Comments on: School used student laptop webcams to spy on them at school and home http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 16:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716032 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716032 While it is unlikely, I am hoping that the vice-principal in question was of the view that this was invasion of privacy, and intentionally took the action in an effort to bring the practice to light. Call me an optimist. That said, throw the book at them. While it is unlikely, I am hoping that the vice-principal in question was of the view that this was invasion of privacy, and intentionally took the action in an effort to bring the practice to light. Call me an optimist.

That said, throw the book at them.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716801 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716801 That's not the teacher using the camera. The teacher is monitoring the DESKTOP and the children are using some program named Photobooth in order to see themselves. If they didn't have that program on then the faculty wouldn't be able to see anything from the camera. Perhaps that's what has happened in the case being reported - the kid was doing who knows what when the teacher activated the desktop and saw it? That said - the teacher also demonstrated being able to take control of the far end computer when he took a picture using the app on the students desktop. If the teacher can do that then he can likely also launch or load programs remotely that WOULD allow for images to be gathered. That’s not the teacher using the camera. The teacher is monitoring the DESKTOP and the children are using some program named Photobooth in order to see themselves. If they didn’t have that program on then the faculty wouldn’t be able to see anything from the camera. Perhaps that’s what has happened in the case being reported – the kid was doing who knows what when the teacher activated the desktop and saw it?

That said – the teacher also demonstrated being able to take control of the far end computer when he took a picture using the app on the students desktop. If the teacher can do that then he can likely also launch or load programs remotely that WOULD allow for images to be gathered.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716290 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716290 Wow. As a frequent laptop masturbator this is disturbing. Wow. As a frequent laptop masturbator this is disturbing.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716802 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716802 Good thing the laptop I got from my cyberschool doesn't have a webcam. Although I think I'm going to stop leaving my microphone plugged in, so I don't get expelled for my taste in music. Good thing the laptop I got from my cyberschool doesn’t have a webcam. Although I think I’m going to stop leaving my microphone plugged in, so I don’t get expelled for my taste in music.

]]> By: zio_donnie http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-717058 zio_donnie Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-717058 imagine the dialogue: "good evening this is vice principal Dumbass" "good evening" "i would like to inform you that your son was masturbating and smoking pot while using his school issued laptop" "WHAAAAAATTTTTTTT he did that in school? OMFG!!!" " Ehmmm. Well no. Actually he did that last night in his bedroom but i thought you should know. Also nice wallpaper you got there." " How do YOU know what my son was doing in HIS bedroom?" " Ehm well i was looking for terrorists and drugs on school property and i happened to check your son's webcam" " Ah ok. I thought you were just spying, but i guess that protecting school macbooks from improper use and terrorists by any means necessary is totally what school VPs do." imagine the dialogue:

“good evening this is vice principal Dumbass”

“good evening”

“i would like to inform you that your son was masturbating and smoking pot while using his school issued laptop”

“WHAAAAAATTTTTTTT he did that in school? OMFG!!!”

” Ehmmm. Well no. Actually he did that last night in his bedroom but i thought you should know. Also nice wallpaper you got there.”

” How do YOU know what my son was doing in HIS bedroom?”

” Ehm well i was looking for terrorists and drugs on school property and i happened to check your son’s webcam”

” Ah ok. I thought you were just spying, but i guess that protecting school macbooks from improper use and terrorists by any means necessary is totally what school VPs do.”

]]> By: angryhippo http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716035 angryhippo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716035 I'm sure there was some legalese buried in the user agreement that gives them enough wiggle room in a lawsuit. GAFFER'S TAPE! I’m sure there was some legalese buried in the user agreement that gives them enough wiggle room in a lawsuit. GAFFER’S TAPE!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716803 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716803 To all of you "simple: format/reinstall" people, it's not that easy. When you were that age, did you have windows and/or linux cds lying around? Ask the nearest 14 year old girl if she knows what a bios flash is. If you do not (and/or cannot) install linux, are you prepared to pay hundreds of dollars for windows, office, etc? And quite possibly have to surrender the machine once officials realize it's been doctored? This is NOT something that "could easily have been avoided by the victims". Or do you scan every christmas present you've ever received from trusted parties for bugs, poisons, traps, etc? To all of you “simple: format/reinstall” people, it’s not that easy. When you were that age, did you have windows and/or linux cds lying around? Ask the nearest 14 year old girl if she knows what a bios flash is. If you do not (and/or cannot) install linux, are you prepared to pay hundreds of dollars for windows, office, etc? And quite possibly have to surrender the machine once officials realize it’s been doctored?

This is NOT something that “could easily have been avoided by the victims”. Or do you scan every christmas present you’ve ever received from trusted parties for bugs, poisons, traps, etc?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716804 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716804 I am a student at Harriton high school (one of the two high schools in the Lower Merion School District). I am actually posting this comment with one of the laptops in question. The "tech guys" have always said that there is definitely surveillance software on the computer, but it is only to be used of the computer is "lost or stolen." According to this single kid (and his parents), he was spied on, while his computer was obviously not "lost or stolen." There is a green light next to the cameras, and a few months ago mine turned on inexplicably. It lasted for about 2 days, even after i removed the battery and put it back. I just used a piece of black tape. But obviously, a program was using the camera. I'm not exactly sure who has access to the survalence software, but all the tech guys have administrator passwords. That might mean (i'm actually assuming here) that any administrator could log onto their computer, and access the survalence system. I think it is very unlikely that the school's administration was involved in this violation of privacy. Although, according to this one person, he was "diciplined." If we believe him completely (and i don't even know him, he goes to the other school), then some administrator took this way too far. But if the school gets sued, who pays for that? The principal? No, the TAXPAYERS. A civil lawsuit makes absolutely no sense in this situation. The people responsible are not going to lose one penny out of their pockets. My parents will. I am a student at Harriton high school (one of the two high schools in the Lower Merion School District). I am actually posting this comment with one of the laptops in question. The “tech guys” have always said that there is definitely surveillance software on the computer, but it is only to be used of the computer is “lost or stolen.” According to this single kid (and his parents), he was spied on, while his computer was obviously not “lost or stolen.” There is a green light next to the cameras, and a few months ago mine turned on inexplicably. It lasted for about 2 days, even after i removed the battery and put it back. I just used a piece of black tape. But obviously, a program was using the camera. I’m not exactly sure who has access to the survalence software, but all the tech guys have administrator passwords. That might mean (i’m actually assuming here) that any administrator could log onto their computer, and access the survalence system. I think it is very unlikely that the school’s administration was involved in this violation of privacy. Although, according to this one person, he was “diciplined.” If we believe him completely (and i don’t even know him, he goes to the other school), then some administrator took this way too far.

But if the school gets sued, who pays for that? The principal? No, the TAXPAYERS. A civil lawsuit makes absolutely no sense in this situation. The people responsible are not going to lose one penny out of their pockets. My parents will.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-717317 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-717317 This is gone too FAR! This is gone too FAR!

]]> By: Xopher http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716806 Xopher Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716806 Aha. That makes everything make sense. Aha. That makes everything make sense.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716039 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716039 this is a violation of civil rights and these people have to be prosecuted. who do they think they are? they should be canned, sued and jailed, period, no discussion. this is a violation of civil rights and these people have to be prosecuted. who do they think they are? they should be canned, sued and jailed, period, no discussion.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716040 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716040 Don't forget that microphones are accessible as well. Electrical tape only takes you so far. Well. What did you all expect? StudentsHaveNoConstitutionalRights+TotalInformationAwarenessIsOK+WeCanDoAnythingWeWantWeOwnIt+JustGetOverIt = Cameras secretly accessible from outside administrators. Americans surrendered their 9th Amendment guarantees of rights not enumerated, so you only have business contracts, EULAs, and petty tyrants that can grant you privacy. Don't like it? Take it all back, the cameras, the searches, the drug laws that are the base of all this madness. Get used to a society less safe but as free as it always was before we panicked like cattle. Don’t forget that microphones are accessible as well. Electrical tape only takes you so far.

Well. What did you all expect?

StudentsHaveNoConstitutionalRights+TotalInformationAwarenessIsOK+WeCanDoAnythingWeWantWeOwnIt+JustGetOverIt = Cameras secretly accessible from outside administrators. Americans surrendered their 9th Amendment guarantees of rights not enumerated, so you only have business contracts, EULAs, and petty tyrants that can grant you privacy. Don’t like it? Take it all back, the cameras, the searches, the drug laws that are the base of all this madness. Get used to a society less safe but as free as it always was before we panicked like cattle.

]]> By: lademonessa http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-717320 lademonessa Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-717320 It doesn't matter if the kid deserved to be punished or not, that's not the point. The point is that he was being spied on without a warrant or parental permission. If the school can do this because Blake was a pothead and a jerk and it's acceptable then what's to stop, say, the government from saying, 'We're tossing the Constitution because in order to catch terrorists everyone's rights needs to---" Wait. Oh yeah, we did that already. What I want to know is what kind of future are we cultivating? Today's kids have no rights, have to wear uniforms, have no opportunity for self-expression, have no arts or music classes--is this Generation Z for Zombie? It doesn’t matter if the kid deserved to be punished or not, that’s not the point. The point is that he was being spied on without a warrant or parental permission. If the school can do this because Blake was a pothead and a jerk and it’s acceptable then what’s to stop, say, the government from saying, ‘We’re tossing the Constitution because in order to catch terrorists everyone’s rights needs to—” Wait. Oh yeah, we did that already. What I want to know is what kind of future are we cultivating? Today’s kids have no rights, have to wear uniforms, have no opportunity for self-expression, have no arts or music classes–is this Generation Z for Zombie?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716041 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716041 Isn't this a crime? I mean, a ”peeping tom“ might face charges, no? Isn’t this a crime? I mean, a ”peeping tom“ might face charges, no?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716297 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716297 If the laptop is set up with a VPN connection, then even at home, it would effectively still be on the school network. If you really are a school IT person, I'm not impressed with the caliber of people they are hiring. If the laptop is set up with a VPN connection, then even at home, it would effectively still be on the school network. If you really are a school IT person, I’m not impressed with the caliber of people they are hiring.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716553 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716553 Why are you assuming all the kids were naked? Why are you assuming all the kids were naked?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716554 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716554 If they have so much as one pic of a minor in a sexualized situation -- and if they've been using this remote webcam activation while the computers are at home, images of gherkin-jerkin and such are practically inevitable -- it's good for five-to-life, intent or no intent. If they have so much as one pic of a minor in a sexualized situation — and if they’ve been using this remote webcam activation while the computers are at home, images of gherkin-jerkin and such are practically inevitable — it’s good for five-to-life, intent or no intent.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-717322 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-717322 I think another disturbing part is that the child involved was called into question for something he did at home. In no way, shape or form do I want my childs school to get involved in their lives outside fo school. At my high school there was a "Good conduct policy". Which stated that if a student was caught doing anything unfulfilling of the schools images, outside of school they could be excluded from extra caricular activities. I don't apperciate the notion that the public sector wants to control or raise our children. And it seems like with most social services, schools are forgetting what they were orignally established for, I think another disturbing part is that the child involved was called into question for something he did at home. In no way, shape or form do I want my childs school to get involved in their lives outside fo school. At my high school there was a “Good conduct policy”. Which stated that if a student was caught doing anything unfulfilling of the schools images, outside of school they could be excluded from extra caricular activities.
I don’t apperciate the notion that the public sector wants to control or raise our children. And it seems like with most social services, schools are forgetting what they were orignally established for,

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716044 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716044 I've never felt the need to comment before...but i do now... i'm going back to school to become a teacher, and i find this disturbing and disgusting...the above comments about Little Brother flash-backs hit it right on the head... I’ve never felt the need to comment before…but i do now… i’m going back to school to become a teacher, and i find this disturbing and disgusting…the above comments about Little Brother flash-backs hit it right on the head…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716556 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716556 The Vice Principal and everyone else involved should be prosecuted for promulgating child pornography. They were purposefully taking pictures of kids without their knowledge, in their homes, and the fact that some of them would have the laptops in their rooms and be in various states of undress is totally inevitable and totally obvious - and therefore this was clearly deliberate. Every single person who knew about and permitted covert surveillance of people in their own homes should be in prison and put on a sex offenders list, because that's what they are. The Vice Principal and everyone else involved should be prosecuted for promulgating child pornography. They were purposefully taking pictures of kids without their knowledge, in their homes, and the fact that some of them would have the laptops in their rooms and be in various states of undress is totally inevitable and totally obvious – and therefore this was clearly deliberate.

Every single person who knew about and permitted covert surveillance of people in their own homes should be in prison and put on a sex offenders list, because that’s what they are.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716301 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716301 The School categorically denies any use of the cameras for any use other than finding lost or stolen laptops. They believe it goes against everything they stand for as a school district. I go to Harriton, a school of LMSD, and one where the kid goes currently. The School categorically denies any use of the cameras for any use other than finding lost or stolen laptops. They believe it goes against everything they stand for as a school district.

I go to Harriton, a school of LMSD, and one where the kid goes currently.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-717325 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-717325 I am a technology teacher in a school in a high school and read this to my class. This is very important to our community because we all have MacBooks we take home with us every night. The following is synthesized about the class discussion written by two different students. It is hard to explain exactly what they (the Lower Merion School District) did, but what they did is illegal. This (spying on the students) is illegal because they are going through your personal internet (connection). The fact that they are virtually spying through the webcam is breaking the wire tap laws. Even though it (the laptops) is there property they can’t spy on you (a student / user). They (landlords) cannot put a camera in an apartment you rent and cameras are not legal in public classrooms. So how is it that they (the Lower Merion School District) can look at students though the computers? This would not be as illegal if they (the Lower Merion School District) provided the students with the internet (like a wireless connection usb attachment). But this is still a wire tap. We as a group of 9th graders that have school laptops at home everyday find this information shocking. Them (the Lower Merion School District) doing this is like a landlord putting cameras in an apartment. It is illegal, dirty and wrong. It is not the school’s network, therefore what they (the Lower Merion School District) are doing is hacking. But, then again, the school should be able to access the laptops but there has to be a limit. Keep the laptops at school, change the acceptable use policy to let students know the spyware is on the computer, limit the student access. Laptops given out by a school are educational tools and should be use as one, but that is still not a reason to spy on students I am a technology teacher in a school in a high school and read this to my class. This is very important to our community because we all have MacBooks we take home with us every night. The following is synthesized about the class discussion written by two different students.

It is hard to explain exactly what they (the Lower Merion School District) did, but what they did is illegal. This (spying on the students) is illegal because they are going through your personal internet (connection). The fact that they are virtually spying through the webcam is breaking the wire tap laws. Even though it (the laptops) is there property they can’t spy on you (a student / user). They (landlords) cannot put a camera in an apartment you rent and cameras are not legal in public classrooms. So how is it that they (the Lower Merion School District) can look at students though the computers? This would not be as illegal if they (the Lower Merion School District) provided the students with the internet (like a wireless connection usb attachment). But this is still a wire tap.

We as a group of 9th graders that have school laptops at home everyday find this information shocking. Them (the Lower Merion School District) doing this is like a landlord putting cameras in an apartment. It is illegal, dirty and wrong. It is not the school’s network, therefore what they (the Lower Merion School District) are doing is hacking. But, then again, the school should be able to access the laptops but there has to be a limit. Keep the laptops at school, change the acceptable use policy to let students know the spyware is on the computer, limit the student access. Laptops given out by a school are educational tools and should be use as one, but that is still not a reason to spy on students

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716046 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716046 Splenax, I am pretty positive that you are mistaken. The child porn laws are pretty stringent, in fact, only one step bellow terrorism in importance. You could be on an email list, get a pornographic photo of a youth in that list while at work, maybe even merely look at it and end up in prison if you don't clean out that internet cache immediately. The government doesn't really care if you actually used it for sexual purposes (report it to the FBI immediately to protect yourself). This happens more often than you think and peoples lives have been ruined by it!!! That brings me to one of many aspects of this story that is outrageous. How do we know that this wasn't done for sexual purposes? Inappropriate Captcha: of thumping Splenax, I am pretty positive that you are mistaken. The child porn laws are pretty stringent, in fact, only one step bellow terrorism in importance. You could be on an email list, get a pornographic photo of a youth in that list while at work, maybe even merely look at it and end up in prison if you don’t clean out that internet cache immediately. The government doesn’t really care if you actually used it for sexual purposes (report it to the FBI immediately to protect yourself). This happens more often than you think and peoples lives have been ruined by it!!!

That brings me to one of many aspects of this story that is outrageous. How do we know that this wasn’t done for sexual purposes?

Inappropriate Captcha: of thumping

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716302 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716302 There is software available that screen captures if a word on a "bad word" list appears on screen, or an image with an "inappropriate" amount of skin tones. This software can run on a machine off the network, and the log of access and screen captures are uploaded to the server when the machine re-connects. There is software available that screen captures if a word on a “bad word” list appears on screen, or an image with an “inappropriate” amount of skin tones. This software can run on a machine off the network, and the log of access and screen captures are uploaded to the server when the machine re-connects.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716048 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716048 This is what happens when police and others in authority persist in getting away with egregious behavior, which creates a moral hazard that can spread to anybody else who believes themselves to be defined by a similar authority. It's "what about the children?" taken to perverse extremes, allowing school administrators to actually answer that question whenever they may be asked. What about the children? "Feeding the fish, at the moment." This is what happens when police and others in authority persist in getting away with egregious behavior, which creates a moral hazard that can spread to anybody else who believes themselves to be defined by a similar authority. It’s “what about the children?” taken to perverse extremes, allowing school administrators to actually answer that question whenever they may be asked. What about the children? “Feeding the fish, at the moment.”

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716816 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716816 These creepy people have your children all day long... These creepy people have your children all day long…

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716818 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716818 I'm trying to figure out something... What good is taking a picture if a computer is stolen? It doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the thief, the current user, or the location. I feel like there are hundreds of better options out there for recovering stolen goods (checking IP address, using a GPS or other tracking device, etc) I’m trying to figure out something…

What good is taking a picture if a computer is stolen? It doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about the thief, the current user, or the location.

I feel like there are hundreds of better options out there for recovering stolen goods (checking IP address, using a GPS or other tracking device, etc)

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716051 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716051 I want to know what her "offense" was. I want to know what her “offense” was.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716564 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716564 That is seriously creepy. Watching kids at home? That's a huge invasion of privacy! And what gets me (past the obviously WRONG) is the fact that the Vice Principal used the footage to disciple a child! Come on! Once you're out of school and off of school property, the school has no right to punish you for anything you do! Nor should they even have a say in what you do! (past homework, which they can only encourage or fail you for). It's the parents job to keep the kid in line in the home hours of the day, not the schools!!! That is seriously creepy. Watching kids at home? That’s a huge invasion of privacy! And what gets me (past the obviously WRONG) is the fact that the Vice Principal used the footage to disciple a child! Come on! Once you’re out of school and off of school property, the school has no right to punish you for anything you do! Nor should they even have a say in what you do! (past homework, which they can only encourage or fail you for). It’s the parents job to keep the kid in line in the home hours of the day, not the schools!!!

]]> By: KilgoreTrout XL http://boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html#comment-716820 KilgoreTrout XL Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-716820 I'm nominating Mac for Astroturfer #2. I’m nominating Mac for Astroturfer #2.

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