Comments on: British cops deliver Catch 22 to photographers: you're not allowed to know which areas you're not allowed to photograph http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 12:09:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517377 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517377 The real problem of course is that British policemen have forgotten they are citizens, first and foremost, and not an arm of Government. While they behave as though they were an arm of the Executive, public confidence in them will remain low. The real problem of course is that British policemen have forgotten they are citizens, first and foremost, and not an arm of Government. While they behave as though they were an arm of the Executive, public confidence in them will remain low.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517380 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517380 A few years back (post 911) I was innocently driving around Denver taking photos with two old film cameras and accidentally started walking around the grounds of the the Denver mint snapping away, only to suddenly be approached from all directions by (big) federal cops. They asked to see my photos and I told them that I was not using a digital camera. I was mostly silent, but they said its not illegal to take the photos I was taking, that I may carry on, but that they just wanted to 'check me out' which they did. They kindly gave me back my ID and I said that I'd rather be on my way. I know I was an idiot for not knowing what that building actually was, but it honestly looked really cool! A few years back (post 911) I was innocently driving around Denver taking photos with two old film cameras and accidentally started walking around the grounds of the the Denver mint snapping away, only to suddenly be approached from all directions by (big) federal cops. They asked to see my photos and I told them that I was not using a digital camera. I was mostly silent, but they said its not illegal to take the photos I was taking, that I may carry on, but that they just wanted to ‘check me out’ which they did. They kindly gave me back my ID and I said that I’d rather be on my way.

I know I was an idiot for not knowing what that building actually was, but it honestly looked really cool!

]]> By: Nonentity http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517386 Nonentity Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517386 Is the stop-and-search a full search? I have to wonder what would happen if someone packed their pockets/bag with "weird" things (rubber chickens? vibrators? glass eyes?) and then walked around taking pictures. If someone else managed to covertly film the resulting search it could be priceless. Is the stop-and-search a full search?

I have to wonder what would happen if someone packed their pockets/bag with “weird” things (rubber chickens? vibrators? glass eyes?) and then walked around taking pictures. If someone else managed to covertly film the resulting search it could be priceless.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517387 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517387 From my experience, the Met police are despicable demi-humans, yet the City of London police are actually quite decent and reasonable people. From my experience, the Met police are despicable demi-humans, yet the City of London police are actually quite decent and reasonable people.

]]> By: kulturschock http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-518157 kulturschock Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-518157 What the hell, Britain. This is not law, this is oppression. Rule number 1 of rulemaking: supply to those bound by a rule information about that rule. Not doing so cannot be justified in any situation. What the hell, Britain. This is not law, this is oppression. Rule number 1 of rulemaking: supply to those bound by a rule information about that rule. Not doing so cannot be justified in any situation.

]]> By: Timothy Hutton http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517393 Timothy Hutton Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517393 Like someone else suggested earlier, I'd deploy photgraphers around the country with cameras with <I>no film inside</I>, and record locations where they are hasseled. Extra points for putting a towel on their heads and saying "Durka-durka" a lot. <b>Cory</b> - seriously, <I>there is no proof that terrorists use photographs in planning terrorist attacks?!</b> what do you imagine they do, draw sketches or paint word pictures to describe their targets? I'm on my cellphone, so searching for supporting evidence is left for the reader, but I believe they have caught folks planning terrorist attacks in the US with pictures of their intended targets, I have to believe that Timothy McVeigh had a picture or two of the Murrow building marked "Before". I think your zeal to denounce this wrong from every possible angle caused you to include this non-sensical statement. If nothing else, I assume photos would be used to determine the most effective placement of a device (since blueprints are likely right out), and for clearly communicating device placement to the person placing the device... Do you have any good reason to suspect otherwise? Like someone else suggested earlier, I’d deploy photgraphers around the country with cameras with no film inside, and record locations where they are hasseled. Extra points for putting a towel on their heads and saying “Durka-durka” a lot.

Cory – seriously, there is no proof that terrorists use photographs in planning terrorist attacks?! what do you imagine they do, draw sketches or paint word pictures to describe their targets?

I’m on my cellphone, so searching for supporting evidence is left for the reader, but I believe they have caught folks planning terrorist attacks in the US with pictures of their intended targets, I have to believe that Timothy McVeigh had a picture or two of the Murrow building marked “Before”.

I think your zeal to denounce this wrong from every possible angle caused you to include this non-sensical statement. If nothing else, I assume photos would be used to determine the most effective placement of a device (since blueprints are likely right out), and for clearly communicating device placement to the person placing the device… Do you have any good reason to suspect otherwise?

]]> By: elShoggotho http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-518166 elShoggotho Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-518166 Maybe it's just my pessimistic German nature, but everyone seems to give the police Gestapo-like powers these days. Maybe it’s just my pessimistic German nature, but everyone seems to give the police Gestapo-like powers these days.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-518167 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-518167 You should ask them for a list of places which you are allowed to take photos then. There's no danger in releasing that is there ;) You should ask them for a list of places which you are allowed to take photos then. There’s no danger in releasing that is there ;)

]]> By: webmonkees http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517401 webmonkees Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517401 I can envision a future art exhibition, pictures of forbidden areas, with added details of the uber secret facilities hidden within.. (think James Bond villan lair and lots of evil white cats) I can envision a future art exhibition, pictures of forbidden areas, with added details of the uber secret facilities hidden within.. (think James Bond villan lair and lots of evil white cats)

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517403 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517403 Anyone else suddenly have the name 'Kafka' pop into their head after reading this? Seriously, the UK is a step or two away from putting on the real life version of 'The Trial'. Anyone else suddenly have the name ‘Kafka’ pop into their head after reading this? Seriously, the UK is a step or two away from putting on the real life version of ‘The Trial’.

]]> By: tonyvoice123 http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517415 tonyvoice123 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517415 Another prime example of gov taking away the rights of a "Free press". The sad part is they have trained the public to think the "press" is bad, so the public oppose radio, tv, print, etc when things like this happen. Another prime example of gov taking away the rights of a “Free press”. The sad part is they have trained the public to think the “press” is bad, so the public oppose radio, tv, print, etc when things like this happen.

]]> By: GDBnNH http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-720937 GDBnNH Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-720937 Had I read this story outside the context of a news item, I would have thought it to be a part of a script for a sequel to "Brasil". Had I read this story outside the context of a news item, I would have thought it to be a part of a script for a sequel to “Brasil”.

]]> By: anwaya http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517422 anwaya Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517422 Occam says: there is no list. It's a question of "discretion" - in other words, they just make it up as they go along. I mean - the entire City of London is a "sensitive" area? Bonkers. Occam says: there is no list. It’s a question of “discretion” – in other words, they just make it up as they go along.

I mean – the entire City of London is a “sensitive” area? Bonkers.

]]> By: anwaya http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517678 anwaya Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517678 Takuan @ 41: Banksy street signs! Circular, white background, red boundary, iconic SLR in black with a diagonal red slash. "Photographers will be prosecuted - Video surveillance in progress." "CAUTION: EXCESSIVE LOOKING IS A CRIME." Takuan @ 41: Banksy street signs! Circular, white background, red boundary, iconic SLR in black with a diagonal red slash. “Photographers will be prosecuted – Video surveillance in progress.” “CAUTION: EXCESSIVE LOOKING IS A CRIME.”

]]> By: DWittSF http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517441 DWittSF Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517441 Perhaps someone could tap the kinetic output of George Orwell, spinning in his grave like a lathe. Perhaps someone could tap the kinetic output of George Orwell, spinning in his grave like a lathe.

]]> By: Sethum http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517447 Sethum Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517447 Pretty soon they'll forbid even <i>looking</i> at sensitive areas. So the police will start harassing people just because they're not blind. Pretty soon they’ll forbid even looking at sensitive areas. So the police will start harassing people just because they’re not blind.

]]> By: Baldhead http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517469 Baldhead Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517469 Yeah sounds like they're simply giving themselves carte blanche to harass anyone they choose as long as tey have a device that can take picutres (which with cell phones means almost anyone) Between google maps and flickr everything's been covered long ago anyway. Yeah sounds like they’re simply giving themselves carte blanche to harass anyone they choose as long as tey have a device that can take picutres (which with cell phones means almost anyone)

Between google maps and flickr everything’s been covered long ago anyway.

]]> By: Angstrom http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517470 Angstrom Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517470 If I was planning to blow somewhere up I would not stand in front of it brazenly snapping away and getting myself noticed and probably stopped. That's hardly the mark of a competent subversive activist. Surely they would just put a digicam in a bag, like every 'undercover reporter' has for the last 15 years. If I was planning to blow somewhere up I would not stand in front of it brazenly snapping away and getting myself noticed and probably stopped. That’s hardly the mark of a competent subversive activist. Surely they would just put a digicam in a bag, like every ‘undercover reporter’ has for the last 15 years.

]]> By: Teufelaffe http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517474 Teufelaffe Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517474 There's a simple way to put a stop to this crap...somehow convince all movie and TV studios to agree to stop filming anything in London "for fear of violating the law". The potential loss of income might actually bring them to their senses. There’s a simple way to put a stop to this crap…somehow convince all movie and TV studios to agree to stop filming anything in London
“for fear of violating the law”. The potential loss of income might actually bring them to their senses.

]]> By: Roy Trumbull http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517476 Roy Trumbull Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517476 I was in the UK in 1998. Our hotel was near Victoria Station. The first thing I noticed was that there were no trash cans anywhere. Every few minutes custodians sweep up using wide brooms. This was in response to the IRA and their bombs. In the US the postal box is a vanishing landmark, especially in front of public buildings. At one large radio station in San Francisco I was part of the local bomb squad. When we got a threat we'd be notified and inspect our work areas. I had the tast of taking a ladder to pop up the ceiling tiles in the john and also check the trash containers. Eventually a bomb went off in the building but it targeted the Iranian counsel's office back in the days of the Shah. Frankly you could do a lot to building designs to make them less susceptable to terrorism. I was in the UK in 1998. Our hotel was near Victoria Station. The first thing I noticed was that there were no trash cans anywhere. Every few minutes custodians sweep up using wide brooms. This was in response to the IRA and their bombs.
In the US the postal box is a vanishing landmark, especially in front of public buildings.
At one large radio station in San Francisco I was part of the local bomb squad. When we got a threat we’d be notified and inspect our work areas. I had the tast of taking a ladder to pop up the ceiling tiles in the john and also check the trash containers.
Eventually a bomb went off in the building but it targeted the Iranian counsel’s office back in the days of the Shah.
Frankly you could do a lot to building designs to make them less susceptable to terrorism.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-518254 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-518254 everyones outrage is operating on the assumption that the goal of these programs is to prevent terrorism. it should be obvious from 10,000 meters that this is not the case. this is part of a class of laws to give the state a pretense for control. it should be even more obvious given recent revelations of corruption in parliament and scotland yard what the motivator is for this. sadly, if history is to teach us anything, it is that things will slide into hell before enough people stand up and say "enough!" and the whole thing starts over again. the sleep walking is over, Britain is a police state now. everyones outrage is operating on the assumption that the goal of these programs is to prevent terrorism. it should be obvious from 10,000 meters that this is not the case.

this is part of a class of laws to give the state a pretense for control. it should be even more obvious given recent revelations of corruption in parliament and scotland yard what the motivator is for this. sadly, if history is to teach us anything, it is that things will slide into hell before enough people stand up and say “enough!” and the whole thing starts over again.

the sleep walking is over, Britain is a police state now.

]]> By: larsrc http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517504 larsrc Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517504 Good thing they've just come out with SD cards with Wi-Fi. Snap away, send your pictures immediately, let the police stop you all they want. I hope somebody gets stopped who is brave enough to actually demand to see that the place he shot was on the list. Preferably in court. Otherwise, this is tantamount to a secret law. Good thing they’ve just come out with SD cards with Wi-Fi. Snap away, send your pictures immediately, let the police stop you all they want.

I hope somebody gets stopped who is brave enough to actually demand to see that the place he shot was on the list. Preferably in court. Otherwise, this is tantamount to a secret law.

]]> By: TheMadLibrarian http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517507 TheMadLibrarian Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517507 Anyone feel the ghost of Douglas Adams chortling at all this? "In a sub-basement, behind a locked door with a sign saying 'Beware of the Leopard!'" While ignorance of the law may be no excuse, the flip side is that the law must be accessible, not arbitrary. Anyone feel the ghost of Douglas Adams chortling at all this? “In a sub-basement, behind a locked door with a sign saying ‘Beware of the Leopard!’” While ignorance of the law may be no excuse, the flip side is that the law must be accessible, not arbitrary.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517532 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517532 Gilbert Anonymous here: I have the perfect solution to idiots trying to stop photographers. Two words: Flash mob. Use cell phones and texting to organize a mass photo party. Let'em try to deal with that!! Gilbert Anonymous here:

I have the perfect solution to idiots trying to stop photographers. Two words: Flash mob. Use cell phones and texting to organize a mass photo party. Let’em try to deal with that!!

]]> By: Timothy Hutton http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517552 Timothy Hutton Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517552 <b>anwaya</b> commented: <blockquote>I mean - the entire City of London is a "sensitive" area?</blockquote> The <b><i>entire</i> City of London</b> is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London">just over one square mile</a> - 1% the size of Washington D.C. (which is defined as ten miles square in the <a href="http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html">U.S. Constitution</a>, Article 1, section 8) - while excessive, it is far less ground than we normally think of when we speak of "London" anwaya commented:

I mean – the entire City of London is a “sensitive” area?

The entire City of London is just over one square mile – 1% the size of Washington D.C. (which is defined as ten miles square in the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, section 8) – while excessive, it is far less ground than we normally think of when we speak of “London”

]]> By: anwaya http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517572 anwaya Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517572 @Timmothy Hutton: I see that my earlier comment was ambiguous. I was born in Camden Town and lived there for thirty years. I know about the size of the city. it's the strategic and symbolic irrelevance of so much of the square mile that makes me scornful of this absurdity. Ten square miles or one, the measure is not about security, it's about suppression. @Timmothy Hutton:

I see that my earlier comment was ambiguous.

I was born in Camden Town and lived there for thirty years. I know about the size of the city. it’s the strategic and symbolic irrelevance of so much of the square mile that makes me scornful of this absurdity. Ten square miles or one, the measure is not about security, it’s about suppression.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517581 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517581 yep, like airport shoe-fetishists and shampoo thieves, it's all about teaching the slaves their place. The genius was in using other slaves to do the oppressing. I propose the revival of "capo" as a term of daily use. From the the death camps, "capos" were inmates permitted to live a little longer for assisting in the murder of other inmates. Let the Met Police, TSA workers and similar all be referred to by free men as "capos", use the word, make it stick, spit when you say it. Public shaming is one of the few non-violent weapons left. That is the idea though, they hope to eventually provoke violence so they can justify a real prison lock-down. yep, like airport shoe-fetishists and shampoo thieves, it’s all about teaching the slaves their place. The genius was in using other slaves to do the oppressing. I propose the revival of “capo” as a term of daily use. From the the death camps, “capos” were inmates permitted to live a little longer for assisting in the murder of other inmates.
Let the Met Police, TSA workers and similar all be referred to by free men as “capos”, use the word, make it stick, spit when you say it. Public shaming is one of the few non-violent weapons left.

That is the idea though, they hope to eventually provoke violence so they can justify a real prison lock-down.

]]> By: Catherine Omega http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517328 Catherine Omega Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517328 "I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to tell you if I'm allowed to take photographs in restricted areas." Sure, you get arrested, but everyone loves a smart-aleck, right? Right? “I’m sorry, I’m not allowed to tell you if I’m allowed to take photographs in restricted areas.”

Sure, you get arrested, but everyone loves a smart-aleck, right? Right?

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517331 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517331 so all UK photographers should keep a communal on -line log of where they were hassled. so all UK photographers should keep a communal on -line log of where they were hassled.

]]> By: cybergibbons http://boingboing.net/2009/06/12/british-cops-deliver.html#comment-517332 cybergibbons Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-517332 It's nice to see that UK journalists can't make the distinction between Greater London and the City of London, yet a Canadian, albeit one living in the UK, blogging about the article can pick up on it... It’s nice to see that UK journalists can’t make the distinction between Greater London and the City of London, yet a Canadian, albeit one living in the UK, blogging about the article can pick up on it…

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