Comments on: London cops catch and search a potential terrorist every three minutes http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:59:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484608 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484608 For this reason alone do I enjoy sneaking bags of oregano into the coat pockets and glove compartments of my friends. For this reason alone do I enjoy sneaking bags of oregano into the coat pockets and glove compartments of my friends.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484615 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484615 I'd be interested to know how many of those arrests are actually for substantive violations. How many are old offenses reclassified as "terror?" How many are benign technical violations that are coincidentally covered by terror statutes? If they stop me and find I have a photo of the Parliament building on my camera and I get detained over it, does that count towards their statistics? I’d be interested to know how many of those arrests are actually for substantive violations. How many are old offenses reclassified as “terror?” How many are benign technical violations that are coincidentally covered by terror statutes?

If they stop me and find I have a photo of the Parliament building on my camera and I get detained over it, does that count towards their statistics?

]]> By: DWittSF http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484368 DWittSF Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484368 Just wait until the thought scanners are operational! Just wait until the thought scanners are operational!

]]> By: EH http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484371 EH Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484371 How many of the arrests resulted in DNA swabs? How many of the arrests resulted in DNA swabs?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484379 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484379 To be fair, it beats the old "shoot first, ask questions later" scheme. To be fair, it beats the old “shoot first, ask questions later” scheme.

]]> By: felixjawesome http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484389 felixjawesome Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484389 If they keep searching, they are bound to find something. And then the world will be safe forever the end no commas. If they keep searching, they are bound to find something. And then the world will be safe forever the end no commas.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484647 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484647 HALT! Papers please. HALT! Papers please.

]]> By: Axx http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484915 Axx Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484915 You naysayers! This is wonderful! At this rate, the entire UK can be guaranteed to be terrorist free in only 14 short years! That is, assuming that no <14 year olds born in the interim become the world's youngest terrorists. I look to the future with weeping eyes and a happy heart. A future free from terror awaits us!! You naysayers! This is wonderful! At this rate, the entire UK can be guaranteed to be terrorist free in only 14 short years! That is, assuming that no <14 year olds born in the interim become the world’s youngest terrorists.

I look to the future with weeping eyes and a happy heart. A future free from terror awaits us!!

]]> By: VICTOR JIMENEZ http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484414 VICTOR JIMENEZ Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484414 Hey! That´s some GREAT SUCCESS! 65 arrested on 170 searches! Eh.. d Did you say 170 or 170000? Oh Shit! Hey! That´s some GREAT SUCCESS! 65 arrested on 170 searches!
Eh.. d
Did you say 170 or 170000?

Oh Shit!

]]> By: biffpow http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484679 biffpow Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484679 And there have been no new terrorist attacks in London, which would also be a 100% effective rate. The UK is using Bush logic! @machinelf: Excellent question. And there have been no new terrorist attacks in London, which would also be a 100% effective rate. The UK is using Bush logic!

@machinelf: Excellent question.

]]> By: Baldhead http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484686 Baldhead Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484686 "police raided 17 homes in the Birmingham area early this morning, uncovering what they believe to be terrorist ring."- V for Vendetta “police raided 17 homes in the Birmingham area early this morning, uncovering what they believe to be terrorist ring.”- V for Vendetta

]]> By: error404 http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484688 error404 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484688 Coppers with wide ranging stop and search powers? Now there's an idea that's worked well in the past. Toxteth and Brixton up in smoke last time the rozzers had these powers. The greatest problem with the police forse is that it attracts police types. Coppers with wide ranging stop and search powers?

Now there’s an idea that’s worked well in the past.

Toxteth and Brixton up in smoke last time the rozzers had these powers.

The greatest problem with the police forse is that it attracts police types.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484441 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484441 I'm glad I left the UK. You guys need a revolution. I’m glad I left the UK. You guys need a revolution.

]]> By: Trilby http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-485474 Trilby Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485474 "Cuddy had only been a guard for a few days, but already he had absorbed one important and basic fact: it is almost impossible for anyone to be in a street without breaking the law." “Cuddy had only been a guard for a few days, but already he had absorbed one important and basic fact: it is almost impossible for anyone to be in a street without breaking the law.”

]]> By: error404 http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484460 error404 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484460 I remember the last time that the rozzers had sweeping powers of stop and search, Toxteh and Brixton went up in smoke. The problem with the police force is that they tend to attract police types. I remember the last time that the rozzers had sweeping powers of stop and search, Toxteh and Brixton went up in smoke.

The problem with the police force is that they tend to attract police types.

]]> By: alienination http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484464 alienination Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484464 Well, actually these searches are more of a deterrent than a direct way to catch terrorists. However, this does make it a lot easier to catch them - the need for secrecy an such makes them much more vulnerable and disorganized. Well, actually these searches are more of a deterrent than a direct way to catch terrorists.
However, this does make it a lot easier to catch them – the need for secrecy an such makes them much more vulnerable and disorganized.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484744 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484744 the arrests will be from citizens refusing to be searched. the arrests will be from citizens refusing to be searched.

]]> By: Cory Doctorow http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484491 Cory Doctorow Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484491 @16, well, that would be marginally true if there were millions of searches conducted every hour -- IOW, if there was any appreciable chance that any individual was likely to be searched. But they searched 170,000 times over 365 days, and there are about 20,000,000 people in the capital area, which means that a terrorist's risk of being stopped and searched is about 1/2.39500 × 10-5 (basically, 0.000%). But they don't and can't search everyone -- or even 1% of everyone -- every day, or the city would grind to a halt. So instead, every 3 minutes, some innocent person is harrassed and treated like a crim -- and the net effect on terrorism is zero. @16, well, that would be marginally true if there were millions of searches conducted every hour — IOW, if there was any appreciable chance that any individual was likely to be searched. But they searched 170,000 times over 365 days, and there are about 20,000,000 people in the capital area, which means that a terrorist’s risk of being stopped and searched is about 1/2.39500 × 10-5 (basically, 0.000%).

But they don’t and can’t search everyone — or even 1% of everyone — every day, or the city would grind to a halt.

So instead, every 3 minutes, some innocent person is harrassed and treated like a crim — and the net effect on terrorism is zero.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484495 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484495 I remember seeing figures from soon after the powers were introduced showing that the majority of people stopped and searched were black, because we all know that most Irish republican activists are black. I remember seeing figures from soon after the powers were introduced showing that the majority of people stopped and searched were black, because we all know that most Irish republican activists are black.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484496 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484496 "Devil's advocate here, but might they just be reclassifying searches they would have done anyway (and called something else)? i.e. The searches would have happened anyway?" Exactly. The point isn't just that Britain's anti-terror methods are ineffective. They also serve as a pretext for violations of privacy rights and human rights. There is no way the Met had cause to search 72,000 for terrorism last year. They unlawfully stopped 72,000 for being brown, young or sketchy; they had the anti-terror laws to paper over their misconduct. “Devil’s advocate here, but might they just be reclassifying searches they would have done anyway (and called something else)? i.e. The searches would have happened anyway?”

Exactly. The point isn’t just that Britain’s anti-terror methods are ineffective. They also serve as a pretext for violations of privacy rights and human rights. There is no way the Met had cause to search 72,000 for terrorism last year. They unlawfully stopped 72,000 for being brown, young or sketchy; they had the anti-terror laws to paper over their misconduct.

]]> By: tregeagle http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-485520 tregeagle Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485520 I was a motorbike/cycle courier during the last IRA (and others) bombing campaign in the early 90's and I remember often seeing (Irish) people in the Kentish Town area and Arabs around Edgeware Road all getting stopped and searched. The cops invariably had an incredible array of armor and weapons. I remember thinking it seemed a bit over the top but I supposed it was necessary. After all, I often had to negotiate gridlock when the bombs went off. My point of view was irrevocably changed one afternoon. I had a postcard to send to my Mum. Seeing a postbox at the side of the road I pulled over to pop my card in the box, admittedly a no parking zone. I could not quite reach the slot so I kicked down the stand and stepped round the postbox. As I posted my Mum's card I saw a WPC officer approach. I smiled at her and said something like, "Sorry about this, been meaning to post this all day". She pulled my keys out of the bike and said, "You are parked in a no parking zone. Wait, while I write your ticket". "Don't be ridiculous" I replied, "I'm only parked because you just pulled out my keys" I obviously had the wrong attitude. She did not even pull out her ticket book. Looking directly at me with the hint of a smile she spoke briefly into her radio. It sounded like she was calling for backup. Hardly pausing for breath she informed me that she was arresting me under some 80's terrorism act. As she finished her monologue a white van came careening across the road and eight cops got out I was thrown to the ground just as I had seen the Arabs and Irish 'terrorists' have done to them. It all happened frighteningly quickly. I was arrested under suspicion of being a terrorist, taken to some cells and locked up for a four hours whilst they dismantled my courier radio (Cheaper than a mobile in the 90's) in case it was a bomb and ID'd me. Ironically they called my Mum before releasing me, the postcard had been to reassure her that I was getting on OK in the big city in my new job. I was a motorbike/cycle courier during the last IRA (and others) bombing campaign in the early 90′s and I remember often seeing (Irish) people in the Kentish Town area and Arabs around Edgeware Road all getting stopped and searched. The cops invariably had an incredible array of armor and weapons. I remember thinking it seemed a bit over the top but I supposed it was necessary. After all, I often had to negotiate gridlock when the bombs went off.

My point of view was irrevocably changed one afternoon. I had a postcard to send to my Mum. Seeing a postbox at the side of the road I pulled over to pop my card in the box, admittedly a no parking zone. I could not quite reach the slot so I kicked down the stand and stepped round the postbox. As I posted my Mum’s card I saw a WPC officer approach. I smiled at her and said something like, “Sorry about this, been meaning to post this all day”. She pulled my keys out of the bike and said, “You are parked in a no parking zone. Wait, while I write your ticket”.
“Don’t be ridiculous” I replied, “I’m only parked because you just pulled out my keys” I obviously had the wrong attitude.

She did not even pull out her ticket book. Looking directly at me with the hint of a smile she spoke briefly into her radio. It sounded like she was calling for backup. Hardly pausing for breath she informed me that she was arresting me under some 80′s terrorism act. As she finished her monologue a white van came careening across the road and eight cops got out I was thrown to the ground just as I had seen the Arabs and Irish ‘terrorists’ have done to them. It all happened frighteningly quickly.

I was arrested under suspicion of being a terrorist, taken to some cells and locked up for a four hours whilst they dismantled my courier radio (Cheaper than a mobile in the 90′s) in case it was a bomb and ID’d me. Ironically they called my Mum before releasing me, the postcard had been to reassure her that I was getting on OK in the big city in my new job.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-485544 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485544 www.muslimyouth.net has just launched a documentary on stop and searches, check it out http://www.muslimyouth.net

has just launched a documentary on stop and searches, check it out

]]> By: Parababelico http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-485042 Parababelico Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485042 <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/06/police-stop-and-search-reform">They changed their policy today.</a> They changed their policy today.

]]> By: Clemoh http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484283 Clemoh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484283 I promise I can beat a 0.035% success rate at a fraction of the cost and disturbance to society. I promise I can beat a 0.035% success rate at a fraction of the cost and disturbance to society.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484546 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484546 Wake up, it's 1984... Wake up, it’s 1984…

]]> By: machinelf http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484550 machinelf Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484550 And Cory chose to live there WHY? And Cory chose to live there WHY?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484298 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484298 Think of it as a training exercise. When the shit comes down and everybody has to be searched, the Metro police are prepared! 1984 can't happen over night. It takes some fucking commitment. Think of it as a training exercise. When the shit comes down and everybody has to be searched, the Metro police are prepared!

1984 can’t happen over night. It takes some fucking commitment.

]]> By: phisrow http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484299 phisrow Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484299 Clearly, arrest rates that low are a sign that expanded powers are needed to protect the public. We know the terrorists are out there, skulking and hating our way of life. The only explanation is that we don't yet have broad enough powers to find them. /Jacqui Smith Clearly, arrest rates that low are a sign that expanded powers are needed to protect the public. We know the terrorists are out there, skulking and hating our way of life. The only explanation is that we don’t yet have broad enough powers to find them.

/Jacqui Smith

]]> By: Individual http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484300 Individual Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484300 So the real question is whether a creating a climate of fear (random searches, brutality, surveillance, spies) is more effective in preventing "terrorism" than working towards a climate of trust? So the real question is whether a creating a climate of fear (random searches, brutality, surveillance, spies) is more effective in preventing “terrorism” than working towards a climate of trust?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html#comment-484305 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484305 Devil's advocate here, but might they just be reclassifying searches they would have done anyway (and called something else)? i.e. The searches would have happened anyway? Devil’s advocate here, but might they just be reclassifying searches they would have done anyway (and called something else)? i.e. The searches would have happened anyway?

]]>