for the rest of your life.

http://www.miltonglaser.com/pages/milton/essays/es3.html

Kimrod

Would Richard Simmons be considered as “exhilarating?”

My toxic friends are exhilarating. They make me want to kill them or cause great bodily harm, at times.

Sometime their mundane thoughts crack me up and are uplifting, even though I am their personal emotional tampon.

And what about our pets? If a dog is having a dog-day afternoon, you know…sleep, eat, lick my dick…is that a bad thing to be around and why do we love them so, if they aren’t making us feel exhilarated 24/7? How about cats and rats?

redconsensus

This has to be the single most inane thing I have ever seen posted on this site.

Mister Mensa

I would definitely agree there are toxic people among us who sap the positive energy out of those around them. The older I get, the more I want to surround myself with optimistic souls who have a “can-do” attitude. In my view, negativity is just another word for “giving up.” A detox diet is all the rage these days, and it shouldn’t be just for the body!

pmh

Right on Gtron,

Some of the most interesting and rewarding relationships I have are with people who have differing opinions on most subjects than I do. The challenge of debating ideas can be exhausting but is also rewarding & gives me the opportunity to reevaluate when my opinions may need to change.

Spending all your time with people who are like you are is a recipe for monoculture.

Also, as someone who has helped a few friends through depressions, I find those here who avoid the mentally ill shallow to the point of transparency. Keep on avoiding anyone who “poisons” you, you twits. The day your turn comes you will find yourselves abandoned by all your “friends”.

Anonymous

Troof, that is one of the most romantic love notes I’ve ever read — because it’s not addressed TO her, it’s ABOUT her — telling all of us, utter strangers,how much you love her. And it’s not all hearts and flowers — it’s that you really, genuinely LIKE her, and what she does to enrich your life, as well as love and desire her.

May you have many more decades of happiness — lots of people on this planet search their whole lives and never find what you have so obviously found.

This, folks, is the epitome of a relationship that shouldn’t ever be cast away. Treasure the ones who make your life glow.

Keith

Roast Beef points out a distinction that some people seem to be missing: there’s a difference between being mentally exhausted by putting up with a person’s BS and being tired from having expended energy.

Obviously, if I spend the evening having dinner/going to a movie/dancing with friends, I’ll be tired when I get home, but all warm and relaxed because I had a good time with people I liked and who inspire in me trust, warmth, compassion and all those other little warm fuzzy feelings (maybe even a little creativity now and again). Other times, You come home and feel drained. Not just tired, but as if your soul’s about a quart low. Something is amiss and you would otherwise feel frustrated and put upon, if not for being too exhausted to even think about it. And that’s the point of this article: learn to tell the difference, so you don’t waste your time with people who only take from you emotionally.

Glaser just put it in a way that didn’t sound like fluff and new age crap. But apparently, some people need sugar coating or their feefees get all hurty.

(Or, they recognize in their own relationships that they are either surrounded by emotional vampires, or are themselves toxic in the company of everyone they meet).

JoshuaZ

If I’m not tired after spending time with people then they aren’t very interesting people. I should be exhausted after spending time with friends.

Phikus

*92

Phikus

V@~11: In Words of Advice for Young People (from his own recordings and the musical version by Material on the album Hallucination Engine) Burroughs also says:

If, after having been exposed to someone’s presence, you feel as though you’ve lost a quart of plasma… avoid that presence. You need it like you need pernicious anemia!
Don’t like to hear the word “vampire” around here anymore… Trying to improve our public image! / Build up a kindly, avuncular, benevolent image…

I think this says it best, and avoids the shortcomings in logic that several have pointed out above.

Unfortunately, I know all too well how appropriate this anecdotal wisdom is right now, currently being stalked by a toxic ex. It is all too real.

Anonymous

Interesting post and discussion.

I think the advice is sound and even commonsensical (misery loves company etc).

Also, I think that self-pitying resentment and defeatism have become all but an epidemic mental disorder in the developed world.

But there’s a catch to that advice: what do you do if the “toxic” person happens to be one of your parents or another loved one, for instance?

There’s a scene on “American Splendor” where the real Joyce Brabner complains that Harvey Pekar can be “very depressed, therefore very depressing”. And yet she’s there for him.

So I think there must be a middle ground between shutting the person off your life completely and catering to her/his every self-absorbed mood.

JJR1971

Obviously real life is a bit more nuanced, and I agree with the other introverts here; I can play the extrovert when I have to, but it’s always exhausting and eventually I have to withdraw to re-charge, savor a little quality me-time, etc.

The thing about toxic people is not that they leave you drained emotionally/physically, it’s the hanging around people who are perpetually negative and *this is the important part* utterly self-destructive; People fixated on some past slight or injustice that just can’t seem to get on with their lives, etc. A person I am going to be friends with has to at least show signs of trying to cope, trying to better themselves. Those that wallow in self-pity and won’t lift a finger to help themselves, sorry…you’ve got to care enough about yourself first before anyone can really help you.

I used to be that way myself for a time until I finally got sick of myself, kicked myself in the ass, and started doing something to fix my life.

When I stopped obsessing about dating and “swore off” women in grad school, naturally I suddenly had more dates than I knew what to do with…life’s just frickin’ weird that way.

I just wish I had the confidence I have now back when I was 18-20…

TroofSeeker

Pinehead- William is the younger Burroughs (Ref:ERB).

If we cut the people out of our lives that leave us a little drained, and only associate with those that energize us, don’t we become the energy vampires?
I think an important part of being a good friend is being a sounding board, the devil’s advocate, a shoulder to cry on, or just a pair of ears sometimes. The emotion exhaustion strengthens us just as physical exertion does. You come back stronger.

Narual

Didn’t this guy go to Shiz? I could have sworn I heard a similar attitude singing last time I saw Wicked:

“The trouble with schools is, they always try to teach the wrong lesson. Believe me, I’ve been kicked out of enough of them to know. They want you to become less callow, less shallow, but I say: “Why invite stress in?” Stop studying strife and learn to live the unexamined life!

“Dancing through life, skimming the surface, gliding where turf is smooth — Life’s more painless for the brainless. Why think too hard, when it’s so soothing dancing through life? No need to tough it when you can sluff it off as I do. Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters — it’s just life so keep dancing through…

“Dancing through life, swaying and sweeping and always keeping cool — life is fraughtless when you’re thoughtless. Those who don’t try never look foolish. Dancing through life, mindless and careless, make sure you’re where less trouble is rife. Woes are fleeting, blows are glancing when you’re dancing through life…”

darue

there’s two kinds of people in the world:

1. those who divide the world into two kinds of people
2. those who don’t

Our suggester on “toxic people” advice sounds like he might be a bit of a psychic vampire, I’ll avoid him whoever the hell he is.

HotPepperMan

#34. Depends if you like your dog licking your dick. Cue joke tag line: “If you give him a bone he might let you”…

teapot7

pinehead at #11 writes:

> William S. Burroughs said it a bit more bluntly in his “words of advice for young people,” where advised simply, “avoid fnck-ups. We all know the type; anything they have anything to do with, no matter how good it sounds, always turns into a disaster.”

Brion Gysin for instance.

skyscraper143

@#29 I was just about to say the same thing!

By this definition, I should ditch my parents, my husband, and my kids. In fact, I should probably be safe and ditch everything except for Hugh Jackman.

WalterBillington

So – make sure you go out with people you don’t like late in the evening, so you’re exhausted at the end, and they subsequently keep away from you. And people you like – see them for a run followed by pecan pie and coffee, around 9:30 – 10:30am.

Dilbert had a cartoon many years ago – on people who always make the “loser choice”. I do just steer round them, and I’m so much the happier.

Don’t be a sappy helper! Be a useful helper!

Anonymous

Think of life as a junior varsity cheerleading squad, and you’re the team captain. If someone you know doesn’t have enough spirit, well, they certainly don’t belong on your squad, do they?

Takuan

ah the free wheeling, free associating and ever so high quality uncensored cess…

Anonymous

Most of you are being far too literal — amazingly black-and-white for the usual ten thousand shades of grey that exist in the BoingBoing spectrum.

It’s good advice — to phrase it somewhat differently, ask yourself on the way home — are you glad you spent time with this person? Even if it’s not exhilarating, and you’re not thinking what a terrific time you had — talking a close friend down from [whatever] can be time well spent — especially because you know that there will be fun times another day — and they’ll talk you down from [whatever] when you need it, too. Visiting old folks, sick coworkers, etc., falls under this category, too.

If, on the way home, you’re thinking “Christ. Why the hell do I do this to myself?” then that person/relationship is pretty toxic. Move along — stop feeling obligated to spend time with people who you don’t truly enjoy being around, in good times or in bad.

Wish there was some way to teach this– unfortunately, it’s something you just have to figure out the hard way.

Anonymous

As most aphorisms, this is good in theory, bad in practice.

In a word: unwonderful.

n

Yeah, the quoted blurb way oversimplifies it. A toxic friend is more like the passive-aggressive person who always tries to put you down, or someone who is constantly using you for favors but never does you any herself. Just ask, are you getting more out of the relationship than you are putting into it?

Regarding the people who are suffering depression and aren’t a lot of fun to be around, I would still dump them if I felt like they were sort of perpetuating their depression by being whiny and not taking steps to get better. Same with any illness, I’d think. Even if it was an old friend who had done lots for me, I’d take a hiatus for a while, or at least not indulge her whining.

There. Look at me, I’m a pop psychologist!@!@~#$!@#

Ernunnos

As many others have said, this is the defining difference between introverts and extroverts. I’m going to say it again, because I find it very offensive when extroverts try to create rules for the rest of us to live by based on how they respond to others. It just makes me want to smack them on the back of the head for their presumption. After which I’d need a nap.

hiyayaywhopee

This is not how I operate. This is not how the people I would want to associate myself with operate.

echolocate chocolate

This sounds like the way an asshole thinks about people they’re just plain incompatible with. It’s never you, it’s always them.

I mean, I get the point, some people are just a drain on you and not worth the time, but toxic? That ain’t a healthy way to think about people.

ArnoDick

Jesus, this isn’t an episode of Mythbusters people.

Like #75 Phikus said, you’ll know these people when you meet them.

Saying “Nrrrr, this ish not objective enough” is maybe missing the point.

The irony is that reading all these people tear down this quote as if it were a faulty math formula is kind of draining.

I’M OUT KIDS

nosehat

I tend to have a fair amount of energy at the start of the day. At the end of the day I get tired. Eventually, I have to fall asleep I’ve lost so much energy!

This has happened every single day of my life, whether I’m around people or not. I must have a really advanced case!

Secret_Life_of_Plants

I think that if you come away with less (fewer) ears than you had before, that’s a problem…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/may/04/vincent-van-gogh-ear

Another Aaron

I kind of took the statement as reading, “If you feel excited/energized/enthused about working on your painting/writing/gardening/something after hanging out with someone, then good. If they suck that desire out of you, avoid them.”

Doesn’t really matter . . . it’s just a saying, taking it too seriously is probably a good sign you either woke up in a bad mood today, or you’re ONE OF those toxic people. :)

I take my writing to a quiet bar sometimes and will proofread over a beer. If someone asks me what I’m doing, I’ll often say homework to avoid the conversation. If they push and find out that I’m working on fiction, it’ll sometimes be followed by something like, “Really? You’re trying to get published? Boy, you’ve got your head in the clouds, huh?” or maybe an amused grin as if they’re talking to a child.

That’s what I took ‘toxic’ to mean….who knows though, maybe I’m wrong, and maybe some of you are right and he really meant your 30 year friend who’s now dying of cancer. Maybe.

Marcel

Wow, my hope in people has been, well, partially, restored by these comments.
Instead of placing the focus on the outside elements, in this case the people you hang out with, people choose to focus on themselves instead. Which is the healthiest thing to do anyway.
If someone you’ve spent time with seemes to have drained your energy, the more productive approach instead of deeming them to be ‘toxic’ would obviously be to ask yourself; why have I allowed myself to be affected by this person’s presence in this manner?
How is it that I seem to be vonurable to this? Is it possible for me to assume a position in which this interaction does no longer result in a state of deminished energy?
You can’t change other people, but what you can do is investigate yourself, and find out why you allow yourself to be affected. Which most probably has to do with the way you perceive the situation, and this, in turn is a result of certain convictions you have. And once you realize the process within you, you have control.

Anonymous

THE SECRET suggested the same principle.

Phikus

Who is creating rules here? Maybe you should be smacked in the head for your presumption of someone making rules for anyone here and presuming anyone should be smacked in the head for it? Have a nice nap.

Roast Beef

Treasure the ones who make your life glow.

THIS! :)

That is all.

Anonymous

I’ve heard similar advice in Scientology documentation around the idea of “suppressive people”. Simplistic nonsense.

Phikus

Troof: Thanks! Nice ground rules, which I wholeheartedly adhere to (although you can say “Shut Up!” in a good way.) Seems like we are on the right path, then, although I think we are equally matched on that last point. =D

Another Aaron: Thank you, sir! It seems less common than once thought.

Anonymous

Although with his logic, if you’re ‘nourished’ by the end of the engagement, then the other person would have to be exhausted. The energy in the universe is constant. And with that logic, that makes you the toxic person and you should be avoided.

Phikus

JJR1971@~39: Well put!

Look at the extreme cases, folks, and look for a persistent pattern instead of everyday individual one-off interactions. There is a certain type of personality that many agree seems to drain all those around them consistently. They seem to be stuck on something and no one can help them but themselves, but conversely they seem to put all of their burdens on others around them to somehow fix. They go way out of their way to externalize all of their issues. They are a walking negative feedback loop and will only leech energy off of others around them until they finally figure it out and climb out of their hole they have dug for themselves. You can point the way, but ultimately, you can do nothing for them until they are ready to face whatever put them there.

This has been a great challenge to my normally empathic and compassionate mode of being, but I have had to learn to recognize this pattern in some people and let them go their own way; or they will drag you down.

Conversely, there are some people who consistently seem to exhilarate all who would spend time with them. These people are a pleasure to be around in a real and not socially superficial sense. They seem to be over brimming with brightness. They energize you to be in their presence and recharge your compassion for the universe. At least that has been true in my anecdotal experience, which I think is all one can really use to judge the veracity of this particular phenomenon, at least until we invent new types of sensory equipment able to read our biochemical auras in more detail that a simple kirlian snapshot.

I leave you now with another Burroughs quote to ponder: “Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer.”

Anonymous

Hitler seemed to exhilarate a lot of people right up till the end…..

Anonymous

FUNNY THING:

A lot of cults, and self help gurus, as well as multi level marketing schemes and “get rich buying foreclosure properties” advise you not to be around “negative people.”

You now WHY they do that?

So that you won’t be around people who can identify their fraudulent claims as BULL CRAP in the first place. They want you to surround yourself with happy-go-lucky goobers who support your nonsense, and they want you to stay away from anyone who’s firmly planted in reality.

Maybe these “toxic” personality types are actually a good thing eh?

David Guerrero

I can tell who is and isn’t toxic just by their remarks.

Anonymous

exactly, if you are toxic of course you are going to make a negative comment right?

Felton

Mensa@113: Haha! “Optimistic souls who have a ‘can-do’ attitude…” What delightful spam!

My toxic friends and I have an understanding. I, usually having a surplus of energy, allow them to drain some of it for their own benefit. They, usually having an abundance of character and individuality, allow me to drain some of it for my own benefit, since “optimistic souls with a ‘can-do’ attitude” are generally boring as hell.

Anonymous

To my Fellow Introverts out there:

Don’t misinterpret Meyers-Briggs. You can expend mental energy in a social interaction, but still “feel good” afterwards.

I’ve ranged anywhere from an I9 to an I4 during my life. Nevertheless, visiting parts of my Italian-American extended family during holidays often leaves me feeling happy afterwards. Exhausted, yes, but still happy. Job interviews do something similar to me. I’m completely wiped-out by meeting so many new people, but the questions (I’m in a technical field) give my brain something chewy to knaw on.

So, it’s possible to benefit from a social interaction even though it’s exhausting.

The real criteria for a “toxic” relationship isn’t, “Does it require effort,” (all relationships do, from lovers to casual acquaintances) but, “Only one of us is benefitting.” If you are __always__ exhausted after dealing with someone, and __never__ benefit from the interaction, but they always do, then it’s toxic for you.

Which is why people with a mood disorder don’t qualify as “energy vampires”: they never benefit. They’re being destroyed from the inside by their illness, so whatever you do for them, it doesn’t help. THAT is why dealing with friends suffering from a mood disorder is so exhausting. (The best you can do for a friend in that state: [1] Get them help; [2] Distraction. Get them focussed on things outside of their own head.)

Anonymous

I had what I consider a very good friend stop calling and inviting me to outings. Does this mean I am a zapper? I feel like I am getting axed. I will admit though that I have a chip on my shoulder and always whine about things, WOE IS ME type of person.

Last night, I realized that I am an emotional nutcase and should probably change my ways because I have a tendency to go off and burn bridges.

invisibelle

I came to say what the other introverts did. I feel drained of energy after interacting with anyone.

TroofSeeker

Anonymous @101 wonders “what do you do if the “toxic” person happens to be one of your parents or another loved one, for instance?”

As if my own family isn’t full of kooks, I married into a large colony of them. A divided colony, most of whom have siblings they say they will never talk to again. I get along great with every one of them. How? I like them for their likable traits, and I don’t judge the crap I dislike.
Sometimes they cry to me. I listen, assure them that it’s not that bad, and try to cheer them up. I may feel a little drained, but I always feel better if I’ve helped someone, even if it was just listening to them vent.

arkizzle

Phikus!

Yeah, I’ve had my nose to an educational grindstone :)
Good to see you’re still fighting the good fight.

arkizzle

MartianTrailer,

Besides the byline Takuan mentioned, there was this sage advice in the link text: “Some people are toxic. Avoid them.”

If you believe Cory’s posts are toxic to you, maybe avoid them, rather than taking the time to tell Cory (and the rest of us) how much you dislike them.

Phikus

Troof: I am not talking about basic tolerance and the dictates of human decency and diplomacy. That’s not special. Again, there are these extreme cases we’re talkin’ about here. Maybe you’ve heard about some of them…

I have revived a half dozen suicides on my watch (and not in an employ as a medical professional or anything. These were incidental; some were intentional, others not.) I have stuck my neck out to harbor meth addicts who had no place to go and even committed a felony in doing so. I have been the one hand of relative sanity reaching out for years to folks who continued to abuse their bodies and minds (while doing my damnedest not to be enabling) even when their families had given up on them. I have gone farther out on a limb with only a wing and a prayer for many more times than I care to list here, for friends of mine. This is not a judgment or rule; simply a maxim; an anecdotal truism. Take it or leave it. It is not a guiding philosophy or code of conduct. It simply states that if you meet someone at some point in your life that really brings you down, you might not want to hang out with them so much. If you find people that energize you or excite you, then by all means, seek out such people and hope to be worthy of their respect.

____

And for all who have decided to spew your vitriol here, I have to say that if you don’t see it, you ARE the problem.

Antinous / Moderator

The problem is that the toxic person who leaves you feeling tired is often the wife who put you through medical school while taking care of the kids, and the one who leaves you energized is often the blond with fake boobs whom you met at the strip club. How we feel about the people around us generally has a lot to do with what we project onto them and not very much about who they are.

marc_chainsaw

Congratulations, I disagree with the contents of this post so much that I felt compelled to sign up to comment.

To imply that feeling drained after an encounter with a friend renders said friend “toxic” is, at best, stupid and at worst the kind of pathetic over-simplification one would find in a terrible 80s “self help” book.

Did you really read this advice and think “wow, that crazy person I go drinking with every week isn’t good for my mental well being?”

really?

I’m just not sure who this post is for…

If you’re so poorly socially balanced that you need a quoted block of text on a blog to tell you that you’re better off without a particular friend, then you’re probably far beyond any help that isn’t professional.

Anonymous

I’m one of those people who feels drained after ANY socializing, even with life-log friends who engage me and make me laugh non-stop and I them, does this mean I ought to avoid the human race? Of course not. Every one has different experiences in the social realm, and overly simplistic “advice” such as this post say more about the person attaching importance to it than any hard and fast rule about the mind numbing complexity of human psychology.

Phikus

Arkizzle: Heya. Good to see ya, so to speak. Fiance says hi. =D ‘nite!

Anonymous

I find narcissistic, shiny happy people who expect everyone around them to be as up, cheerful and oblivious to reality as themselves to be pretty damned draining myself. I am more at home with the realists.

buddy66

Good thread, you guys. Nice range of comments.

Wm. Burroughs was himself toxic. Too many people got suddenly dead around him.

Michael Leddy

Glaser’s advice is not perfectly sound â€” what advice could be? Feeling exhilarated, “alive,” might mean you’re in the hands of someone adept at emotional manipulation. But I think this advice can be useful in getting someone to recognize what Charley in On the Waterfront calls “an unhealthy relationship.” (I’m joking by quoting: that would not be my characterization of Terry and Edie’s relationship.)

For what it’s worth, Roast Beef (#32), Another Aaron (#58), Phikus (#76), and Anon. (#81) hit what seems to me to be in Glaser’s advice.

Yes, introverts might not fit Glaser’s picture of things. For more on that point, I’d suggest Jonathan Rauch’s great 2003 Atlantic piece, “Caring for Your Introvert.” But certainly someone who’s introverted (I’m pretty introverted) will experience different social encounters in different ways, no?

By the way, I found this passage at kottke.org, as noted at the end of my Orange Crate Art post. It’s Jason, not me, who should be getting visits. : )

Purly

LOL

Clif Marsiglio

The introverts are right…the classic definition of an introvert is someone that has to spend energy to be around others…or even more accurately, in times of crisis / stress, do you make to take energy to be around people. I.e., I am an introvert, but I can easily flex…I’ve learned to take energy from social settings, but when stressed, I need to be by myself.

Problem is, half the world is an introvert. And this is one of the hardest personality types to change…I believe I/E is the most stable of the groupings.

So yeah, most introverts are going to be covered by this…then again, in the Western World, we consider Introversion BAAAAD and anyone in it is shunned…thus technically for the audience, he is absolutely right :-)

David Guerrero

@ #84: perfect example

Antinous / Moderator

There’s a pretty good chance that your toxic co-worker is the one who got the boss to actually pay you overtime and that your toxic neighbor is the one who got the city to put in that crosswalk. My pop psychology take on this is that a lot of people can’t stand to ever hear anything negative. Maybe because they were raised to avoid any mention of problems. Maybe because they’re so full of repressed negativity that they’re afraid that hearing one negative comment will make them explode like an overripe zombie on a hot day. Negative (and now toxic) is often a code-word for honest.

arkizzle

Phike, nice!
Hi back, and g’nite too! It’s 6am here, and i need sleep!

Chrs

Reacting with anger to the people who dislike this maxim is surprising.

Yes, this can be useful, but it can definitely be counterproductive, like any convenient generalization. Because it is convenient, it is often more necessary (for your own well-being) to be skeptical than to encourage people to pay attention.

I really agree with Antinous’ point at #137 about projection. What you expect from people shapes what you get from your interactions with them.

This is both a higher point than Glaser’s, and leads directly to it: If your interactions with others are a consequence, in part, of your attitude, this is true for everyone else, too. Without understanding your side of things, though, Glaser’s advice can be really counterproductive.

There might be some quote appropriate here involving a log in your own eye.

Beelzebuddy

Don’t you understand, introverts? You are the toxic people! You’re the social vampires! The buzz harshers! The floating turds in the pool of human interaction!

Your cooler friends will all be a lot happier if you’d just leave them alone. You claim to like being by yourself, why don’t you work on that instead? Plus your Babylon 5 DVDs aren’t going to rewatch themselves, you know.

Anonymous

What a strange selfish short sighted mindless rule to apply to ones life. This is the kind of rule a glad handing salesman would apply to daily encounters. Or a greedy businessperson of any cherry picking variety.

gowerboy

I take it the “terrific” was ironic.

Uland

Man, I felt immediately poisoned after reading the first paragraph..
Have we really come to this? Do we view personal relationships through the lens of a kind of free-market/new age lens?
This is like Ayn Rand + Friedman + Tony Robbins x Alan Watt.
After all, to what end do people “energize” one another?- Is it basically a way of making people feel like they can get what they want? Isn’t that what it comes down to?
Pure vanity, people.
Maybe dealing with people that don’t give us what we want is something we can learn from. Is that a novel idea? Maybe developing bonds that can survive shitty, shitty times is something that will help us not poison each other with adolescent, spoiled bullshit like this..

Anonymous

@117 Mark Chainsaw

sometimes a blog post is exactly what people need to realize they DO need help. It happens.

@BoingBoing crew – please keep posting things that might help people realize they need help.

Anonymous

Excellent point @137, Antinous.

Is it fair to say that “exhausted” can mean different things at different points in your life?

I can think of a few college pals I adored, who would drive me straight up the effing wall today.

and Anon “I feel this way about 95% of humanity” — I don’t mean this as an insult — this is genuine concern for a fellow human being — if it feels like 95% of humanity are stealing your soul all the time — seriously, perhaps you should consider seeking the help of a mental health professional.

Anonymous

This is the same crap that THE SECRET by Rhonda Byrne is preaching.

Roast Beef

Parababelico@131–I don’t nesc. think either you or your friend is being vampiric in that situation. You’re coming from different places, to be sure. (Pot has been known to do that to a conversation.) It looks like you heard what she said as bunkum and she heard what you said as cold, so she said something defensive and you got offended. Nothing inherently toxic there. Could be just two friends disagreeing, is all. Maybe you’ll never be BFFs because of that fundamental disagreement, but you can still be there for each other. Of course, you know better how it felt/feels and what precisely happened. Tone and body language (not to mention past history!) are important for figuring out this kind of dynamic.

I do know that as an introvert-4-life I find it strange that folks have decided this is about intro-vs.-extra. I have extravereted toxic (ex-)friends among the highest toxicity levels. And on the reverse, some of my most nutritious and delicious nourishers are introverted.

That said, I am happy to see so many people concerned about treatment of the mentally ill! It devastates and infuriates me that the culture I live in habitually abandons the people most in need of help. It’s great that many other boingsvilleans are moved by this issue. I hope you are all doing something about mental health justice outside of this thread.

Antinous / Moderator

what do you do if the “toxic” person happens to be one of your parents or another loved one

Zero contact with my father after age 12, put my mother on ‘weekly phone call’ at age 30. Limit setting abilities – i haz dem.

Avoid toxic people

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