Comments on: The People's Manifesto: Mark Thomas and friends' suggestions for UK political reform http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Tue, 21 May 2013 15:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Anony Mouse http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789258 Anony Mouse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789258 I used to hate Mark Thomas as a lefty whiner until this book came out. I think the fact that it's funny, and yet many of the suggestions are fundamentally sensible is very interesting; on a meta-level both the sourcing of suggestions and the development of the humour is an illustration of democracy producing worthwhile results - illustrating that a decent proportion of electors are far better suited to government than the representatives that they get to choose between. It makes me wonder whether initial candidate selection should also be by and from the electorate (vis. the selection of fashion models in the book). It's certainly a reinforcement of my belief that a kind of anarcho-syndicalism or 'government by residents' association' would be beneficial. It also puts me in mind of something I learned once about the Monster Raving Loony Party. I read one of their early manifestos from the 60's or something, and found that the only policy point that hadn't in some form become law was the legalisation of all drugs. At the time the Labour government were talking about the relaxation of the law on cannabis, so it looked like a moral victory for Lord Such... I used to hate Mark Thomas as a lefty whiner until this book came out. I think the fact that it’s funny, and yet many of the suggestions are fundamentally sensible is very interesting; on a meta-level both the sourcing of suggestions and the development of the humour is an illustration of democracy producing worthwhile results – illustrating that a decent proportion of electors are far better suited to government than the representatives that they get to choose between. It makes me wonder whether initial candidate selection should also be by and from the electorate (vis. the selection of fashion models in the book). It’s certainly a reinforcement of my belief that a kind of anarcho-syndicalism or ‘government by residents’ association’ would be beneficial.

It also puts me in mind of something I learned once about the Monster Raving Loony Party. I read one of their early manifestos from the 60′s or something, and found that the only policy point that hadn’t in some form become law was the legalisation of all drugs. At the time the Labour government were talking about the relaxation of the law on cannabis, so it looked like a moral victory for Lord Such…

]]> By: Anony Mouse http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789259 Anony Mouse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789259 Well done you!!! Well done you!!!

]]> By: Anony Mouse http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789261 Anony Mouse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789261 Maybe, like student loans, they might only become eligible to pay them back once they earn above a threshold (once that might reasonably indicate corruption)? Set the basic rate of interest to match inflation (ie around base rate) and then you don't saddle the low earners with unmanageable debt. The real pisser with student loans is that once you start paying them back (once you earn £17k) the interest rate becomes compound rather than basic, but the amount you pay off on low salaries is very small - less than the interest you earn. So you're fine until you hit the earnings threshold, but once you do you have to increase your salary quickly or spiral into debt. For example, I graduated in 2004, with a moderately low loan amount of about £10,000. When I hit £17k in 2007, I had a debt of about £11,000, and I started paying off about £12 a month. My salary hit approximately £28,500 before my payments actually exceeded the compound interest on the loan, by which point I owed about £12.5k. Not such a problem for me - I've been really fucking lucky. But the average salary in the UK is about £22-23k, and as more people attend a university, a larger proportion of graduates are going to be earning around or below this salary for longer/forever. These graduates are completely fucked. How long do you have to be sat around the mean salarly before your loan is impossible to pay off regardlessof salary? Scary thought - especially as university fees have been getting steadily de-regulated over time since I was a student. Maybe, like student loans, they might only become eligible to pay them back once they earn above a threshold (once that might reasonably indicate corruption)? Set the basic rate of interest to match inflation (ie around base rate) and then you don’t saddle the low earners with unmanageable debt.

The real pisser with student loans is that once you start paying them back (once you earn £17k) the interest rate becomes compound rather than basic, but the amount you pay off on low salaries is very small – less than the interest you earn. So you’re fine until you hit the earnings threshold, but once you do you have to increase your salary quickly or spiral into debt.

For example, I graduated in 2004, with a moderately low loan amount of about £10,000. When I hit £17k in 2007, I had a debt of about £11,000, and I started paying off about £12 a month. My salary hit approximately £28,500 before my payments actually exceeded the compound interest on the loan, by which point I owed about £12.5k. Not such a problem for me – I’ve been really fucking lucky. But the average salary in the UK is about £22-23k, and as more people attend a university, a larger proportion of graduates are going to be earning around or below this salary for longer/forever. These graduates are completely fucked. How long do you have to be sat around the mean salarly before your loan is impossible to pay off regardlessof salary? Scary thought – especially as university fees have been getting steadily de-regulated over time since I was a student.

]]> By: Anony Mouse http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789262 Anony Mouse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789262 Easy answer; CEOs are meant to be legally obliged deliver shareholder value, but there are many studies indicating that they do not; certainly that they do not deliver commensurately with their pay. Take Marks and Spencer as an example. Though AGMs appear to deliver democracy, it's actually very difficult for shareholders to resist board decisions or assert their will. Easy answer; CEOs are meant to be legally obliged deliver shareholder value, but there are many studies indicating that they do not; certainly that they do not deliver commensurately with their pay. Take Marks and Spencer as an example. Though AGMs appear to deliver democracy, it’s actually very difficult for shareholders to resist board decisions or assert their will.

]]> By: Anony Mouse http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789263 Anony Mouse Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789263 Dennis Skinner is a great man and a great politician for the people. He and Tony Benn (my old MP) are amongst the shining beacons of decency that the rest of the political world attempt to hide under a dung-heap. That said, I understand that he used to claim quite a few phone calls to his mistresses on expenses. Not that that is in the same league as duck-pond-houses and forest maintainance and so forth - and I understand that overall his claims have been tiny. One can forgive a politician foibles and weaknesses, so long as they do not define their character and behaviour. As to you being one of his constituents - unlucky! Are you from Bozer? Any extra thumbs? Any teeth left? I used to live in the old school building in Stanfree, just down the bottom of the hill - after you turn right along the road to Clowne, past the Coalite works. Happy days. Dennis Skinner is a great man and a great politician for the people. He and Tony Benn (my old MP) are amongst the shining beacons of decency that the rest of the political world attempt to hide under a dung-heap.

That said, I understand that he used to claim quite a few phone calls to his mistresses on expenses. Not that that is in the same league as duck-pond-houses and forest maintainance and so forth – and I understand that overall his claims have been tiny. One can forgive a politician foibles and weaknesses, so long as they do not define their character and behaviour.

As to you being one of his constituents – unlucky! Are you from Bozer? Any extra thumbs? Any teeth left? I used to live in the old school building in Stanfree, just down the bottom of the hill – after you turn right along the road to Clowne, past the Coalite works. Happy days.

]]> By: LaughingLemon http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789265 LaughingLemon Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789265 I bought about six copies and gave them to friends & family. The best suggestion was having manefesto promises legally binding, but the funniest didn't make it into the manefesto itself: replaceing all the laws with "Being out of order" and "Being BANG out of order!" (obviously some geezer from South London) I bought about six copies and gave them to friends & family.
The best suggestion was having manefesto promises legally binding, but the funniest didn’t make it into the manefesto itself: replaceing all the laws with “Being out of order” and “Being BANG out of order!” (obviously some geezer from South London)

]]> By: Cynical http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789266 Cynical Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789266 So why not tax all earnings above £1 million at 80 or 90%? That way, the company is still free to employ those "essential" executives, they just need to decide if they are really worth the extra money it would require to give them an effective salary of £20m. In the cases outlined above, it might well be; in the case of most bloated and disparate executive remuneration packages, I strongly suspect it wouldn't be. The distortion that occurs in the market as a result of some people being on minimum wage while others can "earn" sums in the tens of millions is one of the leading causes of social inequality in our society today. Try buying a house in London on £5.93 an hour; it's impossible because there is a finite supply of buildings, and a growing number of people taking home one hundred or a thousand times more than the 11k a year that minimum wage represents. What kind of society allows the top 1% of wage earners to destroy any quality of life for the bottom 20%? So why not tax all earnings above £1 million at 80 or 90%? That way, the company is still free to employ those “essential” executives, they just need to decide if they are really worth the extra money it would require to give them an effective salary of £20m. In the cases outlined above, it might well be; in the case of most bloated and disparate executive remuneration packages, I strongly suspect it wouldn’t be.

The distortion that occurs in the market as a result of some people being on minimum wage while others can “earn” sums in the tens of millions is one of the leading causes of social inequality in our society today. Try buying a house in London on £5.93 an hour; it’s impossible because there is a finite supply of buildings, and a growing number of people taking home one hundred or a thousand times more than the 11k a year that minimum wage represents. What kind of society allows the top 1% of wage earners to destroy any quality of life for the bottom 20%?

]]> By: 3lbFlax http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789017 3lbFlax Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789017 Anyone intending to watch scorzonera's linked video (recommended!), take note that it expires at a minute to midnight tonight (Sat 15th May). So get in ASAP. Anyone intending to watch scorzonera’s linked video (recommended!), take note that it expires at a minute to midnight tonight (Sat 15th May). So get in ASAP.

]]> By: scorzonera http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789020 scorzonera Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789020 Oh shit. Thanks 3lbFlax XX Oh shit. Thanks 3lbFlax
XX

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789036 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789036 I fully expected the link to take me to a CC version of the text. Unless he's donating the proceeds to charity it seems a bit much for a guy making 100K pounds a year to make even more off an audience generated product. I fully expected the link to take me to a CC version of the text. Unless he’s donating the proceeds to charity it seems a bit much for a guy making 100K pounds a year to make even more off an audience generated product.

]]> By: zax http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-790580 zax Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-790580 I agree Anony Mouse. I graduated 8 years ago and only now am I earning £20k a year (and have been for 3 years). I pay £56 a month into my student debt and that doesn't even cover the interest over a year. The amount I owe has just been going up steadily since I graduated. Seems a bit pointless to me that it's even being paid. At this rate I'm never going to be rid of it!! I agree Anony Mouse. I graduated 8 years ago and only now am I earning £20k a year (and have been for 3 years). I pay £56 a month into my student debt and that doesn’t even cover the interest over a year. The amount I owe has just been going up steadily since I graduated. Seems a bit pointless to me that it’s even being paid. At this rate I’m never going to be rid of it!!

]]> By: Felix Mitchell http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789302 Felix Mitchell Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789302 This is the ideal. Unfortunately as you increase taxation you also increase the marginal benefit of avoiding taxation. So it becomes cost effective to hire expensive accountants to move money around to avoid paying tax. i.e. say there's an accountant who will cut your tax payments in half and costs £100,000. As soon as you start paying above £200,000 in taxes it makes sense to hire him. This is the ideal. Unfortunately as you increase taxation you also increase the marginal benefit of avoiding taxation. So it becomes cost effective to hire expensive accountants to move money around to avoid paying tax.

i.e. say there’s an accountant who will cut your tax payments in half and costs £100,000. As soon as you start paying above £200,000 in taxes it makes sense to hire him.

]]> By: loonquawl http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789563 loonquawl Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789563 "The team must think it's getting at least that much value out of him, so capping his salary at $1 million would simply hand the team $19 million." --- So? 'the team' then has 19M$ more. It spends that money on other people (190 more people get 100k$. fine by me). It uses the money to do some youth sports (lookout for new players, but also great social works). Or it simply reduces income by lowering costs to the ones around it. “The team must think it’s getting at least that much value out of him, so capping his salary at $1 million would simply hand the team $19 million.” —
So? ‘the team’ then has 19M$ more. It spends that money on other people (190 more people get 100k$. fine by me). It uses the money to do some youth sports (lookout for new players, but also great social works). Or it simply reduces income by lowering costs to the ones around it.

]]> By: scorzonera http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788798 scorzonera Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788798 My personal favourites from the BBC Radio 4 series of the tour were - "Able bodied people who park in disabled spaces should have their legs broken" and "When the Royal Family aren't in residence, Windsor Castle should be opened to homeless people." My personal favourites from the BBC Radio 4 series of the tour were – “Able bodied people who park in disabled spaces should have their legs broken” and “When the Royal Family aren’t in residence, Windsor Castle should be opened to homeless people.”

]]> By: Chentzilla http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788801 Chentzilla Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788801 Wearing pavement as a moustache? Boy, that's hard. Wearing pavement as a moustache? Boy, that’s hard.

]]> By: bmcraec http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788809 bmcraec Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788809 I just tweeted the "Maximum Salary" one, slightly edited, and attributed in a follow-up tweet! Absolutely brilliant! I just tweeted the “Maximum Salary” one, slightly edited, and attributed in a follow-up tweet! Absolutely brilliant!

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789067 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789067 Anon at #21- your source for the claim that MT makes 100K per year? grep Anon at #21- your source for the claim that MT makes 100K per year?

grep

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789584 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789584 The candidate put forward on theis manifesto at the last election was in my ward. He didn't campaign, didn't appears anywhere locally as it happens and as a result lost his deposit by only getting 343 votes out of 55,00 or so cast. So no matter how interesting your policy, unless you actually let people know about it, it will get nowhere. The candidate put forward on theis manifesto at the last election was in my ward. He didn’t campaign, didn’t appears anywhere locally as it happens and as a result lost his deposit by only getting 343 votes out of 55,00 or so cast. So no matter how interesting your policy, unless you actually let people know about it, it will get nowhere.

]]> By: Cynical http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789329 Cynical Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789329 That's very true, and it's also the reason that large UK-based corporations pay less in taxes in real terms than those on minimum wage. It's a sad fact that the UK is behind most of the tax havens used for this purpose, but just because this is the sad reality doesn't mean we have to like or encourage the idea. That’s very true, and it’s also the reason that large UK-based corporations pay less in taxes in real terms than those on minimum wage. It’s a sad fact that the UK is behind most of the tax havens used for this purpose, but just because this is the sad reality doesn’t mean we have to like or encourage the idea.

]]> By: george57l http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-790098 george57l Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-790098 Felix Thank you for clarifying your position (and softening it somewhat. 'Cos that's not what you said first time round. (I made the key word bold.) <i>"So taking <b>any</b> job in an industry connected to their previous government position is corrupt.</i> But it is ok after a couple of years, is that it? And who said they were all taking such positions so as <i>"to subvert the normal democratic process"</i>? Apparently you assumed that before. Oh, and IANAL but I have been advised that non-compete agreements are in many (most) cases non-enforceable. Restraint of trade. Felix
Thank you for clarifying your position (and softening it somewhat. ‘Cos that’s not what you said first time round. (I made the key word bold.)

“So taking any job in an industry connected to their previous government position is corrupt.

But it is ok after a couple of years, is that it? And who said they were all taking such positions so as “to subvert the normal democratic process”? Apparently you assumed that before.

Oh, and IANAL but I have been advised that non-compete agreements are in many (most) cases non-enforceable. Restraint of trade.

]]> By: expletive undeleted http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788822 expletive undeleted Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788822 Mark Thomas is a national treasure. What a shame he couldn't join our glorious new coalition government Mark Thomas is a national treasure. What a shame he couldn’t join our glorious new coalition government

]]> By: Scary_UK http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789334 Scary_UK Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789334 The most interesting one I heard in the Radio 4 series was a law that the highest salary in a company should be something like 10 times the lowest one. This would have the strange consequence that in industrial disputes the union/employees would demand a pay cut from their boss The most interesting one I heard in the Radio 4 series was a law that the highest salary in a company should be something like 10 times the lowest one.

This would have the strange consequence that in industrial disputes the union/employees would demand a pay cut from their boss

]]> By: nanite2000 http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788827 nanite2000 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788827 Does anyone know the typeface used on the book cover? It's the same as the "Keep Calm And Carry On" one isn't it? Does anyone know the typeface used on the book cover? It’s the same as the “Keep Calm And Carry On” one isn’t it?

]]> By: fizzy_suppository http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789339 fizzy_suppository Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789339 and (more seriously): 1) to be ellectible, one should pass a test: history, geography, economy, finance, politics etc...(after all, if driving requires a permit, so should the exercise of politics which is far more dangerous than driving). 2) any politician who wishes to pass a law, should first propose to abolish 2 laws. (until a reasonable balance is reached by general concensus). and (more seriously):
1) to be ellectible, one should pass a test: history, geography, economy, finance, politics etc…(after all, if driving requires a permit, so should the exercise of politics which is far more dangerous than driving).
2) any politician who wishes to pass a law, should first propose to abolish 2 laws. (until a reasonable balance is reached by general concensus).

]]> By: kupo http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788830 kupo Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788830 These are great. And, as funny as "MPs should not paid wages but loans" is, it's not a sensible idea. It's tarring all MPs with one brush. Many MPs serve their time "properly", representing after their constituents and attending parliament frequently. I think it would be unfair to make people (they're people, remember!) like that have to pay money back. These are great. And, as funny as “MPs should not paid wages but loans” is, it’s not a sensible idea. It’s tarring all MPs with one brush. Many MPs serve their time “properly”, representing after their constituents and attending parliament frequently. I think it would be unfair to make people (they’re people, remember!) like that have to pay money back.

]]> By: lewis stoole http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788845 lewis stoole Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788845 might i add: 1) groups of 3 or more and armlocked couples walking on sidewalks--when oncoming walkers approach, do not be douchebags and continue consuming the entire width of the sidewalk. there are other douchebags that left their dog shit in the grass. do not make others walk around you and step into the grass. 2) bikes on sidewalks--that is fine, but do not ride fast through people, this goes for skaters too--don't be dicks might i add:
1) groups of 3 or more and armlocked couples walking on sidewalks–when oncoming walkers approach, do not be douchebags and continue consuming the entire width of the sidewalk. there are other douchebags that left their dog shit in the grass. do not make others walk around you and step into the grass.
2) bikes on sidewalks–that is fine, but do not ride fast through people, this goes for skaters too–don’t be dicks

]]> By: Nelson.C http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788846 Nelson.C Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788846 Probably <a href="http://spittingcat.blogspot.com/2006/08/mexico-68-london-12.html">Johnston</a>; it's the font used for the London Underground corporate ID. If you can't afford that, then Gill Sans is fairly close. Probably Johnston; it’s the font used for the London Underground corporate ID. If you can’t afford that, then Gill Sans is fairly close.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-790897 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-790897 My guess is that it is Gills Sans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Sans My guess is that it is Gills Sans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_Sans

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-789621 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-789621 Because unlike basketball there are no rules to being a CEO. A basketball player is measured empirically on performance. A CEO can not be measured on performance because of the lack of rules. They could easily increase turnover by signing up a load of contracts that would lose hundreds of millions in 10 years time. They could increase profit by sacking 1/3 of the workforce (the reaction to which would generally be an increase in productivity followed by problems several years later). He could use acounting mechanisms (aka Enron) to hide loss making businesses. He could create structured investment vehicles that cause countries to come to the edge of bankruptcy. All of his measure happen years after he/she has left where as a basketball player gets measured every hour(?) they play to a set of rules everyone understand and everyone can see exactly how they are performing. Because unlike basketball there are no rules to being a CEO. A basketball player is measured empirically on performance. A CEO can not be measured on performance because of the lack of rules. They could easily increase turnover by signing up a load of contracts that would lose hundreds of millions in 10 years time. They could increase profit by sacking 1/3 of the workforce (the reaction to which would generally be an increase in productivity followed by problems several years later). He could use acounting mechanisms (aka Enron) to hide loss making businesses. He could create structured investment vehicles that cause countries to come to the edge of bankruptcy. All of his measure happen years after he/she has left where as a basketball player gets measured every hour(?) they play to a set of rules everyone understand and everyone can see exactly how they are performing.

]]> By: Felix Mitchell http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/the-peoples-manifest.html#comment-788874 Felix Mitchell Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-788874 I realise it's all a joke but the loans for MPs is retarded. You're forcing them to be corrupt after they leave office. The reason they get highly paid jobs is because of their knowledge of the system they just came from, and their contacts within it. So taking any job in an industry connected to their previous government position is corrupt. This is being looked at in parliament soon, I think, and hopefully they'll find a good solution. Currently you're not allowed to lobby within 2 years. I think that should be extended to consulting as well and extended to 5 years. To be frank I don't know why MPs can't earn a living doing an honest job after they leave office which doesn't involve exploiting the position they were given by UK citizens. I realise it’s all a joke but the loans for MPs is retarded. You’re forcing them to be corrupt after they leave office.

The reason they get highly paid jobs is because of their knowledge of the system they just came from, and their contacts within it. So taking any job in an industry connected to their previous government position is corrupt.

This is being looked at in parliament soon, I think, and hopefully they’ll find a good solution. Currently you’re not allowed to lobby within 2 years. I think that should be extended to consulting as well and extended to 5 years. To be frank I don’t know why MPs can’t earn a living doing an honest job after they leave office which doesn’t involve exploiting the position they were given by UK citizens.

]]>