Comments on: Militant arm of the infoviz movement gets serious about PowerPoint http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Wed, 22 May 2013 04:04:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: ratcity http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740366 ratcity Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740366 Is this supposed to be ironic? The image looks like a powerpoint slide to me. I could make that slide just as quickly in powerpoint as I could in omnigraffle. Is this supposed to be ironic? The image looks like a powerpoint slide to me. I could make that slide just as quickly in powerpoint as I could in omnigraffle.

]]> By: Terry http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740369 Terry Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740369 So, if I create a PowerPoint presentation in a virtual machine, will Tufte kill Schrödinger's cat? So, if I create a PowerPoint presentation in a virtual machine, will Tufte kill Schrödinger’s cat?

]]> By: Halloween Jack http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740115 Halloween Jack Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740115 edward tufte is hard like a motherfucker edward tufte is hard like a motherfucker

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-742419 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-742419 Very similar joke/idea to a video campaign made by these guys 3 years ago, and uploaded to youtube 2 years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xocPtKaRcD8 but still funny. Very similar joke/idea to a video campaign made by these guys 3 years ago, and uploaded to youtube 2 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xocPtKaRcD8

but still funny.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-742423 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-742423 and then this guy originally had the idea, in 2002, on Fark.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_time_you_masturbate..._God_kills_a_kitten and then this guy originally had the idea, in 2002, on Fark.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Every_time_you_masturbate…_God_kills_a_kitten

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740377 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740377 I stopped taking Tufte seriously once I read his thoughts on figures. He believes, among other ideas, that they should never be numbered, since you could always imply what figure is being referred to by layout. In serious publications, the author is rarely responsible for layout; and also it is often essential to be able to refer to a figure with a simple label like "Figure 1" rather than "that graph under the paragraph about the...". Tufte is a bright, creative guy, with a lot of unconventional ideas; however where communication is the goal, relentless conventionality allows your audience to focus on the content itself. I stopped taking Tufte seriously once I read his thoughts on figures. He believes, among other ideas, that they should never be numbered, since you could always imply what figure is being referred to by layout. In serious publications, the author is rarely responsible for layout; and also it is often essential to be able to refer to a figure with a simple label like “Figure 1″ rather than “that graph under the paragraph about the…”. Tufte is a bright, creative guy, with a lot of unconventional ideas; however where communication is the goal, relentless conventionality allows your audience to focus on the content itself.

]]> By: Chas44 http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740122 Chas44 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740122 Great! This scheme saves me tons of time in my kitten-killing campaign. Great! This scheme saves me tons of time in my kitten-killing campaign.

]]> By: blurgh http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740137 blurgh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740137 Oh, the irony of transforming such a nice piece of vector graphics about information visualisation to jpg. Mmm, artifacts. Oh, the irony of transforming such a nice piece of vector graphics about information visualisation to jpg. Mmm, artifacts.

]]> By: Daemon http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740139 Daemon Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740139 Powerpoint: absolutely never a good idea. Powerpoint: absolutely never a good idea.

]]> By: crikeycreek http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740141 crikeycreek Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740141 So hard to avoid Powerpoint, yet so funny. So hard to avoid Powerpoint, yet so funny.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740143 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740143 Aaaanndd that would be why I use Keynote. Aaaanndd that would be why I use Keynote.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740404 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740404 Shouldn't Tufte be strangling the kittens with sparklines or something? Shouldn’t Tufte be strangling the kittens with sparklines or something?

]]> By: Doug Nelson http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740149 Doug Nelson Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740149 I must be uncool, because I have no freaking idea who Edward Tufte is. I must be uncool, because I have no freaking idea who Edward Tufte is.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740155 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740155 Especially if you prefer to say that than to just Google him (or Google "tufte powerpoint"). Especially if you prefer to say that than to just Google him (or Google “tufte powerpoint”).

]]> By: hadlock http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740156 hadlock Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740156 No kidding, you'd save a crapload(hound?) of bandwidth by hosting this as a .png or even a .gif, while eliminating the compression artifacts at the same time. You might have some youtube embedding ninjas, but your image compression-fu is weak. No kidding, you’d save a crapload(hound?) of bandwidth by hosting this as a .png or even a .gif, while eliminating the compression artifacts at the same time.

You might have some youtube embedding ninjas, but your image compression-fu is weak.

]]> By: Felixs http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-741184 Felixs Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-741184 Powerpoint is mostly a bad thing when people use it to cover up their inability to marshal facts properly in a clear, logical manner. I've seen many presentations that were bad in Powerpoint and would still have been bad had the content been given to a designer to make pretty or had it been put in a more sophisticated presentation medium. Too many people fail to plan before embarking on shoving their thoughts into the PC. This is aggravated by the limitations of powerpoint as a program, the way it seems to impose a particular way of thinking on the user and the unwillingness of anyone to learn the program. It's not just Powerpoint that suffers from this. People seem to be encouraged to think that they can do a decent job on many programs without investing time in getting past the basic user stage. Hence a proliferation of graphic designs that are easy to do in illustrator or photoshop. (But neither original nor appropriate). Products with shapes that are easier in SolidWorks. Templated Dreamweaver sites. Rubbish Powerpoints. If the fundamental thinking hasn't been done, it's no good expecting the result to be good just because it's been easy to do and you haven't learned more than the basics. If you take the time to learn powerpoint, it's quite surprising what can actually be achieved, especially on Mac OS, which has better numerical control than Vista. The typography is nearly always poor, but in presenting an argument, the content is what counts and there are intelligent ways to use these basic tools to get clear, cogent and understandable information across. The worst thing about MS program is the way there's so much crap on screen helping you, thinking for you, making it "easy" when it's doing quite the opposite. But a clean powerpoint, well expressed and devoid of effects can be appropriate, intelligent and easy to understand. Powerpoint is mostly a bad thing when people use it to cover up their inability to marshal facts properly in a clear, logical manner. I’ve seen many presentations that were bad in Powerpoint and would still have been bad had the content been given to a designer to make pretty or had it been put in a more sophisticated presentation medium. Too many people fail to plan before embarking on shoving their thoughts into the PC. This is aggravated by the limitations of powerpoint as a program, the way it seems to impose a particular way of thinking on the user and the unwillingness of anyone to learn the program.

It’s not just Powerpoint that suffers from this. People seem to be encouraged to think that they can do a decent job on many programs without investing time in getting past the basic user stage. Hence a proliferation of graphic designs that are easy to do in illustrator or photoshop. (But neither original nor appropriate). Products with shapes that are easier in SolidWorks. Templated Dreamweaver sites. Rubbish Powerpoints. If the fundamental thinking hasn’t been done, it’s no good expecting the result to be good just because it’s been easy to do and you haven’t learned more than the basics.

If you take the time to learn powerpoint, it’s quite surprising what can actually be achieved, especially on Mac OS, which has better numerical control than Vista. The typography is nearly always poor, but in presenting an argument, the content is what counts and there are intelligent ways to use these basic tools to get clear, cogent and understandable information across.

The worst thing about MS program is the way there’s so much crap on screen helping you, thinking for you, making it “easy” when it’s doing quite the opposite. But a clean powerpoint, well expressed and devoid of effects can be appropriate, intelligent and easy to understand.

]]> By: djn http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740161 djn Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740161 He's famous in certain circles for his writings on how to present information clearly. More directly relevant, he's also the author of <i>The Cognitive Style of PowerPoint</i> , an essay on the evils of PP. There's a short summary in the wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte">article</a> on him. He’s famous in certain circles for his writings on how to present information clearly.

More directly relevant, he’s also the author of The Cognitive Style of PowerPoint , an essay on the evils of PP. There’s a short summary in the wikipedia article on him.

]]> By: jimh http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740167 jimh Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740167 Now, now. Surely you can do better than "save tons of time". Let's see a graphic display of that quantity along with at least two other variable factors. The dead kittens deserve as much consideration, don't you agree? Now, now. Surely you can do better than “save tons of time”. Let’s see a graphic display of that quantity along with at least two other variable factors. The dead kittens deserve as much consideration, don’t you agree?

]]> By: dainel http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740170 dainel Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740170 If I modify an existing powerpoint file, and save it with a new name, does he kill the same kitten again. Or does he lone it first. If I modify an existing powerpoint file, and save it with a new name, does he kill the same kitten again. Or does he lone it first.

]]> By: dainel http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740171 dainel Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740171 stick "c", that should be clone. stick “c”, that should be clone.

]]> By: peterbruells http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740690 peterbruells Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740690 Seems to me that his point is „serious publications are broken, if they do not allow an author to layout his paper to the best effect“, not „figures should not be numbered.“ Seems to me that his point is „serious publications are broken, if they do not allow an author to layout his paper to the best effect“, not „figures should not be numbered.“

]]> By: lefthandrighthand http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740179 lefthandrighthand Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740179 the artifacts are completely hilarious. the artifacts are completely hilarious.

]]> By: joenukem http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740186 joenukem Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740186 My PPT is a little short. Would it be ok if I use this slide? My PPT is a little short. Would it be ok if I use this slide?

]]> By: kattw http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740187 kattw Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740187 You know, the funny thing is, I've seen many slides designed by Tufte, and I think a lot of them are entirely too convoluted to be at all useful. Basically, they're the best possible way to display information... if you're E. Tufte, or an initiate to the E. Tufte school of information trasmission. Powerpoint isn't inherently evil. People used to use slides all the time - they were merely handwritten on transparencies, or drawn up in a wordprocessor, or whatever. Yeah, a lot of people are terrible at getting information across, but that's not a powerpoint problem. If anything, the slide being shot at looks pretty good, design wise. 3 single line semi-sentences summarizing the slide and two large graphics taking up half the total space. If they guy was pointing to a figure, rather than a word, one could argue he was even presenting it reasonably well, too. You know, the funny thing is, I’ve seen many slides designed by Tufte, and I think a lot of them are entirely too convoluted to be at all useful. Basically, they’re the best possible way to display information… if you’re E. Tufte, or an initiate to the E. Tufte school of information trasmission.

Powerpoint isn’t inherently evil. People used to use slides all the time – they were merely handwritten on transparencies, or drawn up in a wordprocessor, or whatever. Yeah, a lot of people are terrible at getting information across, but that’s not a powerpoint problem.

If anything, the slide being shot at looks pretty good, design wise. 3 single line semi-sentences summarizing the slide and two large graphics taking up half the total space. If they guy was pointing to a figure, rather than a word, one could argue he was even presenting it reasonably well, too.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-1122142 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1122142 Bahahaha - I like how the kittens are in a line like slides ready to be killed when the presenter hits 'next.' Check out http://prezi.com for an alternative to powerpoint - no slides, just one big canvas you can zoom around on. Bahahaha – I like how the kittens are in a line like slides ready to be killed when the presenter hits ‘next.’

Check out http://prezi.com for an alternative to powerpoint – no slides, just one big canvas you can zoom around on.

]]> By: dhalgren http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740190 dhalgren Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740190 Can we just get to the kitten killing? Only reason I'm here. All this power point smower point stuff doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. So, where are the kittens?!? Can we just get to the kitten killing? Only reason I’m here. All this power point smower point stuff doesn’t mean a hill of beans to me. So, where are the kittens?!?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740958 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740958 I admire Tufte and Few for their 'take no prisoners' attitude on information visualization. I think anyone seeking to change something has to make a stand. It is within that context that I chuckle at some of the attacks on PowerPoint. I have used PowerPoint to communicate an idea just as I have used 'bad English' to communicate an idea. It all depends on the context of the situation what your CUSTOMER needs in the moment. I do strive to ensure my foundational knowledge is built upon the masters and in the case of information visualization, Tufte is one. But, not to a fault. I admire Tufte and Few for their ‘take no prisoners’ attitude on information visualization. I think anyone seeking to change something has to make a stand. It is within that context that I chuckle at some of the attacks on PowerPoint. I have used PowerPoint to communicate an idea just as I have used ‘bad English’ to communicate an idea. It all depends on the context of the situation what your CUSTOMER needs in the moment. I do strive to ensure my foundational knowledge is built upon the masters and in the case of information visualization, Tufte is one. But, not to a fault.

]]> By: oasisob1 http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740197 oasisob1 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740197 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=edward+tufte Also, it just so happens I ALSO kill a kitten every time you make a powerpoint, so... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=edward+tufte

Also, it just so happens I ALSO kill a kitten every time you make a powerpoint, so…

]]> By: holtt http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740201 holtt Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740201 If you like this, see http://flowingdata.com/ Lots of Tufte-friendly and humorous posts on information there. If you like this, see http://flowingdata.com/ Lots of Tufte-friendly and humorous posts on information there.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/03/20/militant-arm-of-the.html#comment-740211 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-740211 Edward Tufte speaks and writes on presenting information clearly. Naturally, his website looks like it was designed by a four year old: http://www.edwardtufte.com At the end of his cult recruitment seminars he likes to show photos of his sculpture garden to his fawning disciples. Edward Tufte speaks and writes on presenting information clearly. Naturally, his website looks like it was designed by a four year old: http://www.edwardtufte.com

At the end of his cult recruitment seminars he likes to show photos of his sculpture garden to his fawning disciples.

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