I found the nude male pic especially riveting.

As Mr. Dylan said:

He’s taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
‘Bout the shape that he’s in
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.

Also, why is it that people think it’s okay to make fun of Appalachians but not other minorities? Just curious.

Now, as I pointed out in my earlier post, a lot of these good folks are misguided in embracing the Confederate flag as a symbol of their heritage, since many of their ancestors actually fought for the Union and hated the Confederacy. The celebration of the Rebel flag as a symbol of Southern pride was promoted by pro-Confederacy, pro-”states rights”, pro-segregation propagandists. It’s a distortion of history of Orwellian proportions. I find it sad that so many Southerners wave the Confederate flag without really understanding the history behind it. But, for most of them, it simply means: “I’m proud of who I am and where I come from — I’m not ashamed of the South, or of being a Southerner.”

Do they wave the flag defiantly? Sure they do. Southerners are a proud people; and they’re sick and tired of folks outside the South looking down their noses at them, criticizing them, and making fun of them. The less respect they get from “Yankees”, the more defiant they become. The more people condemn the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate, the more proudly Southerners wave it as a symbol of pride.

Now, of course, for many, the Confederate flag is a symbol of hate. Many hate groups wave the flag as a celebration of their hatred for anyone who is not “one of their kind”. And many people (especially African Americans) can’t help but see the flag as a celebration of slavery and segregation, and therefore as a symbol of racism. But that’s not how most Southern whites see it. For them, the flag is a symbol of their home and their heritage. They honestly believe that they are the victims of anti-Southern bigotry; and that haters from outside the South have distorted the true meaning of the Confederate flag in an attempt to vilify everyone who proudly waves it. Of course, they’re misguided. It’s really the good folks who wave the Confederate flag who have a distorted understanding of its true meaning. But these folks ought to be pitied, not condemned. They are the unwitting victims of a decades-old con, perpetrated by regressive forces who have tried to turn this racist and treasonous symbol into a symbol of regional pride.

Wow, I got disemvowled for that? I believe that’s the first time it has happened to me.

In any case I think it is a bit silly to lump all Mormons together. The fact that you feel (or at least Krakauer felt) you need to use the “nonfundamentalist” specifier is revealing. The truth is, could probably make the same statement about fundamentalist Mormons as well. Any time you have a group of several million people there are going to be all sorts of outliers that can be sensationalized, yet that very fact reveals that there is a lot of diversity within any large group and trying to characterize all of them with a broad brush is often fruitless. Mormons have done some horrible things and some wonderful things, just like any other large group of people.

As for the disemvoweling (which I honestly assume you had nothing to do with) I was just pointing out that there are groups other than rednecks who regularly get stereotyped and treated dismissively here at BoingBoing. Hardly a controversial statement, wouldn’t you say?

A home and heritage that explicitly excludes minorities.

I’m not too worried about rednecks of any stripe. It’s poverty culture, and it’s not drastically different from what you’ll find in Detroit or Brownsville. I grew up with some of the tamer expressions of it (well, tamer than the Whites, anyway).

But the concept of the Confederacy as “heritage” boggles my mind. I don’t consider the Union as part of my heritage. I’m well aware (thanks especially to Southern-state funded textbooks being ubiquitous in the school system) that the Union was no pure example of goodness. I am not particularly concerned with 160-year-old grudges. The sadness, anger, and “rebellion” are generated out of misdirected anxiety. It’s not carpetbaggers who poison your river water. It’s not Yankees who sell you drugs. The man isn’t keeping you down. You’re doing it to yourself. The flag isn’t going to keep away the feeling that you’re failing your children when you lie awake at night.

“American Express: Take Charge”

This is not just West Virginia. I’ve found White clans in every state. All of them. Every city.

Wild? Maybe. Wonderful? I don’t think so.

The romanticism of that clan is easy to embrace when seen through the filter of the Internet or a movie screen. Imagine being a child in the environment described. Substance abuse, guns, rampant ignorance, poverty, racism.

Must be hell.

“A personal detour here: I was conceived in West Virginia, not far from the Whites’ stomping grounds. To their credit, my parents got out as fast as possible. I thank them for it.” Really? Wow. How very progressive of you.

Are there problems, certainly, but at least the problems exist everywhere in the US, it’s just the groups, that surround the problem, that changes. At least this is one of the few states, that knows how to keep and maintain a balanced budget.

All niceties aside, the Confederate flag is purely a symbol for “I don’t like you” or “fuck you.” It’s a generic symbol for bitterness and contention. An empty vessel that can be filled with whatever criteria the bearer finds most loathsome at any random moment. Just another brand of attitude like Nike or Pepsi. Something for people to wear like an Old Navy hoodie or paste to their truck. The historical context is completely lost. Pride is the last word that should be attached to that rag.

The subject-matter puts me in mind of a coastal town in Maine, not far from where my family spends the summer. The town has a thriving lobster fishing industry, a beautiful harbor — and one or two marauding, drug-dealing families who are little whirligigs of criminal activity. Coastal Maine is like that — three cultures superimposed on one another: the affluent retirees “from away,” the solid, historically working-class families in fishing or logging, and the marginal, scrappy families inhabiting the frayed edges of the social fabric — particularly the part of the fabric where legitimate enterprises intersect with the drug trade. (I keep having visions of an old tourist-travel film for the town: “Welcome to our lovely harbor town!” — cut to shot of lobster-boat exploding.)

Also, I’m not from WV and don’t have family there, but I know that there’s more to the state than hillbillies and coal mining.

I’m genuinely puzzled by why so many West Virginians see the confederacy as a positive thing when their state was a bastion of the Union.

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“Appalachians” are considered a minority?

My gal has a high tolerance for just about anything other than animals getting hurt or mistreated.

Any of that? Thanks for the post!

He’s the guy mothers beg their daughters to stay away from. He’s the guy those daughters flock to, anyway.

Somebody had to take the job when I got hitched!

I’ve enjoyed nearly every minute I’ve spent in West Virginia; I lived there for a while. I admit that it is a bad place for rude, inconsiderate cityfolk to visit; but in my experience polite and mannerly people are treated extremely well by the natives. Those parts of the state that have not been destroyed (to feed the rest of America’s insatiable appetite for dirty energy) are very beautiful.