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	<title>Comments on: Ebook license &quot;agreements&quot; are a&#160;ripoff</title>
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	<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html</link>
	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: MadYank</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631556</link>
		<dc:creator>MadYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631556</guid>
		<description>Contrary to popular belief here, I can (and have, and will continue to) save ALL my eBooks, Kindle and otherwise, on my Home Network, for use on my Kindle and on my wife&#039;s Pocket PC. I have a Kindle, and she has her Pocket PC, and when I buy an eBook from Kindle, I can use it, and when I buy a book from Baen Books, I can download it as a Mobi file for the Kindle and as an MS Reader .lit file for her.
And if Microsoft or Amazon think FOR ONE SECOND they can come confiscate ALL the copies I&#039;ve got, they are 100% WRONG! Because MANY of the books I own are MINE, I bought them legally from a Non-DRM source, and while Amazon MAY be able to grab the ones they sold me, they will NOT get any grab on the rest! And as long as my Kindle works, they will NOT get THOSE, either!
Unless, of course, some swinging ding-a-ling manages to get rid of the REST of the U.S. Constitution; they&#039;re doing pretty good so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrary to popular belief here, I can (and have, and will continue to) save ALL my eBooks, Kindle and otherwise, on my Home Network, for use on my Kindle and on my wife&#8217;s Pocket PC. I have a Kindle, and she has her Pocket PC, and when I buy an eBook from Kindle, I can use it, and when I buy a book from Baen Books, I can download it as a Mobi file for the Kindle and as an MS Reader .lit file for her.<br />
And if Microsoft or Amazon think FOR ONE SECOND they can come confiscate ALL the copies I&#8217;ve got, they are 100% WRONG! Because MANY of the books I own are MINE, I bought them legally from a Non-DRM source, and while Amazon MAY be able to grab the ones they sold me, they will NOT get any grab on the rest! And as long as my Kindle works, they will NOT get THOSE, either!<br />
Unless, of course, some swinging ding-a-ling manages to get rid of the REST of the U.S. Constitution; they&#8217;re doing pretty good so far.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ratcity</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631566</link>
		<dc:creator>ratcity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631566</guid>
		<description>&quot;My Amazon MP3&#039;s have no DRM, but their agreement stipulates that I cannot sell my MP3s.&quot;

I&#039;m not sure I&#039;ve quite seen this articulated before so I&#039;m intrigued.  Do others have this problem with the Amazon MP3 store?

Is this really realistic?  You want to be able to openly on your website, presumably with no auditing whatsoever sell mp3s based on the claim that you previously purchased them and will, what, &quot;destroy&quot; your copy?

That seems like an untenable &amp; maximalist position to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My Amazon MP3&#8242;s have no DRM, but their agreement stipulates that I cannot sell my MP3s.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;ve quite seen this articulated before so I&#8217;m intrigued.  Do others have this problem with the Amazon MP3 store?</p>
<p>Is this really realistic?  You want to be able to openly on your website, presumably with no auditing whatsoever sell mp3s based on the claim that you previously purchased them and will, what, &#8220;destroy&#8221; your copy?</p>
<p>That seems like an untenable &#038; maximalist position to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631598</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631598</guid>
		<description>TYPO-SQUAD:

You would be a wormy, contemptible licensee in that scenario, not a licensor.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TYPO-SQUAD:</p>
<p>You would be a wormy, contemptible licensee in that scenario, not a licensor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jgs</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631603</link>
		<dc:creator>jgs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631603</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t buy^H^H^Hlicense DRM&#039;d ebooks.  OTOH, as another poster has pointed out, torrenting them is fairly easy.  So far I&#039;ve done this for books which I own in sliced tree format but would also like to have in softcopy.  This seems to me to balance compensating the author with not encouraging bad behavior on the part of publishers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t buy^H^H^Hlicense DRM&#8217;d ebooks.  OTOH, as another poster has pointed out, torrenting them is fairly easy.  So far I&#8217;ve done this for books which I own in sliced tree format but would also like to have in softcopy.  This seems to me to balance compensating the author with not encouraging bad behavior on the part of publishers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mugabo</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631397</link>
		<dc:creator>mugabo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631397</guid>
		<description>back when books were on paper, who&#039;d bother to copy and distribute them at a prohibitive cost?  digital makes it easier.  want to make a permanent copy?  then just figure out how to automate kindle&#039;s page-turning and your scanner&#039;s page-grabbing (ocr is the easy part).

besides, haven&#039;t these e-book issues been hashed out ad nauseum a few years back with e-music?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>back when books were on paper, who&#8217;d bother to copy and distribute them at a prohibitive cost?  digital makes it easier.  want to make a permanent copy?  then just figure out how to automate kindle&#8217;s page-turning and your scanner&#8217;s page-grabbing (ocr is the easy part).</p>
<p>besides, haven&#8217;t these e-book issues been hashed out ad nauseum a few years back with e-music?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631398</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631398</guid>
		<description>Two years ago I had to purchase an expensive online workbook for a German class (there is also a printed version, but we couldn&#039;t use that for the class).  I had to withdraw; this semester I retook the class and had to repurchase the online workbook at full price, despite it not having been revised at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two years ago I had to purchase an expensive online workbook for a German class (there is also a printed version, but we couldn&#8217;t use that for the class).  I had to withdraw; this semester I retook the class and had to repurchase the online workbook at full price, despite it not having been revised at all.</p>
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		<title>By: eZee</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631399</link>
		<dc:creator>eZee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631399</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t this illegal?
I mean with regards to the &quot;first sale doctrine&quot; of the U.S?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t this illegal?<br />
I mean with regards to the &#8220;first sale doctrine&#8221; of the U.S?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andy_Hodgson</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631400</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy_Hodgson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631400</guid>
		<description>And people wonder why piracy continues. Better idea go buy a book from a store, at least you get to keep it, lend it, burn it, sell it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And people wonder why piracy continues. Better idea go buy a book from a store, at least you get to keep it, lend it, burn it, sell it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: thorlei</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631402</link>
		<dc:creator>thorlei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631402</guid>
		<description>@eZee Well it seams so, but no one cares..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@eZee Well it seams so, but no one cares..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jccalhoun</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631403</link>
		<dc:creator>jccalhoun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631403</guid>
		<description>Wait, are they saying that something with drm on it screws consumers? No way! Who would have thought that drm would limit what paying consumers could do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, are they saying that something with drm on it screws consumers? No way! Who would have thought that drm would limit what paying consumers could do?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: binga</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631405</link>
		<dc:creator>binga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631405</guid>
		<description>Actually, lending or selling a book you have purchased does violate the copyright.  You do own the book, but you do not own the intellectual property (i.e. the novel), and thus you are not allowed to &quot;distribute&quot; it, which is the result of lending or selling or donating the book.  It is completely unenforceable, thus never contested.  Apparently, with the e-books, it does become enforceable, thus they are activating their legal right to protect the author&#039;s copyright.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, lending or selling a book you have purchased does violate the copyright.  You do own the book, but you do not own the intellectual property (i.e. the novel), and thus you are not allowed to &#8220;distribute&#8221; it, which is the result of lending or selling or donating the book.  It is completely unenforceable, thus never contested.  Apparently, with the e-books, it does become enforceable, thus they are activating their legal right to protect the author&#8217;s copyright.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonyman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631407</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631407</guid>
		<description>@binga,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

&quot;The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@binga,<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The doctrine allows the purchaser to transfer (i.e., sell or give away) a particular lawfully made copy of the copyrighted work without permission once it has been obtained.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631408</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631408</guid>
		<description>Wikipedia vehemently disagrees with binga on your freedoms under copyright law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#First-sale_doctrine_and_exhaustion_of_rights

It states: 
&quot;Copyright law does not restrict the owner of a copy from reselling legitimately obtained copies of copyrighted works, provided that those copies were originally produced by or with the permission of the copyright holder.&quot;

binga&#039;s unfounded stance on copyright law is a sad consequence of the indoctrination committed by content holders against our most basic rights. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia vehemently disagrees with binga on your freedoms under copyright law:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#First-sale_doctrine_and_exhaustion_of_rights" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#First-sale_doctrine_and_exhaustion_of_rights</a></p>
<p>It states:<br />
&#8220;Copyright law does not restrict the owner of a copy from reselling legitimately obtained copies of copyrighted works, provided that those copies were originally produced by or with the permission of the copyright holder.&#8221;</p>
<p>binga&#8217;s unfounded stance on copyright law is a sad consequence of the indoctrination committed by content holders against our most basic rights. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Felton</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631409</link>
		<dc:creator>Felton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631409</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Actually, lending or selling a book you have purchased does violate the copyright. You do own the book, but you do not own the intellectual property (i.e. the novel), and thus you are not allowed to &quot;distribute&quot; it, which is the result of lending or selling or donating the book.&lt;/i&gt;

That makes me want to go to my local library  and steal some intellectual property.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Actually, lending or selling a book you have purchased does violate the copyright. You do own the book, but you do not own the intellectual property (i.e. the novel), and thus you are not allowed to &#8220;distribute&#8221; it, which is the result of lending or selling or donating the book.</i></p>
<p>That makes me want to go to my local library  and steal some intellectual property.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: octopod</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631411</link>
		<dc:creator>octopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631411</guid>
		<description>umm, first sale is there specifically to clear up the status of second hand book stores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>umm, first sale is there specifically to clear up the status of second hand book stores.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brown Bourne</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631669</link>
		<dc:creator>Brown Bourne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631669</guid>
		<description>Once we cede the medium, they&#039;ve won.  As Professor Jonathan Zittrain says, The Future of the Internet (http://futureoftheinternet.org/) might just take place on these devices developed for those bereft of tech-savvy.  

Alternatively, we can fight back by recruiting and endorsing cyberscholars and journalists to decry the downsides of ceding full control.  EULAs are adhesion contracts.  Simple and plain.  Sing it from the rafters.

We need to find ways around the law without building institutions like Napster or Pirate Bay that can be sued and shut down.  We need to spur tech companies to bring about disruptive innovation.  Most importantly, we need to encourage our friends behind the Academy&#039;s Walls to spread around the knowledge they have access too. http://brownbourne.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/righteous-theft/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once we cede the medium, they&#8217;ve won.  As Professor Jonathan Zittrain says, The Future of the Internet (<a href="http://futureoftheinternet.org/" rel="nofollow">http://futureoftheinternet.org/</a>) might just take place on these devices developed for those bereft of tech-savvy.  </p>
<p>Alternatively, we can fight back by recruiting and endorsing cyberscholars and journalists to decry the downsides of ceding full control.  EULAs are adhesion contracts.  Simple and plain.  Sing it from the rafters.</p>
<p>We need to find ways around the law without building institutions like Napster or Pirate Bay that can be sued and shut down.  We need to spur tech companies to bring about disruptive innovation.  Most importantly, we need to encourage our friends behind the Academy&#8217;s Walls to spread around the knowledge they have access too. <a href="http://brownbourne.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/righteous-theft/" rel="nofollow">http://brownbourne.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/righteous-theft/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PaulR</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631417</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631417</guid>
		<description>binga and Anonyman: Not to mention that the Kindle license attempts to circumvent copyright law all over the world by limiting your rights with books whose copyright has expired.  Unless they specifically allow you to do so.  (Aren&#039;t they nice?)

Copyright is supposed to work the other way around.  You&#039;re allowed to copy/sell/give/whatever other people&#039;s books, music, etc to your heart&#039;s content, except for during the copyright period (which &lt;i&gt;used&lt;/i&gt; to be a reasonable time).  

Copyright law should trump the Amazon license.  However the Kindle/Amazon &#039;license&#039; is a contract - and very likely overrides law.  

It shouldn&#039;t, if you ask me, contracts shouldn&#039;t be a tool to circumvent the law.  Especially &#039;contracts&#039; that you can&#039;t negotiate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>binga and Anonyman: Not to mention that the Kindle license attempts to circumvent copyright law all over the world by limiting your rights with books whose copyright has expired.  Unless they specifically allow you to do so.  (Aren&#8217;t they nice?)</p>
<p>Copyright is supposed to work the other way around.  You&#8217;re allowed to copy/sell/give/whatever other people&#8217;s books, music, etc to your heart&#8217;s content, except for during the copyright period (which <i>used</i> to be a reasonable time).  </p>
<p>Copyright law should trump the Amazon license.  However the Kindle/Amazon &#8216;license&#8217; is a contract &#8211; and very likely overrides law.  </p>
<p>It shouldn&#8217;t, if you ask me, contracts shouldn&#8217;t be a tool to circumvent the law.  Especially &#8216;contracts&#8217; that you can&#8217;t negotiate.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Saskplanner</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631421</link>
		<dc:creator>Saskplanner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631421</guid>
		<description>I agree with Andy. Just buy the book and don&#039;t buy a Kindle. 

A Kindle is like a zombie book anyways- holding a book with a cover and pages and illustrations is just so real and so appealing and visceral that holding a Kindle is like like holding the undead. 

Kindle versions of what I buy are usually $10 vs $16 for the &#039;real&#039; book and I don&#039;t have to pony up $300 for a piece of junk from China that&#039;s going to break or become obsolete at some point. 

And yah, Kindles hold lots of text, blah,blah,blah. Who cares. I don&#039;t want to carry my library around with me on something I can lose or break anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Andy. Just buy the book and don&#8217;t buy a Kindle. </p>
<p>A Kindle is like a zombie book anyways- holding a book with a cover and pages and illustrations is just so real and so appealing and visceral that holding a Kindle is like like holding the undead. </p>
<p>Kindle versions of what I buy are usually $10 vs $16 for the &#8216;real&#8217; book and I don&#8217;t have to pony up $300 for a piece of junk from China that&#8217;s going to break or become obsolete at some point. </p>
<p>And yah, Kindles hold lots of text, blah,blah,blah. Who cares. I don&#8217;t want to carry my library around with me on something I can lose or break anyway.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Adam_Y</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631426</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam_Y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631426</guid>
		<description>One day, in the not too distant future, Oxfam second-hand bookstores are really screwed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One day, in the not too distant future, Oxfam second-hand bookstores are really screwed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gollux</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631427</link>
		<dc:creator>gollux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631427</guid>
		<description>Meh, just don&#039;t buy a Kindle Book Burner...

There&#039;s other readers out there that need your support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meh, just don&#8217;t buy a Kindle Book Burner&#8230;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s other readers out there that need your support.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pecoto</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631429</link>
		<dc:creator>pecoto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631429</guid>
		<description>    I am very surprised no one has created a software or hardware solution to crack the Kindle DRM.  I mean with the technical skills that are out there, it should be possible.  They cracked the iphone in a few days.  Maybe it just isn&#039;t worth their time?  I love books, but it would be pretty awesome to be able to take a few dozen novels on vacation without packing them all into my luggage.  If someone put out a kindle-like reader that you could load with your own files and wasn&#039;t under the thumb of a company I would buy it in a heartbeat.....and wouldn&#039;t mind paying quite a bit more than the asking price for a kindle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>    I am very surprised no one has created a software or hardware solution to crack the Kindle DRM.  I mean with the technical skills that are out there, it should be possible.  They cracked the iphone in a few days.  Maybe it just isn&#8217;t worth their time?  I love books, but it would be pretty awesome to be able to take a few dozen novels on vacation without packing them all into my luggage.  If someone put out a kindle-like reader that you could load with your own files and wasn&#8217;t under the thumb of a company I would buy it in a heartbeat&#8230;..and wouldn&#8217;t mind paying quite a bit more than the asking price for a kindle.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631430</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631430</guid>
		<description>The problem here is a confusion of things.

If you buy a license to use software, and you do that within the context of a legal contract, then you have no right of sale, according to the terms of the contract.

That means you have to have a damn contract, meaning signatures and all the things that make for a binding contract.

What is going on with digital media in general is the wanting to call it software, but not wanting to make the purchase difficult like it is with enforcable licenses.

EULAs are very questionable things, because they are not really a condition of the sale.  Sneaky stuff.

In a real sale, you don&#039;t get squat, until you&#039;ve done offer and acceptance, on a legal document with signature.

In this kind of sale, they slip the terms into a bundle, and really don&#039;t do those things that real contracts do.  So, technically, there is no sale without the terms being a part of it, but there isn&#039;t a separate stage to this, where the license terms are mutually agreed to.  It&#039;s more like take all of it, or leave it and that&#039;s not the same thing.

At issue then is whether or not citizens media rights can be waived away by slipping a piece of paper in the box, or flashing a screen at them.

I don&#039;t think they should be able to do this.  If the terms are onerous, then the purchase should be onerous, and that&#039;s a perfect check and balance right there.

BTW:  This is why I buy NOTHING digital that isn&#039;t open.  It&#039;s just not worth it.  And if it&#039;s open, you have your rights by default really.  Well, most of them.  Enough to matter, IMHO.

No Kindle for me, until it runs Linux well enough to not bother with Amazon :)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is a confusion of things.</p>
<p>If you buy a license to use software, and you do that within the context of a legal contract, then you have no right of sale, according to the terms of the contract.</p>
<p>That means you have to have a damn contract, meaning signatures and all the things that make for a binding contract.</p>
<p>What is going on with digital media in general is the wanting to call it software, but not wanting to make the purchase difficult like it is with enforcable licenses.</p>
<p>EULAs are very questionable things, because they are not really a condition of the sale.  Sneaky stuff.</p>
<p>In a real sale, you don&#8217;t get squat, until you&#8217;ve done offer and acceptance, on a legal document with signature.</p>
<p>In this kind of sale, they slip the terms into a bundle, and really don&#8217;t do those things that real contracts do.  So, technically, there is no sale without the terms being a part of it, but there isn&#8217;t a separate stage to this, where the license terms are mutually agreed to.  It&#8217;s more like take all of it, or leave it and that&#8217;s not the same thing.</p>
<p>At issue then is whether or not citizens media rights can be waived away by slipping a piece of paper in the box, or flashing a screen at them.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think they should be able to do this.  If the terms are onerous, then the purchase should be onerous, and that&#8217;s a perfect check and balance right there.</p>
<p>BTW:  This is why I buy NOTHING digital that isn&#8217;t open.  It&#8217;s just not worth it.  And if it&#8217;s open, you have your rights by default really.  Well, most of them.  Enough to matter, IMHO.</p>
<p>No Kindle for me, until it runs Linux well enough to not bother with Amazon :)</p>
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		<title>By: The Chemist</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631431</link>
		<dc:creator>The Chemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631431</guid>
		<description>Solution: Don&#039;t be a sheep (early adopter), and just don&#039;t buy it. Vote with your feet and let Amazon worry about the consequences. Meanwhile, if you do buy it- sue. IANAL, but looking over previous First-Sale cases it looks like precedent is on your side. Even if they rule that you&#039;re allowed to rip/&quot;lend&quot; Amazon still won&#039;t be under any obligation to help you or make it easy. So I probably still wouldn&#039;t buy anything that doesn&#039;t give me complete control over my library. Give me dead tree stuff any day. Besides, you can&#039;t show off an e-library anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solution: Don&#8217;t be a sheep (early adopter), and just don&#8217;t buy it. Vote with your feet and let Amazon worry about the consequences. Meanwhile, if you do buy it- sue. IANAL, but looking over previous First-Sale cases it looks like precedent is on your side. Even if they rule that you&#8217;re allowed to rip/&#8221;lend&#8221; Amazon still won&#8217;t be under any obligation to help you or make it easy. So I probably still wouldn&#8217;t buy anything that doesn&#8217;t give me complete control over my library. Give me dead tree stuff any day. Besides, you can&#8217;t show off an e-library anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: jakx92</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631432</link>
		<dc:creator>jakx92</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631432</guid>
		<description>If you don&#039;t like the agreement, don&#039;t agree to it. Simple. Eventualy, someone will sense a void in the market and make a drm-free EBook system. I would also like to note that 1st. Sale Doctrine might not apply because your just licensing the book not buying it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t like the agreement, don&#8217;t agree to it. Simple. Eventualy, someone will sense a void in the market and make a drm-free EBook system. I would also like to note that 1st. Sale Doctrine might not apply because your just licensing the book not buying it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631689</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631689</guid>
		<description>Real books are nice objects, but they&#039;re really hard to search. Getting confused in an unusually large classic, I&#039;ve had to go to Gutenberg to figure out what I should be remembering. So once this sort of licensing stuff is sorted out, there will be real reasons to use e-books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real books are nice objects, but they&#8217;re really hard to search. Getting confused in an unusually large classic, I&#8217;ve had to go to Gutenberg to figure out what I should be remembering. So once this sort of licensing stuff is sorted out, there will be real reasons to use e-books.</p>
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		<title>By: BookGuy</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631438</link>
		<dc:creator>BookGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631438</guid>
		<description>Do any of the current eReaders on the market actually stop you from loading your own content?  Just curious.  I have a Kindle, and over the last week, I loaded and read Cory&#039;s latest, &quot;Makers,&quot; on it (I&#039;d like to think the main characters in the book would approve of such subversion), and that file was not purchased from Amazon, nor does it have DRM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do any of the current eReaders on the market actually stop you from loading your own content?  Just curious.  I have a Kindle, and over the last week, I loaded and read Cory&#8217;s latest, &#8220;Makers,&#8221; on it (I&#8217;d like to think the main characters in the book would approve of such subversion), and that file was not purchased from Amazon, nor does it have DRM.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Chemist</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631439</link>
		<dc:creator>The Chemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631439</guid>
		<description>&quot;I would also like to note that 1st. Sale Doctrine might not apply because your just licensing the book not buying it.&quot;

Courts have time and time again ruled that &quot;licensing&quot; does not necessarily exempt you from First Sale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would also like to note that 1st. Sale Doctrine might not apply because your just licensing the book not buying it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Courts have time and time again ruled that &#8220;licensing&#8221; does not necessarily exempt you from First Sale.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bloodboiler</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631441</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloodboiler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631441</guid>
		<description>Dear Amazon

Don&#039;t bother bringing Kindle to Europe. We don&#039;t take kindly to your types around here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Amazon</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t bother bringing Kindle to Europe. We don&#8217;t take kindly to your types around here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Badger</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631444</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Badger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631444</guid>
		<description>@Bookguy
Of course not. That&#039;s what all this anti-ebook FUD ignores. Having the option to buy DRMed content from Amazon (or Sony, or in the future Barnes &amp; Noble) in no way prevents you from putting public domain stuff (or &quot;pirated&quot; stuff if you can find it and can stomach the frequent OCR errors) on your reader. All it does is give you a *choice*. The idea that somehow not buying an ebook reader will make publishers sell DRM free ebooks is absurd. If that model made any economic sense, they&#039;d be doing that *now*.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bookguy<br />
Of course not. That&#8217;s what all this anti-ebook FUD ignores. Having the option to buy DRMed content from Amazon (or Sony, or in the future Barnes &#038; Noble) in no way prevents you from putting public domain stuff (or &#8220;pirated&#8221; stuff if you can find it and can stomach the frequent OCR errors) on your reader. All it does is give you a *choice*. The idea that somehow not buying an ebook reader will make publishers sell DRM free ebooks is absurd. If that model made any economic sense, they&#8217;d be doing that *now*.</p>
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		<title>By: Bluecobra</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2009/11/08/ebook-license-agreem.html#comment-631445</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluecobra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-631445</guid>
		<description>Even if they decided to make non-DRM ebooks, it&#039;s not going to change the license and you still won&#039;t be allowed to sell your old ebooks.  My Amazon MP3&#039;s have no DRM, but their agreement stipulates that I cannot sell my MP3s.  Until someone challenges these license agreements in court, I suggest buying physical books/CD&#039;s if you want to be able to sell them later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if they decided to make non-DRM ebooks, it&#8217;s not going to change the license and you still won&#8217;t be allowed to sell your old ebooks.  My Amazon MP3&#8242;s have no DRM, but their agreement stipulates that I cannot sell my MP3s.  Until someone challenges these license agreements in court, I suggest buying physical books/CD&#8217;s if you want to be able to sell them later.</p>
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