Family of grumpy girl claims store clerk injured her by scanning her head

A store clerk is on trial right now for pointing a price scanner to a grumpy 12-year old girl's forehead. The girl's family claims the scan burned her, causing PTSD and Tourette's Syndrome.

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1. O_O

   Setting aside all other comments and judgements, it took SIX YEARS for this to come out???

2. Nothing “causes” Tourette’s syndrome. Something can set it off temporarily, but as someone who has it, you learn to cope (I just don’t wear things around my neck). This is crazy.

3. Rarely has there been a better occasion for this: http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/cpttripps/thestupiditburns.jpg

   Frivolous litigation. Gotta love it….

   1. What an awesome image – that has earned a place on the inside wall of my office divider. Right next to a Dilbert “Random Policy Generator” strip and a bunch of XKCD office-related strips that (thankfully) no-one in the office gets.

      /off topic

      On topic:
      I think the parents should be removed of their duties, they’re imparting irresponsible messages to their children.

      This really is just more clippings for my (slightly controversial) “Lobbying for a child-bearing/rearing licensing system”. Fertility is something that can be neutralised, and then reversed, y’know.

4. A joke… it has to be a joke… what sane lawyer (this argues for some pretty insane ones) would even indulge thinking about such a ridiculous thing.
   Burn — highly unlikely unless the kid has violent allergies at that wavelength if that is the case why the heck was he there in the first place
   PTSD — from the supposed burning…. right
   Tourette’s? “Genetic and environmental factors each play a role in the etiology of Tourette’s, but the exact causes are unknown.” from wikipedia.

   A very well crafted joke I must add!

   1. @#4 CrisB: “Burn — highly unlikely unless the kid has violent allergies at that wavelength”

      Unless you’re suggesting that an electromagnetic emission is a somehow a _protein_, then it Is. Not. A. Monkeyfightin’. Allergy.

      Being “allergic to” something isn’t a simply a synonym for not liking that something. It doesn’t even mean any random objective-and-testable negative reaction to that something, even if that reaction has a biological basis well-understood by medical science. If it’s really an allergy, there’s a very specific mechanism of action involved.

      Getting sloppy with the technical terms gratuitously makes life harder for the folks who have genuine life-threatening allergies of the “if I eat something that’s been in contact with shellfish, my throat will swell shut and I will die” kind.

      It also plays into the hands of the tinfoil-hatters who think your 802.11 access point is the source of the voices in their heads.

      1. If it’s really an allergy, there’s a very specific mechanism of action involved.

         If it provokes the allergic immune response, it’s an allergy. No?

         1. @#30 Antinous: “If it provokes the allergic immune response, it’s an allergy. No?”

            Yes, exactly.

            Type I hypersensitivity, immunoglobulin E gets released, mast cells and basophils degranulate, histamine gets released and Bob’s yer uncle.

            If you sneeze when the trees bloom every spring, or get hives when you eat peanuts, it could maybe possibly conceivably be an allergy (or any of a dozen other things — among which you cannot distinguish without being tested by a doctor).

            If cigarette smoke makes you choke, I have no trouble believing that’s a real, reproducible, non-psychosomatic reaction. The odds of an actual allergy being involved are pretty darn remote.

            If you tell the waitress at the diner to “hold the tomatoes, I’m allergic” then cheerfully proceed to drown your plate in ketchup, you’re just a being a giant douche-nozzle.

            1. So then, what if an environmental factor such as temperature provokes the precise response? Are you allergic to cold?

            2. @#23 Antinous: “So then, what if an environmental factor such as temperature provokes the precise response? Are you allergic to cold?”

               Hypothetically, yes.

               However, that would require the cold to somehow bind to the IgE on the surface of the mast cells. IANA immunologist, but I don’t see how that’s actually possible.

               If you just get the same signs (say, for example, red itchy skin) but the mechanism that got you there differs, it’s not an allergy.

5. I wonder how many of the symptoms are due to the placebo effect from the idiot parents freaking out over the incident. That, or a blatant money grab…

6. I agree, this can’t be real. No judge could be stupid enough to let this come to trial.

7. We did it for the show, right grammy?

8. I’m reminded of the patron at Caesars Magical Empire in Las Vegas who swore that the fog being used was causing her to have an allergic reaction.

   When she was told that the fog was merely water vapor, her symptoms cleared up and she quickly departed.

   1. You (your manager?) lied to the customer. The condensation condenses around a seed, and it’s not some clump of CO2 or oxygen; it’s smog, but the lavender blossom kind is fine and the carcinogen delivery sort is not. The MSDS mentioned glosses that fog compounds are meant to be denatured before release; and of course that the water used can’t be let stand overnight; probably a dozen foggy all-caps details.

9. It is eminently possible that the clerk was a dickhead. Ordering strangers to smile is a weird and rather impolite habit.

   The idea, though, that a low-power red LED array(or diode laser, depending on the specific hardware) could even cause detectable effects, outside of edge cases like prolonged retinal exposure, is laughable. Burns, PTSD, and Tourette’s is just nutty.

   You’d get substantially more intense exposure, across the visible spectrum(with some slop into IR and UV), just by going outside.

   This is either a blatant money grab, or one of those tragic-but-honestly-pretty-vexing-after-a-while cases of a family with a deeply sick kid going off the deep end RE:Causality because somebody just must be to blame(See also: Autism and the Mercury Militia/Antivaxers).

10. As far as the fog goes, then although the effects of theatrical fog are psychosomatic, that doesn’t mean they don’t happen.

    But scanning a head causing a real physical injury? Umm… No.

    1. Well, some types of theatrical fog are pretty nasty. I remember having a job where we used chem fog by the gallons. Then one day I received the shipment when my boss wasn’t there.

       The warning label?
       It spoke of the fog causing liver and kidney damage and recommended any spills be cleaned up by a HazMat team.

       Umm…WTF?

11. Yeah, I agree this is a frivolous suit, but if a clerk points a laser anywhere near my eyes, there are going to be SEVERE problems. The reaction would probably come too soon for me to stop immediately after the laser assault and the clerk would be wondering what Mack truck had hit him. The attack was in self defense to keep the clerk from blinding me and the subsequent lawsuit is for the damage to my eyes, if indeed there were damage. Yeah, yeah, you can simply look away, but that doesn’t help when the idiot is insistent on being stupid. There is always one, isn’t there?

    1. Barcode scanners use class 1 lasers, which are harmless to the human eye. You’d be hitting a clerk with a Mack truck for something less insignificant than walking outside without sunglasses.

       1. Class 1 is for devices that contain a laser, but there’s no way for the laser to enter the eye. A barcode scanner is undoubtedly a Class IIIa device, meaning it contains a <5mW laser that’s exposed and can hit the eye. 5mW is pretty generous though, the lasers they use in barcode scanners are more like 1mW, meaning she’d have to stare into it for hours for it to cause eye damage.

          1. Anon15 / Quiet Noises / jeligula

             According to the attorney for the shop the scanner is the LED kind, not the laser kind.

             When used in CCD scanners, the LED’s are paired with a line of photocells to detect the reflected light from the barcode Since the LED’s are relatively low in power, and the photocells are low in sensitivity, the range of CCD barcode scanners is generally limited from being in contact with the barcode to 1″ away.

             http://www.carolinabarcode.com/how-barcode-scanners-work-a-69.html

    2. Randomly threatening hypothetical “clerk” with disproportionate “mack-truck” level violence in an online forum? You might be an internet tough-guy!

    3. I think your comment just gave me PTSD, and possibly tourretes, and a bit of a headache. Lighten up, you’re talking about assaulting someone for making a bad joke. And furthermore he did it to a kid, its kind of like saying “coochie coochie coo” to a baby. I’m not saying it was appropriate, but it also doesn’t justify physical violence. And its a frickin low intensity LED for god sakes.

       Sheesh, lighten up. Your reaction is even worse than that kid’s parents.

12. This story is giving me PTSD. Who do I sue?

13. From now on, all lawsuits should be contests. If the defendant is found not guilty, they should be awarded the money that the accuser is suing for.

    Maybe that’ll give people pause before they pursue frivolous, money-grabbing lawsuits.

14. Why we need lose-pays tort reform, example #254,892.

15. It may be only water vapour, but I know that theatrical fog ‘catches’ in my throat and causes me to cough. Would I complain to the management or sue or call it an allergic reaction? No, I know better than that.

    As for lawyers taking frivolous lawsuits, well, they’re all for making a buck, aren’t they? Hope the judge throws it out.

    1. Theatrical fog can be water or oil-based.

    2. That particular theatrical fog was water vapor, but I don’t think most are.

       But yeah, I have a small ultrasonic fogger and inhaling just the miniature droplets really feels funky in the lungs.

16. Yeah, the scanner might have not caused any injury, but what is it about folks who can’t seem to be able to deal with girls and women walking around minding their own business and NOT grinning stupidly from ear to ear?

17. There is a very simple way to deter frivolous lawsuits like this one: Require that all punitive damages go to charity rather than to the plaintiff.

    The (legitimate) purpose of tort law is to compensate the victim of a personal wrong for any actual damages incurred as a result of the defendant’s wrongdoing or negligence. The purpose is NOT to enrich the victim (or the victim’s lawyers) at the defendant’s expense.

    In cases of egregious wrongs, punitive damages are justified as a way of giving the defendant a well-deserved smack-down for his or her bad behavior; but punitive damages should NEVER be awarded to the plaintiff. The plaintiff ought to be entitled to fair compensation for actual damages (so long as the plaintiff can substantiate the claim by presenting medical bills, repair bills, affidavits from employers regarding lost wages, etc.), plus interest (at the going rate at the time the damages were incurred), plus all legal fees. That’s only fair. But the purpose of punitive damages is to punish the tortfeasor, NOT to reward the victim. So, all punitive damages ought to go to a (legitimate) charity of the plaintiff’s choosing.

    Once people realize that they’re not going to be able to use the legal system to get rich by being awarded millions in punitive damages, but will only get compensation for actual damages, they’ll be far less likely to file frivolous lawsuits.

18. what is it about folks who can’t seem to be able to deal with girls and women walking around minding their own business and NOT grinning stupidly from ear to ear?

    There was a study done decades ago on responses to non-smiling men and non-smiling women. Women are expected to smile.

19. I’ve worked on sound stages when they still used mineral oil for fog effects. After a 14-hour day, the fog would definitely get to me a little bit. I’ve been using glycol fog in a haunted house I’ve been running for the last 11 years or so. Doesn’t bother me nearly as much. I believe a simple mop + bucket approach would suffice for cleanup, since it’s water-based.

    Then again, I used to wash my hands with unleaded after working on a particularly greasy steering rack, so I’m probably the wrong guy to give any safety info.

20. @ #11 jeligula, yes, there is always one, sometimes more than one.

21. Man, total strangers telling me to smile instantly put me in a rotten mood… buuut I reluctantly admit that it doesn’t justify a totally ludicrous lawsuit. And this sounds like one dumb lawsuit.

22. People always complain about theatrical fog. They believe it’s smoke and therefore bad. Often nothing can convince them otherwise. Even the oil based ones are less harmful than, say, the vapours at a gas station.

23. A few days ago a young woman was walking down the stairs to the inbound Chinatown T platform in the middle of what I assume to have been a Tourette’s powered world explosion. She paused, looked me in the eye and told me she liked my purple shirt and that I had made a great choice in shirts that day. And then her words exploded again and she continued downstairs as I made my way out into the daylight at the top of the stairs.

24. There is a small but real chance that the girl DID develop Tourette’s after the incident. The family may be trying desperately to find a reason, someone whose fault it is, that their child now has this condition. Yes, correlation isn’t causation, but when something weird happens like this, and subsequently a severe condition like Tourette’s develops, I can see how the mental connection is made, even if the scientific one makes no sense. PTSD just means that someone is messed up from a past bad incident, that could certainly be logically linked to the onset of Tourette’s. Although the burns make no sense in any case.

25. Fuckin lasers, how do they work?

26. PTSD from a price scanner?!? PTSD is caused by events that are “outside the range of usual human experience,” to quote the DSM, like abuse and fighting in a war. Unless the girl had previously been attacked by violent convenience store clerks wielding price scanners who told her she was grumpy and needed to smile, I call BS.

27. I worked as a clerk at a computer store for a decade. I watched parents drag their kids into the store and gawk for hours at things they weren’t going to buy. This naturally created grumpy kids. I like kids, even grumpy ones. Sometimes I tried to cheer them up. I can imagine playfully zapping one of those kids with a price scanner. I can’t imagine telling them to smile. That would have been too cheesy. My point is, I’ll bet the clerk had good intentions, and as a consequence dickwad parents have been harassing him with legal bullshit for six years.

28. I just googled a bunch of retail scanners exactly like you’d find at a 7-11 store. Not a one of them was over 1 mW laser power. This wouldn’t burn your skin if both you and the laser were clamped in place. Add a scanning function, and any injury, including eye injury, is not possible.

    Maybe if she were epileptic and the scanner set her off. It really doesn’t pass the giggle test. What a litigious society we tolerate.

29. fog and lasers, add some pink floyd and lets party

30. Yet another reason why science education is so important. Here’s where a little judicial activism could be handy. Turn this civil suit around such that when the parents lose, they can avoid paying court costs (and a contempt of court charge) by attending three semesters of science classes at their local community college with the caveat that those classes must me biology, chemistry and physics. They don’t have to get A’s, they just have to pass.

    Word of advice: do not demand that a teen or nearly-teen girl smile. It doesn’t cause PTSD (that’s absurd on it’s face), but it can trigger a reasonably pissy emotional response from said girl. You will have earned it. Keep your misplaced paternalism to your own damned self. That includes you, too, Chasuk. Unless you like getting told to “fuck off” from the same random females you demanded smiles from.

    1. Do scientific facts still hold up in a court of law?

    2. @#43 IronEdithKidd: “Keep your misplaced paternalism to your own damned self. That includes you, too, Chasuk.”

       You really need to read more carefully before you post.

31. Since the laser wasn’t attached to the head of a shark, there is no way that it could have caused any harm.

32. people hate lawyers until they need them. litigaton in this case seems to be taking place in lieu of ‘mack truck’ violence. so what do the boing boing boarders want? mute acceptance of all girls/women at being treated like inanimate objects? no, i know that’s not true because enough of you have spoken out against that. but the boing boing headlne perpetuates the myth that the girl is somehow at fault for being ‘grumpy.’ simply not smiling is not being ‘grumpy,’ and were somene to be actually ‘grumpy,’ it would be best to avoid provoking that one’s ire by acting like a fool/bully. therefore, constructive correction is warranted in this case. perhaps the clerk/store should consider themselves lucky the girl’s using such a civilized method of redress.

    1. “mute acceptance of all girls/women at being treated like inanimate objects?”

       What? How is talking to a kid treating them like an inanimate object? I would think ignoring them completely would be more like it.

       When I worked at Wendy’s I got accused of ruining a little girl’s entire day for not including a toy with her non-kid’s meal. Parents can be crazy.

       I can’t tell whether it’s the clerk or the store getting sued, but if it’s the clerk, props to the store for providing legal council to their employee instead of firing them and leaving them to the wolves.

33. Fog and lasers? sounds like a pink floyd concert.

34. So it took 6 years for the mother to decide the burns this girl had/has were caused by a harmless light? And we know all 18 year olds have Tourette’s, because there is no other explanation as to why an 18 year old would swear.

35. Evidently the clerk is amused (and/or paid) more by standing trial than by spending $20-70 to file a motion to dismiss, and/or sue the local court in federal court for FAIL (though of course that’s not out of the question). Cheap frivolous subpoenas is something insured…only, against, ideally.

36. Pa. judge tosses burned-by-price-scanner suit

    (AP) – 5 days ago

    ERIE, Pa. — An Erie County judge has thrown out a lawsuit filed by the guardian of a 12-year-old girl who claimed the girl was burned and traumatized when a convenience store clerk allegedly aimed a hand-held price scanner at her face. Judge Ernest DeSantis Jr. ruled in favor of the Country Fair store in Erie, after its attorney argued that the plaintiff failed to make a case on Wednesday.

    Dominica Juliano was 12 when she and her grandmother entered the store in June 2004. A clerk allegedly called the girl “grumpy” before flashing her in the face and telling her to smile.

    Juliano and her guardian claimed the girl was sensitive to light, burned and developed psychological problems as a result.

    The store’s attorney said that’s not possible because the scanner uses a harmless LED light.

    Information from: Erie Times-News, http://www.goerie.com

37. Ever since my ent gave me a tympanogram, my ears have been ringing like a bitch. Everyone I talk to tells me that’s impossible, but my ears weren’t ringing before and they’re ringing now. Part of me is convinced the tympanogram did it (the tone they blasted into my ears was high-pitched and annoying) and part of me wonders if it’s just “nerves”…
    except it’s been six months, and the ringing won’t stop.
    So I won’t criticize anybody for complaining about a scanner.

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