Soldier won't go to Afghanistan because he doesn't believe Obama is the president of the United States

The Lizardman

@Demidan,

Great, more Texas bashing – I think BB needs a godwin equivalent for this

grimc

The Moon Landing never happened, but was filmed on a Culver City soundstage. Also.

Anonymous

It would be useful, and good investigative journalism, to find out from Major Cook on what date he received notice that he was no longer being asked to serve in Afghanistan and whether it was by telephone or a letter sent by snail mail, or whatever.

The date of the filing of the suit by Cook was July 9 (I have it at the 9th, though some say the 8th), which was last Thursday (or it could be Wednesday), and the earliest stories saying that he was no longer being asked to go were last night.

That is six days or seven, but two of them were weekend days. It is unlikely that the Army could have decided to make a change from â€œgo to Afghanistanâ€ to â€œdonâ€™t go to Afghanistanâ€ in only four or five days. It just doesnâ€™t work that fast.

And besides, Cook volunteered to go to Afghanistan in the first place. On May 8, meaning that he volunteered to serve in Afghanistan while Obama was president. http://www.newspapersites.net/newspaper/columbus-ledger-enquirer-1.asp

SamSam

@Teresa: What a great article that last last link is. I had never heard of any of these people, but I love how they are all so crazy that each of them believes that the others must be Obama plants designed to make them look bad.

Says it all right there.

Avram / Moderator

Lizardman @17, please refrain from insulting broad groups of people. There are plenty of religious people in the world who are smarter than you or I.

Alan

Even if Obama wasn’t born in the U.S., he’s still a natural born citizen. His mother was born in Kansas and was a natural born citizen, which makes her kids so as well. There’s nothing nowhere that says you have to be born in the U.S. – just a natural born citizen.

Our Major is barking up two wrong trees.

Xopher

ModusOperandi, don’t click here.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Thanks, SamSam. In situations where everyone’s calling the other a fuckup, it’s possible they’re all right.

slgalt

Frank Burns was a major too.

This guy is nuts, so he should in fact not be deployed, but given a section 8.

Timothy Hutton

Follow-on to earlier anonymous post – the order was apparently rescinded, but without a stated reason, which leaves the attorney for the Major able to invent a reason and celebrate.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Xopher, your readiness to engage is one of your shining virtues. On the other hand, it’s best not to kick the politically incorrect petroleum-based effigy.

Takuan, same to you. Have a fish? They’re fresh this afternoon.

Lizardman @158:

Teresa,
Wow, another person that knows my life so much better than I do myself. BB certainly has become a wealth of people who know my mind and experiences better than I do lately.

I don’t know your life, and I never said I did. What I do know is your writing. It’s right there on the page, naked for all to see.

Your personal attacks on my experience and education are the grade C trolling here.

Tu quoque? That’s the best you can do, even after you’ve been told you’re being a bore?

I never tried to hijack the thread.

Yeah, you did. The entry isn’t about how irrational religion is, and you didn’t build a connection to make it so. I explained this in my last comment.

I expressed an opinion NOT off-topic as it was in the context of a reply to a comment in this thread (#17), then made an unrelated observation (#28), found my first comment was disemvowelled and re-phrased it (#35), was accused of hypocrisy (please note that I did not introduce the notion hypocrisy that was Xopher attacking me) and addressed the accuser’s post line by line (more or less at his request) #75 & #152.

That’s hardly accurate. Are you somehow under the impression that I can’t read the rest of the thread and see what’s gone on? You may not be a very acute reader, but that says nothing about the abilities of anyone else here.

I am laughing and it feels good – don’t be sore

I’m not sore. I’m bored, and it’s getting worse by the minute.

that you don’t know or get what exactly it is that is making me laugh. You perceived tone in my writing is just more of your baseless and false presumptions about my mind.

Boyo, you wish. I’ve been an editor for decades now, and “happy and laughing: yes or no?” is not a tough call.

monkeygirl

Of course, what makes this even better is that John McCain became a “natural born” citizen through an Act of Congress. (He was born in Panama to two US citizens.) So, the birthers would have something to complain about no matter who won in 2008.

Takuan

these interspecies relationships seldom work out. Could I just have you for dinner?

Stefan Jones

I think the President should visit Major Cook at Leavenworth, and present him with a laminated, notarized copy of his birth certificate.

Sorry . . . make that Private Cook.

Brainspore

His unit is being sent to fight a war started by a man he DOES acknowledge was President, so what’s the problem?

spocko

In San Francisco Talk Radio Host Brian Sussman on KSFO is a “birther” I don’t know what he says about the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star.

I suppose if he believed that the certificate was forged then the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star were forged as well.

It’s not just entertainment for these people. The whole “He’s not a NBC!” is a big thing that they can use to justify lots of nastiness.

The most recent shooter at the Holocaust Museum was a ‘birther’.

Takuan

there’s no need for these new labels you know. “Bigoted, ignorant crank” is still just fine. Whatever current crack-pottery they cleave to doesn’t really matter, for is it not written; “the loons we will always have with us”?

The Lizardman

@Avram

Being smarter than you and I doesn’t mean they are thinking clearly and certainly has no bearing on my statement. I take your point about being insulting but the rest is non sequitur

thanks for my first disemvoweling and I will re-phrase that portion of my comment perhaps more to your liking:

As an atheist it seems to me that being a birther while nutty is potentially less nutty than belief in mythological / supernatural beings and forces which is common among many high ranking members of the military. Of course, they probably think being an atheist is nuttier than being a birther too.

Takuan

a credit to good cetaceans everywhere.

J France

Take a picture, folks, is this indicative of the American military?

Something’s horribly wrong with the world when it’s guys like this being lauded as fighting the good fight for democracy. Especially when in their world view it’s probably closer to “smashing the Muslims good”.

White supremacists, racists, conspiracy theory nutbags. All with guns, all informing chunks of the middle east as to what US citizens are like. Yikes!

Modusoperandi

Xopher “ModusOperandi, don’t click here.”
Ahh! I’m torn by the opposing pulls of “me not clicking on links because my mom told me that the interweb was dangerous” and “showing that you aren’t the boss of me”!

Anonymous

I wonder what the Major’s political affiliation is. If he’s a Republican, he may not be so for long, since he’s essentially calling the ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY INCOMPETENT with his position.

Surely if there was some proof that Barack Obama was ineligible to hold the office of President, the Republicans would have, oh, I don’t know, maybe SUED to have him ruled to be ineligible and likely won the election easily? Or maybe they’re just waiting to find a lawyer willing to take the case? It’s not like the Republicans know a lot of lawyers, after all …

Xopher

Nah, it’s just an explanation of bilabial fricatives. Put right there in front of you, so you can’t claim that I went and told you when you asked me not to, but so you probably won’t be able to resist clicking it and finding out.

You will do it to yourself. You know you will. It’s inevitable.

Why yes, I do have a sadistic streak. Why do you ask?

P1rat3

I wonder if Major Cook and the rest of the birthers would have been doing the same thing if McCain had won the election instead of Obama. Considering the fact that John McCain was born in Panama and is only technically a citizen because he was spawned on a naval base. The requirement is that to be President one must be a “Natural born citizen”, and ever since 1790 they have never been clear on what exactly that means. Indeed, to quote the below article “in 1964, the Supreme Court seemed to say, without deciding, that “natural born” meant born inside the United States.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028

Methinks Major Cook and the members of the current birther movement would have been very, very quiet if their candidate had won.

Antinous / Moderator

the Supreme Court seemed to say, without deciding, that “natural born” meant born inside the United States.

Idiots. Obviously we can’t have a President who was born by Caesarean section.

Anonymous

Modus – don’t click… the pictures are shocking…

noahveil

Demand Abraham Lincoln’s birth certificate! Nobody has ever seen it so he wasn’t really president, the south has retroactively won the Civil War and Barack Obama is rightly a slave who should be working in a cotton farm in Virginia.

The Lizardman

“Troof, I hope he does come back, and actually addresses some of my points. I take no joy in swatting him down for its own sake, much as he may believe the opposite.” #139 Xopher

Wow, delusion of grandeur much? Also, nice touch continuing to presume to know what I may believe/know. Tell you what, I will give you your hope (not that, as previously stated, I ever really left) but in return I am going ask that you do the same and actually address mine since you blissfully overlooked / ignored so much of my previous posts in your march to self-certitude.

And now, going line by through Xopher’s post #83:

“Lizardman, as others have pointed out, that conversation is tired, and very much off-topic here.”

Have to admit I am not totally sure about which conversation but almost regardless I would say that it is not tired (I dont think conversations get tired) but likely concur it to be somewhat off-topic

“YOU brought up religion and associated it with birthers.”

True, but I think it relevant to remember that I did so while responding to the context of a previous post (#12 PFLINT) that conjectured about the correlation between clear thinking and attaining the rank of Major in the army. My point then and now being that in my opinion being devoutly religious is not particularly clear thinking and if anything helps one gain rank. I said it more generally then (and do think the case can be made for all systems generally referred to as religions) but was, as one might suspect, thinking specifically of the various flavors of christianity. In the world that I live in belief in forged documents and conspiracies is far closer to the realm of possibility than virgin birth and resurrection.

“YOU then whined and sniveled when someone suggested a correlation between being a birther and being Texan.”

You call this one line whining and sniveling?

“Great, more Texas bashing – I think BB needs a godwin equivalent for this” (me #28)

I’d say that is pretty debatable because I would call that pointing to the likelihood of Texas bashing to occur – cause that is what I thought I was doing along with rolling my eyes and having a laugh at the silliness of it, particularly the old myth about power lines that was in there. Of course, it makes it much easier to paint your picture if you just change the landscape to suit what is already on your canvas, eh?. (More on this later where it becomes of greater relevance)

“You are ignorant of the fact that not all religions involve any belief in the existence of god(s), or indeed any required beliefs at all.”

Again you presume knowledge of what I do or do not know. I am not at all ignorant of this claim – I say claim because I believe you are correct when you say not all religions involve belief in the existence of god(s) but I do not agree with the latter part about required beliefs – I can see a case for it but then this becomes a discussion on the definition of religion. Granted I should have been more specific about the religions I had in mind but I do still think what I said can be applied more broadly – that involves a number of other conversations and definition wrangling so I put it aside for now with the mea culpa that I was at the very least ineloquent.

“It’s no more unfair to say “Texans are stupid enough to believe in birther nonsense” than it is to say the same about religious people.”

But I did not say the same about religious people, what I said was that religious beliefs were, in my view, even less supported than the views of the birthers and did so in the context of saying that clear thinking is not a prerequisite for rank in the military. Did you really read my posts or just pick out some words to be angry about? I didn’t say religious people are stupid or even stupid enough to believe in birther nonsense, I said that religious beliefs are similar to birther beliefs in their lack of support – which is a wholly different type of claim.

“Plenty unfair, in my opinion, but that doesn’t matter to the question of your hypocrisy, which is so ingrained you don’t even notice it.”

Well that is how hypocrisy generally works but lets take a good look at this claim you make for my hypocrisy. Well, lets do that after this next little bit of your diatribe.

“In addition, just because YOU think religious beliefs aren’t in any way separate from beliefs about the everyday world doesn’t mean that religious people make no such distinction.”

First, I am hardly as alone in this position as you seem to imply by capitalizing ‘YOU”. Second, just because they make the distinction doesn’t mean the distinction is justified – this is yet another debate.

“I assume you believe no religious person should be allowed to sit on a jury, since you think they can’t distinguish between things-to-be-believed-only-based-on-evidence and things-to-be-taken-on-faith, but they can and doâ€”and if you do believe that, in order not to be a hypocrite you must also volunteer to serve on jurys as often as you’re eligible, and urge all your atheist friends to do the same.”

You assume and you assume incorrectly. I have no problem with religious people on juries provided they do the job as it is proscribed. This is a case by case thing – some people can put aside their religiously motivated positions on issues and decide things based solely on the laws of man and others can’t – there isn’t an easy way to tell unfortunately though who is who. As for jury duty, I am happy to serve

“Sorry, you get a FAIL on all that. Hypocrite, I call you, and hypocrite you are.You are unwilling to be called stupid and ignorant for stupid, ignorant reasons (i.e. being Texan), yet you are willing to be just as stupid and ignorant about another class of people. Wash your own neck before you tell me mine is dirty.”

I am not unwilling to be called stupid or ignorant for stupid or ignorant reasons – in fact, I prefer that when I am called stupid or ignorant that it be fore stupid or ignorant reasons because that makes it all the easier to laugh off and/or counter. Even if I was willing to be stupid and ignorant about another class of people (I’m not and per this particular class of people – religious people – I have years of professional academic and personal study invested, again you presume knowledge of my knowledge) that wouldn’t be hypocrisy by the definitions I am familiar with. I posted a definition for hypocrisy in comment #75 and commented on how what I have said and my intentions in saying it, while distasteful to you, does not qualify. You blissfully ignored this portion of my comment and simply plowed ahead with your foregone conclusion rather than address these points. And please explain about the neck washing, where did I tell you that your neck was dirty and how exactly would my own dirty neck make me wrong about yours being dirty?

I can see how you can think I was being hypocritical but your view seems to hinge upon the false notion that I was bashing religious people while saying Texas bashing had to stop. I was not, I was pointing out the likelihood of texas bashing and laughing it – please bash texas to your heart’s content because it gives me a giggle and supports my idea for a texas equivalent to godwin. I will gladly support your religious equivalent for godwin as it seems accurate as well.

Finally, a note on moderation policy – it occurs to me now to wonder why a perceived insult (I would rather say a critical evaluation of probable reality of claims) to religion gets disemvowelled but a clear insult to all residents of a state is left alone.

The Lizardman

“HA! Lizardman FLOUNCES! Watch that door, it swings.

Troof, flounces being what they are, I’m not sure Lizardman is gone for good.”

Gone for good, where did I even say I was leaving? I mentioned my plan to go re-watch the PPV (which I did) as an indication of of what would be a lack of response for awhile (and as a dig towards your self-righteous hypocrisy for claiming MMA should be banned in another thread) – similar to but not as lengthy as ‘done for the night’ something you see on many threads. I might try to discuss any number of points further but you have demonstrated nothing but an inability to read my posts for comphrehension thus far and I don’t see that changing. But I am not, and never was leaving BB or even this thread.

Please continue though because I am laughing and it feels good.

Anonymous

Lizardman… http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/07/14/video-gallery-the-hu.html

dbarak

Two words: Chicken shit.

@ #34 posted by P1rat3

I see your point, but if McCain had won the election, I have no doubt that Cook would try to find some other way out. I think it would be easier for him if he claimed status as a conscientious objector.

Xopher

*eyeroll* What are you, twelve? Honestly, you can do better than that.

Jack Daniel

Didn’t know all that stuff about McCain’s birthplace. I wonder if he considered running as a Latino.

Modusoperandi

Xopher “You will do it to yourself. You know you will. It’s inevitable.”
I did (in my imagination). It was pretty awesome (in my imagination).

bardfinn

Can I be the judge that tries his case?

“GWB ordered the deployment of your unit to afghanistan while in office. Case closed. Next!”

cycle23

Smug Buddhists are almost as bad as Mathematics PhDs.

Plenty of atheists in Texas, FWIW.

Disemvoweling the mild religious joke was a bit surprising to me, must have some sky wizard lover on board.

Belief is still the only truth, after saying all of that, and I’d bet dollars to donuts the man doing this firmly believes he is right, but should also firmly be shown how humans define reality, and hopefully he gets the same treatment he’d want to be given to any other deserter.

Xopher

Demidan 25: Georgia, I’m told by someone from Atlanta.

LizardMan 26: Great, more Texas bashing – I think BB needs a godwin equivalent for this

Good idea! How about this: “As a thread in BB progresses, the probability that some idiot will pop up and bash religious people as stupid and crazy approaches one.”

Oh, wait, I meant ‘Texans’.

Your hypocrisy stuns me.

Xopher

Wow, ModusOperandi, I didn’t know you were that flexible (in your imagination).

Anonymous

@40:

Barack was from his mother’s womb untimely ripped!

Xopher

And Lizardman? You have no idea how much self-restraint it took not to write ‘your hypocrisy, even for a Texan‘…but you’re actually right about that part. It’s your dissing of “religious people” that’s just stupid.

Modusoperandi

I am. I am, indeed (in my imagination).

Now, can we please get back to how nutty some people are? I hate it when people lead threads wildly off-topic.

Takuan

gawds, I hate religious Texans.

Takuan

? how does someone living in abject poverty and cursed by all conflate with buddhists?

pinehead

The BS is deep with this one.
If he’s scared to go into active duty, that’s common. But it sounds like he’s cracking-up. If he just refuses to stop acting like a ninny, then he might really need to be checked into the macadamia ranch for a few months, then discharged.

Xopher

If I’m not mistaken, the current state of the law is that anyone born within the borders of the United States, regardless of parentage, AND anyone born to parents at least one of whom is a US Citizen, regardless of location of birth, is an NBC.

I am not a lawyer and the above is not legal advice. I cannot diagnose or prescribe. Void where prohibited, limited, or taxed. Color and consistency may vary. Do not bounce Happy Fun Ball.

Takuan

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/07/14/sorry-texas-youre-still-doomed/

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Takuan, you know I’d taste funny.

Anonymous

Update: The major’s orders have been recinded! Case closed. Questions remain unanswered. This will not go away until settled by the supreme court (in O’s favor) but still interesting…

Takuan

say, does anyone know if this Cook is a racist?

syncrotic

Damn right. Everyone knows that Barack Obama was born in some dirty foreign country and went to school at a hard-line madrassa. OBAMA, OSAMA: a coincidence? I think not.

You know this is true; your gut tells you that it is. Believe it.

dbarak

@ #42 posted by Takuan

“gawds, I hate religious Texans.”

Is there any other kind?

Takuan

there’s the kind, intelligent, well-lettered kind like our Tenn.

Takuan

funny? I’d expect nothing less than witty and sometimes down right hilarious. Just a spare limb perhaps? mmmm?

Takuan

perhaps I should amend that: “Gawds, I hate religious primates.”

dbarak

@ #49 posted by Takuan

Is Tenn a poster here? Mea culpas all around. :)

cycle23

The detailed argument here also makes me wish boingboing allowed inline pics, so someone could post the “Even if you win an argument on the internet…” pic.

Stefan Jones

I don’t think Cook is crazy, or a coward.

What he is is a member of a clique of intolerant assholes who are high on resentment over the fact that a black guy made it into the White House.

As others have suggested up above, no amount of proof will convince the “Birthers” that their core belief is hogwash. Their delusion allows them the luxury of wallowing in self-righteous intolerant fury. The incontestable fact of Obama’s election has disproved a deeply held belief — that only conservative whites are the only “real” Americans and fit for high office — that they can’t come right out and admit to.

I think Cook belongs in jail; I wouldn’t want the jerk representing our country on the battlefield.

Xopher

If I’m not mistaken, Takuan, Tenn is religious. She’s a Buddhist. That may be an unusual religion in Texas, but she still counts as a “religious Texan,” as do my very liberal, Obama-voting, churchgoing friends in Houston.

Takuan

buddhism is not a religion.

DWittSF

He must be joining Sarah Palin’s new Quitter Party.

Xopher

OK, Takuan, now you’ve switched into your “space cookie who will argue with anything or anyone just out of pure orneriness” mode. When you do that, I back slowly away.

*backs slowly away*

DWittSF

Speaking of illegal immigrants, don’t forget that in 2007, the California State GOP hired an illegal immigrant from Australia, Michael Kamburowski, to be its CEO.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/24/MNGIUQKUID1.DTL

The Lizardman

“I don’t know your life, and I never said I did. What I do know is your writing. It’s right there on the page, naked for all to see. ”

As is your writing which very plainly contradicts this, re-read your own portion that begins with ‘three more short bits’. And allow me to pre-emptively say that if your retort is that this passage should be taken as to mean that you simply meant you were unconvinced by my words well, I will be equally unconvinced by yours if those are the ones you choose. If it wasn’t your intent to imply that I do not have experience I have claimed but rather to claim that I am doing a poor job of expressing having that experience then you did a piss poor job my dear. As dense as you seem to think I am, I’m not so dense as to miss your vitriol there.

“That’s hardly accurate. Are you somehow under the impression that I can’t read the rest of the thread and see what’s gone on? You may not be a very acute reader, but that says nothing about the abilities of anyone else here.”

Hardly accurate? – I referenced all of my posts on this thread, if others got derailed by it how is that my fault? Before blaming me for the actions of others how about telling what was innaccurate about my description of those (my) posts. I did not try nor intend to hijack the thread. Stop trying to read my mind or at least do a better job.

“I’m not sore. I’m bored, and it’s getting worse by the minute. ”

Really? When I am bored I usually simply walk away but I gues we’re different sorts of people but thats not news anymore is it. You stand by your pyschic reads of me, I will go by my psychic reads or you.

“Boyo, you wish. I’ve been an editor for decades now, and “happy and laughing: yes or no?” is not a tough call.”

Now that is most smug thing I have read in a long time and it actually is now the leading cause of my laughter. Since I doubt you would ever get it and it seems a sore point for you I will share the two things I am laughing at here the most until your smugness took the lead:

#1 – myself

#2 – (a very close second) the mental image of this across the table from me having this talk in person:

TroofSeeker

Methinks Major Kook is having doubts. This ain’t Obama’s war at all- it’s Dubya’s. Maybe Kook knows in his heart that it’s stupid and useless, and sending our guys (especially himself) to that hellhole is just making it convenient for them to kill Americans. It saves Al Quada a lot of trouble and expense when we send Ameican targets to their home towns.

failix

@MDH:

It shouldn’t offend. There’s no need to get offended as long as you can respond to such criticism. But as long as people like Xopher will be around to act all outraged when somebody dares to criticize religious people, a “perceived insult to religion” will get more likely disemvowelled than a clear insult to residents of a state.

Takuan

a code of conduct does not constitute a “religion”. Considering what has been done in the name of “religion”, buddhism is well out of it. Only the deluded “pray to buddha”.

Takuan

http://washingtonindependent.com/51798/key-birther-lawyer-was-disbarred-in-2004

noen

“There’s a Black man in the White House.” Really, that’s all this boils down to.

Ground Zero for the OBAMA BIRF CERTIFAAKIT controversy is Pam “vault copy” Geller aka Altas Shrugged

ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FINAL REPORT ON OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE FORGERY CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN

Do be careful though as she is weapons grade stupid. You’ve been warned.

Xopher

Maybe we need another law: “As a thread on BB progresses, the probability that someone will deny that a well-established religion is a religion based on some incredibly narrow definition approaches one.”

Kooky Kook

Consider this quote

“â€œWhen Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdomâ€™s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.â€˜s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.â€”

Taken from here:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

This quote clearly indicates that Obama had Dual Citizenship at birth.

Now to ask the question if we can reconcile that with the requirement that a president be a ‘Natural Born Citizen’.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Liz — What am I supposed to do now? Complain to Antinous that you’re threatening to bleed on me?

bibulb

@42 :
Aww, Tak, whaddaya got ‘gainst all the good Texan pagans?

Although – let’s not go into the “X is/is not a religion” thing. When Shrub was Governor here, one of the things he tried to do was claim that pagans didn’t get protection for practice of their religion, as the various forms of paganism “weren’t real religions”. As such, a number of friends got just a tetch upset.)

Also also : the Spouse asks “and what about those Texas Jewboys?” I think you made poor Kinky cry!
(Actually, you made him chuckle through his cigar, but still…)

mdh

@failix,

A direct insult towards another commenter is still more likely to get dmv’d than any of that. Being incendiary is indeed fun, but there are more fun places to do it.

kaosmonkey

#55

If I joined her Quitter Party, would I be able to subscribe to her Queets?

Xopher

Aptly-named person at 60, dual citizenship is no barrier to NBC. Why on Earth should it be? If you’re a citizen of the US by right of birth, the fact that you’re ALSO a citizen of Great Britain by right of birth takes nothing from that.

BiBulb, I didn’t know Shrub had done that. Every time I think I know what a scumbag that guy is, I learn something that shows he’s even scummier than I thought.

I sure hope he dies in a humiliating and painful way, and soon.

The Lizardman

Teresa – Confusing. But if you think that would help anything, I say go for it.

â™¥ â™¥ â™¥

Who cares why the dude’s refusing orders, the important thing is that he’s refusing orders. That’s one less guy willing to fight in our crappy imperialistic wars, whatever his strained logic may be. Imagine if Republicans start quitting the military en masse over this — it would be awesome, however ridiculously unlikely.

“The more insurrection, the better.”
– Some Smart Guy.

However, this also highlights how devastating the logic of military service is. Most soldiers are willing to do just about any horrible thing in the name of their country — invade other countries, torture people, bomb civilians, etc. — their only reservation being whether the orders come from the proper authority (and I suspect that those in the ranks who see Obama as illegitimate are reaffirmed by their belief that The Great Lord Himself has blessed their mission of ridding the world of Islamic fundamentalism).

eviladrian

So what if the bloke was born overseas? He’s been working for American communities since before I was born. Is it really impossible for an immigrant to ever earn your trust?

Takuan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElDtH7rP3T0

Xopher

Shorter me @ 63, to Kooky Kook: There’s a reason it’s called DUAL citizenship, not DIVIDED citizenship. Full rights in both.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

Went right over you head.

Xopher

EvilAdrian, who’s the ‘your’ there? Remember that only a few kooks think Obama’s citizenship isn’t legitimate, or distrust him on the grounds that he was born overseas (though of course he wasn’t).

Americans in general aren’t all that distrustful of immigrants. Einstein for a good example, and Kissinger for a bad one. We never quite trusted Werner von Braun, but then…well, you know.

Of course, brown-skinned immigrants are treated very differently in this country than white-skinned ones, but many, many of us consider this fact a source of national shame, including me.

Fletcherism

I am going to forget about all the strongly worded, concise, applause-worthy comments i was going to post and be crass instead. My 18-year-old-self wants to say this:

“Oh, Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook; i am so sorry your pussy hurts.”

Now that i have said that, i really must grow up =)

Xopher

And…the accents usually associated with the use of the word ‘bloke’ are widely considered sexy here. Just so you know. Even, or in some cases especially, if they’re the ones considered lower-class in their place of origin, like the ones where ‘th’ is a bilabial fricative, and so on.

Sexy makes people trust even where they shouldn’t.

Xopher

*beats Fletcherism’s 18-year-old self’s peachfuzzed ass until it’s red and swollen, with a paddle that prints ‘I will not be a sexist pig’ on every stroke*

Anonymous

I’m glad I’m not the only one who immediately glommed onto the fact that his lawyer’s name is ORLY.

O RLY?

LOL.

What a total doofus this guy is. Seriously. I want to knock on his forehead a la Chet in Weird Science and go “HELLO???? HELLO!!?!??!??!”

Rick.

Al takes a drag off of his cigar, then exclaims, “Sam…Ziggy says there’s an 87.3% chance that you’re here, in Honolulu in 1961, to make sure Barack Obama becomes president!”

eviladrian

Uhh, Xopher are you coming onto me? ;-)

I’m Australian, and have no plans to move to the US and run for President, but we’ve had foreign-born Prime Minsters here without them selling the silverware to their cousins.

Given the huge contributions made by America’s immigrants, shouldn’t there be some stage in the citizenship process where they gain equality with people who happened to be born there?

Modusoperandi

Teresa: Python references go over all but the most enlightened heads.

remmelt

Hold on, if the pinko’s have a time machine, couldn’t the have moved Mrs Obama to the US a couple of weeks before the birth of her son?

That would seem like a more natural and easy thing to do than forge a couple of newspaper entries…

But hey, logic is never a strong suit on people who believe in conspiracy theories.

The Lizardman

Xopher,

Hmm, hypocrisy is usually defined along the following lines:

the act of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have

I haven’t done that at all, rather what I have done is expressed my opinion that the beliefs of birthers seem to me to have the an equal or lesser degree of reasonable support as the beliefs underlying most religions while also, unrelatedly, noting the likelihood of someone on a BB thread bashing Texas (nearly apropos of nothing).

If you have evidence of the existence of god(s) that meets better than standards than that presented by the birthers in support of their claims I would love to see it. Also, any insult I have given here to those religious faiths absolutely pales in comparison to the near daily abuse and insults I have born from them as a non-believer. Consider it a small mark towards balancing the accounts.

Religion is not special, it should not get a pass that makes it wrong to discuss religious views as we discuss any others – such as, in this case, the views of birthers. Instead of crying please don’t diss religion, let religion stand up for itself and meet the standards we demand of any other set of claims.

TroofSeeker

Man, this is fun!
I just want to remind you guys that just because someone is wrong doesn’t mean they’re stupid. All you guys are very smart, from what I’ve seen, yet all of you are wrong, a little bit. And all of you are ‘weird’ enough to realize that you hold some views that not many share. Now play nice, kids.
-TroofSeeker [part dolphin]

buddy66

Xopher, my man, I knew a lot of Buddhists in San Francisco and at Tassajara, and few of them, if any, thought of their practice as a religion; it was described to me as more of a discipline or a way of living. (Hell, I even *sat* for a couple of years myself, but my mind was, and perhaps still is, the proverbial “drunken monkey.”) One of my monkish friends was amused when a tolerant Christian visitor at the Zen Center allowed that “We all worship God in our own way.”

Xopher

Why no, EvilAdrian. It was about the trust thing. I would not come on to you unless you stood before me a) being attractive and b) behaving in such a fashion as to suggest that you might be receptive to my attentions. And perhaps not then, depending on my state of attachment. I warn you, also, that my described behavior in 71, while pure fantasy, is not by any means outside my repertoire (except that the paddle would probably print ‘BOY’ or something).

As for your other question, for most purposes immigrants do reach as stage where they are considered equal to native-born citizens; for example, they are allowed, even when they have no real qualifications of any kind, to become the wholly incompetent governor of one of our most important states, by virtue of the fact that a majority of the voters in that state are, and keep proving themselves to be, star-struck and credulous boneheads of the most egregious kind.

However, the office of President is different. Our Constitution specifies that to run for that office one must be an NBC. One must also be at least 35 years old, though in all other respects 34- and 35-year-olds are equal in our society. Remember that our Constitution was written right after we threw off the yoke of George III’s oppression, and we didn’t want some British con artist coming in and taking over. Or something like that.

Xopher

Well, that is a picture of me (actually two pictures of me). Did you really go to all the trouble of hunting that down, Lizard, or are you someone I’ve met online before? Pretty pathetic, either way.

Since you’re apparently too stupid to figure it out, laughter was the intended effect of that picture, so saying you’re laughing at it isn’t exactly the insult you were intending. Or maybe it’s the implied threat of “see, I can find you” that you mean?

Gods (if any), what a creepy reptilian* loser you are. Your text in that post, all of it, amounts to “I’m rubber, you’re glue.” Call us when you graduate from 5th grade, huh?

Everyone else: If you’re curious what I look like, I look like the person mugging in the picture Lizardo posted (not, of course, like the mugs themselves). Look now, and don’t wait long.

Also, I believe that from now on I will adopt Lizardo’s idiom, and use “I’m laughing and it feels good” to mean “I’m in pain and I don’t know what to do.”
___
*Can’t be an insult either, come to think of it: you announce your reptilian nature with your very name.

Brainspore

There is a school of thought in some circles that the fourteenth amendment already establishes the right of foreign-born citizens to be elected president.

The only reason the legality isn’t clearer on the issue is that, thus far, no foreign-born citizens have come anywhere near winning the presidency and so no court has yet issued a ruling on it.

Antinous / Moderator

There’s a one-word answer to the foreign-born President question: Arnold.

ill lich

The great thing about believing in conspiracy theories is that, once you are a true believer, no facts or logic can convince you otherwise, because when something perfectly proves you wrong, then it’s “too perfect” and must have been manufactured.

So all those tea-baggers who hold up signs reading “show us the REAL birth certificate!” won’t be satisfied with the real birth certificate when it’s shown to them, but ironically if I made a detailed fake birth certificate that showed Obama was born in Kenya, they probably would believe that.

Tdawwg

If you have evidence of the existence of god(s) that meets better than standards than that presented by the birthers in support of their claims I would love to see it.

Apples and oranges. God’s existence needn’t be proved in court, unlike, say, the legal matter of citizenship. You’ve got your categories mixed up: the “truth” of faith and the “truth” of the law are different truths.

Also, any insult I have given here to those religious faiths absolutely pales in comparison to the near daily abuse and insults I have born from them as a non-believer. Consider it a small mark towards balancing the accounts.

Aw, sniff sniff.

Hate makes more hate: there’s no canceling out of forces, or balancing of accounts. You CAN work through the sadness of that abuse and those insults you suffered in a number of ways, and maybe balance your feelings about them: but increasing antipathy around the subject of religion is a maladaptive way of doing so. And I rather doubt those mean believers that were cruel to you are of the caliber of the folks you’d find here. Try dialoguing with us: we neither bite nor throw holy water!

xxuviolkd

Um, the first 8 or so US presidents were born on foreign soil to non-US citizens… Where’s the uproar.

Xopher

Lizardman, as others have pointed out, that conversation is tired, and very much off-topic here. YOU brought up religion and associated it with birthers. YOU then whined and sniveled when someone suggested a correlation between being a birther and being Texan.

You are ignorant of the fact that not all religions involve any belief in the existence of god(s), or indeed any required beliefs at all. It’s no more unfair to say “Texans are stupid enough to believe in birther nonsense” than it is to say the same about religious people. Plenty unfair, in my opinion, but that doesn’t matter to the question of your hypocrisy, which is so ingrained you don’t even notice it.

In addition, just because YOU think religious beliefs aren’t in any way separate from beliefs about the everyday world doesn’t mean that religious people make no such distinction. I assume you believe no religious person should be allowed to sit on a jury, since you think they can’t distinguish between things-to-be-believed-only-based-on-evidence and things-to-be-taken-on-faith, but they can and doâ€”and if you do believe that, in order not to be a hypocrite you must also volunteer to serve on jurys as often as you’re eligible, and urge all your atheist friends to do the same.

Sorry, you get a FAIL on all that. Hypocrite, I call you, and hypocrite you are. You are unwilling to be called stupid and ignorant for stupid, ignorant reasons (i.e. being Texan), yet you are willing to be just as stupid and ignorant about another class of people. Wash your own neck before you tell me mine is dirty.

Buddy66, my excellent friend! There are more forms of Buddhism than are dreamt of in yourâ€” I mean, more than just Zen. And while the comment of that liberal Christian was ignorant and insulting, I would like to point out that not all religions involve “belief in” god(s), or even “belief in” anything, and that to deny that something is a religion based solely on its being non-theistic is a poisonous meme in society, and will lead to attempts like Shrub’s.

For example, while I am Wiccan by training and practice, Wicca doesn’t emphasize theology. The answer to “what do Wiccans believe?” is “whatever they want.” Theologically, I’m a Radical Pantheist: I take the universe exactly as it is, value scientific endeavorâ€”and choose to worship it. I have no belief that the universe as a whole is sentient; I don’t see why that should be a criterion for worthiness for worship. Benevolence, too, is irrelevant.

It’s ultimately irrational, because circular, to decide that all religions have false beliefs because anything with no false beliefs isn’t a religion. That just defines religion to serve a pre-existing agenda; and as I pointed out above, the agenda it serves best is a right-wing one.

Xopher

Yes, Antinous, that was the horrible example I was pointing to. I’m not sure the general electorate of the United States is less star-struck and credulous than the electorate of California, so I’m happy to keep the native-born rule for now!

The Lizardman

Xopher,

I meant no insult by linking that image. I was picturing you (per that photo) across a table from me (with my equally ridiculous appearance) and putting our respective posts in our mouths as dialogue and I found (and still find) the result to be comically entertaining.

I know laughter was the intent of that photo – really what else could it be. How desperate are you to have occassion to act offended anyway?

And you might want to change your tactic of calling me childish in various ways because I see it as a compliment.

You strike me as someone who doesn’t know how to enjoy laughing at themself so looking at it that way is probably the right move for you.

–

And yeah, I totally missed the python reference but its a good two decades since I last watched with any regularity, still sometimes listen to the albums though.

Modusoperandi

Xopher “…bilabial fricative…”
I don’t know what that is, but it sounds delightfully filthy.

error404

nothing to do with Obama failing to prove he’s American.

All to do with a racist wing ding dressing his bigotry up in the flag.

De Jure and De facto racism.

Just coz they ain’t wearing the pointy white hats nowadays doesn’t mean it it isn’t happening

Xopher

Fail IX, asked and answered. RTFT.

Xopher

ModusOperandi, do you want me to tell you, or are you enjoying the filthy fantasy too much?

Takuan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NYR5oCCWHk

Baldhead

It seems to me that regardless of what they may claim, the Birthers’ argument stems from racism- I doubt it’s pure coincidence that the first time this gets brought up (or at least gets taken seriously by a large numer of people) is when a POC with an arabic- sounding name gets elected president.

And since the whole movement can be regarded as bsically racist, and the US military has rules about that, can’t they just court- martial the guy?

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

I’m with Stefan, Noen, Ill Lich, and Anonymous @105 (except for the part where Anon said “civil political discourse is a thing of the past.”) If Major Cook were acting on principle, he’d have to also believe that the Bank of the United States still exists, Nullification is still a valid principle of our government, and the Five Civilized Tribes still own their original lands east of the Mississippi, since the the location and circumstances of Andrew Jackson’s birth are far more dubious and undocumented than Obama’s.

I’m sure some of them are unacknowledged racists, but more of them simply object to having a Democrat in the White House. As I observed back in 2000, way too many Republican operatives appeared to be acting on the assumption that their party would never fall out of power. Graydom Saunders made the same observation years before I did, when he explained the far right’s bizarre and obsessive hatred of the Clintons by saying the Republicans had let themselves imagine that they had a permanent majority and would always be in power. Clinton’s first victory infuriated them, and his second victory made them batshit crazy.

I’m glad it makes them miserable and crazy, because having a party that never falls out of power is only possible if you no longer have a democracy. I’m not willing to give that up. Let them suffer.

Takuan @50:

perhaps I should amend that: “Gawds, I hate religious primates.”

So what am I, a dolphin?

Not all arguments that can be made should be made.

Noen @58:

Ground Zero for the OBAMA BIRF CERTIFAAKIT controversy is Pam “vault copy” Geller aka Altas Shrugged … Do be careful though as she is weapons grade stupid. You’ve been warned.

Pam Geller is extremely stupid, but it doesn’t matter. The point is that Ann Coulter is played out and showing her age, so Geller is auditioning to fill her ecological niche. The terms of that gig are that she can say anything as long as it’s sufficiently outrageous and she wears a short skirt while she’s saying it.

ThreeHearts @64:

However, this also highlights how devastating the logic of military service is. Most soldiers are willing to do just about any horrible thing in the name of their country — invade other countries, torture people, bomb civilians, etc. — their only reservation being whether the orders come from the proper authority…

Wrong. I hope that statement doesn’t proceed from ignorance and cheap cynicism in your case, as it seems to do in so many others. Serving military operate under rules, or are supposed to, and there are legal penalties for breaking those rules. Read this piece. It was written during the Iraq war by a retired military officer, and many of the people who picked it up and re-posted it had military backgrounds as well. By contrast, the Bush administration, which made unprecedented claims about the U.S. military not being subject to the normal battlefield rules, was unusually short on officeholders with military backgrounds.

Lizardman: You’re a boring grade-C troll, and you’ve taken up far more mindspace than you deserve. You observed that birthers are irrational, then asserted that people who believe in religion are likewise irrational. It wasn’t much of an argument, probably because you don’t know much about religion. I expect you’ve read Richard Dawkins, and believe that entitles you to a great deal of our time and attention. It doesn’t. You’re still a boring grade-C troll.

You never demonstrated that theists are irrational in ways that are both equal to and related to the irrationality of Birthers. That’s what it would have taken to make your argument relevant to the rest of the discussion. Otherwise what you’re saying is “X is irrational, I assert that Y is also irrational, therefore let’s talk about Y a lot, and while we’re at it let’s make me the center of attention.” Religion isn’t getting a pass, so put away all that crap about hypocrisy. What’s happening is that you’re not being allowed to hijack the thread.

Do please stop trying. It’s not going to work. You were off-topic, you were rude, and you’re a bore. That last is the only one you can do anything about. I hope you will, for your own happiness and comfort as well as ours.

Three more short bits. First, never say “I am laughing and it feels good” when you aren’t. We may not be able to see you, but quite a few of us can hear the tone of your writing, and it doesn’t match.

Second:

I have years of professional academic and personal study invested …

Malarkey. If you did, it would show on the page, and it doesn’t.

Third:

any insult I have given here to those religious faiths absolutely pales in comparison to the near daily abuse and insults I have born from them as a non-believer.

Malarkey again. I flat-out refuse to believe that theists of any stripe have been paying you that much attention.

Aeschenkarnos @98: Antinous and the rest of the mod squad will not love you if you try to turn the thread into a discussion of the Second Amendment.

Failix @130: Do you have to make things so complicated? Can’t you just say “I am stupid” and get it over with?

TDawwg, Xopher, don’t scare me like that. There’s already enough never-repaired breakage on this site without adding “recent comments” to the list.

buddy66

We grandfathered The Fathers.

Modusoperandi

Xopher: No, don’t! If past experience is any indicator, the picture in my head will invariably exceed reality. Or, if you must, use your sexy voice.

Modusoperandi

TroofSeeker “I just want to remind you guys that just because someone is wrong doesn’t mean they’re stupid.”
I’m both. Take that, me!

Anonymous

I am eagerly waiting for right-wing talkers to excoriate Major Cook as an anti-American coward for refusing to deploy, the way they did Lt. Ehren Watada.

Someohow, I think I will be waiting a long time.

JoeKickass

I wonder, what proof would the good Major accept that Mr. Obama was born in the USA?

That’s the trouble with these conspiracies, once you buy into them deep enough no amount of rational fact based arguing is going to change your mind.

Right or wrong, the US supreme court is satisfied that he was born in the USA, if it’s good enough for them it should be good enough for Major Cook. Prepare for desertion charges.

TroofSeeker

I fought this battle with a fundie friend. Even a commentator in one his wingbat far right societies was saying give it up, yet he wants to fight on. It’s just coincidence that the people he hates most- Sodomeyer, Obama and Mexican immigrants are all people of color. He’s no racist. Sure. He hates gay white people too! I compared him to that Westwood Baptist Church and I think his head exploded. That’s nice.

Tdawwg

Thou silly Xopher, thou! I meant rhetorical biting: on erotic or otherwise fun biting in meatspace Tdawwg will remain silent.

(I was being disingenuous, of course: we do a lot of rhetorical biting too. I just wanted The Lizardman to feel comfortable so we could keep arguing with him….)

Xopher

Tdawwg 81: Try dialoguing with us: we neither bite nor throw holy water!

While I absolutely love this comment, in all honesty I have to disagree with you here. While I certainly never throw holy water, I have been known to bite…usually only people who enjoy being bitten, but still. :-)

Antinous / Moderator

Birthers are the new Klingers.

Anonymous

ORLY?

Xopher

ModusOperandi: You mean that you’re a guy, and that you’re someone? I agree.

Thac0

Send him to Leavenworth for insubordination and missing movement!

Takuan

ah done had mah kiddellys blessed and nows ah pee holy water.

fataltourist

Moon landing? Yeah, right.

endospores

How hard is it to think that the Major doesn’t want to be deployed because he doesn’t want to get killed by the next roadside bomb? So he makes up a crazy story that might get him a year in leavenworth for insubordination and kicked out of the army… but it’s a surefire way to stay alive.

Dave Faris

“some kind of time travel treachery”

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work. Good luck with that, Cook, but best keep your bags packed for Afghanistan.

Jack Daniel

I guess his doctor wouldn’t write him a sick note.

Takuan

it worked!! quick, everyone do it!
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/777472.html

Ito Kagehisa

Personally, I thought Lizardman was trolled, not trolling.

Yes, Teresa, you are in fact a dolphin. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! There’s none of that molluscan stigma.

G’night, all.

Xopher

TNH 155: Lizardman: You’re a boring grade-C troll, and you’ve taken up far more mindspace than you deserve.

I would say “Teresa, you’re right,” but I don’t like to be redundant. I just let him suck me into his attention-seeking vortex, didn’t I? Thanks for being there to point out what was happening.

Modusoperandi

I’m a guy? So that explains the penis. That’s a load off my mind. I thought it was a mushroom.

The Lizardman

Xopher & TDAWWG:

Thanks for the laughs.

I’m going to go re-watch UFC 100.

TroofSeeker

The lizard may be out laying on a rock, charging his corpuscles in the warm sun for another barrage. Gird thy loins, file your teeth sharp, and get the water in your pistols blessed. He’ll be back.

deweyeyed

Do we really want to force this guy to carry a gun?

Anonymous

I would just as soon that kooks like this not be in the military.

Xopher

Lizardman, I’ve now looked at your website picture; are you really so socially stunted that you can’t see how your hunting me down on the internet, under a different posting name than I use here, and posting one of the pictures you found (doesn’t matter which one, coulda been the chocolates) would be creepy and threatening? Especially given what you look like?

In case you really are, let me put it another way: are you internet-stalking me as an intimidation tactic? If not, talk to someone who interacts with ordinary people in an ordinary way on a daily basis, and ask them to explain to you why someone might take your behavior that way.

And I deny that your appearance is “equally ridiculous.” I could not begin to approach the bizarre hideousness your grotesque body mods have wrought; and I don’t expect you take any of that as an insult, either, since you’re a sideshow performer and ‘bizarre’, ‘hideous’, and ‘grotesque’ are all selling points for you. I’m sure the shudder of horror I experienced looking at your picture was the intended effect.

Xopher

MO: I like penises. And mushrooms, for that matter, but for very different reasons and purposes.

Antinous / Moderator

Is this a conceptual art piece? A lost play by Ionesco? An imbalance in bodily humors?

Xopher

I figured as much, TDawwg. I was, as you point out, being silly. Or sill-yay, as one of my friends says it in contexts like this.

A storm of inchoate joke material involving Dawwg/dog, biting, meat(space) and so on is swirling in my head, but not coalescing into any actual jokes. Oh well.

The Lizardman

Teresa,

Wow, another person that knows my life so much better than I do myself. BB certainly has become a wealth of people who know my mind and experiences better than I do lately. Your personal attacks on my experience and education are the grade C trolling here.

I never tried to hijack the thread. I expressed an opinion NOT off-topic as it was in the context of a reply to a comment in this thread (#17), then made an unrelated observation (#28), found my first comment was disemvowelled and re-phrased it (#35), was accused of hypocrisy (please note that I did not introduce the notion hypocrisy that was Xopher attacking me) and addressed the accuser’s post line by line (more or less at his request) #75 & #152.

I am laughing and it feels good – don’t be sore that you don’t know or get what exactly it is that is making me laugh. You perceived tone in my writing is just more of your baseless and false presumptions about my mind.

Anonymous

I thought the argument was that he wasn’t natural born because both parents were not born in the U.S.

Xopher

Troof, I hope he does come back, and actually addresses some of my points. I take no joy in swatting him down for its own sake, much as he may believe the opposite.

Modusoperandi

Anonymous, #151 “On May 8, meaning that he volunteered to serve in Afghanistan while Obama was president.”
No. That was back when he thought Obama was president. Damn you, lib-rul media!

JoeKickass

@#9

Dude, he’s a MAJOR, not some green recruit with sudden cold feet. He’s presumably been regular forces for years… he’s tossing his career here (potentially… unless he’s right). ;)

Xopher

As for Major Kook, I expect his orders were rescinded because they don’t have any place for an insane major in the Icebox.

Xopher

Go look at Lizardman’s website (linked on his profile), Antinous. Would you want that cyberstalking you?

PFlint

This guy’s a major!

No, that’s it, he’s a major. Not a “major so-and-so”.

Not being “military”, I thought that becoming a major would require a certain amount of competency and clear thinking. I must be naive.

Takuan

Dear Teresa: iiikiiikik!clikclikpopsqueeee! ikikikikiki! (and I sincerely mean that about the way the moonlight falls off your flanks)

Anonymous

I guess he won’t mind if I cash those “fake” checks he’s been receiving.

buddy66

He doesn’t have to worry about Afghanistan now, but he will soon have the usual problems ducking ward assignments in the booby hatch.

TroofSeeker

Xoph- is Lizardo gone? Whisper to me what “…bilabial fricative…” means- it sounds like fun!

Xopher

Unless you mean the Lizardman himself. According to his website, he’s a conceptual art piece and a philosophical project growing out of Wittgenstein’s philosophy of language. Hardly seems worth it to me, but I’m not a conceptual artist.

Snig

I wonder if McCain could call him up, say “as the guy who, according to you, should be your president since Obama is disqualified, I’d like to tell you to stop being a dick and serve the chain of command like the a respectable soldier.” Or is McCain in on it through his Panamanian birth too?

The Lizardman

Xopher,

I’m not cyberstalking you or anyone else – but you’re really looking to play a victim aren’t you?

What is the chocolates pic btw?

I often take the time to look at the posting history and web pages of people I find myself in discussions with, sorry if googling you is somehow out of bounds – but if you think it is, you should probably reconsider being online.

As for the opinions of ordinary people on my behaviour, if ordinary people even exist I could not care less about their opinions.

Equally ridiculous is, of course, a matter of personal taste as are bizarre, hideous, grotesque, etc. I did not intend you a shudder of horror at the sight of me but I can’t say it bothers me and I suspect you deserved it.

And just so you know, I did find that image via a search for ‘xopher’ that yielded posts by ‘xopher ‘ which I followed to here:

which is where I found the image

AsteriskCGY

More like Cheney.

Takuan

reâ‹…liâ‹…gion
â€‚â€‚/rÉªËˆlÉªdÊ’É™n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
Use religion in a Sentence
â€“noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one’s vow.
â€”Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one’s errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
Origin:
1150â€“1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiÅn- (s. of religiÅ) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(Äre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligÄre to bind, tie; cf. ligament ) + -iÅn- -ion; cf. rely

Related forms:
reâ‹…liâ‹…gionâ‹…less, adjective
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, Â© Random House, Inc. 2009.
Cite This Source
|

reÂ·liÂ·gion (rÄ-lÄj’É™n)
n.

1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

[Middle English religioun, from Old French religion, from Latin religiÅ, religiÅn-, perhaps from religÄre, to tie fast; see rely.]
The American HeritageÂ® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright Â© 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Cite This Source

religion
c.1200, “state of life bound by monastic vows,” also “conduct indicating a belief in a divine power,” from Anglo-Fr. religiun (11c.), from O.Fr. religion “religious community,” from L. religionem (nom. religio) “respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods,” in L.L. “monastic life” (5c.); according to Cicero, derived from relegare “go through again, read again,” from re- “again” + legere “read” (see lecture). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare “to bind fast” (see rely), via notion of “place an obligation on,” or “bond between humans and gods.” Another possible origin is religiens “careful,” opposite of negligens. Meaning “particular system of faith” is recorded from c.1300.

“The equal toleration of all religions … is the same thing as atheism.” [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]

Modern sense of “recognition of, obedience to, and worship of a higher, unseen power” is from 1535. Religious is first recorded c.1225. Transfered sense of “scrupulous, exact” is recorded from 1599.
Online Etymology Dictionary, Â© 2001 Douglas Harper

The Lizardman

” I thought that becoming a major would require a certain amount of competency and clear thinking. I must be naive”

Mny f tht rnk r hghr r dvtly rlgs – tht ‘rnks’ s lss cmptnt nd clr thnkng thn bng brthr MH.

Sometimes otherwise smart people believe dumb things or just get swept away down the rabbit hole.

Robbo

Dude probably thinks Dewey won too. Sheesh!

MrJM

Thespian Veterans Theater Presents…

Gen. Patton: What’s the matter with you?

Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook: Well, I… I guess I… I can’t take Obama anymore.

Patton: What did you say?

Cook: It’s the birth certificate, sir. I… I just can’t prove his citizenship.

Patton: His birth certificate?!? Well, hell, you’re nothing but a God-damned coward.

[Cook starts sniveling]
Patton: Shut up!

[Slaps him, once forehanded, then backhanded on the rebound]
Patton: I’m not going to have a man sitting here crying! In front of these brave men who have been wounded in battle!

[Cook snivels some more, and Patton swings a vicious forehand slap, knocking his helmet away]
Patton: Shut up!

[to the Federal Courts]
Patton: Don’t hear this yellow bastard. There’s nothing wrong with him. I won’t have a man who’s just afraid to fight stinking up this place of honor! You will get him back up to the front.

[to Cook]
Patton: You’re going back to the front, boy. You may get shot, and you may get killed, but you’re going back to the fighting. Either that, or I’ll stand you up before a firing squad. Why, I ought to shoot you right now, you… God-damned bastard! Get him out of here! Take him back to the front! You hear me? You God-damned coward!

[Takes deep breath]
Patton: I won’t have cowards in my army.

Aaaaaaand scene.

Brainspore

Xopher #84:

…I’m not sure the general electorate of the United States is less star-struck and credulous than the electorate of California, so I’m happy to keep the native-born rule for now!

Oh c’mon. Do you really think America is ready to elect a bad actor to the highest office in the nation just because he was governor of California?

Anyway, I’d sooner vote for Arnold than Palin.

Anonymous

Silly Antinous. That’s pronounced (and spelt) AHHHHHHnold.

Xopher

Lizardman, I will not speculate on what you deserve. You probably won’t get it, anyway, since very few people do.

Anonymous

Say, just for argument’s sake, that the tinfoil hat bedwetters are right. His mother is American. Hello, 14th Amendment?

USCIS.gov for more.

Xopher

I meant “…you probably won’t get whatever it is that you deserve, since most people don’t.” Just to be clear. I didn’t notice the ambiguity there until moments after hitting Submit.

Phikus

Knowing for a fact that bush was not elected didn’t stop the last 8 years of bullshit. If he’s angling for a section 8, he just might be doing it right.

vonskippy

Geesh, just wear a dress like the other section 8 wannbes.

Ito Kagehisa

Please continue though because I am laughing and it feels good.

Lizardman for the win!

Takuan

he’s just chasing a book deal and Jerry Springer.

The Lizardman

Do very few get what they deserve or is it more likely that very few people get what you THINK they deserve?

Careful, I’m supposed to be the blind egoist here aren’t I?

aeschenkarnos

Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution contains the clause: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

The Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787.

Accordingly, the last President who was actually eligible to the office, having been at the time of adoption of the Constitution either a natural born citizen or a citizen of the United States, was Zachary Taylor, the 12th. (The 9th and 10th presidents were also ineligible, having been born in 1790 and 1795 respectively.)

There is plenty of precedent for this type of parsing of the statute; it’s exactly what happens with the Second Amendment and the well-regulated militia.

Modusoperandi

Why can’t you two stop fighting long enough to see that you love each other?

Antinous / Moderator

I am declaring a moratorium. Disrupt it and face my displeasure.

Anonymous

Possibly be born again.

The Lizardman

But modusoperandi, it is you that I truly love

Xopher

Ito…I don’t think ‘for the win’ means what you think it means.

Ito Kagehisa

You may be right, Xopher. I am so old, when I was a young man FTW stood for something completely different…

ill lich

It’s not really about the birth certificate or even race, it’s about a Democrat being in the White House. The “birthers” and “tea-baggers” (god I love that phrase) are just another variation on the same people that hounded Bill Clinton for 8 years, and Bill Clinton was actually pretty moderate. So if there wasn’t an opportunity to cast doubt on his birthplace they would have found some other excuse, perhaps that ACORN stole the election, or that he didn’t take the oath of office properly (both of which have already been floated out there). And if it wasn’t Obama but Hillary or Dodd or Richardson, they would have found some other excuse to go after them instead.

I bet there are some of them that called Democrats “sore losers” after Bush v. Gore. They should take a serious look in the mirror.

Tdawwg

Let it swirl, man, let it swirl: the jokes will come.

Totally other point, but did the Recent Comments just get yoinked from the front page? Anybody know?

Xopher

HA! Lizardman FLOUNCES! Watch that door, it swings.

Troof, flounces being what they are, I’m not sure Lizardman is gone for good. Besides, it was ModusOperandi who didn’t want me to reveal the nature of bilabial fricatives.

Aeschenkarnos, you’re just being silly. The first question is “what did the founders intend?” and the second is “how do we apply that to modern conditions?” The founders’ intend in the Article Two Section 1 is clear. Their intent in the Second Amendment is dramatically less clear, and the subject of some debate; myself I think it means people are allowed to bear arms to the extent required in order to have a well-regulated militia (means yes to rifles, no to nuclear weapons, with everything else somewhere in the middle), but other interpretations are possible.

To call these parses the same ‘type’ is to show that you don’t understand the use and meaning of the ablative absolute.

Xopher

Lizardman: Most people get worse than THEY think they deserve, and better than some other people think they deserve. I believe that my friend John does not deserve to be dying of cancer right now, but he is. I believe Dubya deserves to be in a maximum-security prison for the rest of his life, or perhaps just waterboarded every day for 20 years, but neither of those is likely to occur.

I don’t believe that we live in a fair or just world. I believe that given the fact that the world is neither fair nor just, fairness and justice have to be created by human effort if they’re to exist at all. I believe such efforts as are being made in that direction are inadequate and mostly fail, which is a reason for trying harder, but also means that as things stand now most people to whom terrible things happen don’t deserve them, and nor do people to whom wonderful things happen deserve them. When people do get what they deserve, for good or ill, it’s a happy coincidence (or the result of sustained effort by people like Elie Wiesel on the one side, or the MacArthur Foundation on the other).

Also, I believe it’s unhelpful to me to speculate on what other people deserve; with some, like John and Dubya, I just can’t help it, but it’s better not to. It doesn’t make me happy, or do anyone else any good either.

MO: dem’s fightin’ woids.

Xopher

But Ill Lich, they are the PARTY of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is what they’re BUILT on. That and racism. For a good classic GOP winger combination, look at Jeff Sessions, a racist hypocrite.

Xopher

Oops, Antinous, crosspost.

A moratorium on what, exactly?

Antinous / Moderator

A moratorium on what, exactly?

Anything other than the subject of Mark’s post.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

There are now reports that Major Kook has lost his defense-contractor job. Unfortunately, all these reports trace back to Orly Taitz, so heaven knows what actually happened. Only a scattering of newspapers have picked up that story so far. Most are just reporting that Cook won’t have to deploy.

Taitz’s own commentary on the matter is nothing short of demented. This is from her original filing:

Plaintiff seeks to avoid not only court-martial in this country, but also treatment as a war-criminal or terrorist, not eligible even for protection under the Geneva convention, if he were found to be a merely mercenary soldier in a private army of slaves, â€œownedâ€ or controlled by an unconstitutional and therefore illegal commander, if he does not ask the question: â€œis this order legal?â€

Her most recent statements, IMO, actually manage to be crazier than that filing. There are any number of reasons the U.S. military might have chosen to dispense with Major Cook’s services in Afghanistan. We don’t know which one(s) they chose, and neither does Orly Taitz. She is nevertheless declaring victory, on grounds that can’t possibly be valid:

California lawyer Orly Taitz says any service member may now refuse any order by questioning Obama’s legitimacy.

No. What this statement establishes is that Orly Taitz is (1.) a legal ignoramus, and (2.) fundamentally irresponsible.

Taitz is saying that the military’s decision not to put Cook on active duty in Afghanistan, which is all they’ve done so far, establishes the validity of Cook’s claim that President Obama isn’t really president. It doesn’t. In fact, they couldn’t do that even if they wanted to. To make a screamingly obvious point, the U.S. military doesn’t have the authority to invalidate the results of the Electoral College.

Orly Taitz is a dentist. She happens to have a law degree on the side, but all that does is let her practice law. It doesn’t make her any kind of an expert. Here’s the rest of her statement, which is every bit as ignorant as the earlier bits:

“Do you know what this means?” Taitz asked in a telephone interview with Military.com Tuesday, about an hour after hearing from Maj. Stefan Cook, the officer fighting his deployment to Afghanistan. “It means the Obama administration has blinked. They have no cards to play with. The moment I filed a lawsuit, they didn’t even fight!”

The Obama administration doesn’t need to fight her, or even engage with her. Orly Taitz is a pismire, and Cook doesn’t have a case. For all we know, the official reason Cook won’t be going to Afghanistan is that traditional catch-all, “for the good of the service.”

More of Taitz’s raving:

“Can you imagine what are the consequences? This is disastrous” for the administration, she said. “We’ll have no military. Because anytime any Soldier, any Sailor, any Airman does not want to follow any orders, all he has to do is call an attorney and say ‘I don’t want to follow this order because I question the legitimacy of the commander in chief.’”

We already knew this woman isn’t operating in the real world. But if she imagines the military would hand down a decision which establishes as a principle that any member of the serving military can at any time refuse to obey any order, she’s not just deluded; she’s a raving loony.

Newspaper columnist and veteran Naval officer Greg Skilling has written a strikingly knowledgeable and emphatic takedown of Major Cook and his case: Major Stefan Frederick Cook, USAR – conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. Here’s a telling quote from it:

Maj. Cook, a reservist, volunteered to go to on active duty and serve in Afghanistan on May 8, 2009, according to Lt. Col. Maria Quon, an Army Public Affairs Officer at the Armyâ€™s Human Resource Command in St. Louis.
Maj. Cookâ€™s orders were published on June 9, 2009 and according to Lt. Col Quon. Cook himself could have requested that his orders be cancelled at any time prior to entering active duty. Lt. Col. Quon stressed that Maj. Cook did not need to seek a court order to avoid going on active duty or serving in Afghanistan since he had requested to serve voluntarily and was not being forced to deploy. According to Lt. Col. Quon, Maj. Cook did not follow the normal protocol to rescind his request for active duty and pointed out that Maj. Cook volunteered for duty well after President Obama took the oath of office and became commander-in-chief.

There was absolutely no requirement for Maj. Cook to go on active duty or serve in Afghanistan. It was completely unnecessary for Maj. Cook to go to a federal district court seeking relief from a situation which he himself created. It seems blatantly obvious that Maj. Cook never intended to execute the orders that he requested, and was in fact seeking to advance a civilian political agenda at the expense of the good order and discipline of the Armed Forces of the United States.

Emphasis mine.

If you want to read more about Orly Taitz, the best piece I’ve seen was published by Taitz’s own local paper, the Orange County Weekly: Meet Orly Taitz, Queen Bee of People Obsessed With Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate. It’s thorough.

LogopolisMike

Going crazy is the new going to Canada.

mdh

What’s wrong with saying that there is a great similarity between religious people and conspiracy theorists?

It offends conspiracy theorists? Just a guess.

HeruRaHa

Everyone knows about the pinko time machine. FDR used it to start the Depression in 1929, and of course Barack Obama used it to start this current recession back in late 2007.

Xopher

Kooky Cook isn’t going to have to go to Afghanistan. This is probably good for the Afghans, for the war effort there, and for any soldiers who would have been under his command. It’s not what he deserves, perhaps, but it’s the instrument by which others are protected.

I do hope they find an appropriate assignment for him, though. Cleaning toilets with a toothbrush would get my vote.

aeschenkarnos

I’m fully aware that it’s a silly argument, Xopher. That’s the whole point.

Takuan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathaniel-frank/can-white-men-shed-their_b_232201.html

The Lizardman

Nobody deserves anything but it would not be a bad thing for this guy to get an assignment like you described xopher – cleaning toilets with a toothbrush (preferably his own) – in Iraq.

Takuan

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/72048.html

Xopher

Ito, when I was a young man, FTW was a box in the middle of the road, we had to walk uphill through the snow both ways, even in July, and our dads killed us every day when they got home.

TDawwg, thought it was my browser. I think it’s probably a server glitch. Myself I plan to stand by.

Xopher

Unless he really is Section 8 material. In that case he should be treated with all compassion and respect. But the fact that he volunteered and then sued not to go sounds more like political grandstanding than actual soft-room disease.

Xopher

I know that’s YOUR point Aeschenkarnos. You missed mine, which is that your comparison of the two arguments is silly.

Xopher

I like the description of him as a “double-reverse triple-axle moonbat.”

failix

What’s wrong with saying that there is a great similarity between religious people and conspiracy theorists? Both groups couldn’t care less about facts.

Xopher

Annnnd it’s back.

demidan

Maybe if the “warped” back to 1961 to observe the birth he would believe.

Xopher

Oh wait, not on the front page. Gargh.

demidan

I have a question, is Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook from Texas? That could explain away a lot of this, Texas seems to be living under a Giant Power Line these days.

Anonymous

Good news! The Clinically Paranoid are unfit for military service, in the first place…your Section Eight discharge awaits…

Tdawwg

I read that shit like wealthy folks read the NASDAQ ticker! I’m beginning to suffer withdrawal. How will I know when my mots justes have been published? How to gauge my interlocutors’ response? Where will I have news of Xopher’s latest witticism, Antinous’ latest adjudication, Takuan’s latest Takuanament? Haaalp!

Anonymous

It’s not really about the birth certificate or even race, it’s about a Democrat being in the White House.

True… the Obama “Birthers” obviously don’t like Obama and the Democrats for other reasons, and are looking for any excuse to make him “illegitimate”… Much in the same way people who hated Bush looked for any excuse to say “he stole the election” to make him illegitimate.

It is socially unacceptable to say that you don’t believe in democracy… so when the guy you really really hate gets elected, people can either admit to themselves “yeah, I don’t really believe in democracy” (highly unlikely), or they can concoct some crackpot theory on why the elected leader really isn’t the elected leader. It is a psychological coping mechanism, and it is becoming more common now that liberalism is dead and civil political discourse is a thing of the past.

Soldier won't go to Afghanistan because he doesn't believe Obama is the president of the United States

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