Comments on: UK: Treatment of (gay) genius mathematician Alan Turing "appalling" http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Fri, 24 May 2013 07:59:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: sworm http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585216 sworm Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585216 About time. Maybe I'm naive, but this didn't read like an entirely empty apology. About time.

Maybe I’m naive, but this didn’t read like an entirely empty apology.

]]> By: Ahoj http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585474 Ahoj Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585474 Forgive the crassness but F***ing finally. and I think in the end Turings would have had the last laugh. Nothing of the modern age increases sexual freedom more than the internet, the connections of computers that without him would not be possible. Now if you excuse me I think I'm going to use the tubes to do just that. Forgive the crassness but F***ing finally.

and I think in the end Turings would have had the last laugh. Nothing of the modern age increases sexual freedom more than the internet, the connections of computers that without him would not be possible.

Now if you excuse me I think I’m going to use the tubes to do just that.

]]> By: JoshuaZ http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585223 JoshuaZ Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585223 Takuan, you mean how he was killed by the British government to cover what the fact that he had discovered a proof that P=NP which could also be used to summon Cthulhu? In case anyone is wondering, that's the central premise of "The Atrocity Archives" which is an amazing, insane book by Charles Stross. Takuan, you mean how he was killed by the British government to cover what the fact that he had discovered a proof that P=NP which could also be used to summon Cthulhu?

In case anyone is wondering, that’s the central premise of “The Atrocity Archives” which is an amazing, insane book by Charles Stross.

]]> By: jamesneysmith http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585737 jamesneysmith Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585737 No, I am pretty sure the intention of the post was that we shouldn't have to wait until 50 years after the death of someone who was unjustly persecuted under bigoted laws for some form of justice to take place. The terrible irony is that we are so often apologizing for the ills of previous people in our nation's governments while not realizing that the same will probably be done as per our own bigotries 50 years down the road. We need to make that connection and fight for justice NOW instead of relying upon the fact that our candle will soon too burn out without us having to repent for our sins because a half-hearted apology will be given by our ancestors in a few decades so all is well. No, I am pretty sure the intention of the post was that we shouldn’t have to wait until 50 years after the death of someone who was unjustly persecuted under bigoted laws for some form of justice to take place. The terrible irony is that we are so often apologizing for the ills of previous people in our nation’s governments while not realizing that the same will probably be done as per our own bigotries 50 years down the road. We need to make that connection and fight for justice NOW instead of relying upon the fact that our candle will soon too burn out without us having to repent for our sins because a half-hearted apology will be given by our ancestors in a few decades so all is well.

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585237 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585237 and now we have to kill you. and now we have to kill you.

]]> By: Piers W http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585240 Piers W Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585240 #9 Anonymous Took me a while to realise what you were on about there. #9 Anonymous

Took me a while to realise what you were on about there.

]]> By: J France http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585496 J France Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585496 I'm still hearing a (small?) chorus of voices - mostly black, all christian - saying gay rights aren't civil rights. This sort of public apology is important on heaps of levels, just one of which is restoring the dignity of the awesome man, however late it may be. I’m still hearing a (small?) chorus of voices – mostly black, all christian – saying gay rights aren’t civil rights.

This sort of public apology is important on heaps of levels, just one of which is restoring the dignity of the awesome man, however late it may be.

]]> By: J France http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585502 J France Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585502 For a second a thought that women was protesting teh evil gayz, and it was immensely funnyscaryfunny. Still funny, and thank christ it's pro not anti. Great sign. For a second a thought that women was protesting teh evil gayz, and it was immensely funnyscaryfunny.

Still funny, and thank christ it’s pro not anti. Great sign.

]]> By: jphilby http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585250 jphilby Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585250 And while we're at it, a hearty BRAVO to all the hearty (and hot) britfags who've contributed so much to the cultural and intellectual life of the Western hemisphere! Toodley-pips! And while we’re at it, a hearty BRAVO to all the hearty (and hot) britfags who’ve contributed so much to the cultural and intellectual life of the Western hemisphere! Toodley-pips!

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585252 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585252 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_%28weapons_expert%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_%28weapons_expert%29

]]> By: adamta http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585256 adamta Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585256 I find it disappointing. They should have apologized to <em>everybody</em> who was persecuted under these laws, or not at all. Apologizing to just one person -- as I've said before -- sounds like they're saying "Hey, he was a pretty good guy, <em>even though</em> he was gay." Or, "Yes, he was gay, but he helped us win a war, so that makes up for it." What it <em>doesn't</em> sound like is that they're serious about equality and atoning for past oppression. I find it disappointing. They should have apologized to everybody who was persecuted under these laws, or not at all. Apologizing to just one person — as I’ve said before — sounds like they’re saying “Hey, he was a pretty good guy, even though he was gay.” Or, “Yes, he was gay, but he helped us win a war, so that makes up for it.” What it doesn’t sound like is that they’re serious about equality and atoning for past oppression.

]]> By: Mabeuf http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585257 Mabeuf Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585257 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5122859998068380459# Turing's bit is at 68:40 A well deserved apology. Sad that it ever had to happen in the first place. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5122859998068380459#

Turing’s bit is at 68:40

A well deserved apology. Sad that it ever had to happen in the first place.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585259 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585259 Depressing to think that something like this took place so recently. Bet even today obama couldn't get away with a statement so un-condemning of the gays without backlash. Depressing to think that something like this took place so recently. Bet even today obama couldn’t get away with a statement so un-condemning of the gays without backlash.

]]> By: Kieran O'Neill http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585521 Kieran O'Neill Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585521 It does seem sincere. I'm very glad I signed that petition. He may be dead, but it still matters. It does seem sincere. I’m very glad I signed that petition. He may be dead, but it still matters.

]]> By: mdh http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585526 mdh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585526 Turing will be remembered long after even Churchill. Turing will be remembered long after even Churchill.

]]> By: benher http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585301 benher Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585301 Nothing could be more appalling than how obscenely long it takes to get justice for those like Turing... if you can call a too-little-too-late apology 'justice' that is. Nothing could be more appalling than how obscenely long it takes to get justice for those like Turing… if you can call a too-little-too-late apology ‘justice’ that is.

]]> By: siliconsunset http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585815 siliconsunset Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585815 FINALLY. To the people who are downing this, get over it. Without Turing and his efforts we'd all be speaking German, and certainly not having this discussion or looking at this site. I really hope now that they've addressed this issue they can finally give Bletchley Park the attention it deserves, since they don't have to worry about drawing attention to this huge mistake any longer. Sure the appology doesn't fix it, or change anything, or help to starving or poor or whatever... but it's the least they can do for someone who did so much for so many and was treated so poorly. Long time coming. Sleep well, Mr Turing. FINALLY.

To the people who are downing this, get over it.

Without Turing and his efforts we’d all be speaking German, and certainly not having this discussion or looking at this site. I really hope now that they’ve addressed this issue they can finally give Bletchley Park the attention it deserves, since they don’t have to worry about drawing attention to this huge mistake any longer. Sure the appology doesn’t fix it, or change anything, or help to starving or poor or whatever… but it’s the least they can do for someone who did so much for so many and was treated so poorly. Long time coming. Sleep well, Mr Turing.

]]> By: RikF http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-586331 RikF Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-586331 "Homo Devil Machine" Well, I certainly know what my next case-mod is going to be :) I wonder how long I could get away with that on the back of my laptop before I got lynched... “Homo Devil Machine”

Well, I certainly know what my next case-mod is going to be :)

I wonder how long I could get away with that on the back of my laptop before I got lynched…

]]> By: Takuan http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585821 Takuan Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585821 the most amazing thing; today, when I arose, the sun caught a single bead on the continuous curtain, as seen through a crack in the blinds. the most amazing thing; today, when I arose, the sun caught a single bead on the continuous curtain, as seen through a crack in the blinds.

]]> By: Feathers http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585338 Feathers Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585338 #18 Adamta: The apology was not-so-implicitly extended to all gays persecuted under the law: <em>"Alan <b>and the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more lived in fear of conviction.</b>"</em> #18 Adamta: The apology was not-so-implicitly extended to all gays persecuted under the law:

“Alan and the many thousands of other gay men who were convicted as he was convicted under homophobic laws were treated terribly. Over the years millions more lived in fear of conviction.“

]]> By: Cicada http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585599 Cicada Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585599 @27- And if you don't apply sovereign immunity, no member of government will do anything for fear that a later change in social conditions will make him subject to arrest, etc. <p>"Thank goodness that in 2050 we're finally able to bring to justice those who unjustly punished those who castrated Turing..." @27- And if you don’t apply sovereign immunity, no member of government will do anything for fear that a later change in social conditions will make him subject to arrest, etc.

“Thank goodness that in 2050 we’re finally able to bring to justice those who unjustly punished those who castrated Turing…”

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-586368 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-586368 I can barely imagine what must have been going through Turning's head as the Judge passed his sentence and the government kicked fire him from GCHQ. This was precisley the kind of oppressive nonsense that the war was supposed to end, that he gave his talent to. The phrase 'sick irony' does not even begin to describe this, but it will have to do. I can barely imagine what must have been going through Turning’s head as the Judge passed his sentence and the government kicked fire him from GCHQ. This was precisley the kind of oppressive nonsense that the war was supposed to end, that he gave his talent to. The phrase ‘sick irony’ does not even begin to describe this, but it will have to do.

]]> By: semiotix http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585861 semiotix Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585861 This is remarkable, given how the early negotiations with the PM's office (conducted entirely via IM) went: TuringFans: We'd like you to issue an apology to Alan Turing. UKPM1: WHY DO YOU LIKE ME TO ISSUE AN APOLOGY TO ALAN TURING? TuringFans: Well, he was treated rather shabbily by the British government. UKPM1: TELL ME MORE ABOUT TREATED RATHER SHABBILY. TuringFans: He was harassed, verbally abused, sacked, and denied credit for his work, even though it was crucial to winning the war. UKPM1: PERHAPS YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT A PROBLEM? TuringFans: That's what we're trying to do! UKPM1: HOW LONG ARE YOU TRYING TO DO? This is remarkable, given how the early negotiations with the PM’s office (conducted entirely via IM) went:

TuringFans: We’d like you to issue an apology to Alan Turing.

UKPM1: WHY DO YOU LIKE ME TO ISSUE AN APOLOGY TO ALAN TURING?

TuringFans: Well, he was treated rather shabbily by the British government.

UKPM1: TELL ME MORE ABOUT TREATED RATHER SHABBILY.

TuringFans: He was harassed, verbally abused, sacked, and denied credit for his work, even though it was crucial to winning the war.

UKPM1: PERHAPS YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT A PROBLEM?

TuringFans: That’s what we’re trying to do!

UKPM1: HOW LONG ARE YOU TRYING TO DO?

]]> By: octopod http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585358 octopod Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585358 @21 I'm sorry, I don't follow you. would you rather there was never any official acknowledgement of just how plain wrong this whole sad chapter of british history was? @21

I’m sorry, I don’t follow you. would you rather there was never any official acknowledgement of just how plain wrong this whole sad chapter of british history was?

]]> By: sopekmir http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585375 sopekmir Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585375 Its good to see, after so many years, the apology from British Government for Turing. However, I do not see as moraly sufficient. First, the importance of Turing is far more reaching than breaking the Enigma. His concept of universal computer, later called "Turing machine" is the foundation for all computers we have and for all we can imagine. No one invented anything in computer science that could transcend "Turing machine". It is strange that this aspect of Turing's achievements is not stressed. While his <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma">solution of Enigma</a> was universal and much better than previous attempts, and very important for the history of WWII - I think his fundamental work and most important legacy is "Turing Machine". If he lived longer, he would probably work longer on this fundamental concept, and we would have much better computers, we would understand better what is beyond "Turing Machine". The act of chemical castration performed on him, which caused his suicide is a crime that should be punished. While I'm happy to read British Government statemant, I expect and investigation to open. People who commited the crime should be brought to justice ... Its good to see, after so many years, the apology from British Government for Turing.

However, I do not see as moraly sufficient.
First, the importance of Turing is far more reaching than breaking the Enigma. His concept of universal computer, later called “Turing machine” is the foundation for all computers we have and for all we can imagine.

No one invented anything in computer science that could transcend “Turing machine”.
It is strange that this aspect of Turing’s achievements is not stressed.

While his solution of Enigma was universal and much better than previous attempts, and very important for the history of WWII – I think his fundamental work and most important legacy is “Turing Machine”.

If he lived longer, he would probably work longer on this fundamental concept, and we would have much better computers, we would understand better what is beyond “Turing Machine”.

The act of chemical castration performed on him, which caused his suicide is a crime that should be punished.

While I’m happy to read British Government statemant, I expect and investigation to open.
People who commited the crime should be brought to justice …

]]> By: Chris Spurgeon http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585898 Chris Spurgeon Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585898 re @39 semiotix, you totally win! Brilliant! re @39

semiotix, you totally win! Brilliant!

]]> By: pupdog http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585648 pupdog Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585648 I stayed up past my bedtime to read the statement when released, after getting hints that something was coming. It's far too long coming. Maybe I'm just a silly optimist, but this seems like a first step toward a larger acknowledgment of the wrongs against so many. I agree that Turing was much more than 'just' the man who broke Enigma, but that's a giant moment in history that one can point to and say 'This is where it all started'. Turing was already well into the work that lead to his 'father of modern computing' status, but the work done during the war had a great impact on that. Now if only we could see Bletchley Park given the support and protection it needs. What a fantastic place for a memorial to the war effort, to Turing and his work, the dawn of modern technology, and the idea that minds and creativity can overcome war and evil, not just bombs and guns. I stayed up past my bedtime to read the statement when released, after getting hints that something was coming. It’s far too long coming. Maybe I’m just a silly optimist, but this seems like a first step toward a larger acknowledgment of the wrongs against so many.

I agree that Turing was much more than ‘just’ the man who broke Enigma, but that’s a giant moment in history that one can point to and say ‘This is where it all started’. Turing was already well into the work that lead to his ‘father of modern computing’ status, but the work done during the war had a great impact on that.

Now if only we could see Bletchley Park given the support and protection it needs. What a fantastic place for a memorial to the war effort, to Turing and his work, the dawn of modern technology, and the idea that minds and creativity can overcome war and evil, not just bombs and guns.

]]> By: juepucta http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585655 juepucta Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585655 Maybe, back in '83, the PC Jr would've succeeded under the name Homo Devil Machine 2000. -G. Maybe, back in ’83, the PC Jr would’ve succeeded under the name Homo Devil Machine 2000.

-G.

]]> By: thequickbrownfox http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585149 thequickbrownfox Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585149 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/wolfbrigade/gaycomputer.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/wolfbrigade/gaycomputer.jpg

]]> By: alicebt http://boingboing.net/2009/09/10/uk-treatment-of-geni.html#comment-585151 alicebt Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-585151 I am glad to know that this statement was made. It is important even so many years after the fact to have an official statement. Let his humiliation be a reminder to the insanity that unexamined prejudices can lead to. I am glad to know that this statement was made. It is important even so many years after the fact to have an official statement. Let his humiliation be a reminder to the insanity that unexamined prejudices can lead to.

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