San Francisco police officer arresting skateboarder: "I'll break your arm like a fckng twig."

Ratbus

The real question I have is why in hell did they stay around to get arrested? Back when I was skating you never stopped for a cop. There is no way that one cop can catch you if everyone splits up. That was half the fun of skating.

Besides, if you got caught you might get to join the force and work along side that guy who can make all the cool noises with his mouth.

bwcbwc

Proving once again that stupidity is the only crime. If you’re smart, you either don’t do the crime (or provoke an officer unnecessarily) or you don’t get caught.

Beelzebuddy

#111 I am arguing for saying “yes sir”. Where has civility gone?

Awfully one-sided view of “civility” you got there. We don’t see the beginning of the conversation, but I’ll wager the cop never said so much as “please.” Seems to me to civil thing for someone in a position of authority to do would be not to get riled up from some punk kid calling them a dick. As it is, despite your apologetics we’re left with one more demonstration that cops routinely abuse their authority, a few more people with firsthand evidence that cops deserve nothing but hate and mistrust, and one fucking dick who’ll sleep easy tonight knowing that his authoritah was respected.

Maybe that’s good enough for you. I’m convinced it could have been handled much better. Start by hiring people who don’t have something to prove.

daneyul

Please–shut up already with the “call a cop a name, go to jail” shit. That wasn’t the charge at all. The kid was arrested for skating where it’s not allowed. Regardless of how stupid that law is, the cop could have taken any of those kids in for doing just that if they didn’t have an ID (and therefore were not “cite-able”.

Yes, when the kid mouthed off, the cop then decided, on his own discretion, to go by the letter of the law. Before that, it seemed pretty clear he was just going to warn them and let them go.

This isn’t a case of being arrested for calling a cop a name–it was a case of a stupid kid’s behavior causing a cop to no longer have any interest in letting him off for the actual infraction committed.

mindindustry

2 dicks of varying degrees and 2 heroes

Bravo to the clever and courageous citizen journalist and the engaged, speak-truth-to-power citizen.

IronEdithKidd

Antinous – you’re normally much quicker to muzzle first-day trolls than you are today. Why so leinient?

mightymouse1584

what a fcking dck

pickleops

Stop wasting your indignation with a cop yelling “I’ll snap your arms off like twigs.” Police brutality exists and this is not it. Unleash your rage when cops manufacture evidence and lie under oath. Abuse of the public trust is a far cry from cursing out a punk kid.

Anonymous

#20 “Sure, the cop maybe overreacted a bit, but did nothing wrong.”

Please bother to read before commenting.

Over at metblogs SF, Richard Ault says the officer’s understanding of SF skateboarding codes is wrong.

“taunting a police officer by calling him a “fckng dck” is about as dumb as it gets, but that does not give the officer the right to threaten to break the guy’s arms, or arrest him for — what was it, in the end, failing to carry identification?”

mistersquid

@38 who asked

it’s not illegal to be rude/disrespectful to a public serviceman, is it?

I was going to correct you, but a quick search reveals that in 2001 a federal appeals court ruled that swearing at an officer of the law is not a crime.

This makes me indescribably happy.

SocalMike

Sure the kid was extremely stupid for a calling him a dick. But, the Police Officer is a professional representing the government and should conduct himself in a professional manner no matter what kind of stupid behavior occurs.

You are a police officer. You are going to come across disrespectful people. So arrest him and be done with it. He deserves to be taught a lesson. But instead, the cop has to drop down to street mentality.

I, for one, am glad to see the other citizen calling him on his behavior and I hope he gets reprimanded for his actions. All too often the police think they are above the law.

bartgold

It’s hard to fully judge this incident without the context… don’t know what exactly is meant by ‘pulling up grates’ Does that imply that these clowns may have been making makeshift ramps out of something or otherwise screwing with sewer covers or metal planks? That sounds like a legit complaint for the neighbors to make, above and beyond any complaint about the skateboarding.

Frankly, the kid deserved a smack in the face. An officer should know better than to threaten to break his arm,- but the kid deserved to be humbled.

I skated a little as a kid, hung out with a backtalking wise-ass or two… but this kid was way out of line. If he’ll talk back to a police officer I’d hate to see what happens to the 60 year old lady who comes out to ask them to stop trashing her flower bed.

Powell

#28 “..the kid deserved a smack in the face..”
That is insane. Nowhere in this cops job description is there any mention of deciding who should be smacked (and or arms broken). Just one more in a growing list of examples of how our society has given too much power to those without the facility to wield it with any sense. Cop jobs attract bullies, that is abundantly clear.
It is not illegal to tell a cop he is a fucking dick. It just isnt. In this case, and 99% of all cases telling a cop that he is a “fucking dick” would be nothing more than a statement of truth.

@ADAVIES “If someone mouths off at me on the street, am I within my legal rights to respond with violence? No.”
Absolutely right on.

“First they came for the skaters…”

eustace

I’ve never thought of humbling people as being part of a cop’s portfolio.

tomboing

The cop arrested the kid for calling him a name. A person that thin-skinned shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun or wield police authority. To the cop’s credit, he answered questions about his choices — engaged in a dialogue, of sorts. I can see he’s frustrated by the situation and the all the complications he expects to come from all this. But it doesn’t change the fact that he lost his temper and arrested someone over a kid calling him a name.

And saying he’s going to escalate the charges “because you wanted to get involved” reflects a really bad attitude for a cop to have. Mocking a citizen for caring about injustice? Punishing someone for someone else’s behavior?

Cop, you lost your cool and did some damage, plain and simple. As serious (or more so) in its way than skateboarding and, what, messing with some manhole covers?

Saskplanner

Kid wasn’t smacked enough growing up and certainly needs a smack on the side of the head now. I’m offering.

grimc

Is there really a difference between “Brooklyn” and “bklyn”, Chris?

MDH, FTW.

IronEdithKidd

“Learn the rules, play nice, and you too can succeed. Ignore the rules, cheat the other players, and you get tossed from the game.” said what’s-his-butt at 108

That’s not how it works in the United States. Please carefully review the last 30 years. These rules you speak of seem to exist to keep the unwashed masses in their place. These rules are not to be followed by the REAL players. As long as the scale is grand enough, those who cheat and steal get all the bailouts.

fool

Cop did his job just fine… and that kid had it coming to him. You call someone a dickhead you should expect retaliation, especially if your target is bigger than you or armed. Quite frankly he’s lucky things didn’t go worse.

I’m not a cop, but if some little punk spoke to me like that I’d knock his teeth in. I wouldn’t tolerate blatant disrespect, and neither should that cop, and neither should any other adult.

Antinous / Moderator

if some little punk spoke to me like that I’d knock his teeth in. I wouldn’t tolerate blatant disrespect

You know, when you threaten violence against someone on the pretext of being dissed, you sound less like an upstanding citizen and more like a sociopath with poor self esteem. The kid in the video has abysmal social skills and no comprehension of cause and effect, but you manage to sound worse than him.

fellbackalone

The officer explained quite coherantly that the presence of a camera required him to follow the letter of the law. The camera person, by becoming actively involved in the event, escalated the situation from warning to arrest.

The officer warned the kid not to struggle by telling him that he could “break his arm like a twig.” There was no mention of “fucking twig.”

Prying up manhole covers is a safety issue. Officer doing his job.

Callers worried about vandalism and it being investigated by the police. Officer doing his job.

Kid provoking the police and being arrested for doing so. Officer doing his job.

I believe in the power of cameras to show and hopefully prevent overstepping of authority, but this is a case of the camera making a non-event into an overblown event.

My point being, stay away from what you perceive as a problem. Record, but do not become involved.

Anonymous

“the kid was totally right to call out the cop”

And the cop was totally right to cuff him and stuff him.

TEKNA2007

“the kid deserved a smack in the face”

Let’s just let that get some air for a bit.

Why do I hear an echo of your grandmother in your words?

grimc

@antinous

Yes, even the time that I tried to beat Nancy Reagan with a megaphone.

“Tried”? What, you missed? Sure, she’s really skinny but she doesn’t look that elusive.

Antinous / Moderator

“Tried”? What, you missed?

I doubt that she had the same hearing ever again in her left ear, but then neither do I. I didn’t get arrested, although eight of my comrades did. They were treated to the SFPD Drive-around (not to be confused with the elusive SFPD Reach-around). They loaded them into the paddy wagon, drove them around the corner and then let them go. We always called them the First Lady Eight.

Thac0

Bottom line is that its not the cop anyone should be mad at its the douchebag citizenry of SF that made laws against skating that people should be mad at. Cops only enforce the asinine laws we as communities decide to inflict upon each other.

Anonymous

Why is it ok to skate 30 minutes after sunset and ending 30 minutes before sunrise and not at the other times?
Do people with baby prams/strollers have to abide by this law?
If they hurt people or damage property arrest them not questions asked.
Is having fun illegal in San Francisco?
As for ID what does he need it for?

Anonymous

I thought the police were for the protection and servitude of the people. I cannot see or hear what he is protecting or what citizenry he is serving. Our society is way too controlling over the personal liberties and freedoms.

Tangent…

1. Skateboarding is the urban/pavement equivalent to snowboarding. Which is in the Olympics. They are athletes (as a whole, at the least athletic)and not criminals.

2. I’m going skateboarding! and being in my mid 30′s I’m sure no cop will accost me. They just want to control the suspicious youth.

Blah, blah, blah. Just be polite and always, ALWAYS ask questions of our public servants! Question authority in a polite and respectful (as much respect as you are given) manner I’ve beat many arrests this way, and even had the arrests annulled! Good luck…

benher

I’m more concerned about the rules themselves than the cursing cop. Skateboards are a mode of transportation and like bikes, are subject to all sorts of senseless bureaucracy/hostility by cities with an ax to grind. Like the concept of traveling more than 100 meters without burning a few barrels of oil is foreign to them or something.

Anonymous

I just really want to know where to get one of those belt-buckle fisheye cameras.

Seriously. I need to watch the Watchers.

fool

@#34 – I guarantee you that after he spits his teeth out his “comprehension of cause and effect” would increase tenfold. American kids talk like this because for the most part their parents don’t discipline them. By going easy on them, they are in actuality doing them a disservice. Because there are plenty of people out there like me who don’t take guff from punks – and if they mouth off to the wrong person, it could be a much more painful lesson than if Mom or Dad would have nipped that bad behavior in the bud to begin with.

You seem ill-suited to the task of moderation.. That you can diagnose me as a “sociopath with poor self esteem” because you don’t agree with my viewpoint speaks poorly on you, not me. I’ve also noticed your quick to insult, disemvowel, patronize and chastise anyone that doesn’t share your opinion. There are many, many instances, but look no farther than your comment on #27 for a quick example.

Antinous / Moderator

Would you prefer “red-faced little man impotently shaking his fist at a universe full of imagined insults”?

Anonymous

Who says that police men/women merit greater respect simply because of their line of work? This cop seemed to be a fucking dick from the beginning, and although it’s obvious to ME no to be rude to a cop, form y own good-it’s not illegal to be rude/disrespectful to a public serviceman, is it? The kid was not threatening the cop’s safety or anything. ANd then he gets rough with he stupid kid, and threatens him?? Cops like the one in this situation are what make me not respect any of them. He was a fucking dick. I don’t understand why so many people/cops have a problem with skaters, either. I haven’t seen any of them damaging property, and I used to hang out with them back in the day. Hope the cop gets in trouble for being a dick.

Anonymous

I grew up in the inner city and seen police brutality and intimidation many times. This is not rise to that level.
As far as I’m concerned, the situation could have been avoided but for the arrogance for the young skater. Yes, other, more serious crimes were prob being committed in SF that day. The kid was wasting everybody’s time by being a jackass to the police officer. Nuff said.

SeattlePete

@saskplanner – Dad? Is that you?

Anonymous

For some reason we expect police to follow the letter of the law only when it is to our benefit, though to be quite honest if you expect them to follow the letter of the law they should always follow it.

Jaywalking
Loitering
Trepassing
Disorderly Conduct
Speed Limits
Traffic lines
Vehicle Codes
Turn Signals
Public Drunkeness
Weapons Laws
Alcohol Consumption as a Minor
Illegal Drugs
Drug Paraphanalia
Smoking to close to buildings
Cell phones in cars

I however will not be expecting them to follow the letter of the law, well because there are alotta laws out there and i don’t think i’d be that big of a fan of prison/fines.

fool

I’d prefer that you’d be show less obvious annoyance with viewpoints that are dissimilar to your own.

I’m not either of the insults you’ve called me, but that’s neither here nor there. There’s a big difference in being an internet tough guy like you and being a little punk calling an adult a dickhead to his face. There’s virtually no penalty for doing the former (and maybe that’s half the reason kids today show such ill-advised bravado) and for the latter you never know what could happen.

Not long ago near my home a 30 year old man was knifed and killed over a casual insult. It’s a tragedy to be sure, but it’s also a lesson: Don’t mouth off to someone you don’t know, unless you’re prepared to face the consequences.

Maybe you should take the night off though.. you seem more in a mood to pick fights and throw fuel onto fires than anything resembling “moderation”. The Boingers gave you the title because they felt you could do the job, so do it.. when you act like a bully and insult people with differing perspectives you’re no better than this cop you find so repugnant.

fellbackalone

@83…good point

Anonymous

One more reason not to live in SF. Cop was wrong to use the language he did, and he was wrong about the skateboarding, but he was right about the grate. Removing a grate (city property) and endangering pedestrians (who will sue the city for falling into a missing grate, thus putting up taxes for everybody). Where was the concerned citizen yelling at the cop when the guys were pulling up the grates in the street? Everybody is so down on cops. Here’s an idea. Since everyone seems to be legal experts, go join the Police. Change the organization from the inside. Do something and stop whining.

mgfarrelly

Whenever I read one of these posts I’m always saddened by the quickness with which people fall to the extremes. Either “all cops are evil” or blaming the citizen.

Cops are people. Good, bad and indifferent. I’m in Chicago, a town where the cops have a reputation, and I’ve seen cops risk their lives to protect patrons at my library. I’ve also had cops get in my face and growl threats at me during an anti-war rally back in2003.

The reason these instances are so noteworthty, so unsettling, is becuase of the power a police officer wields. Not just the power to detain and arrest, but also to use physical force, even lethal force. It’s a power that should not be given lightly and monitored closesly for signs of abuse.

The good cops I’ve known, friends and family members and just random officers, take their repsonsibilities seriously.

A cop like the one in this video isn’t in control of the situation, or his emotions. He put those kids at risk, he was making up law on the fly and letting his ego run the show. That’s not someone taking the job seriously, and not someone who should, as the person on the tape points out, be carrying a gun.

Not all cops are jerks, but the ones who are should alarm us all.

Felix Mitchell

@ #82

Kid provoking the police and being arrested for doing so. Officer doing his job.

Nope. As said above it’s not illegal to swear at a cop, or ‘provoke’ him.

An officer should respond to a situation as warranted by public safety, not the provocations of neighbourhood kids.

mdh

Fool, it’s not that your viewpoint is different, it’s that it’s barbaric.

Anonymous

I had no idea i was illegal to skate in SF. That sucks. As for the kid who got arrested, well probably should not have used any language towards the officer. I am sure if he was compliant, then he would not be in jail. We really don;t have the whole story though. What were they doing there? the video stated there was tampering of city property. If that’s the case, these kids are dumb. I can see how they would think it’s the cops fault because they got caught doing something they knew was wrong.

Let’s face it, 10, 15,20 years ago kids were different. School was different, the world was different. I don’t think it’s for the better and the future has yet to prove that.

fellbackalone

@85…The officer was surrounded by potential energy in the form of ramped up teenagers. He was alone. A provocation such as calling him “a fucking dick” could easily have escalated to somthing much worse than a twisted arm and bumped leg.

The situation warranted the officer putting an end to the situation as soon as possible. If one of the kids had to be “made an example of”, which I believe was required, then so be it.

It may not be illegal to swear at a cop, but it is well within the letter of the law to prevent events from escalating. Or would it have been better if someone had been seriously hurt?

Anonymous

If you struggle they *can* break your arm like a twig, without much exertion *or* intent to do so. It is a nature of restraint training.
I’ve been cuffed and restrained and damn nearly tore my shoulder out *without* the cop even touching me.
Punk kids are fucking dicks– I was one of those too.

As someone commented above, this kid would have got a lot worse from many other cops. this one’s a saint.

And no, they don’t have to miranda you (at all anymore I think?) if you are just being detained. Go figure.

fellbackalone

@129…

“But I refer you to the Milgram experiment and the Stanford Prison experiment and the near certainty that I’m not the first to tell you that you owe your position of smug condescension not to any special personal attributes you can take credit for but primarily the circumstances surrounding your existence, doled out by chance.”

My supposed “smug condescension” may come from chance, but it is chance directed by my ability to follow the Social Contract. I have had a police officer pull a gun on me. In that case I pulled onto a sidestreet to avoid a traffic snarl when I was pulled over for an expired registration sticker. I complied with the obviously overwrought officer and did not complicate the situation with ego or defensive posturing. He gave me a warning. I was in the wrong, he was in the wrong, but I did not make it worse, which gave him an out. It could have gone a very different way.

I am familiar with the experiment you mention, and it is a clear example that we are not holy beings with infinite powers, but merely barely evolved apes with a very powerful reptilian portion of our brains. When we have attained the sainthood that you seem to place in the hands of all humans, then we won’t have discussions like this.

And I’m sorry, did I offend you by offering a differing viewpoint so badly that you would infer that I did not belong in this discussion? I didn’t see the “immature, inexperienced revolutionaries only” on the Boing Boing door.

Seems name calling wins points here. No surprise. But I do appreciate those who cogently respond. Thank you.

Anonymous

Yeah, both are in the wrong. Calling a police man in a fucking dick in that situation is stupid. Sadly it’s almost comical when the cop threatens to cripple him and then have him treat him like “the asshole he thinks he is”. Threatening to break a helpless persons arm like a twig is corrupt and a law more punishable than skateboarding and calling someone a dick. Weird situation.

Anonymous

Did everyone miss that the officer said:
“What’s wrong? Just ashamed of yourself?”

He asked what was bothering the kid, he goaded him and insulted him in one go. To respond by twisting his arm, arresting him, confiscating his property (for up to three weeks, he gloats) and then *kicking* him to get him in the car is simply beyond reproach.

What the heck officer? You asked for a citizens opinion on a seemingly tense situation and then you threaten him in response? That’s how you take control in a professional manner?

For those that don’t realize, it’s absolutely legal for the citizen in question to answer the officers question honestly. Even if the answer is emotional and frustrated. The police officer asked. Additionally, the officer is trained to deal with responses like this and he was totally out of line with his response.

Yeah, the kid was being stupid. There’s rarely any reason to speak truth to power, power knows the truth! But the cop is beholden to all of us and now we have the power to say that he should hold his ego and rage back. Especially when he’s dealing with kids that honestly answer a question he poses.

This kind of behavior from the police is unacceptable. They’re certainly supposed to behave better than some kid who poses no physical violence threat to them or anyone else.

Anonymous

The US Supreme Court has ruled that cursing is a form of protected free speech, even to a cop. Dump yes, but not an a crime.

Anonymous

Thank you for allowing anonymous posting here. This is a great example of a time where site registration could lead to serious repercussions in the future.

Anonymous

1. Cop doesn’t say “fucking twig” just “twig”.

2. I never thought I would say this about these police abuse tapes but in this case I feel sorry for the cop. He has to enforce a dumb ordinance and the kid calls him a “fucking dick”. Twice. Clearly the cop is perturbed but except for the comment about breaking the arm, remains completely professional even when harassed a little by bystanders. I wouldn’t have bothered to explain the situation to
them.

3. Remember he doesn’t realize he is on camera. If this is his worst behavior then he’s probably in the top 20% of cops.

Anonymous

Watch the video again. The cop baits the kid by asking for Excedrin….and then continues to ask the kid why he’s pissed off. He knows why.

At 30 seconds that cop says “what’s wrong, you ashamed of yourself”? It’s as if he wants the kid to say something else. So he asks the kid why he’s pissed off and the kid tells him why, “because you are a fucking dick”. So now the cop gets pissed grabs the kid’s arm, twists it and then accuses the kid of resisting arrest. WTF.

Secret_Life_of_Plants

I really don’t understand why people have such a problem with skateboards. My whole life – and I am old enough to be those kids’ mother, I have never been hit with a skateboard. On the other hand, I have been hit with innumerable strollers commandeered by angry mothers. I had no idea that skateboarding was against the law in San Francisco. That is just baffling to me.

But more to the point. Why on god’s green earth, at a time when our state is bankrupt, are we spending the last of our money paying an uneducated thug to rough-up a bunch of punk-ass kids?

SeattlePete

That cops a douche. Period, end of story. If he was a halfway decent human being he could have had a chat with these kids, convinced them of his humanity and asked kindly that they make his life easier by skating somewhere else. I’ve had lots of cops do this for me…given the choice, they’d all rather not have to fill out the paperwork for sh!t like this. There’s no money in rousting skaters.

normd

“Not long ago near my home a 30 year old man was knifed and killed over a casual insult. It’s a tragedy to be sure, but it’s also a lesson: Don’t mouth off to someone you don’t know, unless you’re prepared to face the consequences.”

Um, well, I should assume everyone is insane? People should react to casual insults with equivalent or slightly more stinging casual insults, not violence.

Fool, I have to say your logic is difficult to follow.

fool

@#42 Obviously barbarism has it’s purposes.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/01/farmers-daughter-is.html

fellbackalone

#142…

They may “seem” to you as instruments used only to keep the common man down, but to me they are codes in which everyone who belongs to a society, whether come to by choice or birth, agree to follow.

True, the “real players”, as you refer to the powerbrokers, can find a way out of any situation. Unfortunately, everyone in a position to change things eventually succumbs to the problems that drove them to seek the ability to change. Power creates a desire for conserving the system that brought them to it in the first place.

In other words, don’t count on anyone, even those soldiers that march by your side in the culture wars, to be there when you are still on the bottom and they are on the top.

redconsensus

At #40

Irony, deep like the sea. You seem to think the LEO’s position of authority allows him to brook no disrespect from citizens but are keen to mouth off to those who are moderators here. Not that the two positions of authority are equivalent in any real sense but the principle seems to apply.

Or to paraphrase your earlier commentary ‘I’m not a moderator, but if some little punk spoke to me like that I’d knock his teeth in. I wouldn’t tolerate blatant disrespect, and neither should that moderator, and neither should any other adult.’

fellbackalone

The kid is also, in your words, a douche.

If he was a halfway decent human being he could have had a chat with the officer, convince him of their humanity and offered kindly to make his life easier by skating somewhere else. (this may sound familiar to you.)

In the cases where cops did this for you, did you call them a “fucking dick”?

bolamig

Yet another reason for answering all questions from cops with “I’m not answering questions without a lawyer”.

The kid gave an honest answer to the cop’s question “Why are you pissed off?”, and learned that honest answers to cop’s questions do you no good.

Anonymous

@#46

Obviously, you step aside for the top dawgs and avert your eyes to any of their actions. Duh.

The way Fool speaks of the incident sounds like he’s on the knifer’s side. Talk back and he’ll cut ya.

Anonymous

How is it ever acceptable for a grown man (police man or not) to threaten a kid with breaking his arm? I think a ticket is sufficient punishment for being a skateboarder. The kid wasnt mouthing off, he was only telling the truth,.. that cop was a d*ck with some power trip.

Felix Mitchell

@ #86 FELLBACKALONE

Your post is like 90% assumptions and maybes, 10% bs.

“A provocation such as calling him “a fucking dick” could easily have escalated”

None of the kids threatened him or in any way acted like they would escalate the situation to violence. Anything ‘could’ happen, that doesn’t mean anything.

“If one of the kids had to be “made an example of”, which I believe was required, then so be it.”

If he hadn’t been ‘made an example of’ then all that would have happened is the kids would have been pissed off and left. What in the situation ‘required’ an arrest?

“it is well within the letter of the law to prevent events from escalating”

In no way is this true. Crimes do actually have to occur before you can arrest people for them.

Scott Bieser

Just a general warning to anyone who thinks mere insults merit a beating:

If any of you beats up one of my kids just because he mouthed off to you, you’d better leave the country, because otherwise you’ll be dead in less than a week. I don’t care what you do for a living.

fellbackalone

@138…

“Seems to me to civil thing for someone in a position of authority to do would be not to get riled up from some punk kid calling them a dick.”

Seems that way to me, too. But the officer, like the kids, is only human. There are responses that are preprogrammed into all of us, and no amount of training can overwrite them. Oh, wait, there’s always robots.

“As it is, despite your apologetics we’re left with one more demonstration that cops routinely abuse their authority, a few more people with firsthand evidence that cops deserve nothing but hate and mistrust, and one fucking dick who’ll sleep easy tonight knowing that his authoritah was respected.”

And you can sleep easy tonight firm in your belief that antagonizing representatives of the Law is the best way to affect social change. Hate and mistrust? While I do not hate anyone with an opinion, I do mistrust the motivations of someone so vehemently opposed to order. If I were a paranoid, I might ask, what have you got to hide? Instead, I just feel sorry for your parents.

Antinous / Moderator

fellbackalone,

You’re up to 20 comments in this thread. You’re getting repetitive. Give it a rest.

RikF

@40 It seems to me that the lesson to be learned from that instance is don’t be so juvenile as to respond to insults with violence as tragedy can occur. Be careful that the ‘little punk’ whose teeth you knock out doesn’t come back with a knife or a gun and do worse unto you.

Felix Mitchell

@ #88

No-one would argue the kid is not disposed to douchery. The issue is whether a public servant should respond to perfectly legal douchery in anything but a professional and dispassionate manner, especially towards young people.

Glidedon

The kid should thank the cop for teaching him a life lesson he can use in the future.

fellbackalone

@89…What does the phrase “To Protect and Serve” mean to you? Solely to wait until something happens then punish the purpotrators?

And I admit to “could have happeneds” in my argument, but we are looking at a record of an event. The officer was in the moment which, from his training, could easily have escalated.

Until we can read the minds of all participants, I think erring on the side of caution is valid.

blurgh

@48 Yes, because calling someone a ‘dickhead’ and writing relatively polite little essays after being insulted are exactly equivalent. Fool’s a hypocrite, and their non-Boingboing-standard views can be safely ignored.

@46 Should you assume that everyone’s insane? No, but you’re pretty dumb if you don’t take into account that not everyone always acts as they ‘should’. It would probably be an interesting exercise to call all strangers you meet ‘dickhead’ and see how long it takes for someone to use something other than words back.

I don’t exactly agree with Fool’s view but, a) there should be consequences for being a rude, anti-social dick, and b) in the real world, there are occasional consequences for being a rude, anti-social dick.

fellbackalone

@90…context, my friend. Context.

druranium

@43 Anon
I did hear all of that in the beginning, the bit about the cop asking for headache medicine for the skater and then taunting him with “What’s wrong, just ashamed of yourself?”
The cop was being a power-tripping manchild and the skater called him out on it.
Sad that you really can’t do that to cops these days though because you may end up beaten, tased, or shot.

Beelzebuddy

In all this talk about what happened, it’s important not to miss what didn’t happen: the skater didn’t get tased seven times, beaten within an inch of his life, and hauled in for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer.

In a time when challenging authority, however flippantly, is generally met with overwhelming violence, the mere threatening of such is a significant improvement. +1 points for the SFPD, they’ve managed to find cops that act like human beings, even if they don’t yet think like ones.

nemesys23

In some of the places I’ve lived this cop would be considered cool… cool for *not* snapping the kids’s arm like a twig… because you wouldn’t dare even look at a cop sideways, and if you called him a “fucking dick,” you would be guaranteed to get beaten within an inch of your life instantly, and nobody would be standing around talking shit. And nothing would happen to the cop, ever. That’s the real story in many American cities, especially where there are more people with brown skin. I hope that as video cameras get smaller and cheaper, more of the daily brutality and intimidation will be exposed.

This is one of the main reasons I am hoping for the mass availability of small, wearable, cameras that automatically maintain connectivity to the nearest open wireless networks and upload at regular intervals. With good bandwidth and/or better video compression we could do this now, no?

wrybread

Oh man, I soooo want to mouth off to Fool in person….

mdh

@fool – Obviously barbarism has it’s purposes.

and you link to the story about a woman shooting someone acting like a barbarian…. bravo. You make my point elegantly.

fellbackalone

@93…Thank you for pointing that out.

Anonymous

whatever SF … I am sure some yuppie was upset by all the noise outside of there condo and called the cops to get rid of them. I am sure that skateboards laywer dad will sue the police. Like
SERIOUSLY THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS HAPPENING … COME TO OAKLAND SOMETIME.

danlalan

If the cop had said “If you continue to resist, you may be injured” would we be having this discussion?

While it may be a poorly chosen metaphor, the wording of his warning seems to be the only issue here.

(unless he actually did use excessive force to put the kid into the car, which I can’t see on the tape.)

Anonymous

Wait a minute here? He had it coming to him? The officer asked him a question:
“Why are you pissed off”

And the kid answered truthfully:
“because your being a fucking dick.”

Asking questions you don’t like the answer to and being an asshat about the answers you get in return makes you…. wait for it…

A Dick.

Keep speaking truth to power kid.

Anonymous

thats crazy i live in nyc and ive never seen that shit ive skated all over.. i didnt even know it was illegal to skate at all in san fran
.

Daemon

Xeni, next time please actually watch the video before posting it.

His plan was to warn them off. They insulted him, so he decided to enforce the law, instead of just the warning.

He very clearly states that the charge was skateboarding, which is apparently illegal there, for some reason.

Rule of life: When a cop walks up to you and says “what you’re doing is illegal, but i’ll overlook it if you just go somewhere else” don’t start insulting him.

Kimmo

The cop’s a fucking dick.

I love how bystanders started getting stuck into him; that’s awesome.

San Fransisco: the cops are fucking dicks, but the people are great : )

Anonymous

SF Skateboarding laws, I’m sorry but if you break them it is a offense. If you then fail to produce identification, or well known living address & record, then you can be detained until your positive identity is known.

a) Prohibits skateboarding on any city street at any time, on any sidewalk in any business district at any time, and on any non-business district sidewalk commencing 30 minutes after sunset and ending 30 minutes before sunrise (Traffic Code, Section 100)

b) Prohibits skateboarding “in or about any public transit station (including an outdoor high-level boarding platform), streetcar, cable car, motor coach, trolley coach or other public transit vehicle, including, but not limited to, those stations or vehicles operated by the Bay Area Rapid Transit District” (Traffic Code, Section 128)

c) Prohibits skateboarding in Yerba Buena Gardens, the Japanese Tea Garden, the Arboretum, Conservatory Valley, where it is posted as prohibited, and in South Beach Park or Rincon Park unless otherwise permitted (Park Code Sections 3.05 and 11.02 and Port Code Sections 2.4 and 7.2).

fellbackalone

@96…I think you may be right. Aside from that statement (which Xeni misquoted in the headline) the event seems to have gone much the same as thousands of similar event.

jonathan_v

It seems weird to me that it’s “Illegal” to skateboard in San Francisco

So I went online, and found a few things:

San Francisco Skateboading Laws- 2003
http://www.sfgov.org/site/bdsupvrs_page.asp?id=18376

As crazy and abhorrent as this cop is, isn’t it a bit insane to make skateboarding illegal on streets & sidewalks, except residential sidewalks from dawn to dusk?!?!?

***ESPECIALLY IN SF, which is supposed to be a green city ?!?!***

That’s just insane. Are they going to ban bicycles next? Who the hell pushed for this law ? A coalition of bike manufacturers and the Auto Industry ?

Anonymous

I think we can all agree that if that kid was going solo and none of his buddies were there, he would not have called the officer a “fucking dick” and would have just walked away with a warning. People like to act tough and say dumb shit when they have an audience.

As for the cop, he most likely would have not been an ass either. It seems by the end of the video he felt like he was in a boat load of trouble and needed to defend himself.

Pantograph

@ #50, Internet Tough Guy Bieser,
If you really think murder is an appropriate response to your brat being taught some manners then you don’t belong in human society, and you’re setting up your kids for the same social failure.
Sometimes kids deserve a slap, sometimes their parents do.

fellbackalone

@97…Please tell me what you would have done in the officer’s situation. And please do not cop out with “I would never be a fucking cop.”

Anonymous

As a meta-comment, I can’t help but smile at the rather level headed nature of some of these comments. I’ve missed that for some time. There are a few “frequent flyers” who seem to be quiet lately, and I think it shows for the better.

Katz Nadler

wrybread

@Pantograph: it might not have been clear to you, I know there were a lot of comments here to wade through. But I think Bieser was responding to the tool named Tool, not anything the cop did. Tool is talking about knocking out a kid’s teeth if the kid disrespects him. Tool’s quote, since its so awesomely toolish:

I’m not a cop, but if some little punk spoke to me like that I’d knock his teeth in. I wouldn’t tolerate blatant disrespect, and neither should that cop, and neither should any other adult.

fellbackalone

@99…I knew conspiracy would enter the discussion eventually. Bravo.

Zergonapal

Look, police officers aren’t your enemy, unless you happen to be a criminal I guess…
But nevertheless you should be respectful, hell you should be polite to everyone you meet.
Even if the officer might be wrong, insulting him is also wrong and two wrongs don’t make a right and will get you arrested.
If you don’t have anything good to say just move along.

wrybread

Argh, the q tag isn’t working, so just to be clear, that quote above that starts “I’m not a cop” isn’t from me, its from Tool or Fool or whatever he calls himself in post #31 above.

thivai

Schwab antagonized Stow with the “ashamed of yourself” comment and then walked into a verbal pie-in-the-face by asking, “Why are you pissed off?” What other possible response would you expect from an angry, dumb teenager?

Stow, feeling humiliated and powerless, acted like an angry, dumb teenager. Schwab, the professional peace keeper, handled the situation poorly. However, Stow will have no lasting damage from this encounter. It’s not like his love for cops or his faith in society has been shaken to its very foundation. His arm wasn’t broken, and his career as a dumb teenager isn’t going to be jeopardized by being issued a citation.

Schwab and Stow should both attend a seminar on how not to say things that will make the situation worse for yourself. The investigation and bad PR seem like more than enough of a consequence for Schwab’s bad, but not horrific, behavior. He didn’t blow his top and start shooting/tasing/beating anyone.

Pick your battles, you soldiers of civil liberties. This one doesn’t really seem worth fighting.

Felix Mitchell

@91

Protect and serve to my mind does not involve arresting people to aleviate a personal slight.

A cop is serving all citizens which includes the skaters – he has a balancing act to achieve – how to fairly serve all citizens. His job is not to seek opporunities to punish those who infringe on the sensibilities of others.

hobomike

A cop’s life seems so glamourous. And so rewarding.

fellbackalone

@148…Great analysis.

fellbackalone

@102…Well said.

Although I believe that most of the comments here make the assumption that the skaters are the only ones involved.

As to alleviating a personal slight, I disagree. As I’ve said before, the potential of the situation led to the need for a definitive end. An arrest served as that end. Maybe not the best end, but a definitive end nonetheless.

curtis

Sadly, people who act like this cop, and people who defend such action, are usually victims of childhood abuse themselves.

As kids, they were beaten by people who “loved” them. Children need to make sense of the world so they justify the violence, even see it as something that’s due: “I deserved it”. They integrate it into their worldview and re-enact the pattern with others. They will defend the belief desperatley.

We are a brutal society. Violence _never_ solves anything.

Anonymous

i have just emailed the sfpd in protest about this incident, others may like to do the same, this type of police abuse should not go unchallenged.

Anonymous

I managed to read through all the comments so far, and #s 42, 138, and 191 have it right. Both were in the wrong. I have nothing personal against cops nor skaters, I’ve met plenty from both ends of the spectrum. Both of them in this video stooped to a pretty low level. The kid was an idiot in the first place. Like #167 said, you just have to learn to temporarily swallow your pride and quit being an ass long enough to be left alone.

Unfortunately for too many kids, the teaching of restraint and common courtesy has been all but abandoned by their parents. Its an epidemic that doesn’t just apply by default to “rebellious teens” but to all levels of society. Easy examples: Serena Williams flipping her lid at a match, congressmen interrupting a presidents speech with “you lie” (I don’t even care if it were any other pres. or congressperson), and of course Kanye West’s now infamous mic steal.

As for the cop: he should know better. The kid asked for it, but the cop IS (supposed to be) the responsible adult in the situation. YES, many cops are far far worse, but they shouldn’t be. Big cities make it very easy for bad cops to continue to perpetuate inappropriate behavior, while at the same time making all cops look bad.

It’s a sad spiral that society is in. It’s becoming more acceptable for everyone to disrespect each other, with no regard for authority or youthful ignorance. Makes me just want to move to a hut somewhere in remote New Zealand. Curses… constantly foiled by reality.

As an aside though, did the cop ever ask the age of the boy? He doesn’t have ID, but I don’t think thats a crime if he’s under 18. Aside #2? SanF- fix your skate laws. They may me there to reduce property damage, but there has to be a line.

Antinous / Moderator

SanF- fix your skate laws

Feh. Go to Irving Street, which is clearly posted for no skating, skateboarding or bicycling on the sidewalk. People do it anyway. It’s like riding a bicycle through a crowded subway train full of octagenarians. You want to get rid of the laws, fine. You run down an old lady with your bike, you get ten years, no parole.

bcsizemo

Wow, now I know why kids today are so F’d up.

Did I mouth off to my parents? – No.
Do I mouth off to others and not expect a response? – No.

If someone passes you in the street and taunts you, you may just let it go and move on. That’s understandable, so people will and some will not.

If a child calls his mom a bitch then I would hope she would do something about it. Something other than a time out and “How are feeling?” BS. If I dared talk to my parents in that way or act in that way it was a trip out to the woods to pick out which switch I was going to spanked with. (And yes that did happen once, and yes it did have the intended long term teaching of cause/effect).

I’m not saying the cop isn’t out of line, but I’m also not saying Fool is an idiot either. His viewpoint is on the harsh side, but not unrealistic. Living in a reality where people can verbally abuse others without recourse is not where I want to call home.

Marja

I am sickened by the apologies for police brutality and even child abuse.

Beating kids only teaches them to hate themselves, to obey those with more power, and to hurt those with less power. It leads to a mindset where “authority” comes from a title, a rank, or a gun, instead of from clear REASON.

****

“In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions, and choose that which seems to me the soundest.” -Mikhail Bakunin

fellbackalone

Antinous,

I didn’t realize there was a limit. Just responding to those who responded to me. My apologies.

fellbackalone

@103…well, given your past experience, I guess you can speak for everyone. At least everyone who has pissed off a cop.

And, for the record, carrying a gun does not automatically make everyone a lunatic, present company excluded obviously.

IamInnocent

It seems that bringing one sided examples of bad cops on BB has had the reverse effect that was intended: comments are more and more becoming pro-cops.

I haven’t had a look at the video: that type of complaints here has reached the point of saturation for myself.

I’ve had mostly expected (i.e. professional, slightly boring) to surprisingly good dealings with cops in my life plus one bad and another really, really bad. Two of the very best people I’ve ever met in 55 years of life were cops. One was simply no less than a hero every damn day he lived and the other will remain one of my best buddies for life. Factor in that I am, by nature, very refractory to authorities since my delinquent teens.

Anonymous

“My two cents, as someone who is neither a lawyer, nor a skateboarder: taunting a police officer by calling him a “fckng dck” is about as dumb as it gets, but that does not give the officer the right to threaten to break the guy’s arms”

As a skateboarder, that is the general consensus in our little community as well. We who have been skateboarding for more than a few years, have learned to just say ‘sir’ a lot, bite our tongue and not have to deal with idiotic stuff like this.

steeroy

@Fool

So what you’re saying is, after the cop disrespected the kid with his comment about being ashamed of himself, the kid should have beat shit out of the cop to teach him a lesson?

Or does your system only apply when someone you dislike is disrespectful to someone you do?

fellbackalone

@105…welcome to civilization. Glad to have you. Learn the rules, play nice, and you too can succeed. Ignore the rules, cheat the other players, and you get tossed from the game.

Seriously? Police brutality? Child abuse?

Beelzebuddy

the potential of the situation led to the need for a definitive end.

Only valid in situations that show some indication of escalating, which this certainly didn’t. It was a skater kid, what the hell would you expect, Shakespeare? He wasn’t even being confrontational, just honestly responding to the officer’s question.

You’re basically arguing that cops should arrest everyone who says anything but “yes sir sorry sir i’ll go along guietly sir.” If they dare to make eye contact, they might just have a gun. Better safe than sorry.

Anonymous

Yes, that cop is being a pretty macho jerk.

but honestly, when I lived in San Francisco, I kinda hated the skateboarders that nearly knocked me over many, many, many times.

And obviously if you are about to get let off with a warning, it’s best to just keep your mouth shut.

In San Francisco there’s an extreme hatred for the cops no matter what they do. I once saw this cop skid off his motorcycle and fall on the pavement during Halloween in the Castro. Everyone started cheering and clapping and I thought that was really mean.

Anonymous

Waitaminute… is that the reason it’s wrong to call a policeman names? because it will piss him off and get you arrested?

Zergonapal

First comes the disrespect, then the vandalism and finally the violence.
I think it needs to be law that you can’t disrespect officers of the law. Just like you can be charged with contempt of court.
If people knew that you could be arrested for bad-mouthing a cop then I think it would go a long way to calming situations down to the point where they might be easily defused.

star35

Just why is it that some people consistently seem to think that it’s OK to do the kind of things to young people that would be classed as assault if you did it to an adult?

Anonymous

@ igpajo,
The crime was skateboarding, which is probably a ticketable offense. The arrest was because he didn’t have an ID. Not having an ID isn’t a crime, but if you commit a “crime” you’d better have an ID or you’ll face arrest so they can “prove” your identity. That include jaywalking, traffic violations, “interfering with police” or any other minor violation.

Welcome to the police state.

Tagishsimon

“In any case: viva la video camera.” Except when they’re CCTV, apparently.

failix

Ohi Danlalan, :)

“If the cop had said “If you continue to resist, you may be injured” would we be having this discussion?”

Well… you know at least I would be having it. ^^

Anonymous

a video of a conscientious and thoughtful professional attempting to do a difficult job with difficult people, one against 5/6 (yes he is is armed, but clearly it is neither in his temperament or policy to introduce weaponry in a situation such as this). For a very sensitive and effective (although imo rather longwinded) analysis of a very similar job, going awry for the protagonist despite their very similar best efforts, take a look at the teacher in Cannes festival hit The Class.

Jupiter12

When dealing with the police a simple “Yes, sir” or “No, sir” works a lot better than “You’re a f*cking d*ck.” This kid is a dope. I was once clubbed by NYC police for a lesser offense than this. I have since learned to comply and bring cop situations to an end quickly and cleanly. Suck up your pride and deal with it, kiddo. That way you can go home with your skateboard and not pay a bunch of fines.

Also, were the kids removing sewer grates or something? What was that part about?

noorzhassan

Let’s assume that Zach Stow was completely within his rights as a skateboarder and the cop was completely out of bounds for detaining him. You’ve got to be dumb as a box of rocks to call a cop a “f**g d**k”. Did Zach really expect to get away with that? Did he really expect the cop to roll over? The way I’ve always understood it was when a cop addresses you, you respond with yes/no sir/ma’am–not “dude” or “man” or “f**g d**k”. If he would have maintained a respectful tone, he would have probably gotten off with a simple warning. And if it went beyond that and he had a beef with the officer and his conduct, you collect your evidence and witnesses and fight it out in court. That’s exactly what Zach should have done. Everyone would have been better off for it.

Marja

#105

Saying that the police *should* have hurt the kid, or that adults *should* hurt children, such as #31′s statement that he’d knock someone’s teeth in.

And your idea of civilization is to obey the guys with the guns?

I’m gonna keep working for something better.

fellbackalone

@108…I am arguing for saying “yes sir”. Where has civility gone? Do you also support the “You lie” outburst toward President Obama? I do not support all of his policies, but I do believe the office deserves respect. As do Officers of the Law. They are embodiments of a social contract, one that we all agree to as citizens. If you do not agree to it, there are two choices. Vote to change it or leave.

And I am not arguing for your “if this goes on” scenario. An officer is not the person to argue a point with. That is what courts are for.

Anonymous

was I the only one that noticed that the cop threatened the kid that he was going to break the kids arm if he kept resisting? last I heard cops dont have the right to say something like that. especially since the cop did ask the kid a question and the kid answered honestly. It all amounts to the cop was having a power trip.

Anonymous

From all the “viral” cop videos Ive seen this is pretty mellow… hell it looked like he was even trying to be civil with the skateboarders.

I’d take him over the Burger King cop or the ones at g20 or that bicycle ralley, ect.

Felix Mitchell

How can skateboarding be illegal in a whole city?! That’s insane.

What about snake boards and other variants? Roller blades?

Anonymous

I am currently dating a skater, and in all honesty Iâ€™ve really only dated skaters. Iâ€™m also in the process of going into the police academyâ€¦ yes I know that seems a slightly odd thing to combine.
I wanted to point something out to those of you who seem to have forgottenâ€¦ America was formed by people who wanted change, wanted to be out from under the rule of a tyrant. We were sick of being forced into a little box, unable to do the things we wanted and needed to do. So what did we do? We fought back, we were â€œrude, insolent, terroristsâ€¦ etc.â€ That is how this great country was formed, that is what we are taught in school. We are encouraged by our parents, teachers, friends and many others to be individuals, to be different. Skaters are trying do just that yet find themselves stuck inside a shrinking boxâ€¦ one that threatens to squash them out of existence. They are fighting back the best way they know how. (I mean in all honesty if you were constantly being told you canâ€™t do something you love to do; wouldnâ€™t you eventually get pissed and mouth off?)
The other night while I was out with my boyfriend and his skate crew, we were stopped by two police officers (while we werenâ€™t skating by the way). They reminded us that there was no skating where we were and that we were lucky they didnâ€™t take our skateboards (I donâ€™t skate, not balanced enough). It was then that I realized something, it isnâ€™t cops that are to blame for the problems that skaters are having, at least not completely. The laws that have been put into place (just like the cop on that video was talking about) are made to oppress the minorities that are in this case skaters. (The same thing happened to motorcyclists not too long ago). This add to the fear people have about things they donâ€™t understand (a.k.a. skateboarding) puts up a barrier that for most skaters is insurmountable.
Yes there are some skaterâ€™s that are thugs and do purposefully cause damage, but should we allow those few to fuck it up for the rest? No! We allow basketball, football and movie stars to get away with whatever they want, because they are famousâ€¦ and in all honesty, out of all the skaters Iâ€™ve met the famous sports and movie stars do more damage than all of the skaterâ€™s Iâ€™ve ever come into contact with.
I therefore implore you to try and understand from a skaterâ€™s point of view; see the beauty in what they do. Look at the skills, passion, bravery and love they hold for their sport and try not to be jealousâ€¦ I dare you.

toxonix

Don’t fuck with cops because they do steroids and that makes them ornery.
Being huge is super important to the police in my town. Anyone under 200 lbs is considered scrawny and barely fit for patrol duty.
The exception is the female cops, who around here are awesome. I’ve been stopped a few times for being ‘suspicious looking’ and the female officers treated me very well, and hopefully I showed them the respect they’ve earned.

Anonymous

I’m no fan of the police in any country, but I don’t think this officer has done anything wrong. The original skateboarder brought it on himself by being a smartmouth, and then the people in the background giving the officer grief were just being dicks.

failix

I was once clubbed by NYC police for a lesser offense than this. I have since learned to comply and bring cop situations to an end quickly and cleanly.

That’s the spirit…

fellbackalone

@110…For the record, I support your efforts to change the society you live in.

But “guys with guns” are not what I obey. I obey the Social Contract. The fact that not everyone obeys that contract is the reason why those “guys” have to wear those “guns”.

bklynchris

Is their really a difference between “fucking” and “fcking”? It causes a synaptic hiccup every time I have to subconsciously add vowels. Its like grading my 7 yo’s homework.

MarkM

What kind of camera was the guy carrying: fisheye lens and apparently small enough that he could tape the guy the whole time holding it at his side undetected– curious what model it would be…

pjk

Great use of taxpayer money. Isn’t there like an actual crime being committed somewhere or something?

MB

It may seem kind of stupid, but us adults really need to take note of shit like this. Not acceptable.

Anonymous

For some reason, “God Is A Bullet” by Concrete Blonde keeps running through my head…

Marja

Whatever happened to the principle that people deserve respect, and reason confers authority?

To suggest that titles, offices, and the like deserve respect, or hold authority, is to return to the nonsense of the “Divine Right of Kings.”

Obeying them because they have badges and guns is not civility. It is servility.

Anonymous

the kid was totally right to call out the cop
but you don’t use any of the 7 words.

call him a powertripping maniac

ask if he got bullied as a kid and if that’s the reason he’s acting like this.

do what the cop does
make smartass taunting remarks without being rude or swearing.

and if the cop threatens to snap your arm like a twig
call him out on it.
if he breaks your arm on video after that threat he’s fucked for sure.

PapayaSF

I’m not sure what the lesson here is, beyond “Calling police officers names can tick them off and get you arrested.”

Anonymous

It is called “contempt of cop”. This law is as old as laws get.

dxtr666

More and more feeling like I need to have a camera on me at all times.

ADavies

I don’t get what the whole debate is about.

If someone mouths off at me on the street, am I within my legal rights to respond with violence? No.

Surely, the rules should be the same for police officers.

ps. #12 – Yeah, that’s the WTF question.

Tensegrity

I am not one to take overreach of authority lightly, but the only lesson I see here is [call a cop a dick to his face] = [go to jail]

Seems a simple enough thing to avoid.

Anonymous

cool fisheye

Wingo

Whoever the guy is that said “That’s what I used to say to my mom when I kicked my little brother” is my hero.

Anonymous

That’s not taunting a police officer.
He’s a fucking dick. The nice guy just told the officer what he asked him about.

The bigger problem is that people are so afraid of police that the general response is always, “Oh, he should have known better than to piss of a cop, he had that beating coming…”

IronEdithKidd

Fellbackalone, the United States is a Constitutional Republic with three branches of government that function as checks and balances on one another. Unbridled, unchecked power in the hands of one branch isn’t part of the social contract if you’re a citizen of the US.

If you wish to have a different social contract, I suggest you find a totalitarian regime that better suits your personality.

My preference is to restore the social contract I actually agreed upon wherein I don’t have to worry about my son coming home with bruises inflicted upon him by some jack-booted thug with a badge.

Felix Mitchell

The legal side as it appears in the video is that skateboarding is illegal in SF, the cop was warning the kids. Zack calls him a dick so the cop decides to cite him instead of just a warning, but since Zack has no ID he takes him down to the station.

That’s why he asks about ID before arresting him. I guess if Zack had produced ID then he would have just issued a citation for skating like he threatens to do to other kids in the second half of the video.

Marja

It can get you a lot worse than arrested…

Which shows that some officers act like fckng dcks, and the police, as an institution, are not willing to keep their members from acting like fckng dcks.

Anonymous

You can’t do nuthin in Frisco anymore.
The $$$ kilt it!

Marja

A contract requires mutual consent. The existing social arrangements begin with force.

I believe a society could organize along principles of mutual consent, but it’s something we need to work to create. It’s not something that we have.

mikeyg

I watched the whole video.
The Cop Acted like a Cop.
The punk acted like a punk.
I have three boys. If one of them acted like this, I would side with the Cop. Life lesson.

grimc

Strictly speaking, the cop didn’t say “fucking”. Or “fcking,” for that matter.

Anonymous

WOW…I can not believe people are upset with this cop! He was not only doing his job, but was doing it so admirably. He explained everything he was doing, warned what he would do, and took minimal measures against those breaking the law each and every step of the way.

If people want a society that is more respectful, law abiding, and communities in which they want to live, then they need to wake-up! NONE of this would have happened if not for the kid first mouthing off, then the citizens doing so as well.

FYI…Not cooperating with being cuffed and/or getting into the car is resisting arrest. This is considered a very serious offense.

He was just doing a field check and let everyone off with a warning. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FROM OUR CIVIL SERVANTS?!!! There were only two other alternatives: 1) Ignore the complaint all together, or 2) Don’t bother with cutting anyone any slack and just arrest violators and warn anyone interfering that they are subject to arrest as well. Period!

What idiots!

fellbackalone

@113…that’s the Social Contract. Boils down to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I wish you luck on your upcoming maturity.

thecheat

I think the whole situation could have been avoided of the skaters had just said, “sorry, we don’t have any asprin” and the kid who got arrested wasn’t being a dick.

I’m not saying the cop is blameless, he was in full-scale CYA mode and I’m surprised that he didn’t call for backup.

To be honest, I’m surprised the cop didn’t arrest the one guy for “obstruction” who was going back and forth with him.

Anonymous

Sounds to me like the kids were up to a little more than just skateboarding… pulling up man holes and vandalizing cars? The video makes them look a little more innocent then they probably were. I do think the cop was a dick though, but I think I dislike his personality and attitude more than his actions.

fellbackalone

@114…sounds like common sense to me…

Anonymous

interesting. when I was bmxing and doing various stupid things as a child, we always just ran in 8 directions when the blue lights flashed…

normd

compared to the “baltimore cop” this sfpd cop looks pretty reasonable. obviously he loses his temper, but does a reasonable job of containing it.

desiredusername

I know that’s viral but three years ago the chron did a special report on the SFPD that is much worse than a video about verbal assaults from cops.

http://cdn.sfgate.com/useofforce/

igpajo

So is it really an arrestable crime to be without ID?

daneyul

A cop can not arrest you for calling him names. However, being human, most cops will go by the book and get you on any technicality they can if you do so. Shit, I do the same in my job–rude customers are not going to get the above and beyond service I tend to provide everyone else.

In this case I don’t see a problem with the cop. If he indeed was “cutting them some slack” and wasn’t citing them, and the kid threw it back in his face, it’s reasonable at that point to no longer cut him any slack. The “violence” of putting him in handcuffs and putting him in the car is part of the arrest process–I didn’t see anything beyond the necessary force to do so.

There are -lots- of videos of asshole cops who should be fired. This isn’t one of ‘em.

fellbackalone

Antinous,

May I respond to #162?

mgfarrelly

So if some scrawny skater boy cusses at him this cop feels the need to threaten and, apparently, rough up the kid.

What’s Officer Friendly going to do if he encounters some proper villains? Fire his sidearm into the crowd? Call for an airstrike?

Yeah, the kid was baiting him. But being a fool who bites on that bait means you shouldn’t be in law enforcement. Heck, it means you’re barely an adult.

tuneintokyo

The guy who was threatened did not resist from what I saw in the video. Although he said something to the police officer he probably shouldn’t have said, he didn’t break a law in speaking what was on his mind. The fact that the police officer used force because he was offended by a comment is scary.

Powell

FELLBACKALONE
@89…What does the phrase “To Protect and Serve” mean to you? Solely to wait until something happens then punish the purpotrators?
How exactly was that cop protecting or serving?
Cops have no duty to protect by the way, see Warren vs DC, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

pyster

The kid was arrested for what amounts to “contempt of cop”. If someone disrespects you, hurts your feelings, ect you do not have the right to become violent or use your authority to screw with the kids life. A night in jail for skate boarding and calling a cop a dick? Any of you jackasses that feel that is ok should just stick your head in an oven.

When dealing with authorities one should always be yes sir and no sir, because these people are emotionally unstable and have been given the right to fuck up your life. When yes sir and no sir do not work (like in the case of the cop who tackled a random cyclist for no reason or any of the other video we see often) you have almost no chance of not getting fucked if there are not cameras rolling.

I think cops should have to wear A/V recording (that transmits off site) gear so that ALL police interactions become a matter of public record. This would force them to act like civilized and professional human beings.

That cop should be caned and then fired.

grimc

@12

If I’m understanding the SFPD statement in the Chron article right, the crime was the skateboarding code violation, and the kid was put into custody because he didn’t have ID. I’m guessing that the violation merits a citation, but if the citee doesn’t have ID so the cop can fill out a citation, then the citee is hauled in so proper identification can be made.

As for the video, Dick, meet Dumbass. Dumbass, this is Dick.

Anonymous

I’m moving to SF.. That would have got you shot here.

Kimmo

Fellbackalone, I’m sure there are policy enforcement officers who are fundamentally nice people.

But I refer you to the Milgram experiment and the Stanford Prison experiment and the near certainty that I’m not the first to tell you that you owe your position of smug condescension not to any special personal attributes you can take credit for but primarily the circumstances surrounding your existence, doled out by chance.

Maybe kids on skateboards and people who might look like they’re stealing something don’t actually deserve a jackboot stamping on their face, huh?

What are you doing here, anyway, if not trolling?

ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive

The people that should be embarassed are that kid’s parents. What kind of person would raise a disrespectful little twerp like that? I hope the parents give him the smack that he deserves, but the cop couldn’t give him himself.

Powell

Also
Solely to wait until something happens then punish the purpotrators?
Yeah, you cant arrest on the basis of something that might happen. Also a cops job is NOT punishment.
Buffoon.

Anonymous

As a skater for 15 years, I have to say I’ve seen my fair share of police. The skater was in the wrong, being a total douche ball, and should realize that his ignorance only fuels the flames against skateboarding. Skateboarding is destructive. But for the most part it’s cosmetic damage to objects that are simply ignored by the masses. The skater wasn’t manhandled in anyway. The cop was collected and fair. When cops come, you apologize and leave, putting back anything you moved. You treat a good cop with respect and next time they see you, most times they will let you slide. That’s how you prevent spots from being a bust and stem the hate. The kid makes us look bad.

Anonymous

He didn’t Miranda him, isn’t that still law in the US?

Anonymous

The authority-worshiping tendency among certain commenters is here amplified by the identity of this cop’s victim: Fascists love cops, but on top of that they really hate teenagers, and skateboarders.

No, guys, actually it is not a cop’s job to control everything, everywhere, all the time, punishing every available target for imaginary paranoid crimes like “provocation” and “potential energy.”

Anonymous

“When you call a man a pig, you call out the pig in the man.” -Alan Ginsberg

Perhaps a little better differentiation between what is legal and what we think is right is called for.

Having read all of these comments so far, I felt I should weigh in. BB readers love to celebrate “speaking the truth to power”, but seem to have problems with accepting the repercussions of such speech. The bottom line is that these kids were breaking the law and should have all been cited, as it sounds like they ultimately were, thanks to some helpful citizens. Instead of doing that, Badge #2099 attempts to give them a verbal warning and send them on their merry way. One of the brave/stupid ones decides it would be better to swear at and insult an appointed uniformed official.

I’m not 100% on California law, but swearing at/ insulting a uniformed officer is readily classifiable in many (read: most) municipalities as disorderly conduct. This is done so that an officer can protect himself or others by detaining a belligerent subject before said subject becomes violent or dangerous, as opposed to waiting politely until someone gets hurt or a crime is comitted. It’s a prevention strategy, and one that works.

Obviously, this is left for the on-scene officer to determine, and from my personal experience I can tell you that most cops prefer to err on the side of caution – i.e. if you give them even a tiny amount of grief, you can expect not only no further leniency or cooperation, but also a trip downtown, seized property, etc.

Fight with, disobey or struggle against any arrest and you can add resisting to your growing list of offences. Once you resist, the officer may use as much force as is necessary to bring you in, up to and including a swift kick in the ass. It’s the law.

Don’t like the law? Start a campaign to change it. Write a letter to the mayor. Do Not Think that you can break the law and then insult a person appointed with the enforcement of said law and then walk away with your pals and have a nice laugh about it. It isn’t going to happen. This particular officer may not have been in the right ethically speaking, but he was well within his rights in arresting (though not threatening) this skater legally speaking.

My interpretation is that this young man sorely needed a lesson in respect for others in general and those in authority in particular, and for his pains got exactly that. Next time he can bite his tongue and go home with a warning. Maybe I’m a Dick for thinking this way, but hey – we all have to live here.

Anonymous

I still don’t understand how some people think that stupidity on the part of one party ever merits violence and abuse of power and authority on the part of another party.

~D. Walker

SeattlePete

@fellbackalone:

The kid is not a douche. The kid is a powerless teenager who is angry and upset in the presence of authority. A kid who obviously feels as though he is being unjustly singled out and harassed. The cop has all of the power in this situation, and it is up to him to direct the action.

Also, the cop is lying in the video in an attempt to cover up his actions (“I didn’t kick him”). This is exactly what perps do when cops investigate crimes. “It’s not my pipe!”…”It was in your jacket”…”I just found this jacket!”…

The cop knows he was in the wrong and is vocalizing what he WANTED to have happened. He wanted to have not kicked this kid. He wanted to not have threatened him.

This cop is a douche.

Anonymous

Perhaps this xkcd is relevant: http://xkcd.com/172/

fellbackalone

Antinous,

May I respond to #167?

Variyen

I did not read through every post, but the majority seems to think it was a bad idea calling the cop names. There are definitely times when it is a bad idea, but as a skateboarder who has gone to court even when being as nice and cooperative as one can get, there are a lot of times when your opinion just has to be voiced; and with cops and legal affairs, unless you slur them right there in the moment, they really don’t care or take any of your grief to heart. With all of the cops I’ve dealt with, they act like they are doing you a favor by arresting you or giving you a fine, and really, when you’re in that situation, there’s no other way to get them on your side, so the best you can do is call them out on what they’re doing, and hope that the action is more towards bold rebellion than plain stupidity. In the video, you can tell the cop doesn’t care when he coaxes the others in the video to ‘file a complaint, do whatever you want’ because in the end it won’t affect him one bit. All you can do as a skateboarder on the wrong side of the law is hit the officer where it hurts as he takes you down. He’ll take you down harder, yeah, but when it happens enough times, you feel the need to stand up for yourself.

Anonymous

skateboarding is not a crime.

ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive

The cop was protecting drivers who might have driven into an open manhole, and pedestrians who might be harmed by skateboarders doing tricks for the camera instead of looking where they were going. As it has been stated already, in San Francisco, skateboarding in business districts is against the law. The cop was perfectly correct in enforcing it. He was also within his rights to let the kid know what would happen if he resisted arrest. When the kid has an attitude like that, he is displaying ignorance of the seriousness of the situation. He could just as well try something stupid to resist as to run his mouth off stupidly.

frenchtoastkiss

I’ve been a skateboarder (in San Francisco no less!) for 14 years now have been faced with many people (cops and “good samaritans”) who act juuuuuust like this sooooooo many times. People really don’t like skateboarding much. And they are very protective of their precious cement benches and the like. That video made my blood boil. Cops like that make me sick.

Anonymous

I’m not always wild about cops, but to paraphrase what Donna Brazile said after the Gates incident in Cambridge, when a cop stops you, just put your head down andkeep your mouth shut. One of the first things they teach new cops is that they have to take control of situations (for good reasons. See: Barney Fife). Letting kids mouth off like that is a challenge to that control. No halfway decent cop is going to leave that unanswered. Having said that, the cop could have been more artful about things.

The cop was probably right about those kids being in violation. The only instance where the law specifically does not outlaw skateboarding on public streets or sidewalks is on non-business district sidewalks during the daylight hours, with the 30 minute thingy. The code has three clauses, to paraphrase: 1) No Skateboarding on the street EVER; 2)No Skateboarding on business district side walks EVER; 3) You can skate on NON business district SIDEWALKS from 30 min after sunup to 30 min before sundown. The three clauses are independent, and the daylight part only applies to the third clause.

So here’s what’s going to happen: the cop is going to be told not to get into verbal matches with onlookers because it looks bad, he will get teased by his fellow policemen, and he will never, ever cut a skateboarder some slack. They will all be getting tickets in the future, no mouthing off required. And if SF skateboarders heed Richard Ault’s “legal” opinion, I’m sure there will be plenty of tickets given.

thechicgeek

I don’t know. Sure, the cop maybe overreacted a bit, but did nothing wrong. Look kids, here’s a PSA for you: If you fcked up, and the cops have you by the cojones, don’t make it harder on yourself by insulting the officer that’s at least trying to be civil to you.

Kids got what they deserved….for once.

Anonymous

officers of the law deserve respect, but so do the citizens they serve. What is blaringly ignored in this conversation is that the officer provocated the response by insulting and belittling a TEENAGER. Given the whole situation is quite mild compared to the real problem of police brutality, we can only hope more videos like this come out.

In Summary, Fuck The Police

Anonymous

The police office IS a dick. I watched the video twice, and I could not see any sign of the skateboarder “resisting arrest” as claimed by the officer. To them cite EVERYONE present because they CALMLY challenged his arrest of the skateboarder is outrageous. Yes, calling a police office a f**ing d**k is not the smartest thing to do, but this incident, like the Gates incident in Cambridge, illustrates what’s wrong with the police in the USA – they too often behave as petty, power-drunk bullies.

It’s time that the police realize that they serve the public, not own it.

Kimmo

I reckon this is a pretty good example of incompatibly divergent perspectives…

Marshall

What’s with the disemvoweling in the post? Did the rating around here suddenly drop to G?

Antinous / Moderator

What’s with the disemvoweling in the post?

Post titles get linked elsewhere. You can still be filthy (but not rude) in the comments.

Anonymous

skateboarding is not a crime.

in San Francisco, apparently, it is….

mdh

@ bklynchris #1 Is their really a difference between “fucking” and “fcking”?

Is there really a difference between “Brooklyn” and “bklyn”, Chris?

Antinous / Moderator

I have to say that in 23 years in SF, I had very positive experiences with the SFPD. Yes, even the time that I tried to beat Nancy Reagan with a megaphone.

San Francisco police officer arresting skateboarder: "I'll break your arm like a fckng twig."

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