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	<title>Comments on: Do chimps&#160;grieve?</title>
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		<title>By: Sekino</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622594</link>
		<dc:creator>Sekino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622594</guid>
		<description>Animal emotions have been proven to the extent that humans&#039; emotions have been &#039;proven&#039; (i.e. some of the biochemestry).

By acknowledging that animals have emotions, &lt;i&gt;nobody is saying that they feel or experience them as we do&lt;/i&gt;. Even among humans, the range and expression of emotions vary widely. Grief isn&#039;t experienced the same way in all cultures and from person to person. Even if the chimps above will probably be eating or having sex within minutes, it&#039;s not enough to completely dismiss that they are experiencing a form of grief at that moment.  

There are still debates whether human infants feel pain and emotions. Their expressions are still often written off as unconcious reflexes up to a certain age, probably because they can&#039;t talk therefore we see them as sub-human (or pre-human), like little eating/pooping machines, like &#039;animals&#039;. Only recently (10-20 years) have serious research been conducted to prove that performing surgery or distressing interventions &lt;i&gt;without anesthetics&lt;/i&gt; on infants was actually painful, scary and scarring to the child.

We&#039;re advanced as a species, but we&#039;re also arrogant and make hasty conclusions.        </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Animal emotions have been proven to the extent that humans&#8217; emotions have been &#8216;proven&#8217; (i.e. some of the biochemestry).</p>
<p>By acknowledging that animals have emotions, <i>nobody is saying that they feel or experience them as we do</i>. Even among humans, the range and expression of emotions vary widely. Grief isn&#8217;t experienced the same way in all cultures and from person to person. Even if the chimps above will probably be eating or having sex within minutes, it&#8217;s not enough to completely dismiss that they are experiencing a form of grief at that moment.  </p>
<p>There are still debates whether human infants feel pain and emotions. Their expressions are still often written off as unconcious reflexes up to a certain age, probably because they can&#8217;t talk therefore we see them as sub-human (or pre-human), like little eating/pooping machines, like &#8216;animals&#8217;. Only recently (10-20 years) have serious research been conducted to prove that performing surgery or distressing interventions <i>without anesthetics</i> on infants was actually painful, scary and scarring to the child.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re advanced as a species, but we&#8217;re also arrogant and make hasty conclusions.        </p>
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		<title>By: stanleyk</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622349</link>
		<dc:creator>stanleyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622349</guid>
		<description>It amuses me that some here dismiss out of hand the idea of chimp grief as inappropriate anthropomorphizing, but then say something like &quot;it&#039;s probably just curiosity.&quot; Where exactly do you draw the line on anthropomorphizing? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It amuses me that some here dismiss out of hand the idea of chimp grief as inappropriate anthropomorphizing, but then say something like &#8220;it&#8217;s probably just curiosity.&#8221; Where exactly do you draw the line on anthropomorphizing? </p>
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		<title>By: travelina</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622606</link>
		<dc:creator>travelina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622606</guid>
		<description>The chimpanzee Dorothy spent 25 years in an amusement park in Cameroon where she was tethered to the ground by a chain around her neck, taunted, teased, and taught to drink beer and smoke cigarettes for sport.  More backstory here, at National Geographic&#039;s Blog Central:
http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/10/the-story-behind-our-photo-of-grieving-chimps.html
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The chimpanzee Dorothy spent 25 years in an amusement park in Cameroon where she was tethered to the ground by a chain around her neck, taunted, teased, and taught to drink beer and smoke cigarettes for sport.  More backstory here, at National Geographic&#8217;s Blog Central:<br />
<a href="http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/10/the-story-behind-our-photo-of-grieving-chimps.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/10/the-story-behind-our-photo-of-grieving-chimps.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: uricacid</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622357</link>
		<dc:creator>uricacid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622357</guid>
		<description>people refuse to believe animals have emotions just because they lack the big juicy cortex required to write emo songs or fill a sketchbook with sad drawings.  nobody ever thinks that it&#039;s far more likely that we humans have used our giant brains to overly embellish the natural biological responses that arose in social vertebrates eons ago.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>people refuse to believe animals have emotions just because they lack the big juicy cortex required to write emo songs or fill a sketchbook with sad drawings.  nobody ever thinks that it&#8217;s far more likely that we humans have used our giant brains to overly embellish the natural biological responses that arose in social vertebrates eons ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622359</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622359</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why animals wouldn&#039;t have emotions, or consciousness. Then again, I believe in evolution. It makes sense to me that our emotions and consciousness must have evolutionary precursors in our evolutionary ancestors and offshoots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why animals wouldn&#8217;t have emotions, or consciousness. Then again, I believe in evolution. It makes sense to me that our emotions and consciousness must have evolutionary precursors in our evolutionary ancestors and offshoots.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622361</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622361</guid>
		<description>Obviously! The common hamburger cow has group mourning sessions in which several cow will moan for hours when finally seperated from their offspring. Having watched it, it is enough to make one realise that even these docile herd mammals grieve, and experience feelings akin to ours. I have watched humpback whale cows grieve over a dead calf killed by orcas. It&#039;s enough to drive one to the salad bar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously! The common hamburger cow has group mourning sessions in which several cow will moan for hours when finally seperated from their offspring. Having watched it, it is enough to make one realise that even these docile herd mammals grieve, and experience feelings akin to ours. I have watched humpback whale cows grieve over a dead calf killed by orcas. It&#8217;s enough to drive one to the salad bar.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622362</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622362</guid>
		<description>emotion and speech are a few of the last holdouts of the quasi-biblical idea that man is unique. many people (&quot;scientists&quot; included) dismiss all perception of higher thinking/emotions from animals as a result of humans&#039; desire to anthropomorphize, but the real issue is that humans are governed by the same simplistic drives as other animals. It is denial of our baser instincts that creates this rejection of animal intelligence.

Alex, the famous African Grey parrot, could clearly understand words and use them to synthesize new expressions that had not been taught to him, yet researchers clamored whenever it was suggested that he used &#039;language.&#039; Likewise, when he acted in a way that could best be described as &#039;jealousy,&#039; researchers called it &#039;a dominance behavior&#039; rather than an emotion. But how can we describe jealousy in humans, other than a dominance behavior??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>emotion and speech are a few of the last holdouts of the quasi-biblical idea that man is unique. many people (&#8220;scientists&#8221; included) dismiss all perception of higher thinking/emotions from animals as a result of humans&#8217; desire to anthropomorphize, but the real issue is that humans are governed by the same simplistic drives as other animals. It is denial of our baser instincts that creates this rejection of animal intelligence.</p>
<p>Alex, the famous African Grey parrot, could clearly understand words and use them to synthesize new expressions that had not been taught to him, yet researchers clamored whenever it was suggested that he used &#8216;language.&#8217; Likewise, when he acted in a way that could best be described as &#8216;jealousy,&#8217; researchers called it &#8216;a dominance behavior&#8217; rather than an emotion. But how can we describe jealousy in humans, other than a dominance behavior??</p>
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		<title>By: WalterBillington</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622369</link>
		<dc:creator>WalterBillington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622369</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a neat test:  can your children detect or perceive emotions in animals?  If so, wouldn&#039;t you agree animals have emotions?

Defining emotion (ha!) - all animals react with fear once they know that being hit with a stick hurts like someone threw a stack of bibbles at you.  Fear is an emotion?  It seems a fairly deep one in the human persona.

I think we&#039;ve all spent too long agreeing that we&#039;re incredibly smart, when our own failure to prevent war / famine / disease seems to point out the blindingly obvious:  we&#039;re not.  We&#039;re a little bit smarter and better equipped (read usefully differentiated), but we&#039;re not mega-brainos.

My dog is definitely smarter than some of these commenters, that&#039;s for sure.  And my cat could probably manipulate their emotions better than they could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a neat test:  can your children detect or perceive emotions in animals?  If so, wouldn&#8217;t you agree animals have emotions?</p>
<p>Defining emotion (ha!) &#8211; all animals react with fear once they know that being hit with a stick hurts like someone threw a stack of bibbles at you.  Fear is an emotion?  It seems a fairly deep one in the human persona.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve all spent too long agreeing that we&#8217;re incredibly smart, when our own failure to prevent war / famine / disease seems to point out the blindingly obvious:  we&#8217;re not.  We&#8217;re a little bit smarter and better equipped (read usefully differentiated), but we&#8217;re not mega-brainos.</p>
<p>My dog is definitely smarter than some of these commenters, that&#8217;s for sure.  And my cat could probably manipulate their emotions better than they could.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Jones</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622627</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622627</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m reminded of &quot;The Pope of The Chimps&quot;, an excellent short story by one of my favorite writers, Robert Silverberg.

&quot;... a Nebula Award nominee about a science experiment and a group of fifth-generation sign language chimps. Their intelligence seems almost human at times, but they don&#039;t quite understand what humans are all about. They think of humans as immortal gods, until one day a scientist on the project contracts terminal cancer. Now the other scientists must tell the chimps the truth, with unforeseen consequences...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reminded of &#8220;The Pope of The Chimps&#8221;, an excellent short story by one of my favorite writers, Robert Silverberg.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; a Nebula Award nominee about a science experiment and a group of fifth-generation sign language chimps. Their intelligence seems almost human at times, but they don&#8217;t quite understand what humans are all about. They think of humans as immortal gods, until one day a scientist on the project contracts terminal cancer. Now the other scientists must tell the chimps the truth, with unforeseen consequences&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: stanleyk</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622376</link>
		<dc:creator>stanleyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622376</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m firmly in the &quot;we&#039;re probably not all that different from other animals&quot; camp. But your test (&quot;can your children detect or perceive emotions in animals?&quot;) doesn&#039;t work. My child can perceive emotions in stuffed toys. That does not tell you that the toy is experiencing that emotion. It tells you that we&#039;re very sensitive to prototypical affective cues, and good at projecting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m firmly in the &#8220;we&#8217;re probably not all that different from other animals&#8221; camp. But your test (&#8220;can your children detect or perceive emotions in animals?&#8221;) doesn&#8217;t work. My child can perceive emotions in stuffed toys. That does not tell you that the toy is experiencing that emotion. It tells you that we&#8217;re very sensitive to prototypical affective cues, and good at projecting.</p>
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		<title>By: WalterBillington</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622380</link>
		<dc:creator>WalterBillington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622380</guid>
		<description>Smart.  But given that our responses to other people are simply responses to our perception of their emotions, things get murky.

Alright - so add the question to your child &quot;is it make believe?&quot;  They&#039;ll defend their loved dog&#039;s emotions much more fervently than their teddy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smart.  But given that our responses to other people are simply responses to our perception of their emotions, things get murky.</p>
<p>Alright &#8211; so add the question to your child &#8220;is it make believe?&#8221;  They&#8217;ll defend their loved dog&#8217;s emotions much more fervently than their teddy.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622384</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622384</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with junior, though I couldn&#039;t have said it as funnily. 

Although I am liable to believe chimps can feel complex emotions, I hardly think this photograph is rock solid evidence of anything, except a bunch of chimps looking at some humans hauling off a dead chimp.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with junior, though I couldn&#8217;t have said it as funnily. </p>
<p>Although I am liable to believe chimps can feel complex emotions, I hardly think this photograph is rock solid evidence of anything, except a bunch of chimps looking at some humans hauling off a dead chimp.</p>
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		<title>By: PrairieChicken</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622387</link>
		<dc:creator>PrairieChicken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622387</guid>
		<description>If we&#039;re all talking about showing intense sorrow at the loss of a loved one then yes, animals are capable of grief.
Elephants are another example of an animal that expresses interest the death of their own. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we&#8217;re all talking about showing intense sorrow at the loss of a loved one then yes, animals are capable of grief.<br />
Elephants are another example of an animal that expresses interest the death of their own. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622388</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622388</guid>
		<description>Is that woman using Dorothy as a ventriloquists doll? 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that woman using Dorothy as a ventriloquists doll? </p>
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		<title>By: Eric Ragle</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622390</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Ragle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622390</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a romantic thought and I&#039;d like to believe it. The picture is very touching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a romantic thought and I&#8217;d like to believe it. The picture is very touching.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-628534</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-628534</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised so many people would not know that Grief is an animal emotion.  Several animals mate for life.  When there&#039;s love like that, of course there will be grief of a loss.  My dog &quot;Jessie&quot; who unfortunately is not as smart as a chimp is very very close to me.  I&#039;ve been retired for most of her life so I spend more time with her than I do anyone.  But anyway, I took a trip and left her with my wife at home.  She had severe anxiety attack and lost patches of fur.  Of course she recovered when I got back.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised so many people would not know that Grief is an animal emotion.  Several animals mate for life.  When there&#8217;s love like that, of course there will be grief of a loss.  My dog &#8220;Jessie&#8221; who unfortunately is not as smart as a chimp is very very close to me.  I&#8217;ve been retired for most of her life so I spend more time with her than I do anyone.  But anyway, I took a trip and left her with my wife at home.  She had severe anxiety attack and lost patches of fur.  Of course she recovered when I got back.  </p>
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		<title>By: north</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622391</link>
		<dc:creator>north</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622391</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why people are so resistive to this idea. 
Emotions are essentially a biochemical process. Why is it so surprising that other animals evolved the same processes, especially ones that are so closely related to humans?
Jane Goodall certainly weighed in on the subject...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why people are so resistive to this idea.<br />
Emotions are essentially a biochemical process. Why is it so surprising that other animals evolved the same processes, especially ones that are so closely related to humans?<br />
Jane Goodall certainly weighed in on the subject&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622392</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622392</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard repeatedly that elephants grieve, standing by dead elephants and making moaning noises and then each touching the corpse in succession.

Here&#039;s a specific account:
http://www.wildwatch.com/sightings/an-elephants-funeral

And a general article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399615/Elephants-grieve-lost-relatives.html

Magpies apparently  conduct similar &quot;funerals&quot; :
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1221754/Magpies-grieve-dead-turn-funerals.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard repeatedly that elephants grieve, standing by dead elephants and making moaning noises and then each touching the corpse in succession.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a specific account:<br />
<a href="http://www.wildwatch.com/sightings/an-elephants-funeral" rel="nofollow">http://www.wildwatch.com/sightings/an-elephants-funeral</a></p>
<p>And a general article:<br />
<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399615/Elephants-grieve-lost-relatives.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399615/Elephants-grieve-lost-relatives.html</a></p>
<p>Magpies apparently  conduct similar &#8220;funerals&#8221; :<br />
<a href="http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1221754/Magpies-grieve-dead-turn-funerals.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1221754/Magpies-grieve-dead-turn-funerals.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kimrod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622400</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622400</guid>
		<description>You can go on all day about &quot;anthropomorphising.&quot; I don&#039;t believe this is the case, and I refuse to think along those lines. Is it because we don&#039;t see chimp tears?

This picture is very tender and poignant. After spending a good part of 40 years with her fellow chimps, I&#039;m sure there is curiosity on their part, but also sadness, too. 

We are foolish if we think animals don&#039;t have emotions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can go on all day about &#8220;anthropomorphising.&#8221; I don&#8217;t believe this is the case, and I refuse to think along those lines. Is it because we don&#8217;t see chimp tears?</p>
<p>This picture is very tender and poignant. After spending a good part of 40 years with her fellow chimps, I&#8217;m sure there is curiosity on their part, but also sadness, too. </p>
<p>We are foolish if we think animals don&#8217;t have emotions.</p>
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		<title>By: anthropomorphictoast</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622656</link>
		<dc:creator>anthropomorphictoast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622656</guid>
		<description>Since chimps have a fairly high level of intelligence and are capable of remembering things, I think it&#039;s a safe bet that they are capable of feeling emotion. Hell, I had a PARROT that got depressed and wouldn&#039;t leave me alone when I got deathly ill one time. Another good example of this would be elephants...they periodically visit a &#039;graveyard&#039; and caress the remains of their dead heard-mates. Pictorial evidence or no, you can&#039;t tell me that they don&#039;t feel emotions. :&#124;      </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since chimps have a fairly high level of intelligence and are capable of remembering things, I think it&#8217;s a safe bet that they are capable of feeling emotion. Hell, I had a PARROT that got depressed and wouldn&#8217;t leave me alone when I got deathly ill one time. Another good example of this would be elephants&#8230;they periodically visit a &#8216;graveyard&#8217; and caress the remains of their dead heard-mates. Pictorial evidence or no, you can&#8217;t tell me that they don&#8217;t feel emotions. :|      </p>
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		<title>By: danlalan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622402</link>
		<dc:creator>danlalan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622402</guid>
		<description>It is clear that in humans, emotions are generated by neurotransmitter releases in the limbic system, and the behavioral expression of emotion is then modified by the neocortex. Rather than give citations, just google limbic system and read if you doubt. All mammals have both of these brain structures, and they function much the same as they do in humans with somewhat less complexity of expression. 

Chimps are very close to us both in evolutionary and morphological terms. They are also in the very exclusive club of animals that can pass the mirror test of self recognition that includes the great apes, some cetaceans, a couple of birds, elephants and us. If you ever get the chance to work with chimps, it is uncannily like working with human children that can&#039;t speak (and that can rip your arm off). 

The differences are in degree, not in kind. Of course they have emotions.

@walterbillington: If you draw faces on balloons, children can detect or perceive emotion. It doesn&#039;t mean balloons have emotion. It does say we are wired to be able to perceive emotions tho....



  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is clear that in humans, emotions are generated by neurotransmitter releases in the limbic system, and the behavioral expression of emotion is then modified by the neocortex. Rather than give citations, just google limbic system and read if you doubt. All mammals have both of these brain structures, and they function much the same as they do in humans with somewhat less complexity of expression. </p>
<p>Chimps are very close to us both in evolutionary and morphological terms. They are also in the very exclusive club of animals that can pass the mirror test of self recognition that includes the great apes, some cetaceans, a couple of birds, elephants and us. If you ever get the chance to work with chimps, it is uncannily like working with human children that can&#8217;t speak (and that can rip your arm off). </p>
<p>The differences are in degree, not in kind. Of course they have emotions.</p>
<p>@walterbillington: If you draw faces on balloons, children can detect or perceive emotion. It doesn&#8217;t mean balloons have emotion. It does say we are wired to be able to perceive emotions tho&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622405</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622405</guid>
		<description>Parsimony would suggest that animals have emotions, including grief.  We know that we grieve.  In the absence of evidence otherwise, the assumption must be that animals also grieve.  The emphasis on de-anthropomorphizing animals was an interesting and useful logical error (which can be traced to DesCartes, interestingly enough, so that he could study them without Church censure).  Even the Harlow&#039;s recognized emotion in animals during their 1960&#039;s experiments.  We should address emotion in animals with cautious and careful experimental approaches.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parsimony would suggest that animals have emotions, including grief.  We know that we grieve.  In the absence of evidence otherwise, the assumption must be that animals also grieve.  The emphasis on de-anthropomorphizing animals was an interesting and useful logical error (which can be traced to DesCartes, interestingly enough, so that he could study them without Church censure).  Even the Harlow&#8217;s recognized emotion in animals during their 1960&#8242;s experiments.  We should address emotion in animals with cautious and careful experimental approaches.  </p>
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		<title>By: Karl Jones</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622669</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622669</guid>
		<description>I used to have a cat, Presto -- gone these many years, yet I still miss him -- who was deeply sensitive to my emotions.  

I remember weeping inconsolably one night about a love affair that ended against my wishes. Presto got upset: he cried and meowed, almost in anger; paced around my feet; ran out of the room, ran back.  Finally, he bit me on the toe --  good and hard, not a love nip but something more ferocious. 

Come to think of it, he did much the same thing earlier in the love affair, one time when my beloved was in my arms, just after a shower.  Bit me on the toe, the little scamp.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to have a cat, Presto &#8212; gone these many years, yet I still miss him &#8212; who was deeply sensitive to my emotions.  </p>
<p>I remember weeping inconsolably one night about a love affair that ended against my wishes. Presto got upset: he cried and meowed, almost in anger; paced around my feet; ran out of the room, ran back.  Finally, he bit me on the toe &#8212;  good and hard, not a love nip but something more ferocious. </p>
<p>Come to think of it, he did much the same thing earlier in the love affair, one time when my beloved was in my arms, just after a shower.  Bit me on the toe, the little scamp.</p>
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		<title>By: SamSam</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622421</link>
		<dc:creator>SamSam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622421</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Here&#039;s a neat test: can your children detect or perceive emotions in animals? If so, wouldn&#039;t you agree animals have emotions?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Errrm, why? Kids say things like &quot;that tree looks really sad.&quot; That doesn&#039;t mean that the tree is actually sad. It just means that we humans are incredibly good and reading emotions, so much that we tend to over-read them even when they aren&#039;t there.

I certainly believe that chimps have emotions, attachment and probably grief, although of course this photo has got absolutely zero ziltch evidence for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Here&#8217;s a neat test: can your children detect or perceive emotions in animals? If so, wouldn&#8217;t you agree animals have emotions?</p></blockquote>
<p>Errrm, why? Kids say things like &#8220;that tree looks really sad.&#8221; That doesn&#8217;t mean that the tree is actually sad. It just means that we humans are incredibly good and reading emotions, so much that we tend to over-read them even when they aren&#8217;t there.</p>
<p>I certainly believe that chimps have emotions, attachment and probably grief, although of course this photo has got absolutely zero ziltch evidence for that.</p>
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		<title>By: searconflex</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622166</link>
		<dc:creator>searconflex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622166</guid>
		<description>Dorothy sure owed a lot of bananas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dorothy sure owed a lot of bananas.</p>
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		<title>By: Quintus</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622422</link>
		<dc:creator>Quintus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622422</guid>
		<description>Do people other myself have emotions?  Or do I project my experience of having feeling onto others? Sure, other people may claim to have emotions, but they may simply be lying to prey upon my emotions?

C&#039;mon.  Look at the chimps&#039; faces.  They&#039;re grieving.  If you have to deny it to make yourself feel special and different from them, all you have done has shown the paucity of your own capacity for feelings. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do people other myself have emotions?  Or do I project my experience of having feeling onto others? Sure, other people may claim to have emotions, but they may simply be lying to prey upon my emotions?</p>
<p>C&#8217;mon.  Look at the chimps&#8217; faces.  They&#8217;re grieving.  If you have to deny it to make yourself feel special and different from them, all you have done has shown the paucity of your own capacity for feelings. </p>
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		<title>By: arborman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622168</link>
		<dc:creator>arborman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622168</guid>
		<description>I too would like to be pushed past my mourners in a wheelbarrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too would like to be pushed past my mourners in a wheelbarrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Keller</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622424</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622424</guid>
		<description>Koko, the American sign language speaking gorilla, told her keeper that she was sad when her cat, All Ball was killed by a car. I think that emotions serve as an adaptive strategy in social animals and are the behavioural manifestation of bonding. A group of individuals that are more bonded to one another, a troop of chimps, for example, will be more successful at facing predators than say, a pond of turtles that happen to live in the same area. It seems to be a mammal thing.

We probably don&#039;t have the innate ability to recognize how wild mammals mainfest their emotions. So, we don&#039;t see most mammals as having recognizable emotions. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Ball</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koko, the American sign language speaking gorilla, told her keeper that she was sad when her cat, All Ball was killed by a car. I think that emotions serve as an adaptive strategy in social animals and are the behavioural manifestation of bonding. A group of individuals that are more bonded to one another, a troop of chimps, for example, will be more successful at facing predators than say, a pond of turtles that happen to live in the same area. It seems to be a mammal thing.</p>
<p>We probably don&#8217;t have the innate ability to recognize how wild mammals mainfest their emotions. So, we don&#8217;t see most mammals as having recognizable emotions.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Ball" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Ball</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622427</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622427</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve worked for National Geographic and I want to know what is behind the camera?  A shot like this can be set up in a way that is very close to staged.

--Philip H.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve worked for National Geographic and I want to know what is behind the camera?  A shot like this can be set up in a way that is very close to staged.</p>
<p>&#8211;Philip H.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Rizos</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/27/do-chimps-grieve.html#comment-622174</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Rizos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-622174</guid>
		<description>I have no idea why that made me laugh so hard, but I still can&#039;t seem to stop giggling. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea why that made me laugh so hard, but I still can&#8217;t seem to stop giggling. </p>
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