Minister for Digital Britain thinks an IP address is an "Intellectual Property address"

From the you'd-have-to-laugh-or-you'd-have-to-shoot-yourself department:

The Right Honourable Stephen Timms is the UK's "Minister for Digital Britain." He's the guy behind the Digital Economy Bill, which makes the US DMCA look good by comparison. Seriously, this is some terrible, terrible lawmaking.

Here's what appears to be a letter the DigiMini sent to another MP, explaining why the Digital Economy Bill needs to go forward. It reads, in part, "Copyright owners are currently able to go on-line (sic), look for material to which they hold the copyright and identify unauthorised sources for that material. They can then seek to download a copy of that material and in so doing capture information about the source including the Intellectual Property (IP) address..."

If this letter is genuine (and it seems to be), it means that the guy who's in charge of Britain's digital future thinks that the "IP" in "IP address" stands for "Intellectual Property."

The Rt Hon Stephen Timms MP doesn't know what an IP address is (Thanks, JP!)

Previously:

I write books. My latest is a YA science fiction novel called Homeland (it's the sequel to Little Brother). More books: Rapture of the Nerds (a novel, with Charlie Stross); With a Little Help (short stories); and The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow (novella and nonfic). I speak all over the place and I tweet and tumble, too.

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Anonymous

After he is slung out on his ear, Timms can form a doublethink-tank with Ted “Series of Tubes” Stevens.
benher

Wait,… it doesn’t stand for Internet Porn?
politeruin

Interesting. He didn’t include that passage when he wrote to me on behalf of my mp. Mine was dated 8 december 2009, compare and contrast…

http://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/File:Digital_economy_bill_-_response_from_Stephen_Timms_MP.pdf
Anonymous

Brilliant! Not surprising, but a welcome reminder that our politicians are amateurs – they have no specialised knowledge and rely entirely on advisers to brief them. (It used to be one of the strengths of the House of Lords that debates were more likely to involve people who knew their subject, but that too has gone now the Lords are there only by virtue of the PM’s patronage – a change that I don’t remember voting for.)
WalterBillington

Surely this starts to erode the validity of the bill?

And who spells “Tims” “Timms”? He’s an upper class twat, that’s who he is. Or a lower class scoundrel wannabe. Or a very left leaning something or other … oh no, prob not.

Politicians will only ever strive for influence, power, and the ability to dip their mucky paws into the honey pot.
Vili Lehdonvirta

And TCP stands for trademarks, copyrights and patents. Hence TCP/IP.
Anonymous

@#26 – knowledge of the industry you’re in isn’t a requirement for being in management. As long as you can produce colourful flowcharts, that’s all that is required. And that is the problem with the world today – dumbf**ks in charge of everything. A spin-off of this problem is that everyone will end up majoring in business and management because ‘the money’s better’, and there will be no one with real skills left in 40 years time (either all retired, or dead from working to fill in the gap from an increasing lack of skilled workers). Future generations are truely screwed.
igpajo

Our future is being decided by idiots!!
- Anonymous
  
  “Our future is being decided by idiots!!”
  
  And in other news, ursine mammals defecate in arboreal areas, and Joseph Alois Ratzinger is a member of the Catholic church.
  
  All politicians are idiots; I think it’s part of their job description.
- Anonymous
  
  Don’t worry, UK people are not alone. We Germans have a government of similar ability… :-/
Anonymous

if that’s real, it is beyond shocking. holy cow
Glenn Fleishman

From what I’m reading, it sounds like there is a slim chance that this will be held up in some post-parliamentary move that is beyond my understanding of English politic procedure? Or is that just a dream?
- Cory Doctorow
  
  AFAIK, it has to go back to the Lords for a rubberstamp, and then the Queen has to sign it. I think there’s a slim chance that it could die in the former, and no chance at all it will die in the latter.
  
  Much of the worst stuff in the bill has to be brought in as “secondary legislation,” meaning that we might be able to demand a full debate and so on then.
  - Anonymous
    
    secondary legislation is rarely debated.
Anonymous

It is nice to know that you Brits are run by idiots just as the USA is. I don’t feel so bad now.
Boba Fett Diop

It’s a series of tubes!
tw15

Microsoft Word’s autocomplete feature is probably partly to blame. The devil is in the details.
- mjj12
  
  I think you are right, but the typist still possibly had to click “yes” when the autocomplete feature suggested the change. Plus, the piece has presumably been proofread by people who do not know what an IP address is, so still not impressive.
  
  Oddly enough, this exact issue was tagged in the Risks Digest in 1994. In that instance, a newspaper published the following sentence, which just came out as something totally bizarre rather than something suggesting the writer was an idiot, as here.
  
  “GOP national chairman Haley Barbour instantly announced that New York City
  was no longer in the running for the Republican National Convention, and,
  more ominous, Sen. Alfonse D’Amato, the state’s leading Republican and
  Pataki’s Disk Operating System (DOS), said he would not seek revenge on
  Giuliani.”
  
  http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/16.57.html#subj4.1
Baldhead

if there’s any doubt about typo/ not typo- the sentence makes no sense at all if IP means Internet Protocol. Is there and IP address in an mp3? either kind even? They’ve put a man who can’t swim in charge of the Navy.
- Anonymous
  
  The mp3-file doesn’t contain an IP-address, but you can track from where you download, while you download.
Anonymous

Digital Economy Pill – http://depill.me/
teapot

copy paste fail?

Mistakes like this need to be rubbed in the face of the person responsible.
Thac0

This guy needs to get tossed out on his ear.
hadlock

Hell of a Freudian slip
Anonymous

Nope. IP stands for Idiot Politician
VonWatters

head -> keyboard
despairing groan
Anonymous

Surely this man should simply not be allowed to pass legislation in areas he clearly doesn’t understand? If this erroneous definition is a core tenet of the bill, then it undermines the whole thing, and it ought to be thrown out as a bad job.
Nash Rambler

This whole situation doesn’t so much smack of the blind leading the blind, as a blind flight crew flying a full load of blind passengers, and one seeing-eye dog whimpering at the sight of the rapidly approaching Himalayan range.
Anonymous

I’d bet money that he just wrote “IP address” and then an editor/proofer saw that and thought “that acronym has’t been used yet in this paper, we have to expand it on first use” and so they wrote it out long-form with what they understood it to mean.
- Anonymous
  
  I agree that either some assistant “proofread” and incorrectly “corrected” the memo, or that Microsoft Word, thinking it knew better than the author, expanded it to its full “incorrect meaning.”
Karnuvap

There is a slim possibility that this was written for him by someone who didn’t know what IP stood for and they inserted the first expansion of the abbreviation that they found on-line (since the bill deals with Intellectual Property it would have seemed to fit) because using abbreviations without defining them is rude.
Just a slim chance though and Mr. Timms ought to read anything through before he signs and sends it off but I imagine he’s a bit busy at the moment.
I don’t support the bill though.
danegeld

It’s also possible that Timms employs a secretary who doesn’t know that IP = Internet Protocol in that context.

Would the digital economy bill apply to networking protocols that don’t explicitly use TCP/IP? We could pirate on Token Ring networks, right?
tem dmindu

Awesome. You guys have an MP who appears to have been brainwashed by the copyright movement-of-the-week (IP = IP); we have a guy who thinks we’re posting our opinions here via a pneumatic tube system. Small world.
IWood

Interactive Penis.

But only certain websites have that feature. It’s like a v6 thing.
Chas44

IP = Idiotic Politician.
- J France
  
  I’ll chime in with ‘Ignorant Prick’.
  
  I wish it wasn’t a surprise that the guy’s clueless, and to those who are calling editor / MS Word foul… I’d hope that a minister, or his staffers, would appreciate the gravity and sensitivity of their proposed law(s) and would make every effort to ensure they were credible and competent in calling for them.
  
  Either way it’s a further slap in the face of a passionate and mobilised opposition, and the British public at large. I’d say it’s on going evidence that the entire thing is a big fucking joke being played out via parliament on behalf of copyright holders.
- jo3lr0ck5
  
  You beat me to the punch sir, I congratulate you for having the utmost intelligence!
oohShiny

When all you have is a hammer…
- Pantograph
  
  …you don’t need a large toolbox?
  - Blue
    
    Then why have we got the House of Commons?
  - oohShiny
    
    LMAO. While true, I was referring to the propensity for things to look like nails.
Anonymous

Hey,

The original source was here http://meeb.org/post/505849844/i-wrote-to-my-mp-two-weeks-ago-regarding-my-shock – I received the letter yesterday and posted it to reddit.

There’s more letters in the bundle, and I’ll keep you posted if any other media pick it up.
Anonymous

Someone also doesn’t know how to use a rubber date stamp… 32nd Feb, no, wait, 23rd Feb….
Anonymous

The head of Verizon just made the same mistake in this video with Jon Taplin! Checkout the 30 seconds after 27:20 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd5czy1DxWs&feature=player_embedded#
Anonymous

@#66 I couldn’t agree more, flowcharts you know what I’m talking about ;-)

If I hear another person come on the TV and say that we don’t have the skill’s in this country that’s why we have to out source to India, bulls*@t we do have the skills but you want to pay India’s wages for someone living in the UK that has years of experience and paid out a fortune for training. (I haven’t been to one company that has kept up their promise of official update training.)

To be honest IT just isn’t what it should be, we have the skills, but in the words of #66 we are often suppressed by dumbf~*@ks.
Anonymous

Everybody knows IP stands for Idiot Politicians.
asuffield

Stephen Timms would make a good target if you want to make a noisy splash about this issue. He is the MP for what is considered a Labour safe seat. He has a majority of 13000 on a turnout of 40000, with a population of 120000. Unemployment and poverty are very high in this region. Running a heavy “get out the vote” campaign that unseats him would send a very clear message to any other politicians who think about abusing the loopholes in the parliamentary process.
masamunecyrus

This nice little Freudian slip shows very nicely that the people in charge of these bills care about absolutely nothing except for the money and fancy vacations to Italy that the music and movie industries are providing…
Anonymous

Just because the guy worked in Telecom’s for 15 years doesn’t mean he knows anything technical. Have you ever worked in a big company? they are usually the worst full of what I call non jobs, that get in the way of getting on with your job just to follow some stupid processes. Most of my managers have been totally non technical yet they are head of an IT department.

Our government are shocking and I’d love to know where they get their technical advice from because I don’t think they have touched a keyboard in their life.

Anyway hopefully they are getting kicked out in the next few months and a government with IT knowledge will see sense.
lercio

Does this mean I can think of an IP address and then register it as my property because I invented it.

I hereby register 127.0.0.1

“All you base are belong to us !!!!”
blueeyedboy

What. A. Fud.
Anonymous

Dear Brits,

start a revolution now. You’re in bigger need of it than even we, the Merkins or the Aussies.

Signed,
your fellow Kraut
Anonymous

http://www.dilbert.com/2010-04-05/
mmcnickle

There are plenty of things wrong with the Bill without having to resort to pointing out typos in documents. Doing so makes us seem like petty pedants, and doesn’t help the cause any.

Pointing out typos and slips-of-the-tongue are one level below ad-hominem attacks. Not good debating technique at all.
- zyodei
  
  I caught the comments in the other thread, and I was gobsmacked by it.
  
  I agree it’s not just a simple typo, but a fundamental misunderstanding of this basic technical issue. If it were just any old MP, it wouldn’t matter. The head of “Digital Britain” – it’s an outrageous gaffe.
- Pantograph
  
  That’s not a typo. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding. As such it goes to the heart of why lobbyists have such power.
  Politicians voting on matters they don’t understand is a daily occurrence worldwide and it is the reason why so many destructive policies are being put in place. Policies often at odds with the principles the politicians themselves stand for.
  
  If naming and shaming helps politicians to strive for more competence then I see no problem with it.
  
  Besides, ad-hominem attacks are perfectly fine if they are relevant to the discussion.
Anonymous

Stephen Timms worked in telecomms for years and later in Ovum (IT Consultancy). Don’t kid yourselves: the man knows what an IP-address is. This is a non-story.

ldnhal
guillaume_remy

It’s absolutly not a problem. Christine Albanel, the french minister of Culture who designed the silly Hadopi Law now works for France Telecom.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Albanel
And she thought that Openoffice was a Firewall…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F011hLZHZrM
or
http://www.numerama.com/magazine/12508-albanel-le-ministere-de-la-culture-a-comme-pare-feu-open-office-maj.html
I’m sure this minister will be hired by an IT company…
marither

knowing that he has been in the telecom industry for 15 years. hahaha. but could have been the publisher’s mistake not him.
Anonymous

Regardless of whether it was an editor or the author who’s responsible for that, it should be caught!! These kind of documents should be ENTIRELY FREE OF INCOMPETENT NONSENSE that they get away with in speech.

Although it does have the benefit of undermining the whole bill.
acb

TCP/IP = Traffic Containing Pirated Intellectual Property
- alecmuffett
  
  That’s _my_ joke, Andrew!
  
  Bah, I shall have to claim my Digital Rights upon it!
  
  http://twitter.com/alecmuffett/statuses/11871406596
  
  “The British Internet is filled with Traffic Containing Pirated Intellectual Property (TCP/IP) – write to your MP to have it banned immediately!”
  
  I think banning TCP-IP from the British Internet would be a strong statement for this Government to make, and be a powerful force to aid the adoption of proper, _British_ (ahem) technologies like X.25!
Richard Gadsden

The Digital Economy Act 2010 got the Royal Assent last night – if you listen to Today in Parliament for 8 April (the MP3 is here) you can actually hear the official say “la reine le veult” and grant the Royal Assent.
Anonymous

From his web site (http://www.stephentimms.org.uk/about-stephen)
“Before entering Parliament, Stephen worked in the telecommunications industry for fifteen years, first for Logica and then for Ovum. He managed Ovum’s telecommunications reports business until his election.”

Surely he can’t be that stupid
- Justin Forder
  
  I had the pleasure of working with Stephen Timms at Logica, and he is a very bright and honourable person. I doubt very much that this was his mistake.
ray_at_fatsoma

The DEB is ridiculously flawed. The negative repercussions on our society and economy as a whole hugely outweigh any potential gains from combating piracy in this way. It’s an insult to democracy by being so blatantly written and pushed through by lobbyists from the BPI and other â€œmusic industryâ€ figures. It ignored the British judiciary system by assuming guilt in the absence of proof (IP addresses cannot prove guilt in a court of law). It jeopardises our young digital economy, by eroding the chances of gaining truly wireless cities, and removes any incentive to provide free wi-fi areas.

What’s more, it is unlikely to have any effect on file-sharing, as is evident when you look at Sweden as a case study, where file-sharing has risen since their anti-piracy laws, just now it is encrypted. Instead the record companies who wrote this Act should be focusing on live music promotion as their primary revenue stream rather than protecting an old, out-dated business model.

For my blog on the implications of the DEB please go to http://bit.ly/a5rnUk. Cheers.
Anonymous

I plead for filling up the Channel Tunnel with concrete.
Anonymous

I believe this is also the Minister who addressed a conference of Third Sector ICT workers in 2008, referring throughout to something he thought was called ITC. We are governed by idiots.
Anonymous

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — if these draconian laws are allowed to pass then the first people reported as violators (and subject to losing their internet access) should be the politicians who supported it.

I bet someone in each of their homes has an iPod or iPhone — and therefore will undoubtedly have “pirated” music.