Comments on: Why paywalls won't help most big newspapers http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 21 May 2013 12:47:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: jameswdcrawford http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650499 jameswdcrawford Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650499 In the UK we had a very high profile example of a paywall being introduced. The move by Johnston Press and this post inspired me to write this: http://www.jamescrawford.org.uk/when-paywalls-work-in-publishing/media In the UK we had a very high profile example of a paywall being introduced. The move by Johnston Press and this post inspired me to write this: http://www.jamescrawford.org.uk/when-paywalls-work-in-publishing/media

]]> By: Tzctlp http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-651565 Tzctlp Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-651565 Ideas being free is not fluff, it is reality. That is way companies lobby governments have to put walls around them (copyrights, patents, whatever) or do some of the dirty work themselves (paywalls) in order to subvert the natural order of things. It may be commercially sensible to do so, but the damage that it is doing to the dissemination of culture and information is incalculable . Ideas being free is not fluff, it is reality.

That is way companies lobby governments have to put walls around them (copyrights, patents, whatever) or do some of the dirty work themselves (paywalls) in order to subvert the natural order of things.

It may be commercially sensible to do so, but the damage that it is doing to the dissemination of culture and information is incalculable .

]]> By: Teresa Nielsen Hayden http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650805 Teresa Nielsen Hayden Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650805 Phoulx, I've seen as many or more unrealistic business plans come out of the conservative side of the old culture wars as I've seen come out of the more utopian end of things. The most recent Wall Street bailouts would pay for one hell of a lot of start-ups. You know what I don't see a lot of? Hippies. Why not blame Whigs or Muggletonians? It would make about as much sense. Phoulx, I’ve seen as many or more unrealistic business plans come out of the conservative side of the old culture wars as I’ve seen come out of the more utopian end of things. The most recent Wall Street bailouts would pay for one hell of a lot of start-ups.

You know what I don’t see a lot of? Hippies. Why not blame Whigs or Muggletonians? It would make about as much sense.

]]> By: hobomike http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650565 hobomike Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650565 how about paying al a carte, by article? Or by section? Here's another idea: It's well known that the most profitable "news" sites are for sports. So why not have sports fans subsidize real news? :-) how about paying al a carte, by article? Or by section? Here’s another idea: It’s well known that the most profitable “news” sites are for sports. So why not have sports fans subsidize real news? :-)

]]> By: AGC http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650581 AGC Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650581 Pay to post comments. This will generate revenue for newspapers. If a credit card is being used there is a way of identifying people. There are a couple of major newspapers serving the city I live in. I swear that the comment sections are filled in by staffers in political parties. Some newspapers limit what stories you can comment on. Now there should be three categories; i)stories that you are free to comment on; ii)stories that would receive too many bad comments so no public comment section is available; iii)a comment section that you have to pay to post to. Pay to post comments.

This will generate revenue for newspapers. If a credit card is being used there is a way of identifying people.

There are a couple of major newspapers serving the city I live in. I swear that the comment sections are filled in by staffers in political parties.

Some newspapers limit what stories you can comment on. Now there should be three categories;
i)stories that you are free to comment on;
ii)stories that would receive too many bad comments so no public comment section is available;
iii)a comment section that you have to pay to post to.

]]> By: Ted8305 http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650625 Ted8305 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650625 That's not a bad idea, hobomike. World and national news is available through plenty of free channels. Where I'm feeling the hurt is LOCAL news. Maybe if the local paper stopped paying to syndicate state and national stories, they'd save money? I don't need yet another source telling me the same info that's all over the net. I want LOCAL news, and I'm not willing to pay $10 a month for a rag that's 50% shit from AP and Reuters that I already know, 25% fluff, and 25% meaningful local reporting. But I would pay $2.50 a month for just the insightful local reporting, without all the extra junk. That’s not a bad idea, hobomike. World and national news is available through plenty of free channels. Where I’m feeling the hurt is LOCAL news.

Maybe if the local paper stopped paying to syndicate state and national stories, they’d save money? I don’t need yet another source telling me the same info that’s all over the net. I want LOCAL news, and I’m not willing to pay $10 a month for a rag that’s 50% shit from AP and Reuters that I already know, 25% fluff, and 25% meaningful local reporting.

But I would pay $2.50 a month for just the insightful local reporting, without all the extra junk.

]]> By: hello whirled http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-652167 hello whirled Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-652167 Tzctlp argues that patent law and copyright cause "incalculable" damage to the "dissemination of culture" (whatever that means). Tzctlp, copyrights and patents --and variations on them, like Creative Commons-- are tools designed to protect creative people. The principle is honorable and worth strongly defending: The principle is that I should be able to be compensated for my intellectual labor, just as someone else should expect to be compensated for their manual labor. Yes, these tools can be abused, just like any human tool. A hammer can build a house or be a weapon. It's our challenge to be sophisticated, and wise, in our use of tools, Tzctlp. Tzctlp argues that patent law and copyright cause “incalculable” damage to the “dissemination of culture” (whatever that means).

Tzctlp, copyrights and patents –and variations on them, like Creative Commons– are tools designed to protect creative people. The principle is honorable and worth strongly defending: The principle is that I should be able to be compensated for my intellectual labor, just as someone else should expect to be compensated for their manual labor.

Yes, these tools can be abused, just like any human tool. A hammer can build a house or be a weapon. It’s our challenge to be sophisticated, and wise, in our use of tools, Tzctlp.

]]> By: adent1066 http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650650 adent1066 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650650 The local rag in my area, Newsday, just switched over to a paywall. They are charging $5/week to access the website. It would be cheaper to subscribe to the actual paper, except that the best use for the paper is to line my parakeet's cage. It is just a collection of AP newsfeeds anyway, so I'll just go to any of a million other sites for the same coverage. The local rag in my area, Newsday, just switched over to a paywall. They are charging $5/week to access the website. It would be cheaper to subscribe to the actual paper, except that the best use for the paper is to line my parakeet’s cage. It is just a collection of AP newsfeeds anyway, so I’ll just go to any of a million other sites for the same coverage.

]]> By: octopod http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650396 octopod Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650396 what did consumer surveys say about delivering news as a pdf? it's rly something I wouldn't want. what did consumer surveys say about delivering news as a pdf? it’s rly something I wouldn’t want.

]]> By: Rob Beschizza http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650414 Rob Beschizza Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650414 The plain text of each page is available to subscribers, IIRC. It's a small paper so PDF wasn't too troublesome, and we used a custom distiller job to keep file sizes down. Also, we made each page's PDF individually available from a plain html index, a tiny usability thing that radically improves the PDF experience. But we always knew it wasn't perfect, that it was a substitute for real HTML. The plain text of each page is available to subscribers, IIRC. It’s a small paper so PDF wasn’t too troublesome, and we used a custom distiller job to keep file sizes down. Also, we made each page’s PDF individually available from a plain html index, a tiny usability thing that radically improves the PDF experience.

But we always knew it wasn’t perfect, that it was a substitute for real HTML.

]]> By: octopod http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650436 octopod Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650436 thanks, usability and searchability was my concern. some things behind a paywall make sense to me, nature/acm/whatever journals for instance, but can't see where to set a price for local news for it to make any sense from the consumers pov vs a print edition, where grandma can cut out some obituary or an article for her scrapbook. thanks, usability and searchability was my concern. some things behind a paywall make sense to me, nature/acm/whatever journals for instance, but can’t see where to set a price for local news for it to make any sense from the consumers pov vs a print edition, where grandma can cut out some obituary or an article for her scrapbook.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650948 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650948 It would work for the rag I'm at only if our competition was to succumb. The saving grace of our print version is that we can't post a lot of pictures because they eat up space. I live in a sports crazed, beauty pageant nut county. It doesn't hurt to have ace photographers and good print quality. It would work for the rag I’m at only if our competition was to succumb. The saving grace of our print version is that we can’t post a lot of pictures because they eat up space. I live in a sports crazed, beauty pageant nut county. It doesn’t hurt to have ace photographers and good print quality.

]]> By: dancentury http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650438 dancentury Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650438 Interesting. What's to stop Google from buying stories from AP or UPI and putting them up for free, like Breitbart does? And then tapping YouTube for video, Flickr (Yahoo owned, but what the heck) for photos, and Twitter for live information? What content does Murdoch have that's intriguing enough to get people to pay? Wall Street Journal articles, Glen Beck rants, Family Guy clips, and photos of Palin in jogging outfits? Google will get its way. Interesting. What’s to stop Google from buying stories from AP or UPI and putting them up for free, like Breitbart does?

And then tapping YouTube for video, Flickr (Yahoo owned, but what the heck) for photos, and Twitter for live information?

What content does Murdoch have that’s intriguing enough to get people to pay? Wall Street Journal articles, Glen Beck rants, Family Guy clips, and photos of Palin in jogging outfits?

Google will get its way.

]]> By: hello whirled http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650739 hello whirled Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650739 Round of applause. Yup information “wants to be free,” but reporters still need to put food in their pieholes, which requires pies -- whoops meant to say it requires PAYCHECKS. Which is why news providers need to experiment with a mix of free and subscriptions and paywalls and [insert other revenue ideas here]. The Hobbes situation shows why one size doesn’t fit all. A simple, important thing to remember when debating the transformation of the Fourth Estate. Round of applause.

Yup information “wants to be free,” but reporters still need to put food in their pieholes, which requires pies — whoops meant to say it requires PAYCHECKS. Which is why news providers need to experiment with a mix of free and subscriptions and paywalls and [insert other revenue ideas here].

The Hobbes situation shows why one size doesn’t fit all. A simple, important thing to remember when debating the transformation of the Fourth Estate.

]]> By: phoulx http://boingboing.net/2009/11/30/why-the-paywalls-tha.html#comment-650487 phoulx Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-650487 Nice to see something that isn't the typical hyperbole fallacy that overwhelms this place. Too often I see the Utopian hippy "Everything is free" fluff which has yet to work IRL. This story shows there are actually different levels of 'free' and 'success'. Nice to see something that isn’t the typical hyperbole fallacy that overwhelms this place. Too often I see the Utopian hippy “Everything is free” fluff which has yet to work IRL. This story shows there are actually different levels of ‘free’ and ‘success’.

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