20-year old Iraqi woman dies; father ran her over for being too Westernized

A young Iraqi woman died tonight in Arizona because her father believed she had become too Westernized. Noor Faleh Almaleki, the 20-year old pictured here, moved to the Phoenix area in the mid-90s with her family. Her father, Faleh Hassan Almaleki, feared that her American upbringing had led her to abandon traditional Iraqi values. He opposed the way she dressed and the way she resisted his rules. So on October 20th, he ran over her and another woman, Amal Khalaf, in his Jeep Grand Cherokee as they walked across a parking lot. Khalaf — who is the daughter's roommate and the mother of her boyfriend — survived, but the daughter died tonight in the hospital. Her father is in police custody now after a failed attempt to escape to the UK via Mexico. Iraqi woman, 20, dies; police in Arizona say father ran over her

I'm a contributing editor here at Boing Boing. I also have a blog (TokyoMango), a book (Urawaza), and I freelance for Wired, Make, the NY Times Magazine, PRI's Studio360, etc. I'm @tokyomango on Twitter.

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demidan

Moderation in all things, even moderation.
- 2k
  
  fail.
Chanttojah

we should brand him as a terrorist.
Seize his and the rest of his families assets.
Arrest, Torture, imprison all of them without due process.
give the forfeited assets to GM to aid them in making more Cadillac Escalades….
Our military should then invade the relatives nation.

We should do all of this for Jeezus

You’re either with us or your against us!
(you too Jeezus)
ZippySpincycle

Say, isn’t there some way to blame Obama for this?
Anonymous

A CAR? He thought she was too westernized and he killed her with a CAR? That’s like shooting someone for being against gun control. That’s like a Creationist taking newly-developed antibiotics to fight a drug-resistant infection.

Not that killing her in a less than westernized way, like say public stoning, would have been any better.
Francesco Fondi

@Joe In the last 6 months we had 2 similar homicides committed by psychotic Arab integralist “fathers” in Italy so, even not being Christian, I think the difference between monotheistic superstitions is quite strong (even tough all are in some way sexist, homophobic and racist) …

People telling that religion is another thing and these criminals are acting only because their traditions/social values really do not understand how “reality” is lived and perceived by people who believe in divinities…
homais

I’ve come to dread the discussion sections on articles like this, because I know eventually I’ll run into some comment like Xenu’s, which more or less (in this case more) amount to: “These people don’t value human life, therefore kill them all!”

And then there are the calls to ban (only specific, already-stigmatized) groups from the country, never mind the many atrocities you don’t notice because they come from less-stigmatized groups. Or the way people assume this had anything to do with religious dogma, rather than the kind of chauvinist culturally-insecure need-to-assert-power-in-a-situation-I-don’t-understand nonsense you get from all sorts of immigrants.

It’s not just that this would be a very different discussion if a Christian or an Atheist immigrant had done the exact same thing (though it would be a different discussion). It’s the crude mapping of a complex human event onto Yet Another Polemical Screaming Match about Islam, or about Islamophobia, or about religion, or about immigrants, or about tolerance, or whatever your personal bloody shirt is, that makes these discussions just useless.
shaunoneil

Reading this, I was horrified that such nutjobs think the UK would be a good place to escape to.

I’m glad the linked article makes it more clear that it was British immigration that gave him a one-way back to the US to face justice. It’s not often we get to see them doing something right!
IronyElemental

Something makes me think this wouldn’t have made it out of the local news if they weren’t Muslim.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  Something makes me think this wouldn’t have made it out of the local news if they weren’t Muslim.
  
  To put it in perspective, the number of honor killings in the Muslim world is possibly (statistics are pretty dodgy on these issues for obvious reasons) comparable to bride burnings in India, to female infanticide in India, to female infanticide in China. Killing one’s own daughters is a widespread practice in multiple cultures, and the examples that I’ve provided are economically rather than religiously motivated. We should stop condemning Islam and start condemning the devaluation of women.
  - IamInnocent
    
    I’ve been in all those countries Anitinous and you should stike your ‘widespread’ and replace it with ‘marginalized’. Even in ‘these countries’ basic human reactions prevail.
  - george57l
    
    Totally agree, Antinous, but
    “We should stop condemning Islam and start condemning the devaluation of women.”
    
    And how much of this devaluation of women arises from (medieval) religious beliefs? Islam being not the only one, but one of the more egregious in many specific instances. It aint that simple to separate these issues.
    
    I bet there are plenty of religious nutjobs who, the moment you actively engaged them about not devaluaing women will say either
    1) “My religion requires me to devalue them” (the language will be diffent but the sentiment will at root be this), or even more straightfrowardly
    2) “that is a direct attack on my religion”
    
    If they cannot separate the issues, how can/why should we?
  - georigin
    
    There is no such thing called “Bride Burnings in India!” about 50 – 60 yrs back there was “Sati” the widows would jump into the funeral pyre of their husbands, but not anymore, sati has been fully abolished in India.
    
    Female infanticide does exist in India, however, it is drastically low and only happens in very rural India.
    It is done not because of religious reasons, it is because they think that girls will not bring in money to the family.
    
    But Islam does have a very archaic way of treating women….
    - Antinous / Moderator
      
      Bride burnings have nothing to do with sati. Sati is when a widow is burned on her late husband’s funeral pyre. Bride burning is when a husband or his family kills his wife because she has provided insufficient (illegal) dowry. Or because it frees him up to remarry and get another illegal dowry. It’s an economically motivated crime, and there are about 5,000 cases per year in India.
    - Anonymous
      
      No bride burnings? Tell that to the women in India who have had acid thrown in their face due to their in-laws not thinking their dowry was high enough…
- Anonymous
  
  Where I live any type of father killing his kid murder makes it to the news.
  
  When a parent kills a child it tends to make the headlines. In the past two years we have had a father stab his daughter to death while driving then wait until she was dead before taking her 100km out of the way to a hospital, we had a father light his wife on fire and shoot his toddler, we had a father shoot his wife and kid then brag to the police informant about it (he later claimed insanity) and the list goes on.
  
  Having been in the community I can see something like this escalate to the point of murder. Pride is a powerful thing and obviously daddy was upset that his daughter wasn’t living to his standards. I think we can all agree that that is not a religion thing it is just an asshole thing.
Moniker

@Saskplanner: “We shouldn’t allow them in North America”
How many Muslims have you met personally? I almost don’t know how to respond to this. Admittedly, my sample size is fairly small for North American Muslims, I’ve only met maybe a few hundred in my life. I think that if you go out and meet the people that you’re disparaging, you’ll find them to hold a remarkably large variety of beliefs. Despite the fact that I’m quite open about my atheism (soft atheism) I’ve enjoyed discussing everything from religion, the nature of critique, black holes (with a Muslim professor of astrophysics) to Dr. Who, Will Oldham, camping and poetry. In response to a secular humanist organisation that I’m a part of going to a number of on campus Muslim talks, we were invited to their events in the future to debate and converse. Though I haven’t settled on a position on the burqa/niqab, many of the people whom I know who are pushing the strongest for removing it from culture are Muslims. Many of the people whom I know who are most incensed by the homophobic stance of the OIC (and the OIC in general) are Muslims. So, there really are a great variety of views out there and I invite you to explore them for yourself.
- Notary Sojac
  
  Moniker – I have met a number of Muslims personally, although probably not as many as you.
  
  I have learned that the vast majority agree with me that separation of church and state is a bedrock principle. I welcome them as neighbors and fellow Americans.
  
  Having said that, it’s not an unfair observation that the world’s Muslim-majority nations don’t seem to do nearly as well in terms of separating church and state as do nations which are majority Christian, or Buddhist or Jewish or animist, or what-have-you.
  
  So a concern for the freedom of other religions as a nation’s percentage of Muslims increases does not seem to be innately groundless.
Moniker

In fact, you might want to begin by reading this article: http://visav.phys.uvic.ca/~babul/Arif/CyberMuslim/viewpoint9-11-Ring.html

(And, in case you were curious, this is a different Muslim astrophysicist that the one mentioned above. I don’t know Dr. Babul.)
Anonymous

Just want to second what everyone is saying so far. This guy’s problem wasn’t that he was Iraqi. This guy’s problem was that he was crazy.
Anonymous

just the F*** Off to this person.. he him self not able to be in any religious…. a cruel idiot..psycho…
Mister N

This is a sad story. IT denotes just how culture can be a good and a bad thing: To remain attached to the culture one was born or to blend in with the culture of the new country. In this case, this person could not bare to see his “heritage” being bastardized to the point he chose to destroy it. Even if it was from his own blood.

IT also shows how the limitation of humans from a spiritual point of view. Instead of grow and start up a new life this man chose to end everything. Then he chose to be a coward by running away.

quite sad.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  That makes him sound almost like Medea.
notnigella

if everything he did was so okay with him and his culture, why did he then immediately try to flee the country? he ran because he didn’t want to go to prison for murdering his daughter, and nearly murdering her housemate. however, with any luck, he’ll get to spend his time in prison reviewing his decisions of the day he decided he’d rather have a dead daughter, than one that acted “too Western” for his tastes.
Razzabeth

Who said that these people were Muslim? The news article didn’t.

This is a quirk of Arabic culture, not necessarily religion. I know a family of Christian Arabs, and they also practice hilariously backwards cultural traditions, such as arranged marriages between cousins (100% serious), for example.
- The Chemist
  
  Well, the taboo of cousin-marriage is not particularly common globally. Cousin-marriages aren’t even particularly bad for offspring. Arranged marriage is an interesting phenomenon that has its origins in the days when marriage was more about wealth and status and less about “lurve”, but it’s still not “backwards” unless you can objectively define backwards- an ability I notice is particularly common among oblivious privileged people.
  
  “Arabic culture” is a rather meaningless phrase, at least the way you used it. It’s like saying, “African culture”- as if all African cultures have the same traditions. Even though most Arab cultures, for example, have arranged marriage in common- they differ in the matchmaking process, wedding practices, and levels of courtship. However I wasn’t aware it’s in my culture, for example, to run over daughters with a car. That seems too technologically advanced (or “forward” if you prefer). Surely I should be using a camel and swinging a scimitar?
  
  Discussions like these make me wish introductory anthropology was mandatory in high schools.
  - Anonymous
    
    A) Cousin-marriages are creepy and enough generations of cousins marrying cousins is going to lead to flipper babies or zombies…possibly both
    
    B) I totally agree with
    
    “Arabic culture” is a rather meaningless phrase, at least the way you used it. It’s like saying, “African culture”- as if all African cultures have the same traditions.”
    
    C) This made me laugh:
    
    However I wasn’t aware it’s in my culture, for example, to run over daughters with a car. That seems too technologically advanced (or “forward” if you prefer). Surely I should be using a camel and swinging a scimitar?
    
    D) Interesting choice for “Discussions like these make me wish introductory anthropology was mandatory in high schools.” Personally I would like to see more than 20% or grads read past a grade 4 level.
Neon Tooth

Yes, clearly he was very worried about his family’s safety.I hope the f*cker gets the death sentence after a highly publicized trial.

How wonderfully *primitive* of you, you and the father would probably get along very well.
Moniker

@Razzabeth: I agree that his issue was that he was insane, but a number of news agencies, such as ABC News have reported him as a Muslim, so I can see why people in this thread are saying that. The title of this one, for example is: Muslim Father Arrested for Running Over ‘Westernized’ Daughter.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/US/muslim-father-arrested-running-westernized-daughter/story?id=8956887

Also, a few corrections are in order. Where I wrote: “there really are a great variety,” I meant: “there really is a great variety,” and: “a different Muslim astrophysicist that the one” should read: “a different Muslim astrophysicist than the one.” My apologies. I was in class all day and so apparently can’t write.
jab365

Sadly, someone, somewhere, will think he’s a hero.
S.R.Hadden

This BoingBoing post claims claim that Faleh Hassan Almaleki killed his daughter.

As I understand it, the suspect has been charged, and has not been convicted as of yet.

The original article claims “officers say” that Faleh Hassan Almaleki ran over his daughter. This BoingBoing post includes no such claims.

Does BoingBoing often publish posts which claim that an individual is guilty of murder or manslaughter despite that the individual is in the process of being charged and has not as of yet been convicted?
- Patient
  
  “This BoingBoing post claims claim that Faleh Hassan Almaleki killed his daughter.
  
  As I understand it, the suspect has been charged, and has not been convicted as of yet.
  
  The original article claims “officers say” that Faleh Hassan Almaleki ran over his daughter. This BoingBoing post includes no such claims.
  
  Does BoingBoing often publish posts which claim that an individual is guilty of murder or manslaughter despite that the individual is in the process of being charged and has not as of yet been convicted?”
  
  You’re right, he killed his daughter by running her over then drove straight to Mexico, ditched the car and flew to the UK because of a sudden desire to go sightseeing. /rolleyes
  
  As a matter of fact, after shooting both his daughters 15 times collectively in a Texas hotel after learning they had Boyfriends, Yaser Abdel Said is still in Eqypt on Holiday as well.
  
  From AP article: “Noor Almaleki had backed out of an arranged marriage about a year ago, police learned, and had been living with Khalaf and her son in a nearby town.” The ‘Said’ daughters both refused to return to Eqypt and marry older men (They were aged 17 and 18) as well.
  
  There is nothing here that screams a father irate at his daughter for not following religious principles carried over from his country of origin. Nothing at all, despite the UN stating that over 5,000 women die a year from honor killings. (That they know about…)
chgoliz

Homais @ #19 said:

Or the way people assume this had anything to do with religious dogma, rather than the kind of chauvinist culturally-insecure need-to-assert-power-in-a-situation-I-don’t-understand nonsense

That was hilarious.
Michael Smith

Nothing says America more than running somebody over in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The guy is a patriot!
Frank W

“And if a Christian man kills his daughter because she violates his values (which isn’t that rare), should we then ban Christians from North America?”

Hmm…
nutbastard

@arkizzle

fair enough, but Deuteronomy is low hanging fruit when it comes to retarded Godspeak.
Anonymous

“Is running over your daughter somehow better than her adapting western values?”

Obviously. She’s already lost to the faith. If she’s dead at least she isn’t around to shame him anymore.

“â€œAnd if a Christian man kills his daughter because she violates his values (which isn’t that rare), should we then ban Christians from North America?â€

Hmmâ€¦”

I smell a black flag op coming
dexcox

…and now the father will be westernized by Booba the cellmate.
WalterBillington

This all used to happen so recently in one guise or another in at least AngloSaxon cultures – but we have certainly advanced beyond it. It’s the difference between living in the village and living in the town. The villagers get all a bit obsessive over little things (like white guys shagging their kids) – not really surprising, but very much in need of enlightenment.

I’ve heard plenty of stories of turkish fathers hunting the kid who slept with their daughter. The awful thing is the men see no problem with shagging left right and centre … the numbers don’t stack up.

Ah – religion. Opium of the people.
acb

The fact that he planned to flee to the UK worries me. Now, I’d hope that if the UK can extradite a borderline-autistic hacker and make Roman Polanski think twice about crossing its borders, it’d hand him over to the FBI promptly, though the fact that the country I live in has a reputation as a safe place for murderous traditionalist bigots concerns me.
Tamu

What was the point of you posting this article, Ms. Katayama? Is Boing Boing going to make a point of running articles about violence against women in the future? I think that would actually be very interesting as it is something we have to confront as a society.

Is it going to be a habit for editors to post articles about how Iraqi or possibly other Arabs/Muslims (they’re interchangeable, you know) are particularly messed up in how the treat the women in their family? Because if that’s the case, I don’t think I’m interested.

This father didn’t kill his daughter because she was too Westernized. He killed for the same reason men kill their daughters, wives, girlfriends, all over the United States, North America, the world: because some men want to excercise power and it manifests itself in violent forms of sexism.

If there were no more killings by Iraqi men, or whoever the target of savagery and fear is this year, do the brutal killings of women just come to a dead halt in the world? Do they come to a dead halt in the US or Canada. I’m afraid not.

The emphasis on “honour killings” is a way of comforting Westerners that they are not like people they consider “backward” even though these types of crimes are committed constantly by the same group pointing the finger.

Even worse, this is about a girl who got killed by her father, and that will get lost in so much noise about the background of the family. People will get their anti-Iraqi rocks off on the back of this girl’s tragedy.
Celestyna

Most of the beginning comments on here sound like they came straight from a Fox News forum.

You can always tell which posts are going to bring out the bigots.
rtresco

I thought BoingBoing was a site about tech gadgets, design innovations, sci-fi, and the ebb and flow of the internets. You know, all intelluctual like. How do the racist bigots who post here even know about BoingBoing? How can you be interested in such forward thinking things, but not have it apply across all your thought processes.
hbl

Nothing Westernises a man more than spending some quality time in a American prison.
Hawley

oppose westernization then drive over someone in your Jeep Grand Cherokee

comedy!
Anonymous

Pater FUCKING Familias! This man is more Western (Roman) than any of you so called Americans!
Anonymous

That is such a sad story. I feel so bad for that girl and the life she could have had. What a Shame. Why would you bring your family to America if you didnt want to become Americans.
Anonymous

Murder by car was a pretty common assassination method used by Saddam Hussein.
Tritty

I think this is a testament to what a immoral n culture-less country this. this man surely was having a lot of trouble adjusting to the US. a truly horrible act any where but if the claim was made that she was too “westernized” he probably was very unhappy here. uncomfortable in an area that has so little discipline and so much greed. i live in az n drove thru phx last night unfortunately. i would be very unhappy living there too.
cymk

This is why I don’t like organized religion. It always complicates things and inevitably ends up with someone killing someone else over their beliefs or lack there of. From a westernized perspective this man is crazy, coming here and then crying foul when his daughter becomes “more” westernized than he would like.

Take a look at things from his perspective, your daughter has “shirked” her faith in favor of something more corrupt and material (ie: materialism instead of faith). I’m sure from his perspective she had committed a slight against his god, and the only way to save her, and save the embarrassment of the family would be to kill her. Yes, unlike our american culture, many cultures that we would consider more “backwards” or faith based, hold a high standard when it comes to family honor. Committing sins against their god or social faux pas, results in a loss of honor, and the only way to regain honor is to kill the offending member of your family.

I think this is a disparity that arises when any new culture migrates to a new country with an established culture. In this case the new culture, muslims, wants the same freedom and benefits that the established culture has, but without having to follow the same social rules. Given the choice I am sure muslim culture would cherry pick which freedoms would apply to certain members of its society, rather than have them all apply to all members of muslim culture/society.
Anonymous

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Two such killings have taken place in Ontario in the last few years.

Here’s an article about 16 year old Aqsa Parvez:

http://www.torontolife.com/features/girl-interrupted/
lennyd44

On unrelated news, it’s okay for father to stabs her daughter countless times for marrying Christian man…
adamnvillani

Sati is rare now but it does still happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suttee#Current_incidence
Anonymous

This is my first time commenting, but I feel compelled to.

Women and girls die every week in America at the hands of fathers, husbands and boyfriends. The fact that BoingBoing has chosen to single this ONE EXAMPLE out above the rest is irresponsible and ridiculous. I can only assume that the facts of the case regarding the mans background were the reason for posting. Men kill or assault women EVERY DAY.

Some men are religious, some are not. It makes no difference. The fundamental underpinning is that of seeing women as property. And until women have full and complete agency and equal rights under the law, they will remain the property of those in their lives with more power and agency.

If you want to make a difference, stop squabbling over religion and start fighting for reproductive rights, equal pay, domestic violence outreach and self-esteem building for women and girls so that they have the power and wherewithal to get themselves away from the crazies. Start fighting the constant and crushing exploitation of women’s bodies in advertising and media. Women are not objects to be owned, they are human beings.

You will not change peoples religion. But you can change the opportunities of those affected by oppression.
Ratbus

There is a possible similar situation shaping up with this runaway case in Florida. According to the article (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,541540,00.html), if Rifqa is returned to her family and refuses to give up Christianity, then they must kill her if they are true believers.

I don’t know how much of that is really true about the religion, but I did go to a local mosque one time with a friend and they did preach that it’s your duty to strike down anyone you see not following the rules of the Koran or you might as well be breaking those rules yourself.

I have only had a very limited exposure, but in that couple of hours I was pretty shocked at the lack of tolerance even shown in a Tallahassee mosque.
- arkizzle / Moderator
  
  Not really directed at you Ratbus, but you brought it up :)
  
  “if Rifqa is returned to her family and refuses to give up Christianity, then they must kill her if they are “true believers”. ”
  
  Sounds like what Jews and Christians are supposed to do if they are true believers..
  
  Do not have any other gods before me. (Exodus 20:2â€“17)
  
  You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me.. (Deuteronomy 5:6â€“21)
  
  Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
  
  Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
  
  If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
  
  Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. ‘The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.’ (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
  
  Have we not yet worked out that there is no such thing as a True Believer?
  
  All religion is interpretation. What did God mean by that? What if the situation was slightly different? Which law takes precedence if there is a conflict? All religious laws are/were debated fiercely by the academics and theologians concerned with them, over the centuries. They are not absolute.
  
  And as counter-intuitive as it sounds, there isn’t even absolutes to dogma or doctrine, because all you have to do is ask the next flavour of that religion to get a different ‘absolute’ answer.
  
  There is no True Believer. Only one who values their faith/interpretation above others’ (or indeed, one held up by others, in caricature of the whole group).
- TheWillow
  
  you know she got sent back to Ohio like a week ago, right?
  - Patient
    
    That is Fathima Rifqa Bary a different girl, she returned back to Ohio last week under supervised care.
  - Marya
    
    Yes, but she is in the care & custody of Children’s Services (ODJFS).
    Marya – in Ohio
GiuseppeM

I must say I am enjoying seeing so many people twist themselves into pretzels trying to say all of the “right” things.

I know many muslims, most of them modernized who hate the fact that the extremists are given so much “positive” coverage from the mainstream media. Making it very difficult for them to have a voice.

Religion today (a poem)
The Popeâ€™s a total Nazi,
Whatâ€™s the deal with those Hindus?
Judaismâ€™s not so bad,
Except for all the Jews

Hey, Buddha! Would it kill you,
To wear a frickinâ€™ shirt?
(I can say most anything And Iâ€™m never getting hurt)

But letâ€™s not mention Islam,
Weâ€™ll play it safe instead
Hard to make religious jokes,
When you donâ€™t have a head

You’re Welcome!
nerak

Did you see the father’s Rush Limbaugh-like face? I think HE’S become far too westernized.
Anonymous

Itâ€™s very sad when someone’s beliefs would drive them to murdering their own family member. I get upset if I mistakenly drop my baby’s spoon, I can never imagine ever hurting my daughters. No one deserves to be forced into being something or someone they choose not to be. One would figure that the sole purpose of moving to America was to become an individual. Such a pretty girl, itâ€™s very sad that women today are still being forced into mental imprisonment. Im so proud to be an American.
2k

I like Clarke’s idea for the execution of Octospider war.

You really would be lowering yourself to their level in a mutually destructive purge of the religious. So everybody who signs up does so in the full knowledge that after you’ve gotten rid of the infection you too shall opt to suicide so that your negativity doesn’t spread.
Now bear with me here ’cause, ’cause, I know(!), this sounds awfully familiar but in this case the rational would be removing the irrational!!

Crap.
I wish it was that easy. No matter how hard I try and in what way I frame it; wholesale slaughter of those whom you deem to be the enemy just sucks.

Right then. I’m with Michael.
Gonna hurt your mind,
don’t shoot to kill!
sha’mon!
Anonymous

Wow, she must have shown too much ankle or something. Ignorance knows no boundaries.
Xenu

If running over your children with a truck is a “traditional value” in Iraq, we should have just nuked ‘em.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  Actually, before we invaded, Iraq was pretty fiercely secular, and women outnumbered men in some prominent professions. We destroyed the secular infrastructure.
TarlSS

I’m not one for putting more restrictions on free speech, but something needs to be done about religious preachers who support killing others and performing other illegal activities.

Maybe groups who advocate advocate illegal activities and hate ought to be have their tax exempt status revoked?

I don’t feel that we should be footing the bill for churches, mosques, or other groups that advocate violence, or imply that violence should be visited upon others.

The tax-exempt status is for the purpose of helping organizations that improve communities, like the more sane private (semi)-religious schools, convents, priesthoods and charities

Should religiously motivated crimes be classified as hate crimes?
Murder due to apostasy is appalling. Freedom of religion is one thing, but religiously motivated crime is certainly not part of that. There needs to be a clear link between motive and action, much like how hate-speech and hate-crime are treated in this country.

‘God told me to do it’ should never be an acceptable defense or a free ticket to an insanity plea. Is it really insanity when backed by hundreds and hundreds of rational people?
Razzabeth

Um.. if you didn’t want your daughter to become “Westernized”, then why did you move to fucking America?
mesrop

What a stupid stupid act. If he has no value for life alone then he and his values have no worth in this universe.
agoodsandwich

When I hear about this kind of story, my first thought is usually, “There is something desperately wrong with Arab societies.” I mean, this father sees that his daughter is adopting values he thinks are bad, so he runs her over. Is running over your daughter somehow better than her adapting western values? What?

But then I remember that crazy comes in all varieties, and does not necessarily have anything to do with Islam, or even with Christianity or any other creed for that matter. People don’t need religion to make them awful. Religion simply seems to be a particularly adept outlet for awfulness.
- MrWednesday
  
  *Religion simply seems to be a particularly adept outlet for awfulness.*
  
  Absolutely.
- MollyNYC
  
  People don’t need religion to make them awful
  
  . . . but it certainly helps.
Clay

It seems terribly unlikely to me that this was anywhere near as simple a matter as the girl becoming “too westernized” to live by her father’s provincial standards.

A man kills his own daughter. You don’t do that because you feel you’re losing touch with her; you don’t do that because it’s a family tradition; you don’t do that because you’re Iraqi; you do that because there are pernicious, complicated problems with your life and with your sanity.

My condolences go out to everyone whose lives were connected with both father and daughter.
Neon Tooth

Um.. if you didn’t want your daughter to become “Westernized”, then why did you move to fucking America?

Less chance of being on the receiving end American bombs and coalition sanctions?
- Sam
  
  “Um.. if you didn’t want your daughter to become “Westernized”, then why did you move to fucking America?
  —
  Less chance of being on the receiving end American bombs and coalition sanctions?”
  
  Yes, clearly he was very worried about his family’s safety. I hope the f*cker gets the death sentence after a highly publicized trial.
Anonymous

I’ve read all the commentary in the thread above but a single solitary issue is not being addressed….this man’s daughter was A 20 YEAR OLD GROWN WOMAN!!!!!!!! In every religious family, parents tend to hold a mental and emotional grip on their kids, however, when that kid becomes an adult, and moves out of their parents’ home, that grown child must be respected as an adult, no matter how disappointing they turned out. This woman was living her life, according to how she saw fit…and showed enough “repsect”, to live her disapproved life while not being under the same roof as her fanatical father. Religion blinds Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc…nations were built and detroyed in the name of God, Allah, and what have you. What ever happened to, LIVE AND LET LIVE? No matter what faith one has adopted….sad~
Johnny Cat

Bummer, wow, seriously. I’m so sad for this person, this crime, how horrible. Gah.
Chris Tucker

Religion: Nothing more than an affiliation of delusional psychotics with a tax exempt letter from the IRS.

Christian, Muslim, Jew.

“Must not anger the Invisible Sky Monster, it’ll kill me!”
Saskplanner

Running people who disagree with you is some kind of traditional Iraqi value? OKAY>>>>>>……

Yes, craziness exists in all societies and all religions, but it sure seems to be disproportionate in Muslim society.

Th wrst scrg n th plnt r Mslms. Thy’r nt-gy, nt-wmn nd rprssv n gnrl. W shldn’t llw thm n Nrth mrc.
- teapot
  
  Saskplanner – Fck y, rcst.
  
  Do the words high school shooting mean anything to you? They seem to be a particular problem in the US. I think we should keep all the Americans in America. Otherwise they might bring high school shootings to my city.
  
  dt.
- The Chemist
  
  Good to know you think Muslims are disproportionately crazy. Sure a man might have killed his toddler because he thinks he might be gay, but the headlines aren’t nearly as sexy as this I guess. (Hint: It’s a headline because it doesn’t happen every day)
  
  Meanwhile the man’s religion wasn’t mentioned at all. He’s probably Shi’a, from the last name- but you have no way of knowing that. Meanwhile of course, women in this country are most likely to be killed by their husbands and boyfriends, and anonymous strangers are killed by bigots because they’re the “wrong” sexual orientation- but no one talks about how being an American is a cause of these things. Funny that. I wonder if it’s because most Americans would think that’s a stupid assertion since “American” points to a diverse group of people. At almost 1.6 billion followers- you’d hope Muslims would be equally, if not more diverse, yes?
  
  Press coverage for Muslims who commit crimes is always more intense- you might want to take that into account before you spew ignorant statements about proportionality. Also- the banning from North America thing, let me know how that works out.
EH

If only the dad of my downstairs family knew how to drive, I might get some respite from his near-constant screaming matches with his son over (seemingly) just these sorts of issues.
apoxia

hmmm, first to Saskplanner, wow. I bet you don’t know many muslim people. I know several, perhaps you should try to meet some.

Second, I agree with Clay – obviously a lot more here than meets the eye. People are complex, and generally (unless they are psychotic), there is a chain of events, thoughts, feelings that can be constructed to explain their actions. I’ve witnessed some of that with child sex offenders. Psychology has taught me much, including how to be non-judgmental.
Joe

And if a Christian man kills his daughter because she violates his values (which isn’t that rare), should we then ban Christians from North America?
- george57l
  
  “And if a Christian man kills his daughter because she violates his values (which isn’t that rare), should we then ban Christians from North America?”
  
  Well, it would be a start, at least…
blueelm

Thanks Tamu. Yes, this is about violence against women and it is in “western” culture looking no less ugly.
Ratbus

I hadn’t been keeping tabs on the Rifqa story for a while and didn’t realize she was returned to Ohio. Doesn’t sound like it’s going too well for her.

Also, regarding the comments about Christianity preaching death to non believers…I know it’s out there in writing, but in all of the years I was forced to go to different churches, not once was it brought up by the preacher. I must have spent 100s of forced hours in churches, too. I spent maybe an hour in a mosque and it was one of the main things they preached about that day.

I’m not trying to say Christianity is better than any other religion. However, in my own experience there is a lot more hostility against non Muslims (or women) being taught than hostility towards non Christians. I’ve been to churches speaking in tongues, Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, you name it. So, it’s not like my experience is only with a non denominational hippy church :)

By the way, I made a choice a long time ago to refuse any sort of organized religions until they treat everyone equally, like my gay sister. Even then, I don’t know that I believe in any God.
- Antinous / Moderator
  
  However, in my own experience there is a lot more hostility against non Muslims (or women) being taught than hostility towards non Christians.
  
  I’m guessing that you’re heterosexual.
  - Ratbus
    
    Yep. However, the hostility towards homosexuals is one of the primary reasons I refuse to even go into a church these days. I personally feel that stepping foot into churches that preach you’re going to hell if you’re gay means you’re helping perpetuate that hate.
    
    I still haven’t been present in a church where I was told it was my duty to strike down homosexuals or that I would go to hell just the same. I know it exists, I’m not denying it. From my personal experience of 100s of hours in Christian churches I was never witness to that, but in the single time at a mosque I was.
grikdog

Maybe the following is apocryphal. It was used as justification for the British Raj, after all. A Hindu man objected to being arrested because his dead brother’s wife had “leaped onto the bonfire” — did she jump or was she pushed?

“It’s our quaint ancient custom,” quoth he.

The British judge rejoined. “We Brits also have a quaint ancient custom. When men murder women, we hang them.”