Comments on: Digital Warriors - The next MK Ultra? http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 18 Jun 2013 05:19:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485378 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485378 I thought stress inoculation was pretty widely accepted science. For example, there's the SERE program. Can we get a credible source to back up "all of the psychologists I've spoken with since then" who say that it doesn't work? I thought stress inoculation was pretty widely accepted science. For example, there’s the SERE program. Can we get a credible source to back up “all of the psychologists I’ve spoken with since then” who say that it doesn’t work?

]]> By: Ernunnos http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485385 Ernunnos Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485385 This is just a whole-room version of the FATS simulators that police academies have been using for years. The first one I ever used actually ran pre-filmed scenarios off of a laser disk. Sometimes a suspect pulls out a gun, sometimes a wallet. Now it's in hi-def and dynamically generated. But the goal is the same: To practice the skills needed to avoid harming innocents. I'm very thankful that our military and law enforcement have those tools. If you really think the goal is to create unfeeling killers, then be afraid, be very, very afraid. Because most of the cops you encounter (at least in larger cities that can afford the hardware) will have been through training very similar to this. This is just a whole-room version of the FATS simulators that police academies have been using for years. The first one I ever used actually ran pre-filmed scenarios off of a laser disk. Sometimes a suspect pulls out a gun, sometimes a wallet. Now it’s in hi-def and dynamically generated. But the goal is the same: To practice the skills needed to avoid harming innocents.

I’m very thankful that our military and law enforcement have those tools.

If you really think the goal is to create unfeeling killers, then be afraid, be very, very afraid. Because most of the cops you encounter (at least in larger cities that can afford the hardware) will have been through training very similar to this.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-484889 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484889 "The S3 Plan does not stand for Solid Snake Simulation. What it does stand for is Selection for Societal Sanity" “The S3 Plan does not stand for Solid Snake Simulation. What it does stand for is Selection for Societal Sanity”

]]> By: mkultra http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-484904 mkultra Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484904 Meh. There's only one of me, and one is enough. Meh.

There’s only one of me, and one is enough.

]]> By: Brainspore http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-484923 Brainspore Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484923 Of course they're going to say it's for reducing PTSD. They can't get very good PR with "creating an army of unfeeling killing machines." Of course they’re going to say it’s for reducing PTSD. They can’t get very good PR with “creating an army of unfeeling killing machines.”

]]> By: cycle23 http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485212 cycle23 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485212 http://www.myspace.com/themkultraexperiment http://www.myspace.com/themkultraexperiment

]]> By: rushkoff http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485213 rushkoff Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485213 Yeah, you have a point there Brainspore. I am consistently amazed by how consistently amazed I get. Yeah, you have a point there Brainspore. I am consistently amazed by how consistently amazed I get.

]]> By: Ernunnos http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485769 Ernunnos Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485769 <blockquote>So that explains the shooting of innocent train passengers and the tasing of wizards, six year olds and paraplegics.</blockquote> If it does, police shootings should be much more widespread. So ordinary they don't even make the news or provoke outrage. You might have a point about tasing though. Since tasers are considered less-than-lethal they aren't subject to the same level of shoot-no-shoot training. Instituting the same type of training for tasers would probably reduce those incidents as well.

So that explains the shooting of innocent train passengers and the tasing of wizards, six year olds and paraplegics.

If it does, police shootings should be much more widespread. So ordinary they don’t even make the news or provoke outrage.

You might have a point about tasing though. Since tasers are considered less-than-lethal they aren’t subject to the same level of shoot-no-shoot training. Instituting the same type of training for tasers would probably reduce those incidents as well.

]]> By: Pantograph http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485551 Pantograph Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485551 <blockquote>If you really think the goal is to create unfeeling killers, then be afraid, be very, very afraid. Because most of the cops you encounter (at least in larger cities that can afford the hardware) will have been through training very similar to this.</blockquote> So that explains the shooting of innocent train passengers and the tasing of wizards, six year olds and paraplegics.

If you really think the goal is to create unfeeling killers, then be afraid, be very, very afraid. Because most of the cops you encounter (at least in larger cities that can afford the hardware) will have been through training very similar to this.

So that explains the shooting of innocent train passengers and the tasing of wizards, six year olds and paraplegics.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-484787 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-484787 I've watched and re-watched [and seeded generously] The Persuaders and The Merchants of Cool and I can't wait to see your next explorations of the meta worlds we wander about in! Also, according to an uncited note in your Wikipedia entry, you played the keyboard for a lineup of Psychic TV, founded by Genesis P-Orridge and Peter Christopherson, who were just in the last BBVideo episode back in 2003? Neat! I’ve watched and re-watched [and seeded generously] The Persuaders and The Merchants of Cool and I can’t wait to see your next explorations of the meta worlds we wander about in!
Also, according to an uncited note in your Wikipedia entry, you played the keyboard for a lineup of Psychic TV, founded by Genesis P-Orridge and Peter Christopherson, who were just in the last BBVideo episode back in 2003? Neat!

]]> By: GregLondon http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485586 GregLondon Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485586 Take a random person off the street, give them a gun, put them into urban combat, have them be part of a team that has to raid a room with civilians and combatants, and a lot of them will die and a lot of them will kill innocent civilians before they get killed. There's a very strange assumption that a lot of people have that they think they can pick up a gun and will be a good fighter in a war. It's the hollywood version of reality, the good guys will somehow win and the bad guys will magically die. And it doesn't work that way. You need to train over and over again for combat. Over and over again. Over and over again. Many people off the street will hesitate to pull the trigger and will end up getting killed. Many will shoot anything that moves. Watch the video again and watch the marine who says he screwed up and shot a civilian. He's not happy about it, but he's glad it's a simulation. If that had been his first real room entry, a real civilian would have been dead, and he'd probably developing some totally messed up coping mechanism. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that the "They say it is to lessen the effects and reduce post-traumatic stress" was cherry picked from a brochure of information describing what virtual training does. You think if that marine had killed a real civilian that he wouldn't get PTSD? I say he'd be having nightmares about it for the rest of his life. If this training ends up making him NOT shooting a civilian in a similar situation, then I say he won't have PTSD, and it was because the training prepared him for it. And that means, yeah, it reduces PTSD. Take a random person off the street, give them a gun, put them into urban combat, have them be part of a team that has to raid a room with civilians and combatants, and a lot of them will die and a lot of them will kill innocent civilians before they get killed.

There’s a very strange assumption that a lot of people have that they think they can pick up a gun and will be a good fighter in a war. It’s the hollywood version of reality, the good guys will somehow win and the bad guys will magically die.

And it doesn’t work that way.

You need to train over and over again for combat. Over and over again. Over and over again. Many people off the street will hesitate to pull the trigger and will end up getting killed. Many will shoot anything that moves. Watch the video again and watch the marine who says he screwed up and shot a civilian. He’s not happy about it, but he’s glad it’s a simulation.

If that had been his first real room entry, a real civilian would have been dead, and he’d probably developing some totally messed up coping mechanism.

I’m going to take a wild guess here and say that the “They say it is to lessen the effects and reduce post-traumatic stress” was cherry picked from a brochure of information describing what virtual training does. You think if that marine had killed a real civilian that he wouldn’t get PTSD? I say he’d be having nightmares about it for the rest of his life. If this training ends up making him NOT shooting a civilian in a similar situation, then I say he won’t have PTSD, and it was because the training prepared him for it. And that means, yeah, it reduces PTSD.

]]> By: Ratdog http://boingboing.net/2009/05/06/digital-warriors---t.html#comment-485352 Ratdog Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-485352 I wonder if they are ever assigned to protect the Xeni Avatar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqnzFoT74DY I wonder if they are ever assigned to protect the Xeni Avatar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqnzFoT74DY

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