Morals are for the brave of heart, I guess. Sleep tight.

The US tortures folks
The US destroyed the global economy
The US treats foreign visitors like crap
The US locks its own citizens up at a rate greater than China

Umm…yeah. We’re the Evil Empire. We’re the baddies. Next stop, skulls on our military uniforms. Oh…wait….

Marines – http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/1st_Recon_Bn_Color.jpg/200px-1st_Recon_Bn_Color.jpg

Navy – http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/VF-84_USN_squadron_patch.png/150px-VF-84_USN_squadron_patch.png

Army – http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b0/2-135_Blackjacks_GSAB_insignia.jpg/300px-2-135_Blackjacks_GSAB_insignia.jpg

All we need now is to move the White House to a remote island with a volcano.

As having been a subject of waterboarding (as part of my military training), I assure you that I would have said anything, made up anything or sold out anyone under the most limited duress of this kind (I only had to endure about five minutes of it. I can’t imagine repeated sessions). It’s quite ineffective at discerning “useful intelligence” over the long haul. I find it deplorable that we continue to enact these sorts of barbaric methods and parade our own values as noble. It’s a sad state of affairs when so many Americans live in such abject fear that they’d turn a blind eye to torture.

So tell me, what if that was your son, your brother, your father….you?

To be scooped up, beaten, tortured so badly that your muscles begin to liquefy, and asked repeatedly questions about things that you have no knowledge?

I’m sorry, it may even get be disemvoweled, but you are a HORRIBLE human being and are everything that the US is supposed to stand against.

I know a lot of Americans do not want to face up to the fact that this IS torture, and it IS evil, they’re like a mother doesn’t want to admit that her son is a criminal and murderer– “No, not MY son, he’s a GOOD boy!” It’s a horrible blow to our egos and self-image to realize that we have become something reprehensible, but the sooner we admit it the better.

This brings up stickier issues. Binyam Mohamed, a UK resident, was tortured under the watch (or assistance) of British intelligence officers, and he is using the UK government for their complicity in his torture. Unfortunately, Obama is sticking with a Bush threat that if the UK releases evidence of our torture in their courts we will cut off intelligence sharing with them – this threat was publicly delivered by Hillary Clinton to the British foreign Secretary (The Foreign Secretary then ordered Mohamed’s trial shut down for national security reasons). So instead of “not having time for” trials of American war crimes, instead of “stepping aside and letting the judicial system work”, Obama is actively involved in the cover-up of our war crimes. And as we learned form Nixon, the cover-up is just as bad as the crime itself.

But what about actually doing something – join a human rights organization (Amnesty International works internationally against torture), at least write a pile of letters. Donate to groups that oppose torture.

Speak up folks, while we can!

Besides, the crimes of another nation are never a valid excuse ever.

From the article:

“U.S. soldiers, for example, were generally waterboarded with a cloth over their face one time, never more than twice, for about 20 seconds, the CIA admits in its own documents.”

I spent a few minutes on the board (not tilted back from what I remember, as I’ve read in other accounts), and the actual duration of my dousings (at least two) were probably around the 20 second mark in total. I did in fact have a cloth over my face, first only over my mouth, and then over my mouth and nose.

I lasted longer than I’ve heard in other published accounts, but there were people in my class that lasted longer than me. Rather than give away any “secrets,” I tried to break the leather straps that were holding my wrists and ankles. That didn’t last long as the panic set in very quickly, so I gave them my Social Security number.

At some point during our training, we were told that our experiences were to show us what we might face if captured, and it was stressed that these were things the US wouldn’t do to enemy POWs because we didn’t want our own to be exposed to it. I do think it was a valuable experience and should be continued, in its toned-down version, for training purposes. To be honest, I’m glad I went through the experience that one time. It was a good test of my intestinal fortitude. As for using it for real, I’d say no. It’s torture, and as a country, we tend to think of ourselves as rising above the rest.

I was raised to believe the US was different, better, more civilized than the rest of the world. That we were a shining example that would lift the rest of the world by example.

Look at the link to the American soldiers in the Philippines above. The soldiers are smiling and laughing while torturing a man. They are having fun.

Stanley Milgram is right. We are all capable of evil, and evil starts at 15 volts (minor acts).

The UK has already released it. The White House released a statement expressing its disappointment, and they’re still making the same threat.

Could someone point me to the source documents though? I read the article on Salon a didn’t see any links to the CIA docs that were cited. I don’t have a difficult time believing that this was documented, but it’s hard to get too outraged without the primary source. Any help?

And you miss the point that it does not matter what the rest of the world does or did. It’s good to see that you know it’s wrong but regardless of who did what where before, during or after us it is still wrong and EVIL. And guess what, under Shrub legitimate representatives of our country did evil. Does that make the whole country evil? No. But neither was all of Germany evil in WWII, just the neocons… er, Nazis.

I love America and hate to see it taken over by men and women of bad intent. That people are putting roadblocks in the way of prosecution of those involved in this when there was not excuse for it ever AND that people still defend this shows just how far towards full-on fascism this country has slipped. And I love America enough to point at that to defend what good there is left here.