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	<title>Comments on: Did Nissan (or their ad agency) rip off cut-paper-map artist and Etsy-er Karen O&#039;Leary?&#160;(UPDATED)</title>
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	<description>Brain candy for Happy Mutants</description>
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		<title>By: Maximillian</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742659</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742659</guid>
		<description>Another Paper Cut Map maker: http://www.famillesummerbelle.com/prod_maps.html

Maybe it&#039;s not a big deal that a bunch of people like the style and used it in an ad campaign? Maybe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another Paper Cut Map maker: <a href="http://www.famillesummerbelle.com/prod_maps.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.famillesummerbelle.com/prod_maps.html</a></p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s not a big deal that a bunch of people like the style and used it in an ad campaign? Maybe?</p>
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		<title>By: Church</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742915</link>
		<dc:creator>Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742915</guid>
		<description>Hey, I put characters on screens in the eighties. You all are ripping me off...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I put characters on screens in the eighties. You all are ripping me off&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: weatherman</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743175</link>
		<dc:creator>weatherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743175</guid>
		<description>I wish BB would espouse a consistent position about these sorts of things. It seems every time there is a &quot;little&quot; artist who is mimicked by some corporation, it&#039;s a rip-off/copyright infringement that should be settled by a lawsuit, but when it&#039;s a corporation that is copied by a lesser known (or just more trendy) artist, it&#039;s always portrayed as fair use. Look at the examples here lambasting companies like Sony or Paperchase, or on the other side defending the likes Shepard Fairey. Heck, even Cory&#039;s Little Brother is derivative of a copyrighted work.

I&#039;m not saying that the corporations or right, or that folks like Cory or Shepard are in the wrong (legally or morally) but I am saying that there should be some consistency in the way that these things are viewed here, otherwise it just seems like it&#039;s not a principled stance against overbroad copyright laws, and is instead just a knee-jerk against businesses. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish BB would espouse a consistent position about these sorts of things. It seems every time there is a &#8220;little&#8221; artist who is mimicked by some corporation, it&#8217;s a rip-off/copyright infringement that should be settled by a lawsuit, but when it&#8217;s a corporation that is copied by a lesser known (or just more trendy) artist, it&#8217;s always portrayed as fair use. Look at the examples here lambasting companies like Sony or Paperchase, or on the other side defending the likes Shepard Fairey. Heck, even Cory&#8217;s Little Brother is derivative of a copyrighted work.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that the corporations or right, or that folks like Cory or Shepard are in the wrong (legally or morally) but I am saying that there should be some consistency in the way that these things are viewed here, otherwise it just seems like it&#8217;s not a principled stance against overbroad copyright laws, and is instead just a knee-jerk against businesses. </p>
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		<title>By: jackdavinci</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742664</link>
		<dc:creator>jackdavinci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742664</guid>
		<description>The term &quot;rip off&quot; seriously needs to be retired. Cut-paper is not content, it&#039;s a medium. No one owns ideas, just execution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The term &#8220;rip off&#8221; seriously needs to be retired. Cut-paper is not content, it&#8217;s a medium. No one owns ideas, just execution.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743179</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743179</guid>
		<description>Just for the record...

Nina Katchedourian has been doing these type of cut-out maps for over a decade. 

In addition, even if they were &quot;inspired&quot; by Karen O&#039;Leary, (which they likely were... Creatives at ad agencies &quot;borrow&quot; things all the time. Just like artists.) it&#039;s probably a common-enough paper cut-out that I don&#039;t think anyone can &quot;own&quot; it. It&#039;s called &quot;decoupage&quot;, and it&#039;s an ancient practice. 

http://www.designboom.com/tools/WPro/images/blog13/map3.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for the record&#8230;</p>
<p>Nina Katchedourian has been doing these type of cut-out maps for over a decade. </p>
<p>In addition, even if they were &#8220;inspired&#8221; by Karen O&#8217;Leary, (which they likely were&#8230; Creatives at ad agencies &#8220;borrow&#8221; things all the time. Just like artists.) it&#8217;s probably a common-enough paper cut-out that I don&#8217;t think anyone can &#8220;own&#8221; it. It&#8217;s called &#8220;decoupage&#8221;, and it&#8217;s an ancient practice. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.designboom.com/tools/WPro/images/blog13/map3.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.designboom.com/tools/WPro/images/blog13/map3.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: arkizzle / Moderator</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742668</link>
		<dc:creator>arkizzle / Moderator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742668</guid>
		<description>You calling me a geek?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You calling me a geek?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743185</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743185</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think there is much originality in this type of artwork. Architecture and urban planning students produce diagrammatic models like this quite frequently... and with the advent of laser cutters, hand cutting seems like a waste of time. Having recently finished graduate school, I can say that during my six years of arch. school... I&#039;ve probably produced a site model/plan like this about 5 or 6 times. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there is much originality in this type of artwork. Architecture and urban planning students produce diagrammatic models like this quite frequently&#8230; and with the advent of laser cutters, hand cutting seems like a waste of time. Having recently finished graduate school, I can say that during my six years of arch. school&#8230; I&#8217;ve probably produced a site model/plan like this about 5 or 6 times. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743443</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743443</guid>
		<description>This has similarities to a case in South Africa where BMW settled out of court after ripping off a local artist&#039;s style - also involving maps, though a different technique.

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-10-08-artist-gets-settlement-from-bmw-sa-over-advert

It is not hypocritical to defend the right to appropriate in some circumstances and not others. We shouldn&#039;t be afraid to make value judgements about who is involved, how it is done, and for what purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has similarities to a case in South Africa where BMW settled out of court after ripping off a local artist&#8217;s style &#8211; also involving maps, though a different technique.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-10-08-artist-gets-settlement-from-bmw-sa-over-advert" rel="nofollow">http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-10-08-artist-gets-settlement-from-bmw-sa-over-advert</a></p>
<p>It is not hypocritical to defend the right to appropriate in some circumstances and not others. We shouldn&#8217;t be afraid to make value judgements about who is involved, how it is done, and for what purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: revjaydub</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742936</link>
		<dc:creator>revjaydub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742936</guid>
		<description>Another artist who dissects maps:
http://www.jeffwoodbury.com/gall/gal.cfm?pgid=dissectedmaps</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another artist who dissects maps:<br />
<a href="http://www.jeffwoodbury.com/gall/gal.cfm?pgid=dissectedmaps" rel="nofollow">http://www.jeffwoodbury.com/gall/gal.cfm?pgid=dissectedmaps</a></p>
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		<title>By: dolo54</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742685</link>
		<dc:creator>dolo54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742685</guid>
		<description>&quot;Good artists copy, great artists steal.&quot; Intellectual Property has as much credence as we give it, like money, symbols or language. As an artist I&#039;m not sure I&#039;ve ever had an entirely original thought. I&#039;m quite sure I&#039;ve been &quot;inspired&quot; by many others that came before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Good artists copy, great artists steal.&#8221; Intellectual Property has as much credence as we give it, like money, symbols or language. As an artist I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;ve ever had an entirely original thought. I&#8217;m quite sure I&#8217;ve been &#8220;inspired&#8221; by many others that came before.</p>
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		<title>By: thequickbrownfox</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743456</link>
		<dc:creator>thequickbrownfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743456</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Artists_Rights_Act
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Artists_Rights_Act" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Artists_Rights_Act</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742689</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742689</guid>
		<description>Now here Grey (London) truly do rip off artist Simon Faithfull in the Toshiba space ballon advert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efmL3W2dPjk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now here Grey (London) truly do rip off artist Simon Faithfull in the Toshiba space ballon advert</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efmL3W2dPjk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efmL3W2dPjk</a></p>
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		<title>By: aldous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743204</link>
		<dc:creator>aldous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743204</guid>
		<description>A few years ago the architect Lebbeus Woods sued the producers of &quot;12 Monkeys&quot; for including a design element in their film (an interrogation chair) that was clearly lifted from Woods&#039; published illustrations.  He wasn&#039;t claiming he invented the first chair ever sat upon in the history of mankind (which some people seem to think is a necessary condition in order to claim a design as one&#039;s own).  Woods was claiming that someone stole his idea for a new version of one.  Woods won (the producers settled).  


Lebbeus Woods is a reasonably well-known architect and academic; he has lawyers, and some cultural juice.  The film producers (their lawyers, actually) knew Woods could make a case for theft (yes, people, that&#039;s what it is) so they copped to &#039;unintentional appropriation&#039; and settled out of court.  


Karen is just an artist on Etsy.  And having worked among lazy, cynical advertising &#039;creatives&#039;, I can guarantee that they saw Karen&#039;s work and ripped it off for their ad campaign to bring a little [misappropriated] art and soul to their soulless enterprise.  But first, they took it to their lawyers, who assured them that it was &#039;perfectly legal&#039;...

...using the arguments outlined by all you callous assh*les pooh-poohing Karen&#039;s claim in the previous comments.  And so the ad agency was paid very well for their &#039;work&#039;.  


That this happens all the time isn&#039;t surprising; what is surprising is the number of comments suggesting that cultural theft by commercial interests is ok because it happens all the time.  &#039;Legality&#039; is not society&#039;s sole standard of behavior - unless that society is a police state.      


What&#039;s most interesting is BB&#039;s hazy ethical stance in the admittedly hazy area of copyright, ownership and originality in any artistic endeavor.  If the design had originated with the ad agency and Karen O&#039;Leary had hung a Nissan poster in a gallery and claimed it as her own, would BB jump to the agency&#039;s defense?


When physicists want to denigrate a controversial theory they say it&#039;s &quot;not even wrong&quot;, which is kind of how I feel about any suggestion that advertising is art, bad or otherwise.   

Advertising is just scummy. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few years ago the architect Lebbeus Woods sued the producers of &#8220;12 Monkeys&#8221; for including a design element in their film (an interrogation chair) that was clearly lifted from Woods&#8217; published illustrations.  He wasn&#8217;t claiming he invented the first chair ever sat upon in the history of mankind (which some people seem to think is a necessary condition in order to claim a design as one&#8217;s own).  Woods was claiming that someone stole his idea for a new version of one.  Woods won (the producers settled).  </p>
<p>Lebbeus Woods is a reasonably well-known architect and academic; he has lawyers, and some cultural juice.  The film producers (their lawyers, actually) knew Woods could make a case for theft (yes, people, that&#8217;s what it is) so they copped to &#8216;unintentional appropriation&#8217; and settled out of court.  </p>
<p>Karen is just an artist on Etsy.  And having worked among lazy, cynical advertising &#8216;creatives&#8217;, I can guarantee that they saw Karen&#8217;s work and ripped it off for their ad campaign to bring a little [misappropriated] art and soul to their soulless enterprise.  But first, they took it to their lawyers, who assured them that it was &#8216;perfectly legal&#8217;&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;using the arguments outlined by all you callous assh*les pooh-poohing Karen&#8217;s claim in the previous comments.  And so the ad agency was paid very well for their &#8216;work&#8217;.  </p>
<p>That this happens all the time isn&#8217;t surprising; what is surprising is the number of comments suggesting that cultural theft by commercial interests is ok because it happens all the time.  &#8216;Legality&#8217; is not society&#8217;s sole standard of behavior &#8211; unless that society is a police state.      </p>
<p>What&#8217;s most interesting is BB&#8217;s hazy ethical stance in the admittedly hazy area of copyright, ownership and originality in any artistic endeavor.  If the design had originated with the ad agency and Karen O&#8217;Leary had hung a Nissan poster in a gallery and claimed it as her own, would BB jump to the agency&#8217;s defense?</p>
<p>When physicists want to denigrate a controversial theory they say it&#8217;s &#8220;not even wrong&#8221;, which is kind of how I feel about any suggestion that advertising is art, bad or otherwise.   </p>
<p>Advertising is just scummy. </p>
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		<title>By: Church</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742695</link>
		<dc:creator>Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742695</guid>
		<description>Stop dressing like me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stop dressing like me!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743220</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743220</guid>
		<description>Art should be public, not private, what people do with art, no matter how good, bad, or mass produced, is just art.  Duchamp turned a toilet on its side and created a piece of art.  No matter how much I disagree with it, it is art.  Ad campaigns &#039;rip off&#039; everybody all the time, but so do artists.  Just let bygones be bygones, and appreciate that this art form of paper cutting has made it to the masses.  Now we can create something new. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art should be public, not private, what people do with art, no matter how good, bad, or mass produced, is just art.  Duchamp turned a toilet on its side and created a piece of art.  No matter how much I disagree with it, it is art.  Ad campaigns &#8216;rip off&#8217; everybody all the time, but so do artists.  Just let bygones be bygones, and appreciate that this art form of paper cutting has made it to the masses.  Now we can create something new. </p>
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		<title>By: Bill Barth</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743222</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Barth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743222</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the thing I don&#039;t understand, there are plenty of commenters who are willing to subject themselves to libel litigation by &quot;guarantee[ing]&quot; that this agency in Brazil &quot;stole&quot; this style from an Etsy artist. Unless you were at the agency when this design was created, it&#039;s probably not worth declaring to the world that they&#039;ve committed some sort of legal or moral crime. If O&#039;Leary feels that her work has been infringed, it&#039;s up to her to make the case in court and the court of public opinion. 

Several others have pointed out that many other artists have been doing paper-cut maps for many years in styles very similar to this. Asserting that you know for sure that Nissan&#039;s ad agency stole from one particular paper-cutting-map artist is reckless. 

Finally, the agency in Brazil isn&#039;t obliged to respond to a tech journalist&#039;s accusations of a potential legal problem. I certainly wouldn&#039;t </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the thing I don&#8217;t understand, there are plenty of commenters who are willing to subject themselves to libel litigation by &#8220;guarantee[ing]&#8221; that this agency in Brazil &#8220;stole&#8221; this style from an Etsy artist. Unless you were at the agency when this design was created, it&#8217;s probably not worth declaring to the world that they&#8217;ve committed some sort of legal or moral crime. If O&#8217;Leary feels that her work has been infringed, it&#8217;s up to her to make the case in court and the court of public opinion. </p>
<p>Several others have pointed out that many other artists have been doing paper-cut maps for many years in styles very similar to this. Asserting that you know for sure that Nissan&#8217;s ad agency stole from one particular paper-cutting-map artist is reckless. </p>
<p>Finally, the agency in Brazil isn&#8217;t obliged to respond to a tech journalist&#8217;s accusations of a potential legal problem. I certainly wouldn&#8217;t </p>
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		<title>By: Modern Jess</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743223</link>
		<dc:creator>Modern Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743223</guid>
		<description>Was the artist&#039;s copyright violated? Doubtful, since it wasn&#039;t a literal copy, just an appropriation of the idea. Did the artist have a patent on the idea? Doubtful again, since there is a rich body of prior art in existence. Did the ad agency sneak into the artist&#039;s studio and physically remove one of her pieces of art? Doesn&#039;t seem like it.

So I&#039;m a bit lost here. What was stolen, exactly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was the artist&#8217;s copyright violated? Doubtful, since it wasn&#8217;t a literal copy, just an appropriation of the idea. Did the artist have a patent on the idea? Doubtful again, since there is a rich body of prior art in existence. Did the ad agency sneak into the artist&#8217;s studio and physically remove one of her pieces of art? Doesn&#8217;t seem like it.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m a bit lost here. What was stolen, exactly?</p>
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		<title>By: me3dia</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742969</link>
		<dc:creator>me3dia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742969</guid>
		<description>So... how many more examples of prior art need to be posted before nobody says &quot;it&#039;s a ripoff&quot; again?

Just because Karen O&#039;Leary&#039;s iteration of this well-established concept &quot;went viral&quot; doesn&#039;t mean she now has exclusive license over it and all subsequent iterations are a ripoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; how many more examples of prior art need to be posted before nobody says &#8220;it&#8217;s a ripoff&#8221; again?</p>
<p>Just because Karen O&#8217;Leary&#8217;s iteration of this well-established concept &#8220;went viral&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean she now has exclusive license over it and all subsequent iterations are a ripoff.</p>
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		<title>By: Dewi Morgan</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743225</link>
		<dc:creator>Dewi Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743225</guid>
		<description>An artist does deserve credit for creating a medium, or a mode: but not scrawled across every derivative work. Credit is given by critics. Credits at the bottom of the posters should be limited to the names of the artist, and of the photographer, and possibly information on the medium (type of cardstock, type of camera). The artist&#039;s influences, many or few, should be absent. The photographer&#039;s influences, many or few, should also be absent.

Nobody puts &quot;inspired by Pollack&quot; by their signature on a painting made of paint splotches. But the critics will say &quot;comparable to Pollack at his most uninspired!&quot; or something.

Good remixers give credit, and credit from a large org like this could mean a huge boost to an artists income. But this is not even a remix, so I see no requirement, *even a moral one* for them to credit in this case: it&#039;s not her work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An artist does deserve credit for creating a medium, or a mode: but not scrawled across every derivative work. Credit is given by critics. Credits at the bottom of the posters should be limited to the names of the artist, and of the photographer, and possibly information on the medium (type of cardstock, type of camera). The artist&#8217;s influences, many or few, should be absent. The photographer&#8217;s influences, many or few, should also be absent.</p>
<p>Nobody puts &#8220;inspired by Pollack&#8221; by their signature on a painting made of paint splotches. But the critics will say &#8220;comparable to Pollack at his most uninspired!&#8221; or something.</p>
<p>Good remixers give credit, and credit from a large org like this could mean a huge boost to an artists income. But this is not even a remix, so I see no requirement, *even a moral one* for them to credit in this case: it&#8217;s not her work.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742970</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742970</guid>
		<description>I disagree. There is an obvious similarity, but this type of artwork hasn&#039;t been patented, has it? I know it sounds retarded but think about it, if you&#039;re going to get technical about this, then why not consider that this  &quot;stolen&quot; idea doesn&#039;t even have a copyright yet. Does it? And from when on did creative originality matter? People are always striving to be different and are aimlessly searching for the next big thing, but honestly, it is all based off the same stuff. Besides, the virtue of art is not merely based on the idea of who made it first and so on, but on the merit each individual artist puts through his/her creative expression. If not then all cubist artist, including Picasso, would be considered &quot;phonies.&quot;  

Lastly, the artist should feel happy to know that he is getting more exposure. 

PS: I&#039;m working towards a BFA. These are just my views on the subject. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree. There is an obvious similarity, but this type of artwork hasn&#8217;t been patented, has it? I know it sounds retarded but think about it, if you&#8217;re going to get technical about this, then why not consider that this  &#8220;stolen&#8221; idea doesn&#8217;t even have a copyright yet. Does it? And from when on did creative originality matter? People are always striving to be different and are aimlessly searching for the next big thing, but honestly, it is all based off the same stuff. Besides, the virtue of art is not merely based on the idea of who made it first and so on, but on the merit each individual artist puts through his/her creative expression. If not then all cubist artist, including Picasso, would be considered &#8220;phonies.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Lastly, the artist should feel happy to know that he is getting more exposure. </p>
<p>PS: I&#8217;m working towards a BFA. These are just my views on the subject. </p>
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		<title>By: Zadaz</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742723</link>
		<dc:creator>Zadaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742723</guid>
		<description>This is already 4th generation derivative content anyway.  As mentioned above, no one is crediting the original map makers anywhere, who obviously had a lot more work creating an orginal map than simply cutting one out.

But of course maps are derivative works, taking the centuries of work by individuals and municipalities to create networks of roads, buildings, and landmarks, and stripping it down to a few lines and words on paper.  I&#039;ve just looked through the fine print on a number of maps that I own and none of them even credits the city for anything.

And does a &quot;no response&quot; from a Brazilian design firm really say anything?  They could probably care less about a &quot;media&quot; request from some foreign blog.  &#039;BoingBoing? Who are they?  Never heard of &#039;em, into the trash.&#039;  I&#039;ve made similar decisions when dealing with requests from foreign media only to realize later that someone I had never heard of is Big Stuff in another country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is already 4th generation derivative content anyway.  As mentioned above, no one is crediting the original map makers anywhere, who obviously had a lot more work creating an orginal map than simply cutting one out.</p>
<p>But of course maps are derivative works, taking the centuries of work by individuals and municipalities to create networks of roads, buildings, and landmarks, and stripping it down to a few lines and words on paper.  I&#8217;ve just looked through the fine print on a number of maps that I own and none of them even credits the city for anything.</p>
<p>And does a &#8220;no response&#8221; from a Brazilian design firm really say anything?  They could probably care less about a &#8220;media&#8221; request from some foreign blog.  &#8216;BoingBoing? Who are they?  Never heard of &#8216;em, into the trash.&#8217;  I&#8217;ve made similar decisions when dealing with requests from foreign media only to realize later that someone I had never heard of is Big Stuff in another country.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742984</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742984</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but I see no evidence at all that they stole this &quot;style&quot; (which apparently was not copyrighted anyway) from this artist. It&#039;s clearly similar, but I&#039;ve seen similar things for years. And the fact that Paris is in the series is a smoking gun? Cripes. Paris is kind of famous, you know...perhaps it&#039;s not so astonishing that Nissan would use it in a campaign.

I mean, for crying out loud, Keran&#039;s using copyrighted maps to do her thing and you don&#039;t see the mapmakers going after her. Of course now that this has been brought up on BB, maybe they will now.

The agency used an idea one of their designers probably saw in college and built a reasonably neat-looking campaign around it. And to complain about the language being vapid? It&#039;s advertising...and the tech that allowed them to do the cut-outs is exactly the same tech that lets them design and build cars more efficiantly than in the old days, which is a perfectly valid thing to put in an ad.

I think what many are mad about is that a horrible greedy multinational company is doing it, so they MUST have stolen it from some poor innocent starving artist.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but I see no evidence at all that they stole this &#8220;style&#8221; (which apparently was not copyrighted anyway) from this artist. It&#8217;s clearly similar, but I&#8217;ve seen similar things for years. And the fact that Paris is in the series is a smoking gun? Cripes. Paris is kind of famous, you know&#8230;perhaps it&#8217;s not so astonishing that Nissan would use it in a campaign.</p>
<p>I mean, for crying out loud, Keran&#8217;s using copyrighted maps to do her thing and you don&#8217;t see the mapmakers going after her. Of course now that this has been brought up on BB, maybe they will now.</p>
<p>The agency used an idea one of their designers probably saw in college and built a reasonably neat-looking campaign around it. And to complain about the language being vapid? It&#8217;s advertising&#8230;and the tech that allowed them to do the cut-outs is exactly the same tech that lets them design and build cars more efficiantly than in the old days, which is a perfectly valid thing to put in an ad.</p>
<p>I think what many are mad about is that a horrible greedy multinational company is doing it, so they MUST have stolen it from some poor innocent starving artist.</p>
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		<title>By: thepixelpuncher</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742729</link>
		<dc:creator>thepixelpuncher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742729</guid>
		<description>Paper cutting is an medium 

It&#039;s not a &quot;rip-off&quot;. If Karen made her beautiful hand cut cities for another car company let&#039;s say Mazda and Nissan came and did the same thing, or if Karen had consulted with Nissan and they used her idea then I would say you had some merit to the claim. 

This is actually some good publicity for her I bet she might sell a few more posters.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paper cutting is an medium </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a &#8220;rip-off&#8221;. If Karen made her beautiful hand cut cities for another car company let&#8217;s say Mazda and Nissan came and did the same thing, or if Karen had consulted with Nissan and they used her idea then I would say you had some merit to the claim. </p>
<p>This is actually some good publicity for her I bet she might sell a few more posters.</p>
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		<title>By: Modern Jess</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743241</link>
		<dc:creator>Modern Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743241</guid>
		<description>You know, having just read all these comments, the hypocrisy on display here is astounding. BoingBoing regularly celebrates remixing, mash-ups, riffing, and fair use. Even if the corporation in question appropriated from the artist (and I&#039;m not at all convinced that they did) then the condemnation here is very much against the grain of the values that BoingBoing regularly espouses.

You can agree or disagree with those values, but to apply them selectively is simply hypocritical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, having just read all these comments, the hypocrisy on display here is astounding. BoingBoing regularly celebrates remixing, mash-ups, riffing, and fair use. Even if the corporation in question appropriated from the artist (and I&#8217;m not at all convinced that they did) then the condemnation here is very much against the grain of the values that BoingBoing regularly espouses.</p>
<p>You can agree or disagree with those values, but to apply them selectively is simply hypocritical.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael_GR</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-743497</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael_GR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-743497</guid>
		<description>Aldous: I believe thre is a difference, if not of principle, at least of degree, between this case and the Lebbeus Woods case. The degree is in the specificity of the design. In the map case, you could sum the &quot;lifted&quot; elements as &quot;White map of city with the non-road elements cut away&quot;. It&#039;s more conceptual or stylistic than lifting a specific design. Were O&#039;Leary to design her own city, and were Nissan to steal her fictional city design, it would be a different case. Now, with Lebbeus Woods, I&#039;ts a very specific design: A seat made of thin plates, attached to a wall in a specific way, with a sphere mounted on some sort of articulated arm facing the chair. I remember seeing the movie for the first tie and almost screaming &quot;It&#039;s Lebbeus Woods!&quot; in the theater. I was a huge Lebbeus Woods fan at the time (still am), and it wasn&#039;t the style that was recognizable (it was a movie, adter all - the drawing was, I think, made with crayons), it was the specific design.
Lastly, I don&#039;t think Woods can be described as a big shot architect with access to high profile lawyers: he&#039;s more of an artist and a theoretician than an active architect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aldous: I believe thre is a difference, if not of principle, at least of degree, between this case and the Lebbeus Woods case. The degree is in the specificity of the design. In the map case, you could sum the &#8220;lifted&#8221; elements as &#8220;White map of city with the non-road elements cut away&#8221;. It&#8217;s more conceptual or stylistic than lifting a specific design. Were O&#8217;Leary to design her own city, and were Nissan to steal her fictional city design, it would be a different case. Now, with Lebbeus Woods, I&#8217;ts a very specific design: A seat made of thin plates, attached to a wall in a specific way, with a sphere mounted on some sort of articulated arm facing the chair. I remember seeing the movie for the first tie and almost screaming &#8220;It&#8217;s Lebbeus Woods!&#8221; in the theater. I was a huge Lebbeus Woods fan at the time (still am), and it wasn&#8217;t the style that was recognizable (it was a movie, adter all &#8211; the drawing was, I think, made with crayons), it was the specific design.<br />
Lastly, I don&#8217;t think Woods can be described as a big shot architect with access to high profile lawyers: he&#8217;s more of an artist and a theoretician than an active architect.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742997</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742997</guid>
		<description>The real question is whether or not she ripped off the map data used to create the map cutouts.  I&#039;m sure Navtech and Teleatlas will be looking for their fake roads to determine whether or not they were stolen from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question is whether or not she ripped off the map data used to create the map cutouts.  I&#8217;m sure Navtech and Teleatlas will be looking for their fake roads to determine whether or not they were stolen from.</p>
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		<title>By: robulus</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742743</link>
		<dc:creator>robulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742743</guid>
		<description>You mean, &quot;not a legally infringing copy.&quot;

No question, it&#039;s absolutely a rip off.

It&#039;s not the last sign of the end times, but it&#039;s lazy, and it speaks to me of bored, creatively frustrated people who want to get out of their boring, creatively frustrating office, and drink beer.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean, &#8220;not a legally infringing copy.&#8221;</p>
<p>No question, it&#8217;s absolutely a rip off.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the last sign of the end times, but it&#8217;s lazy, and it speaks to me of bored, creatively frustrated people who want to get out of their boring, creatively frustrating office, and drink beer.</p>
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		<title>By: liatach</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742751</link>
		<dc:creator>liatach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742751</guid>
		<description>While I think it is obvious where they got the idea.
You cannot patent an idea.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I think it is obvious where they got the idea.<br />
You cannot patent an idea.</p>
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		<title>By: robulus</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-742755</link>
		<dc:creator>robulus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-742755</guid>
		<description>Yeah, because the Bauhaus didn&#039;t contribute anything to furniture design. Chairs have been around FOR EVER.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, because the Bauhaus didn&#8217;t contribute anything to furniture design. Chairs have been around FOR EVER.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://boingboing.net/2010/03/23/did-nissan-or-their.html#comment-756071</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-756071</guid>
		<description>This is not something that started with O&#039;Leary this type of diagramming called figure/ground has been around as long as architecture and master planning. It would be like saying that someone stole the concept for a building elevation from someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not something that started with O&#8217;Leary this type of diagramming called figure/ground has been around as long as architecture and master planning. It would be like saying that someone stole the concept for a building elevation from someone else.</p>
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