seeing the video brings to mind Bill Hicks who said of the first gulf war that he was in the unenviable position of being for the war but against the troops. His fury is sorely lacking at times like these.

I sincerely hope this blows up into the firestorm it deserves to be. i hope the pilots come forward and talk about it. i hope some heads roll and rules change and that people can have a mature conversation about the realities of war.

hahahahaha… for a second i thought that might happen.

so who’s getting a ipad?

Actually, if I happened to be a journalist in Iraq, I am sure I would be quite familiar of the danger that come with the job. Specifically with the alarming number of journalists that are kidnapped, tortured and murdered by insurgents, not Americans.

The Committee to Protect Journalists: Iraq Statistics
141 Journalists Killed in Iraq since 1992 (Motive Confirmed)
• Insurgent/other armed group action: 105 (Includes crossfire, suicide bombings, and murders.)
• U.S. fire: 16 (CPJ has not found evidence to conclude that U.S. troops targeted journalists in these cases. While the cases are classified as crossfire, CPJ continues to investigate.)
• Iraqi armed forces, during U.S. invasion: 3 (All are crossfire or acts of war.)
• Iraqi armed forces, post-U.S. invasion: 1 (Crossfire)
• Source unconfirmed: 14

Excuse me for being a bit curious here, but how come I have never seen Aljezeria or any other news outlet dedicate their front page to any of the 105 other journalists that died horrible deaths in Iraq, specifically by Insurgent’s hands?

Shocking oversight, no?

These two guys dying in the street like that is horrible stuff, I really mean that, however in my mind not nearly as sickening as those that use their deaths to push an agenda.

We really ask a lot of our young service people out on the checkpoints because there’s danger, they’re asked to make very rapid decisions in often very unclear situations. However, to my knowledge, in the nine-plus months I’ve been here, not a single case where we have engaged in an escalation of force incident and hurt someone has it turned out that the vehicle had a suicide bomb or weapons in it and, in many cases, had families in it. That doesn’t mean I’m criticizing the people who are executing. I’m just giving you perspective. We’ve shot an amazing number of people and killed a number and, to my knowledge, none has proven to have been a real threat to the force.

– General Stanley McChrystal

McChrystal: We’ve Shot ‘An Amazing Number’ Of Innocent Afghans

But I really am lacking in detailed knowledge of how the US conducts its war in Iraq and the equipment on these helicopter gunships: surely any sane rules of engagement in a civilian area would require up-close identification of the threat? And surely the helicopter’s gunner would be looking through a precision optical glass aiming device, surely not a low quality video feed, in which almost nothing is clearly identifiable?

unless they are oblivious to its presence, overall they do not seem alarmed. they are not dispersing in various directions, running for cover, aiming rpg’s or raising guns, etc. the van that pulls up is under the same situation, and no one pops out with a raised gun or rpg. the samaritans are not frantically running around, but moving the injured at a moderate pace. everything on the ground looks like these guys feel safe being in the open with a u.s. helicopter overhead.

which makes me wonder if this ever crossed the minds of the gunner and pilot?

also, why don’t they ever use loudspeakers like police helicopters? i know, no interpreters, but what about pre-recorded instruction. just curious, as this is supposed to also be a policing effort at this stage of the game (this stage meaning anything after 3 years of occupancy).

You folks have non-human enemies now? As distinct from inhuman ones?

You see the enemy, you kill him ,her or them. Not “it”.
Or is the use of inhumane language concomitant with inhuman acts of violence?

Sure does de-humanize the people you call “enemies”, though.

The Apache is both recon and airstrike. They recon the guys on the ground, see at least one AK, (and you’re right everyone is pretty much allowed one for home defense etc.) mistake two shoulder slung cameras for two more, see an RPG clearly visible at 3:45 (two guys top of screen, dude on the right turns around, and you can see it clearly), they request permission to fire, probably from the ground element to confirm that a) it’s not the ground element’s people themselves (stranger things have happened) and b) that they’re likely a threat to the route of travel of the ground element.

Someone said it earlier, it’s press among fighters. They took their chances. They should have maintained a clear separation with the armed men, it’s a high risk job.

The van; sneaking people off the battle field, is not what we would or should allow. We absolutely don’t want some random to roll in pick up the bodies and guns and then later try to claim it was all just us blazing down women and children.

My concern about the audio being faked earlier, was because I misunderstood the source of the video. I thought it was captured via transmission like UAV type video, and someone added audio. I was at that point trying to download it but the site was down because it was boingboinged.

Blame starts at the top.

After initially denying involvement or any cover-up in the deaths of three Afghan women during a badly bungled American Special Operations assault in February, the American-led military command in Kabul admitted late on Sunday that its forces had, in fact, killed the women during the nighttime raid…The admission immediately raised questions about what really happened during the Feb. 12 operation — and what falsehoods followed — including a new report that Special Operations forces dug bullets out of the bodies of the women to hide the true nature of their deaths.

U.S. Admits Role in February Killing of Afghan Women

More to the point, this video has been acknowledged as authentic by the Pentagon. There are no “shenanigans” here.

What can we do about this atrocity? Donate to wikileaks? At the very least I encourage all American citizens who are as outraged as I to write their Congressional representatives and request Congressional inquiry into the matter.

House of Representatives: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

Sentate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

IT IS TIME FOR ALL OF THE FILM TO BE LEAKED. IF YOU ARE A JOURNALIST WITH FOOTAGE IT IS YOUR DUTY TO RELEASE IT AND SHOW THE WORLD HOW DESPICABLE THE AMERICAN MILITARY IS!

Civilian Americans must realize that a war of this nature is the equivalent of our leaders spitting in our face. The people of this country/world are against this war, and have been since the largest united protest in the history of the world took place on the eve of the invasion. If we allow it to continue in light of overwhelming opposition how can we say that our government is of the people, by the people, for the people. REVOLT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is, and has always been, the reality of war.

Thousands of these guys are coming back, and some of them will wake up in the middle of the night and be horrified. I know vets who still suffer for things they did almost 50 years ago.

This is what the American people voted for when we went to war, whether they understood it or not.

Apaches have incredible optics and imaging systems. They can see and engage tanks from 6 kilometers away, at night. They just weren’t designed to tell insurgent from armed civilian. And I don’t think any camera on the planet can tell a journalist’s bodyguard from an Iraqi insurgent.

I feel bad for the crews, they’ve been told to look for groups of armed men. They found a group of men and shot the hell out of them after being cleared to engage. Don’t get mad at the troops, they’re doing what is being asked of them. Get mad at the people controlling them, mainly the people who can make the decision to finally give up on Americanizing Iraq and shut down GWB’s little middle east fun park ride.