No-plugin open video coming to a browser near you

Jonico sez, "Dailymotion is working converting their video library to open video formats -- Ogg Theora. Currently they are working with Firefox to get it working correctly on Firefox 3.5 Beta(they include a link with some demos) and soon on other browsers that support HTML 5. This is one of the biggest video sites to begin to offer their video in open video formats (Ogg+ Vorbis)."

Watch Video...without Flash

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  1. Maybe BoingBoing.net could also do it and show the example of getting away of technologies that promote DRM and other lockin to embrace open format.

    No?

  2. This is awesome, I have tried it (Firefox 3.5 is part of the yet to be released Fedora 11 and I have tested the LiveCD), it provides what a user expects, time line bar an a play/pause button, it just look so natural. I have tested it with theorasea.org (they provide videos in the OGG Vorbis format only). So yeah, this is awesome! If only the guys from Google can appreciate it (especially the youtube team)

  3. It’s still a plugin. It’s just built into the browser. It’s not better, just different and considering its not supported by other browsers, worse for developers. Firefox would better serve its users by improving Flash performance (it was good until FF3 rolled out, now its unstable).

  4. woooah! This is awesome. I am a hardcore Firefox user and I think this would really help… than you for sharing. I can’t wait for this!

    Greenman

  5. #6: It’s not a plugin. It’s indeed built into the browser. It is better, because it’s an open standard with a free software implementation, and being part of HTML5 it’s going to be supported by Opera/Chrome/Safari in short order. It’s no worse for developers than to paste 10k of crappy JS code to make their Flash applets work most of the time. Firefox can’t do much to improve Flash performance because the Flash plugin is proprietary.

  6. The demo on the dailymotion site is quite impressive, with the rotation, and live filters and stuff.

    I dig it more that we’ll be able to rip native files, so they won’t be nasty rencoded .flv’s, yay!

  7. Aaaaahhh, what a nice thing to read with a good cup of coffee… still, I’d love to see the Gecko engine scoring better at stuff like the acid test. If only Opera went OS, it’s the only reason that restrains me from using it.

  8. the youtube demo is using h.264 which chrome and safari implement, but since software patents seem to be a reality in bat country, other implementors aren’t so keen on it – the web video licensing costs starting in 2010 are no good, either. so open formats are way to go – btw, theora is light on cpu cycles, so it should also work well on mobile devices.

  9. I want to second everything #7 NIXAR said. Although I should point out that Safari already supports it. Pretty sure Opera has for some time, too.

    There’s a lot of sites many of you have already been to where you probably thought you were dealing with Flash that are actually 100% JavaScript. There’s very little that you need Flash for these days, and it is growing increasingly unwise to use Flash instead of JavaScript.

    All the browsers that don’t suck have juiced up the speed of their JS implementations, and have added things like CSS transformations and the canvas tag. Internet Explorer just needs to die and move its bloated corpse out of the way of the future of the web.

  10. Godz, change the name of the damned formats!!

    “Vorbis” was the torturing Inquistor in Pratchett’s Small Gods,, and “Ogg” is the family name of Nanny Ogg in his Witches series of novels.

    And don’t get me started on “GIMP”. For the love of whatever, damn, that was a stupid name. A lot of people saw Pulp Fiction. It’s not a funny name.

    Call it .audio and .video instead of really inappropriate and unconnected character names.

    People have to demo these formats in front of serious businesspeople. The names killed the acceptance cycle before it commenced.

  11. But can it be turned OFF? My life was much improved the day I exiled the flash plugin to IE and uninstalled it from Firefox; now I never, ever see those distracting ads and auto-play videos in my every-day surfing. If the browser itself got video capabilities, I’d be very unhappy — I can’t concentrate well enough to read a webpage if the margins are full of flashing lights.

  12. Brokenrobot: I’m sure it would be no problem to turn it off and on, just as most browsers offer the option to not display images.

    MOST browsers. I’m talking to you, Chrome.

  13. Google said they had youtube working with no plugins at google io, just internally, but still, they are at least thinking about it.

  14. I am one of those people building a javascript site that looks like flash. It’s coming along nicely, but it is a nightmare making sure that it looks the same in safari, firefox, explorers 6, 7 and 8. I started on the project when it was about 1/10 built and the original developer gave up. I recommended to the client that the only way to be sure the site looks exactly the same on every browser is to do it in flash. And AS3 is lightyears ahead of javascript and or php. They are not even in the same league. I shudder to think what will happen when half the browsers support this and half don’t. Many disappointed clients and the realization that “damn, should’ve done it in flash”. Unless firefox becomes the only browser that people use, don’t expect this to go far.

  15. You’d think by now at least BB would know that Vorbis is for audio, and Theora for video.

  16. The only problem is that there’s no standard for video codecs, meaning each browser vendor will decide on what codecs to support if any. Which means in order for the video tag to work, the web developer will have to supply multiple versions of the video in a variety of codecs. This has the potential to get even messier, depending on what codecs (if any) various mobile devices support.

    Also since there’s no codex detection for browsers, assumptions will have to be made with what codex the user might have based on browser or operating system. Any users who edit or mask their browser’s user agent will likely run into problems viewing HTML5 video.

    Meanwhile, from a user’s perspective, you unfortunately will have to switch browsers to view video in a different codex, which certain users may want to, as there’s a big difference in quality and performance in video codecs. Plus I don’t think you can get HD or full-screen video or from Ogg plus Vorbis.

    All these problems means that while some sites will implement video with the HTML5 tag, Flash video will still likely dominate web video.

  17. If you try that site in Safari, the videos do play, but in Flash (try right-clicking on one). They seem to be serving the HTML5/Theora stuff only to Firefox.

    Using HTML 5 is great. But choosing an ideologically-pure open-source Ogg codec is not smart. Neither Apple nor Microsoft are going to ship Theora or Vorbis codecs, because both formats are widely believed to contain technology infringing on existing patents, and the holders of those patents would love to sue a company with deep pockets.

    Can someone explain to me what makes H.264 (aka MPEG4) so evil? Is this just a knee-jerk “software patents are evil” mindset, or is there some sort of actual harm caused by using that format? You’ll note that even the dailymotion blog has to make apologies for the poor performance of the Theora codec…

  18. #7 Nixar: “Firefox can’t do much to improve Flash performance because the Flash plugin is proprietary”

    Actually, Firefox impose limits on Flash as well as other plugins that slow them down.

    Here’s a link about Flash Player performance from Adobe’s Tinic Uro who’s an engineer on the Flash Player team:

    “Lets talk about maximum frame rates. In Internet Explorer this is 100 frames/sec. Why? Because the minimum time slice Windows timers can provide is 10 milliseconds. What about FireFox? FireFox does not use special timers and made a decision to limit the maximum frame rate for plugins. Why? The thinking is that users constantly complain that plugins take too much CPU time. A valid complaint I think and every designer who puts online ads out there at higher than 8-12 frames/sec and more that 2 or 3% CPU usage should be ashamed. While a single ad will not be a problem, most pages easily serve 2 or 3 ads on a single page.”

    So Firefox could increase performance in Flash. Or in my mind a better solution, let the user decide whether or not plugins have more or less power in their browser. As I’m sure some users would like to give maximum power to their plugins, while others would like to slow them down until they are almost disabled.

    Also note that the speed increases in the new Firefox JavaScript engine come from Adobe donating it’s ActionScript Virtual Machine 2 code base to Mozilla as an open source project. Contributions to this project could be brought back into the Flash Player to increase the speed of ActionScript, while giving Firefox’s JavaScript engine a boost.

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