Comments on: Joey Roth on design http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Joey Roth http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615710 Joey Roth Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615710 Thanks for your comments, and thanks Rob for this interview. I worked with an audio engineer who is somewhat obsessed with small speakers to design this system. Their shape and materials are my attempt to make his physics-dictated requirements look good. The driver is modified quite a bit for this enclosure- its cone material is paper, the magnet has been enlarged and motor modified, and the dust cap has been replaced with an aluminum phase plug (non-moving). These mods extend the driver's range and help it compensate for the enclosure's small size and baffle-free design. The enclosure itself is indeed a wave guide. The cork on the back is coated on the inside with natural wool, so it essentially "eats" the sound waves that would otherwise be reflected off of the flat back plane. The curved inner walls of the enclosure are designed to be predictably reflective. The amp is based on the Tripath 2024 chip, which you can read more about here: http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/tripath_amps_e.html We chose the Tripath because it adds minimal color to the signal and intensifies the speaker's already optimized sound stage. It is also efficient and compact, allowing me more freedom with the amp's small design. My overall goal with this system was to create the most simple path from source to ear, so that the details of high-resolution music (FLAC, vinyl, etc) could be enjoyed. I also worked to optimize the system's size and physical beauty. If you have any other technical or more general questions, don't hesitate to email me: joey@joeyroth.com Thanks for your comments, and thanks Rob for this interview. I worked with an audio engineer who is somewhat obsessed with small speakers to design this system. Their shape and materials are my attempt to make his physics-dictated requirements look good. The driver is modified quite a bit for this enclosure- its cone material is paper, the magnet has been enlarged and motor modified, and the dust cap has been replaced with an aluminum phase plug (non-moving). These mods extend the driver’s range and help it compensate for the enclosure’s small size and baffle-free design. The enclosure itself is indeed a wave guide. The cork on the back is coated on the inside with natural wool, so it essentially “eats” the sound waves that would otherwise be reflected off of the flat back plane. The curved inner walls of the enclosure are designed to be predictably reflective.

The amp is based on the Tripath 2024 chip, which you can read more about here: http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/tripath_amps_e.html

We chose the Tripath because it adds minimal color to the signal and intensifies the speaker’s already optimized sound stage. It is also efficient and compact, allowing me more freedom with the amp’s small design.

My overall goal with this system was to create the most simple path from source to ear, so that the details of high-resolution music (FLAC, vinyl, etc) could be enjoyed. I also worked to optimize the system’s size and physical beauty.

If you have any other technical or more general questions, don’t hesitate to email me: joey@joeyroth.com

]]> By: eustace http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-616011 eustace Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-616011 Concerning resonance - there is no such animal as a non-resonant material. But ceramic is so exceptionally rigid that it may well not resonate at audio frequencies; this would allow it to function as a waveguide. The size and shape appear be inexpensively manufacturable as well. Kudos Mr. Roth! It is a thing of beauty. Concerning resonance – there is no such animal as a non-resonant material. But ceramic is so exceptionally rigid that it may well not resonate at audio frequencies; this would allow it to function as a waveguide. The size and shape appear be inexpensively manufacturable as well. Kudos Mr. Roth! It is a thing of beauty.

]]> By: Quibbler http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615529 Quibbler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615529 Seems just about the worst thing to make speaker enclosures out of. Speaker enclosures should be soft and non-resonant. Also you need some sort of pressure equalization or as the cone moves in the air inside the enclosure will be compressed - not good. Seems just about the worst thing to make speaker enclosures out of. Speaker enclosures should be soft and non-resonant. Also you need some sort of pressure equalization or as the cone moves in the air inside the enclosure will be compressed – not good.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615531 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615531 The link to the speaker PDF file has an extra ')' at the end making it invalid. Great commentary on the long-term fallacies of ironic design. Good show Mr. Roth. The link to the speaker PDF file has an extra ‘)’ at the end making it invalid. Great commentary on the long-term fallacies of ironic design. Good show Mr. Roth.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-616816 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-616816 This was a very good, thoughtful interview. No one asks, "who is your competition?", and it's a very good question because it's reveals so much if answered with any earnestness. The answer about competitors and enemies was even better. This was a very good, thoughtful interview. No one asks, “who is your competition?”, and it’s a very good question because it’s reveals so much if answered with any earnestness. The answer about competitors and enemies was even better.

]]> By: Ernunnos http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-616062 Ernunnos Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-616062 This is the same concept as B&W Nautilus speakers. It's basically sound. (Ha!) The cork plug is a bit cheap looking though. The texture is nice, but it's not really strong enough to be mounting hardware in. I'd rather see the binding posts mounted in a cap of ceramic, metal, or wood, with a cork or rubber gasket ring. This is the same concept as B&W Nautilus speakers. It’s basically sound. (Ha!) The cork plug is a bit cheap looking though. The texture is nice, but it’s not really strong enough to be mounting hardware in. I’d rather see the binding posts mounted in a cap of ceramic, metal, or wood, with a cork or rubber gasket ring.

]]> By: ROSSINDETROIT http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-616069 ROSSINDETROIT Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-616069 I'd quibble with the speaker connectors as well. As a matter of safety I never use all metal connectors any more where significant voltage and low impedance is present. They can get shorted together too easily and who knows how the amplifier that's connected will react to this. Fire is one way. There are a number of safe speaker connection types that are fool proof and look decent. Speakon is one. I’d quibble with the speaker connectors as well. As a matter of safety I never use all metal connectors any more where significant voltage and low impedance is present. They can get shorted together too easily and who knows how the amplifier that’s connected will react to this. Fire is one way. There are a number of safe speaker connection types that are fool proof and look decent. Speakon is one.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615565 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615565 I disagree that this is the "worst" material for transducers. It is not as simple as "ceramics bad" because it depends on the process and implementation. Certainly this speaker is better in most ways than a particle board box. Standing waves are way worse than any potential resonance. Hard wood and stuff like marble might be a better material choice, however. See norh.com for prior art. I disagree that this is the “worst” material for transducers. It is not as simple as “ceramics bad” because it depends on the process and implementation. Certainly this speaker is better in most ways than a particle board box. Standing waves are way worse than any potential resonance.

Hard wood and stuff like marble might be a better material choice, however.

See norh.com for prior art.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615572 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615572 quibbler, speaker enclosures need not be sound-deadening when they are functional wave guides. They only need to be sound-absorbent when they are so poorly designed (c.g. rectangular boxes) that their haphazard reflection of sound waves would destructively interfere with the reproduction of the desired waveform. I have no idea if these speakers are viable wave guides in real use, but they look like they could be. quibbler, speaker enclosures need not be sound-deadening when they are functional wave guides. They only need to be sound-absorbent when they are so poorly designed (c.g. rectangular boxes) that their haphazard reflection of sound waves would destructively interfere with the reproduction of the desired waveform. I have no idea if these speakers are viable wave guides in real use, but they look like they could be.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-942743 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-942743 Pertaining to many of the previous comments: Have you ever struck your fingernail or another object against your mother or grandmothers porcine vase. I can recall it making a nicely clean pitch in what ever key that vase's structure allowed it to. So ask yourself what is acoustically better material? Right on for Joey Roth in making anything that could produce and or alter sound. By the way Wikipedia is not the be all end all of research. Pertaining to many of the previous comments: Have you ever struck your fingernail or another object against your mother or grandmothers porcine vase. I can recall it making a nicely clean pitch in what ever key that vase’s structure allowed it to. So ask yourself what is acoustically better material? Right on for Joey Roth in making anything that could produce and or alter sound. By the way Wikipedia is not the be all end all of research.

]]> By: Ernst Gruengast http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615582 Ernst Gruengast Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615582 With a single wide-range speaker with a list price of 40 Euro and no baffle there is no way this speaker will have close to the kind of acoustic performance anyone could expect for something in this price class. And from the way Joey talks about it, he has clearly not thought about it in acoustic terms at all, so god knows what kind of electonics is in there. At least the kind of folk that make mid-price mini-speakers which can only fail from the get-go (eg Bose) put their mind to tinkering with the insides to try to make it sound half reasonable (usually with dubious success). There are a hundred aesthetically beautiful and/or radical speakers costing this much which are properly designed, ie which synthesize visual and acoustic aesthetics. Why BB is giving space to something so obviously poorly designed is beyond me. With a single wide-range speaker with a list price of 40 Euro and no baffle there is no way this speaker will have close to the kind of acoustic performance anyone could expect for something in this price class. And from the way Joey talks about it, he has clearly not thought about it in acoustic terms at all, so god knows what kind of electonics is in there. At least the kind of folk that make mid-price mini-speakers which can only fail from the get-go (eg Bose) put their mind to tinkering with the insides to try to make it sound half reasonable (usually with dubious success).
There are a hundred aesthetically beautiful and/or radical speakers costing this much which are properly designed, ie which synthesize visual and acoustic aesthetics. Why BB is giving space to something so obviously poorly designed is beyond me.

]]> By: ROSSINDETROIT http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615864 ROSSINDETROIT Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615864 This system is pretty good technically. The TB driver is a very decent performer and Tripath 'digital' amps have the respect of a lot of critical listeners. There's no reason this shouldn't sound significantly better than typical powered speakers and it should stomp most computer type speakers. In terms of aesthetic design it's yards ahead of anything like it. This DIY audiophile gives it a thumbs up. This system is pretty good technically. The TB driver is a very decent performer and Tripath ‘digital’ amps have the respect of a lot of critical listeners. There’s no reason this shouldn’t sound significantly better than typical powered speakers and it should stomp most computer type speakers. In terms of aesthetic design it’s yards ahead of anything like it. This DIY audiophile gives it a thumbs up.

]]> By: Quibbler http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615616 Quibbler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615616 This is neither a transducer or a waveguide. It is a polypropylene cone car speaker stuck in a vase. This is neither a transducer or a waveguide. It is a polypropylene cone car speaker stuck in a vase.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615651 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615651 I have a quibble with Quibbler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transducer "A transducer is a device, electrical, electronic, electro-mechanical, electromagnetic, photonic, or photovoltaic, that converts one type of energy or physical attribute to another for various purposes including measurement or information transfer (for example: pressure sensors). ... An example of an actuator is a loudspeaker which converts an electrical signal into a variable magnetic field and, subsequently, into acoustic waves." Please don't mess with the internet. It is pedantic, and quick to anger. I have a quibble with Quibbler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transducer

“A transducer is a device, electrical, electronic, electro-mechanical, electromagnetic, photonic, or photovoltaic, that converts one type of energy or physical attribute to another for various purposes including measurement or information transfer (for example: pressure sensors). … An example of an actuator is a loudspeaker which converts an electrical signal into a variable magnetic field and, subsequently, into acoustic waves.”

Please don’t mess with the internet. It is pedantic, and quick to anger.

]]> By: Quibbler http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615664 Quibbler Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615664 I haven't yet commented on the plywood "stand" which it is claimed is made form baltic pine. The amp is actually a switched mode design which I'm sure the purists would not approve of. Thank goodness the design includes oxygen free copper and banana plugs. I haven’t yet commented on the plywood “stand” which it is claimed is made form baltic pine.
The amp is actually a switched mode design which I’m sure the purists would not approve of.
Thank goodness the design includes oxygen free copper and banana plugs.

]]> By: m2key http://boingboing.net/2009/10/19/joey-roth-on-design.html#comment-615678 m2key Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-615678 Looks purty, but it wont have good audio reproduction with a mid-range/whizzer cone speaker crammed into that "vase" as a previous commenter called it. Looks purty, but it wont have good audio reproduction with a mid-range/whizzer cone speaker crammed into that “vase” as a previous commenter called it.

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