Also, anonymous, please stop pimping that stupid Lancet report already.
Large numbers of people dying as an indirect result of us military resource mismanagement is NOT the same as willfully trying to exterminate a people and a culture (Tibet).
Why don’t you talk to someone who’s actually serving in Iraq?
American soldiers spend most of their time guarding things.
They didn’t go out and bayonet two million people.

The People’s Republic of China is a legitimate government. We may not agree with a lot of what they do, but life in modern China is not like living in an open-air armed prison camp. It is a place where more than a billion people are clothed, sheltered, educated and fed every single day.

The Communist government that emerged under Mao in 1949 marked the end of a long period of occupation, war, warlord feudalism and exploitation by forces from both within and outside the country. The ensuing 60 years have been no “walk in the park,” but today the Chinese people are living exceedingly well and most regard Mao as a hero who saved the nation.

Perhaps somebody in China might consider a July 4th version of a Leica manufactured for the US market to be offensive – and equally ridiculous idea.

***

P.S. There is a long-time Chinese Leica rip-off line of cameras called “Red Flag” which are quite beautiful and also very hot collectors’ items.

I don’t think anyone would defend the CCP’s human rights record but as Leica undoubtedly sell cameras in the USA, currently involved in massive human rights violations around the globe, why would not sell them in China?

That looks like typical Chinese plastic garbage, that will fall apart after a day.

But it is a Leica, so it will cost more than China’s GDP. Still cheaper than an M8 though.

The Chinese constitution states: “Women in the People’s Republic of China enjoy equal rights with men in all spheres of life, political, economic, cultural, social, and family life.” This is complete lip service given to women’s rights on paper and isn’t practiced on the streets, homes and workplaces of the nation.

But yeah, you aren’t an apologist, right?

You could just as well argue that celebrating America’s bicentennial in 1976 was somewhat creepy given that America had just gotten out of the Vietnam War, but there was a lot of bicentennial merchandise for sale then too.

China’s not bayoneting people in Tibet, either. They’re not “exterminating a people”. They are actively trying to dilute a culture through migration, and religious freedom isn’t allowed. You could really get on your high horse about that, though it’s not nearly so damning as your implied genocide, if you weren’t actively messing around with religion and culture in Afghanistan and Iraq, banning sects, opening girl’s schools, establishing secular democracies where there were theocracies, and otherwise trying to change the culture to your liking. That’s different? Why? Because your culture is better than theirs?

(Hah, it just struck me…Tibet was a theocracy, too, and I can say with assurance that the Communists would have insisted on equality of the sexes. I still think the invasion was wrong, but…interesting parallel, wouldn’t you say?)

I happen to agree that girls should get education, too, but while you’re actively engaging in military action with the goal of changing other cultures, you better watch how you phrase your xenophobia so you aren’t so blatantly hypocritical.

China’s got issues, but it’s also doing very well, and the average Chinese person is delighted and proud of the fact that they as a nation no longer have to grovel. In a recent poll, 80% of them said they were happy with their state of life, versus ~30% in most Western countries (and no, coercion wasn’t involved). I see nothing wrong with their pride in country. As has been pointed out above, the US doesn’t exactly have clean hands, either.

Oh, yeah, one more thing: I get tired of hearing endlessly about human rights abuses in China (which, admittedly, do exist and should be addressed–by Chinese people) from a country with the highest incarceration rate in the world–seven times higher than, uh, China (though that’s a disputed figure, I doubt they could top you). Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration#Incarceration_rates_by_country

(Hah, I wrote ‘highest incarceration rate in the _free_ world’…but that turned out to be unnecessary. Highest in the world, full stop.)

Most of those record-setting incarcerations involve consenting adults using recreational drugs–particularly marijuana, a harmless little houseplant with no significant side effects. But that’s not a human rights issue, that’s protecting people from themselves through endorsed prison rape! I can taste the freedom from here.

I’m not a US-hater, there’s a ton of stuff to like about you guys. I’m not an apologist for the Chinese, they have deep problems that they’re gonna have to face. But most of what you’ve got going on here is xenophobia, and it’s hypocritical. The Chinese are not nearly as bad, nor are you nearly as pure, as you’d like to believe.

I love their quality despite this habit; it’s sort of like a beloved uncle that likes Gilbert and Sullivan.

Domestic Chinese population experts admit that the Chinese government continues to persecute women who exceed their allotted quota of children. Any woman who has more than her quota faces heavy “social compensation fees”–up to ten times annual household income in China–and often the following: loss of employment, loss of some health care coverage and educational opportunities for her children, imprisonment, forced abortion, and legally mandated sterilization. Her husband faces the same with the exception of the last two. Does the United States do this?

But hey, there is no better political statement about the rise of the PRC than cashing in on it as a consumer driven event.

Ugly/expensive collectors item anyhow

I don’t mean to say that China is perfect or a godsend to Tibet. The actions of China during the cultural revolution were horrific and their continued racism towards Tibetans and dissolution of their culture is shameful. However, Tibet had some very real problems before the PLA invaded the territory. You can support a free Tibet and also recognize that it was never Shangri-La.

nlss y wr tryng t sy tht th PRC s mr sxst thn Tbt ws whn t ws thcrcy? Y stll hv th sss f plyndry nd plygmy whr wmn wr rlgtd t th stts f prprty n bth css.

Just because you’re critical of this product (which I am) doesn’t mean you’re a China hater (which I’m certainly not).

And, conversely, if you don’t know why this is offensive, maybe you should educate yourself and find out! Just a thought.

We all know WHY Leica is doing this. But they could’ve done it better (as in more sensitive esp to the families negatively affected by the harsh policies during Mao’s rule)

Tactless garbage!

Putting it at a price point well beyond the vast majority of Chinese people? Well, if that isn’t emblematic of the state of revolution in China, who knows what is.

More revolutionary: selling/providing cheap video cameras with efficient means of distributing the digital recordings.

But I love how the camera looks anyway. It’s like a toy that probably takes better pictures than my G9.

One of the main political factions in the US is like Cartman. The other is more like Butters.

Giant Mao posters celebrate our Glonous History And Cultual!

As to the one child policy, its varied enforcement depending on location makes it hard to say anything absolutely, but in rural areas its undeniably sexist, intentionally or not. Forced abortions and/or sterilizations though, from what I can find occur at the local level and are supposed to be banned. So it’s a question of neglect on the part of the national government. Is this neglect gender based or class based? I’m don’t know, and I’d guess that both were at play. In this regard though, can you honestly say that the US Federal government isn’t neglectful of social problems in the farm belt?

Finally as to US forced sterilizations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell

That made the practice pretty popular for a while and those laws are still on the books.

Again: I don’t think that China is a utopia. It’s a corrupt government run by and for the benefit of a wealthy elite at the expense of the rest of its citizens. However, much the same can be said of the United States and to act otherwise seems ethnocentric to me.

Nice snaps of wedding parties being blown to bits..
The AT&T corporation’s (sorry that’s *citizen* not corporation) building where they wire tap us…
Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, the entire profit driven prison economy….
Would need all the time in the world to list all rest…

As to Hal’s question, would I rather live under the systemic state violence of China or the systemic state violence of America, well, it’s a little bit like asking if I want to get raped or get robbed. I suppose I’d take the latter, but I’d rather choose “none of the above.”