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	<title>Comments on: Witches on&#160;drugs</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Mariposaland</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-628492</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariposaland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-628492</guid>
		<description>Yeah, ignorance is bliss...

Equating actual witches with Satan and devil worship is like people who listen to heavy metal and wear an upside down pentagram think they are Satan worshipers.

Witchcraft and wicca are not the same thing. Wicca is an Oprah-esque New Age version of paganism. Though we no longer practise animal sacrifice or the like, witchcraft is still an earth-worship, polytheistic faith and has so Satan figure. That&#039;s my final word on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, ignorance is bliss&#8230;</p>
<p>Equating actual witches with Satan and devil worship is like people who listen to heavy metal and wear an upside down pentagram think they are Satan worshipers.</p>
<p>Witchcraft and wicca are not the same thing. Wicca is an Oprah-esque New Age version of paganism. Though we no longer practise animal sacrifice or the like, witchcraft is still an earth-worship, polytheistic faith and has so Satan figure. That&#8217;s my final word on this.</p>
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		<title>By: 2k</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-624421</link>
		<dc:creator>2k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-624421</guid>
		<description>ahhh. That snarky comment I posted and almost immediately thought better of.

Mushrooms have had an impact on our evolution.
Many things have.
The drugs, in this case; the mushrooms, can, I agree, only really be considered facilitators.
It&#039;s the mind on the drugs that is interesting. Not the drugs on the mind.

Although they are fairly interesting in their own right; but that&#039;s beside the point.
Which was something about shoes apparently...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ahhh. That snarky comment I posted and almost immediately thought better of.</p>
<p>Mushrooms have had an impact on our evolution.<br />
Many things have.<br />
The drugs, in this case; the mushrooms, can, I agree, only really be considered facilitators.<br />
It&#8217;s the mind on the drugs that is interesting. Not the drugs on the mind.</p>
<p>Although they are fairly interesting in their own right; but that&#8217;s beside the point.<br />
Which was something about shoes apparently&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: godfathersoul</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623412</link>
		<dc:creator>godfathersoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623412</guid>
		<description>duly added to Amazon wish list. thanks!

one day maybe i&#039;ll get around to writing my &quot;psychedelics and fine art&quot; book... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>duly added to Amazon wish list. thanks!</p>
<p>one day maybe i&#8217;ll get around to writing my &#8220;psychedelics and fine art&#8221; book&#8230; </p>
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		<title>By: Gendun</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-626997</link>
		<dc:creator>Gendun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-626997</guid>
		<description>I have an anti-drug agenda because I&#039;m holding people to basic standards of evidence? 

I happen to be a big fan of the truth, and in my view the more truth we can tell about our history, the better off everyone will be. When myths are disseminated as fact, this not only corrupts our sense of our own history, but it undermines the position of the entheogenic subculture by wedding it to fallacious narratives. That impedes the ability of the larger culture to take these substances seriously, and I think that&#039;s really too bad. 

The 2006 Johns Hopkins psilocybin and mystical experience study offered strong evidence that certain plant- or fungus-based entheogens, under certain circumstances and for some people, may produce experiences that are profoundly valued by those people, and that have a measurable, lasting, positive effect. In my view, this kind of information helps people who are interested in these substances, while pseudo-histories of Amanita muscaria use in early Christianity hurt these people. They undermine the credibility of the entire subculture, and unfortunately many of the loudest mouths in the psychedelics world have the greatest disregard for truth. Terence McKenna, may he rest in peace, is a great example. He was a world class storyteller, but all that &quot;Food of the Gods&quot; stuff about mushrooms and the origins of consciousness is just nonsense. I&#039;m not saying that out of prejudice, I&#039;m saying that because I&#039;ve carefully looked at his arguments and his evidence, and they&#039;re extremely weak. 

The fact that a theory is interesting, attractive, or even plausible is not in itself evidence for its truth. It is only the starting point -- then the work begins of evaluating it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an anti-drug agenda because I&#8217;m holding people to basic standards of evidence? </p>
<p>I happen to be a big fan of the truth, and in my view the more truth we can tell about our history, the better off everyone will be. When myths are disseminated as fact, this not only corrupts our sense of our own history, but it undermines the position of the entheogenic subculture by wedding it to fallacious narratives. That impedes the ability of the larger culture to take these substances seriously, and I think that&#8217;s really too bad. </p>
<p>The 2006 Johns Hopkins psilocybin and mystical experience study offered strong evidence that certain plant- or fungus-based entheogens, under certain circumstances and for some people, may produce experiences that are profoundly valued by those people, and that have a measurable, lasting, positive effect. In my view, this kind of information helps people who are interested in these substances, while pseudo-histories of Amanita muscaria use in early Christianity hurt these people. They undermine the credibility of the entire subculture, and unfortunately many of the loudest mouths in the psychedelics world have the greatest disregard for truth. Terence McKenna, may he rest in peace, is a great example. He was a world class storyteller, but all that &#8220;Food of the Gods&#8221; stuff about mushrooms and the origins of consciousness is just nonsense. I&#8217;m not saying that out of prejudice, I&#8217;m saying that because I&#8217;ve carefully looked at his arguments and his evidence, and they&#8217;re extremely weak. </p>
<p>The fact that a theory is interesting, attractive, or even plausible is not in itself evidence for its truth. It is only the starting point &#8212; then the work begins of evaluating it. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623419</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623419</guid>
		<description>This topic is covered lightly in the amazing, fantastic &quot;Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches,&quot; which I highly recommend to anyone looking for a larger cultural context not only of the use of psychedelics by &quot;witches,&quot; and their subsequent persecution, but also other odd cultural phenomena that appear crazy on the surface but have semi-logical roots -- cargo cults, potlatch ceremonies, and the religious interdiction of the consumption of the eponymous ungulates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This topic is covered lightly in the amazing, fantastic &#8220;Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches,&#8221; which I highly recommend to anyone looking for a larger cultural context not only of the use of psychedelics by &#8220;witches,&#8221; and their subsequent persecution, but also other odd cultural phenomena that appear crazy on the surface but have semi-logical roots &#8212; cargo cults, potlatch ceremonies, and the religious interdiction of the consumption of the eponymous ungulates.</p>
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		<title>By: John Napsterista</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-624190</link>
		<dc:creator>John Napsterista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-624190</guid>
		<description>RE:  Persecution of witches in medieval (til ca. 1500) or later times; and the existence of primary sources describing such.  In &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1344/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks&quot;&gt;this column&lt;/a&gt; , Cecil Adams discusses Michael J. Harner&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Role of Hallucinogenic Plants in European Witchcraft in Hallucinogens and Shamanism&lt;/i&gt; (1973).  That book apparently cites primary sources from medieval times, and has these wonderful quotes:  

&lt;blockquote&gt;From a witchcraft investigation in 1324: &quot;In rifleing the closet of the ladie, they found a Pipe of oyntment, wherewith she greased a staffe, upon the which she ambled and galloped through thick and thin.&quot; Also this from around 1470: &quot;But the vulgar believe, and the witches confess, that on certain days or nights they anoint a staff and ride on it to the appointed place or anoint themselves under the arms and in other hairy places.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Anyhow, for what it&#039;s worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE:  Persecution of witches in medieval (til ca. 1500) or later times; and the existence of primary sources describing such.  In <a href="http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1344/whats-the-deal-with-witches-and-broomsticks">this column</a> , Cecil Adams discusses Michael J. Harner&#8217;s <i>The Role of Hallucinogenic Plants in European Witchcraft in Hallucinogens and Shamanism</i> (1973).  That book apparently cites primary sources from medieval times, and has these wonderful quotes:  </p>
<blockquote><p>From a witchcraft investigation in 1324: &#8220;In rifleing the closet of the ladie, they found a Pipe of oyntment, wherewith she greased a staffe, upon the which she ambled and galloped through thick and thin.&#8221; Also this from around 1470: &#8220;But the vulgar believe, and the witches confess, that on certain days or nights they anoint a staff and ride on it to the appointed place or anoint themselves under the arms and in other hairy places.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Anyhow, for what it&#8217;s worth.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623427</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623427</guid>
		<description>Oooh - flying ointment - a (very, very, very) carefully prepared mixture of sublethal doses of extremely deadly herbal poisons, usually henbane, aconite and deadly nightshade, with a few others sprinkled in. 

Apparently this kind of thing has been for psychedelic purposes done since Greek times. Not to be tried at home due to extreme likelihood of death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh &#8211; flying ointment &#8211; a (very, very, very) carefully prepared mixture of sublethal doses of extremely deadly herbal poisons, usually henbane, aconite and deadly nightshade, with a few others sprinkled in. </p>
<p>Apparently this kind of thing has been for psychedelic purposes done since Greek times. Not to be tried at home due to extreme likelihood of death.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-624456</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-624456</guid>
		<description>http://al-jazerra.blogspot.com/2007/09/testimoniales-tiempos-de-cambio-imgenes.html
A los que lean castellano esto es algo sobre &quot;Los demonios de luddum&quot; de a. Hussley, donde se habla de drogas, brujeria, etc y de otros textos. Un gran saludo 
alejandro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://al-jazerra.blogspot.com/2007/09/testimoniales-tiempos-de-cambio-imgenes.html" rel="nofollow">http://al-jazerra.blogspot.com/2007/09/testimoniales-tiempos-de-cambio-imgenes.html</a><br />
A los que lean castellano esto es algo sobre &#8220;Los demonios de luddum&#8221; de a. Hussley, donde se habla de drogas, brujeria, etc y de otros textos. Un gran saludo<br />
alejandro.</p>
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		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-628552</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-628552</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure the ancient polythiestic earth-worshipping pagans didn&#039;t pay homage to the devil, but nor did they refer to themselves as &quot;Witches.&quot;

The concept of a &quot;witch&quot; as we know it is an invention of medieval Christians who wanted a good excuse for killing people who had different belief systems. The fact that some have chosen to embrace this epithet in more recent years doesn&#039;t change its original connotations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure the ancient polythiestic earth-worshipping pagans didn&#8217;t pay homage to the devil, but nor did they refer to themselves as &#8220;Witches.&#8221;</p>
<p>The concept of a &#8220;witch&#8221; as we know it is an invention of medieval Christians who wanted a good excuse for killing people who had different belief systems. The fact that some have chosen to embrace this epithet in more recent years doesn&#8217;t change its original connotations.</p>
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		<title>By: V</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623437</link>
		<dc:creator>V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623437</guid>
		<description>as mentioned yesterday on cracked.com:

&quot;Some historians say the practitioners of witchcraft were using hallucinogenic plants like mandrake and belladonna to perform their &quot;magic,&quot; and even believe they were flying. Such drugs work best when applied to the thin skin of mucus membranes... like the labia. So the story goes the &quot;witches&quot; would apply their &quot;magic potion&quot; to their broom sticks and &quot;fly.&quot;

http://www.cracked.com/article/177_6-popular-monsters-myths-that-prove-humanity-doomed/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as mentioned yesterday on cracked.com:</p>
<p>&#8220;Some historians say the practitioners of witchcraft were using hallucinogenic plants like mandrake and belladonna to perform their &#8220;magic,&#8221; and even believe they were flying. Such drugs work best when applied to the thin skin of mucus membranes&#8230; like the labia. So the story goes the &#8220;witches&#8221; would apply their &#8220;magic potion&#8221; to their broom sticks and &#8220;fly.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cracked.com/article/177_6-popular-monsters-myths-that-prove-humanity-doomed/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cracked.com/article/177_6-popular-monsters-myths-that-prove-humanity-doomed/</a></p>
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		<title>By: LYNDON</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623699</link>
		<dc:creator>LYNDON</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623699</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an analagous argument that Salem happened because everyone was stoned on bad rye flour.

But, as above, it can be adequately explained by perfectly ordinary mass hysteria, enforced confessions and perversion of justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an analagous argument that Salem happened because everyone was stoned on bad rye flour.</p>
<p>But, as above, it can be adequately explained by perfectly ordinary mass hysteria, enforced confessions and perversion of justice.</p>
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		<title>By: leavesofjoy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623452</link>
		<dc:creator>leavesofjoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623452</guid>
		<description>This looks like a great book! Another wonderful reference is the now out-of-print &quot;How do Witches Fly? A Practical Approach to Nocturnal Flight&quot;, by Alexander Kuklin. 

I&#039;ve personally made a full-on traditional flying ointment following that research for the last several Samhain seasons. I agree that it is potentially very toxic, and not to try casually, but it is also a very wild ride if undertaken with care and diligence.

I wrote my own couple of posts about this on my blog, talking about shamanic flight from both the European witches&#039; perspective and similar Eastern practices that led, oddly enough, to the legendary flying carpet mythos.

Here&#039;s the Witches&#039; post:
http://al-kemi.com/alchemy/2009/10/flight-witches-on-brooms/

And the Eastern perspective:
http://al-kemi.com/alchemy/2009/10/flight-magic-carpets-kung-fu-leaps/

-leavesofjoy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks like a great book! Another wonderful reference is the now out-of-print &#8220;How do Witches Fly? A Practical Approach to Nocturnal Flight&#8221;, by Alexander Kuklin. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve personally made a full-on traditional flying ointment following that research for the last several Samhain seasons. I agree that it is potentially very toxic, and not to try casually, but it is also a very wild ride if undertaken with care and diligence.</p>
<p>I wrote my own couple of posts about this on my blog, talking about shamanic flight from both the European witches&#8217; perspective and similar Eastern practices that led, oddly enough, to the legendary flying carpet mythos.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the Witches&#8217; post:<br />
<a href="http://al-kemi.com/alchemy/2009/10/flight-witches-on-brooms/" rel="nofollow">http://al-kemi.com/alchemy/2009/10/flight-witches-on-brooms/</a></p>
<p>And the Eastern perspective:<br />
<a href="http://al-kemi.com/alchemy/2009/10/flight-magic-carpets-kung-fu-leaps/" rel="nofollow">http://al-kemi.com/alchemy/2009/10/flight-magic-carpets-kung-fu-leaps/</a></p>
<p>-leavesofjoy</p>
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		<title>By: debg</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623456</link>
		<dc:creator>debg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623456</guid>
		<description>Umm, most of these people are not medieval--they&#039;re early modern or modern. Medieval historians (of which I am one) usually say the period runs from 500 to 1500. Most witch hunts took place after the Reformations of the early 16th cen. Medieval people tried heretics, not witches. It&#039;s the only inaccuracy in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm, most of these people are not medieval&#8211;they&#8217;re early modern or modern. Medieval historians (of which I am one) usually say the period runs from 500 to 1500. Most witch hunts took place after the Reformations of the early 16th cen. Medieval people tried heretics, not witches. It&#8217;s the only inaccuracy in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.</p>
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		<title>By: Halloween Jack</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-624736</link>
		<dc:creator>Halloween Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-624736</guid>
		<description>Not surprising that there are, in fact, &lt;i&gt;several&lt;/i&gt; places where you can get a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?q=%22witches+gone+wild%22&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8&amp;aq=t&amp;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&amp;client=firefox-a&quot;&gt;&quot;Witches Gone Wild&quot;&lt;/a&gt; T-shirt, hoodie, etc. Blessed be capitalism!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not surprising that there are, in fact, <i>several</i> places where you can get a <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22witches+gone+wild%22&#038;ie=utf-8&#038;oe=utf-8&#038;aq=t&#038;rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&#038;client=firefox-a">&#8220;Witches Gone Wild&#8221;</a> T-shirt, hoodie, etc. Blessed be capitalism!</p>
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		<title>By: Mariposaland</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-627040</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariposaland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-627040</guid>
		<description>Nice to see yet more perpetuating of the witchcraft = devil worship theme going around.  For the record, there is no devil in the Old Religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see yet more perpetuating of the witchcraft = devil worship theme going around.  For the record, there is no devil in the Old Religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623457</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623457</guid>
		<description>o/
&lt;i&gt;Belladonna and aconite - Inkubbus Sukkubus&lt;/i&gt;

Belladonna and aconite
Give to me the gift of flight
Take me up, ever on in the night
In a dream, across the sky
A hundred-million miles high
Take me ever onwards in the night

Dark sisters join my night flight
See how far you can climb
Holtâ€™s with us on this bright night
Ride with him â€˜cross the sky

As a screaming horde
We cut the scape
The Devilâ€™s Apple exacerbates
At the sabbat on a demon steed I ride
Across the astral plane we race
The universe my fingers trace
And I am lost forever in my mind

Hemlock, Henbane, Aconite, Belladonna,
Opium, Thornapple, Cinquefoil, Mandragora

o/ </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>o/<br />
<i>Belladonna and aconite &#8211; Inkubbus Sukkubus</i></p>
<p>Belladonna and aconite<br />
Give to me the gift of flight<br />
Take me up, ever on in the night<br />
In a dream, across the sky<br />
A hundred-million miles high<br />
Take me ever onwards in the night</p>
<p>Dark sisters join my night flight<br />
See how far you can climb<br />
Holtâ€™s with us on this bright night<br />
Ride with him â€˜cross the sky</p>
<p>As a screaming horde<br />
We cut the scape<br />
The Devilâ€™s Apple exacerbates<br />
At the sabbat on a demon steed I ride<br />
Across the astral plane we race<br />
The universe my fingers trace<br />
And I am lost forever in my mind</p>
<p>Hemlock, Henbane, Aconite, Belladonna,<br />
Opium, Thornapple, Cinquefoil, Mandragora</p>
<p>o/ </p>
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		<title>By: singingdragon</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-627057</link>
		<dc:creator>singingdragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-627057</guid>
		<description>Nice to see yet more perpetuating of the medieval witchcraft = modern wiccan religion myth going around.  For the record, there is no Old in the Old Religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see yet more perpetuating of the medieval witchcraft = modern wiccan religion myth going around.  For the record, there is no Old in the Old Religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Gendun</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-626546</link>
		<dc:creator>Gendun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-626546</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your input, Kim. Leaving aside the question of my personal resume, which I assure you is not an issue, my point exactly is that one cannot base historiography or archaeology on these kinds of personal prejudices, or your account of history will be greatly distorted. 

The whole purpose of scientific and historical research methods in these fields is that they provide tools by which a hypothesis can be methodically tested such that our personal biases don&#039;t excessively cloud our judgment. One can start with any belief that gets you out of bed in the morning, but at the end of the day reason and evidence are the arbiters. 

If you look at guys like R. Gordon Wasson, who was actually one of the most responsible scholars in this field, it&#039;s obvious that he started out with the conviction that psychoactive mushroom use was instrumental in the creation of early religion. He looked for decades for evidence for his theory, and surprise! he found some, buried amidst the murk and mists of fragmentary history. This is not my account of what happened - he is very clear about this throughout his writings. 

If you actually read any of these books -- have you, Kim? -- you can see how this distorts their methods. Both &quot;Road to Eleusis&quot; and &quot;Soma&quot; are deeply colored by all the errors I&#039;m describing, and any freshman archaeology major should know better. 

As I said, Wasson is actually pretty good as far as these guys go. When you get to John Allegro or Clark Heinrich, all you get is ridiculous stories mascaraing as history. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your input, Kim. Leaving aside the question of my personal resume, which I assure you is not an issue, my point exactly is that one cannot base historiography or archaeology on these kinds of personal prejudices, or your account of history will be greatly distorted. </p>
<p>The whole purpose of scientific and historical research methods in these fields is that they provide tools by which a hypothesis can be methodically tested such that our personal biases don&#8217;t excessively cloud our judgment. One can start with any belief that gets you out of bed in the morning, but at the end of the day reason and evidence are the arbiters. </p>
<p>If you look at guys like R. Gordon Wasson, who was actually one of the most responsible scholars in this field, it&#8217;s obvious that he started out with the conviction that psychoactive mushroom use was instrumental in the creation of early religion. He looked for decades for evidence for his theory, and surprise! he found some, buried amidst the murk and mists of fragmentary history. This is not my account of what happened &#8211; he is very clear about this throughout his writings. </p>
<p>If you actually read any of these books &#8212; have you, Kim? &#8212; you can see how this distorts their methods. Both &#8220;Road to Eleusis&#8221; and &#8220;Soma&#8221; are deeply colored by all the errors I&#8217;m describing, and any freshman archaeology major should know better. </p>
<p>As I said, Wasson is actually pretty good as far as these guys go. When you get to John Allegro or Clark Heinrich, all you get is ridiculous stories mascaraing as history. </p>
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		<title>By: cubicblackpig</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623991</link>
		<dc:creator>cubicblackpig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623991</guid>
		<description>Only since the 50s, 2k. See Andy Letcher&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Shrooms&lt;/i&gt; for a comprehensive debunking of the claims for a longer history of psychedelics use. A brief review &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/shroom-a-cultural-history-of-the-magic-mushroom-by-andy-letcher-480821.html&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

Letcher make the same point as Gendun about that cover image. Sure, on the &lt;i&gt;copy&lt;/i&gt; they look like mushrooms. On the original they look like they could be arrow-heads or who knows what.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only since the 50s, 2k. See Andy Letcher&#8217;s <i>Shrooms</i> for a comprehensive debunking of the claims for a longer history of psychedelics use. A brief review <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/shroom-a-cultural-history-of-the-magic-mushroom-by-andy-letcher-480821.html">here</a>.</p>
<p>Letcher make the same point as Gendun about that cover image. Sure, on the <i>copy</i> they look like mushrooms. On the original they look like they could be arrow-heads or who knows what.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-626305</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-626305</guid>
		<description>I hear you about high standards, but why don&#039;t you start to experiment with yourself first before accusing other people of doing what you yourself have not done? If you have, in fact taken any psychogen, then perhaps you would see causality where you currently do not. Most likely the people that are searching for those links do so because of the hunch that people in history are experiencing what we, in the modern era, experience when we take entheogenic substances. If you are someone who has never had any of these experiences personally, then of course you would have no understanding of why people draw the correlations that they do. Perhaps you should pull away from academics just for a moment to gain some first hand knowledge of these substances, scientifically speaking, which is to say, take them one by one, keep a log, keep meticulous records, and then and only then, look at your personal data and compare it to what other people are theorizing about history. You might change some of your opinions and lower your ire at the passion which seems to irk you so.
Best of luck.
Kim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you about high standards, but why don&#8217;t you start to experiment with yourself first before accusing other people of doing what you yourself have not done? If you have, in fact taken any psychogen, then perhaps you would see causality where you currently do not. Most likely the people that are searching for those links do so because of the hunch that people in history are experiencing what we, in the modern era, experience when we take entheogenic substances. If you are someone who has never had any of these experiences personally, then of course you would have no understanding of why people draw the correlations that they do. Perhaps you should pull away from academics just for a moment to gain some first hand knowledge of these substances, scientifically speaking, which is to say, take them one by one, keep a log, keep meticulous records, and then and only then, look at your personal data and compare it to what other people are theorizing about history. You might change some of your opinions and lower your ire at the passion which seems to irk you so.<br />
Best of luck.<br />
Kim</p>
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		<title>By: Brainspore</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-627076</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainspore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-627076</guid>
		<description>About to say the same thing. The Wiccan religion dates back to 1954, more than half a century after L. Frank Baum wrote &quot;The Wizard of Oz&quot; and a good 15 years after Margaret Hamilton played the Wicked Witch in green-skinned technicolor. If Wiccans didn&#039;t want people to make that association then they probably should have chosen another term to describe themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About to say the same thing. The Wiccan religion dates back to 1954, more than half a century after L. Frank Baum wrote &#8220;The Wizard of Oz&#8221; and a good 15 years after Margaret Hamilton played the Wicked Witch in green-skinned technicolor. If Wiccans didn&#8217;t want people to make that association then they probably should have chosen another term to describe themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: cuvtixo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-626565</link>
		<dc:creator>cuvtixo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-626565</guid>
		<description>Yes, exactly. I wanted to write a similar response to Gendun, but I have to wonder if his thorough skepticism is based on an anti-drug agenda rather than casual ignorance. See recent news of the firing of Professor David Nutt, former UK chief drug advisor.  For every psychedelia enthusiast who espouses the connection without question, there are at least as many who dismiss the hypothosis with equally unjustified prejudice against it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, exactly. I wanted to write a similar response to Gendun, but I have to wonder if his thorough skepticism is based on an anti-drug agenda rather than casual ignorance. See recent news of the firing of Professor David Nutt, former UK chief drug advisor.  For every psychedelia enthusiast who espouses the connection without question, there are at least as many who dismiss the hypothosis with equally unjustified prejudice against it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kludgegrrl</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623525</link>
		<dc:creator>Kludgegrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623525</guid>
		<description>I second debg&#039;s point -- the &quot;witch craze&quot; was an early modern phenomenon, not a medieval one.  The official position of the Church in the Middle Ages was that people who thought that they were witches were deluded (perhaps by the devil) and had no actual powers.  

There is a *vast* amount of scholarship on why so many people were accused and sometimes admitted to being witches, and while there is no consensus, most arguments tie their appearance with factors specific to the early modern period (reformation, inquisition, social upheaval...)

Moreover, most of the data we posses about what the &quot;witches&quot; allegedly did is seriously compromised by how the information was gathered (torture, hearsay).  It is extremely difficult to determine what people accused of things like witchcraft actually believed themselves.

[disclaimer: I too am a medievalist]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second debg&#8217;s point &#8212; the &#8220;witch craze&#8221; was an early modern phenomenon, not a medieval one.  The official position of the Church in the Middle Ages was that people who thought that they were witches were deluded (perhaps by the devil) and had no actual powers.  </p>
<p>There is a *vast* amount of scholarship on why so many people were accused and sometimes admitted to being witches, and while there is no consensus, most arguments tie their appearance with factors specific to the early modern period (reformation, inquisition, social upheaval&#8230;)</p>
<p>Moreover, most of the data we posses about what the &#8220;witches&#8221; allegedly did is seriously compromised by how the information was gathered (torture, hearsay).  It is extremely difficult to determine what people accused of things like witchcraft actually believed themselves.</p>
<p>[disclaimer: I too am a medievalist]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-625322</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-625322</guid>
		<description>All I saw was the number five wave hello to me.  Not wanting to seem rude, I promptly waved back. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I saw was the number five wave hello to me.  Not wanting to seem rude, I promptly waved back. </p>
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		<title>By: dhalgren</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-624046</link>
		<dc:creator>dhalgren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-624046</guid>
		<description>All I got to say is in one word: Salvia

it&#039;s legal, you can buy it in smoke shops. Every drug that I&#039;ve taken to &#039;see&#039; or to &#039;go&#039; to another visual state or mental state have all been a big show with neat special effects but always you are still in this world...

Salvia...say bye bye to reality my friends when you smoke it, depending on the quality of course. It makes every other drug pointless. Reality is ripped open and you pierce the illusion that what people perceive as the every day mundane. 

In other words, stop sniffing the paint, snorting crap on your noise, smoking out of glass pipes, chewing on glass vials, what have you. Shrooms are still fun of course but if you want to chase Alice down the rabbit hole, Salvia is the only way to fly.

enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I got to say is in one word: Salvia</p>
<p>it&#8217;s legal, you can buy it in smoke shops. Every drug that I&#8217;ve taken to &#8216;see&#8217; or to &#8216;go&#8217; to another visual state or mental state have all been a big show with neat special effects but always you are still in this world&#8230;</p>
<p>Salvia&#8230;say bye bye to reality my friends when you smoke it, depending on the quality of course. It makes every other drug pointless. Reality is ripped open and you pierce the illusion that what people perceive as the every day mundane. </p>
<p>In other words, stop sniffing the paint, snorting crap on your noise, smoking out of glass pipes, chewing on glass vials, what have you. Shrooms are still fun of course but if you want to chase Alice down the rabbit hole, Salvia is the only way to fly.</p>
<p>enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: ryuthrowsstuff</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623559</link>
		<dc:creator>ryuthrowsstuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623559</guid>
		<description>Kludgegrrl is right. Take for example Margret Murry&#039;s The Witch Cult in Western Europe. One of the more influential books on witchcraft every published. (For example its was one of the major influences on Alister Crowley, and in large part the basis for Gardinerian Wicca). A lot of common ideas about witches and witchcraft come from this book or scholarship based on it. Murry&#039;s book is now largely considered to be a deliberate forgery, or sourced from deliberate forgeries. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kludgegrrl is right. Take for example Margret Murry&#8217;s The Witch Cult in Western Europe. One of the more influential books on witchcraft every published. (For example its was one of the major influences on Alister Crowley, and in large part the basis for Gardinerian Wicca). A lot of common ideas about witches and witchcraft come from this book or scholarship based on it. Murry&#8217;s book is now largely considered to be a deliberate forgery, or sourced from deliberate forgeries. </p>
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		<title>By: Gendun</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623560</link>
		<dc:creator>Gendun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623560</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve looked at quite a bit of material examining evidence for the pre-modern use of hallucinogens and in the vast majority of cases the arguments are pieced together with very dubious evidence and selective argumentation bordering on outright misrepresentation. Much of the ancient mushroom/soma material is of this ilk, and the medieval witchcraft flying ointment theories likewise seem to have very weak evidence supporting them. 

If you read this article closely you will see that there are many citations, but almost all of them document factors which are themselves circumstantial evidence for the use of flying ointments by medieval witches. We can cite with certainty that a writer in the 1960s believed in this theory, or that so-called witches were believed by a classical author to rub ointments on their bodies, or that this term or that may refer to the administration of an ointment to the body, but on close inspection we&#039;re missing the smoking gun -- a contemporaneous account clearly establishing a link between visionary transformation or flight with the administration of a solanaceous ointment. 

After years of following these discussions I must admit that I simply don&#039;t understand this field and what it inspires in people. I&#039;ve come to call this crypto-entheo-hermeneutics, or the attempt to find evidence for undocumented use of psychoactive substances for religious purposes in history. The field is overwhelmingly dominated by people who begin convinced they will find what they are looking for, who rife through historical evidence and cherry pick the facts which support their theories and disregard or explain away strong counter-evidence, i.e. no witch confession ever described what they&#039;re asserting here. I do not understand what it is about this topic that seems to excite so much amateurish speculation, pseudo-scholarship, and such extremely low standards of evidence. 

I note that the cover of this book is a clear testimony to the phenomenon I&#039;m describing. The image is a reproduction of a prehistoric cave painting in Algeria that may depict a deity with mushrooms projecting from its body. While that image is striking and in wide circulation, it&#039;s not well known that it is not a picture of the cave painting, rather, it is a reproduction drawn by a colleague and intimate of Terrence McKenna which exaggerates the mushroom-like quality of the protuberances on this figure&#039;s perimeter. 

There is clearly evidence of use of solanaceous plants for medicinal and even visionary purposes -- this is well established. But I question the zeal with which many authors take this phenomenon or that and set out to prove that it must be explainable by a psychoactive substance. They seem to often find a large and credulous audience willing to embrace that hypothesis. Perhaps it is testimony to the material reductionism in our age, to conclude that all spiritual visionary phenomena in history must be explainable by pharmacology. Surely the initiation of Eleusis or the rhapsodic praise of the Vedas must have their origins in some plant drug. A case in point is Benny Shanon&#039;s extremely dubious claim that some form of Acacia-based ayahuasca precipitated the theophany of Moses. For heaven&#039;s sake, we have no evidence for the historicity of Moses, much less that he made a plant preparation containing DMT and MAOIs. 

Let&#039;s all hold ourselves to a higher standard, eh? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve looked at quite a bit of material examining evidence for the pre-modern use of hallucinogens and in the vast majority of cases the arguments are pieced together with very dubious evidence and selective argumentation bordering on outright misrepresentation. Much of the ancient mushroom/soma material is of this ilk, and the medieval witchcraft flying ointment theories likewise seem to have very weak evidence supporting them. </p>
<p>If you read this article closely you will see that there are many citations, but almost all of them document factors which are themselves circumstantial evidence for the use of flying ointments by medieval witches. We can cite with certainty that a writer in the 1960s believed in this theory, or that so-called witches were believed by a classical author to rub ointments on their bodies, or that this term or that may refer to the administration of an ointment to the body, but on close inspection we&#8217;re missing the smoking gun &#8212; a contemporaneous account clearly establishing a link between visionary transformation or flight with the administration of a solanaceous ointment. </p>
<p>After years of following these discussions I must admit that I simply don&#8217;t understand this field and what it inspires in people. I&#8217;ve come to call this crypto-entheo-hermeneutics, or the attempt to find evidence for undocumented use of psychoactive substances for religious purposes in history. The field is overwhelmingly dominated by people who begin convinced they will find what they are looking for, who rife through historical evidence and cherry pick the facts which support their theories and disregard or explain away strong counter-evidence, i.e. no witch confession ever described what they&#8217;re asserting here. I do not understand what it is about this topic that seems to excite so much amateurish speculation, pseudo-scholarship, and such extremely low standards of evidence. </p>
<p>I note that the cover of this book is a clear testimony to the phenomenon I&#8217;m describing. The image is a reproduction of a prehistoric cave painting in Algeria that may depict a deity with mushrooms projecting from its body. While that image is striking and in wide circulation, it&#8217;s not well known that it is not a picture of the cave painting, rather, it is a reproduction drawn by a colleague and intimate of Terrence McKenna which exaggerates the mushroom-like quality of the protuberances on this figure&#8217;s perimeter. </p>
<p>There is clearly evidence of use of solanaceous plants for medicinal and even visionary purposes &#8212; this is well established. But I question the zeal with which many authors take this phenomenon or that and set out to prove that it must be explainable by a psychoactive substance. They seem to often find a large and credulous audience willing to embrace that hypothesis. Perhaps it is testimony to the material reductionism in our age, to conclude that all spiritual visionary phenomena in history must be explainable by pharmacology. Surely the initiation of Eleusis or the rhapsodic praise of the Vedas must have their origins in some plant drug. A case in point is Benny Shanon&#8217;s extremely dubious claim that some form of Acacia-based ayahuasca precipitated the theophany of Moses. For heaven&#8217;s sake, we have no evidence for the historicity of Moses, much less that he made a plant preparation containing DMT and MAOIs. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s all hold ourselves to a higher standard, eh? </p>
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		<title>By: 2k</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623816</link>
		<dc:creator>2k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623816</guid>
		<description>Hook, line and sinker!
You somehow contrive to exude the notion that whilst it should be thought of as irrational to treat drugs as being a contributing factor to the dissemination of cultural experience, the actual and obvious ongoing impact they have on many aspects of life should, I don&#039;t wonder, be taken as a fairly obvious given and we&#039;ll all just continue staring at our feet, shall we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hook, line and sinker!<br />
You somehow contrive to exude the notion that whilst it should be thought of as irrational to treat drugs as being a contributing factor to the dissemination of cultural experience, the actual and obvious ongoing impact they have on many aspects of life should, I don&#8217;t wonder, be taken as a fairly obvious given and we&#8217;ll all just continue staring at our feet, shall we?</p>
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		<title>By: RikF</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-624591</link>
		<dc:creator>RikF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-624591</guid>
		<description>I dug out Belladonna and Aconite the other night, inspired by my discovery that back in the UK I&#039;m missing Whitby this weekend.  &lt;sigh&gt; Perhaps it is time to start thinking about a trip home!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dug out Belladonna and Aconite the other night, inspired by my discovery that back in the UK I&#8217;m missing Whitby this weekend.  <sigh> Perhaps it is time to start thinking about a trip home!</sigh></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/10/29/medieval-witches-and.html#comment-623580</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-623580</guid>
		<description>The guy on the cover of the book looks like a psychadelic version of the guys from Spy vs. Spy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guy on the cover of the book looks like a psychadelic version of the guys from Spy vs. Spy.</p>
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