Comments on: Canada's own PATRIOT Act http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html Brain candy for Happy Mutants Thu, 20 Jun 2013 07:52:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: gink1 http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798208 gink1 Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798208 Though the US fancies itself ahead of Canada in many ways I believe the opposite is actually true. It's a shame Canada has the equivalent of the US Patriot act but it seems to lack many of the heinous provisions of the US Patriot act, especially when it comes to gathering intel from citizens. Canada doesn't just have more reasonable laws and far far more affordable reasonable health care but their "Patriot" act is better too! Though the US fancies itself ahead of Canada in many ways I believe the opposite is actually true.

It’s a shame Canada has the equivalent of the US Patriot act but it seems to lack many of the heinous provisions of the US Patriot act, especially when it comes to gathering intel from citizens.

Canada doesn’t just have more reasonable laws and far far more affordable reasonable health care but their “Patriot” act is better too!

]]> By: Crosius http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798219 Crosius Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798219 It's only "better" in the sense that it's "less bad." I guess Harper's strategy of proroguing parliament whenever it looks like he might not get his way has worked out for him - he's got his invasive search law and his dumb copyright law. One more prorogue and he'll have Intelligent Design in the schools. It’s only “better” in the sense that it’s “less bad.”

I guess Harper’s strategy of proroguing parliament whenever it looks like he might not get his way has worked out for him – he’s got his invasive search law and his dumb copyright law. One more prorogue and he’ll have Intelligent Design in the schools.

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798221 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798221 Although our anthem uses the word "patriot", as in "true patriot love", the term itself has acquired an "American" patina in its connotations (thanks US Media corps), conjuring images of Revolutionary American-British Colonialists. Many of my neighbours' forebears were, in fact, refugees from American revolutionary violence and rebellion: they were the right-wing conservatives 18th C America, driven from their homes by violent overthrowers (self-styled "patriots") of the established order. My point: We ought to call ours the "Loyalty Act" - for that is what ALL of these "Acts" are about: loyalty: as in, "loyalty to your liege Lord". The same "loyalty" which was enforced and maintained by threats of tortures, of prisons, and of punishments, for those daring to question - I mean, for those disloyal - to their Rulers. Patriot Act? Really? Not the "Loyalty To Royalty" Act? Although our anthem uses the word “patriot”, as in “true patriot love”, the term itself has acquired an “American” patina in its connotations (thanks US Media corps), conjuring images of Revolutionary American-British Colonialists.
Many of my neighbours’ forebears were, in fact, refugees from American revolutionary violence and rebellion: they were the right-wing conservatives 18th C America, driven from their homes by violent overthrowers (self-styled “patriots”) of the established order.
My point: We ought to call ours the “Loyalty Act” – for that is what ALL of these “Acts” are about: loyalty: as in, “loyalty to your liege Lord”.
The same “loyalty” which was enforced and maintained by threats of tortures, of prisons, and of punishments, for those daring to question – I mean, for those disloyal – to their Rulers.
Patriot Act? Really? Not the “Loyalty To Royalty” Act?

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798223 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798223 His real aim is to re-create the US prison-security industrial complex by using harsh, wasteful and counter-productive minimum sentences for marijuana users and other petty "criminals". Also: this so-called "crackdown" helps their organized-crime allies to maintain their hold on illegal drug distribution, quality and profits. To steer people away from possibly helpful, less toxic, psychedelics, and into the addictive and harmful substances - alcohol and speed (oh call it "ecstasy"- the kids will love it!). Sociopathic and cruel: but useful - to maintain political control, by well-rehearsed and researched political theatre: and it does keep the taxpayer-funded police and prison guards on your side, as you spread taxpayers' funds to your big-business buddies, while cutting back on welfare, health-care, education, and income support for unemployed workers. His real aim is to re-create the US prison-security industrial complex by using harsh, wasteful and counter-productive minimum sentences for marijuana users and other petty “criminals”.
Also: this so-called “crackdown” helps their organized-crime allies to maintain their hold on illegal drug distribution, quality and profits.
To steer people away from possibly helpful, less toxic, psychedelics, and into the addictive and harmful substances – alcohol and speed (oh call it “ecstasy”- the kids will love it!).
Sociopathic and cruel: but useful – to maintain political control, by well-rehearsed and researched political theatre: and it does keep the taxpayer-funded police and prison guards on your side, as you spread taxpayers’ funds to your big-business buddies, while cutting back on welfare, health-care, education, and income support for unemployed workers.

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-1166863 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1166863 In fact, here's a link to an antique song about it, called "Social Living", by Winston "Burning Spear" Rodney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3wyn20dI0 In fact, here’s a link to an antique song about it, called “Social Living”, by Winston “Burning Spear” Rodney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3wyn20dI0

]]> By: twiggy_trippit http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798249 twiggy_trippit Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798249 Hi Cory, You'll probably do it, but it'd be nice to have a follow-up on this as reactions to C-29 come out from various organizations. Geist is a great watchdog, but he's not very good at vulgarizing and I find the implications of the bill a bit hard to understand. For example, what are the implications of business not being required to verify the validity of lawful authority requesting information? And what are the specific rules on disclosing that info has been released to law enforcement? Does that disclosure become mandatory at some point (even after a delay) like for wiretapping with a court order, or not? Hi Cory,

You’ll probably do it, but it’d be nice to have a follow-up on this as reactions to C-29 come out from various organizations. Geist is a great watchdog, but he’s not very good at vulgarizing and I find the implications of the bill a bit hard to understand.

For example, what are the implications of business not being required to verify the validity of lawful authority requesting information? And what are the specific rules on disclosing that info has been released to law enforcement? Does that disclosure become mandatory at some point (even after a delay) like for wiretapping with a court order, or not?

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798262 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798262 Deprivacize (deprive of privacy) the general population to enhance the "security" of their prison-guard buddies, natch. Deprivacize (deprive of privacy) the general population to enhance the “security” of their prison-guard buddies, natch.

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798265 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798265 If they were not increasing the power of the State, or decreasing the rights of the citizenry, they would not need to pass a law. Which apparently seeks to deprive people of their security: in that one's rights to privacy are reduced or can be outright denied, and without you getting any notice thereof - and thus, one reasonably may consider oneself to be less secure in anonymously voicing one's political opinions - for you may be secretly identified, and secretly targeted, by those who have the unlimited resources of the State behind them. And that's good for the powerful, who may seek to avoid debate on the merits of policies: and to help the established to disrupt political opposition - by "monitoring" , that is, by strangling it in the cradle by tactics and surveillance undertaken in secret. Papers, please. Are these measures, these reductions in people's rights to privacy, reasonably justifiable as being truly necessary in a free and democratic society? If they were not increasing the power of the State, or decreasing the rights of the citizenry, they would not need to pass a law.
Which apparently seeks to deprive people of their security: in that one’s rights to privacy are reduced or can be outright denied, and without you getting any notice thereof – and thus, one reasonably may consider oneself to be less secure in anonymously voicing one’s political opinions – for you may be secretly identified, and secretly targeted, by those who have the unlimited resources of the State behind them.
And that’s good for the powerful, who may seek to avoid debate on the merits of policies: and to help the established to disrupt political opposition – by “monitoring” , that is, by strangling it in the cradle by tactics and surveillance undertaken in secret.
Papers, please.
Are these measures, these reductions in people’s rights to privacy, reasonably justifiable as being truly necessary in a free and democratic society?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798060 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798060 Forgive me for my naïveté, but I'm not sure I understand how this is as bad as the PATRIOT act... I see provisions for auditing the breeches of private data by companies, and I see Michael Geist complaining about the merits of the law, saying it isn't as tough as the PATRIOT act and its ilk... But I don't see how it's going to allow warrantless wiretaps or tighten border security to unheard-of levels where we fingerprint everyone and anally probe anyone entering and exiting the country. I get it, that this has SOME of the previsions in the PATRIOT act, but calling this the "Canadian PATRIOT Act" is a bit disingenuous. Forgive me for my naïveté, but I’m not sure I understand how this is as bad as the PATRIOT act…

I see provisions for auditing the breeches of private data by companies, and I see Michael Geist complaining about the merits of the law, saying it isn’t as tough as the PATRIOT act and its ilk… But I don’t see how it’s going to allow warrantless wiretaps or tighten border security to unheard-of levels where we fingerprint everyone and anally probe anyone entering and exiting the country.

I get it, that this has SOME of the previsions in the PATRIOT act, but calling this the “Canadian PATRIOT Act” is a bit disingenuous.

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798624 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798624 Google search results: "c-29" site:liberal.ca 0 results "c-29" site:blocquebecois.org 0 results "c-29" site:ndp.ca 1 result on an MPs subdomain. Oh wait: it's a different C-29 from 5 years ago. Opposition? What opposition? Google search results:

“c-29″ site:liberal.ca
0 results

“c-29″ site:blocquebecois.org
0 results

“c-29″ site:ndp.ca
1 result on an MPs subdomain. Oh wait: it’s a different C-29 from 5 years ago.

Opposition? What opposition?

]]> By: 2k http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-798375 2k Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-798375 Of the intruiging points put forth I was struck by your use of the phrase: "organized-crime allies" in linking the (military?/security) industrial complex with organised crime. Is this your contention? Discuss in the context of failure to notify-of-breach breaches. and. It seems t'me that not notifying potential criminals, within a specific timeline, of judicially ordered, personal information disclosure, is... sane? ...and then I read the provisions for business... So how are they all linked up with organised crime then? Of the intruiging points put forth I was struck by your use of the phrase: “organized-crime allies” in linking the (military?/security) industrial complex with organised crime.
Is this your contention? Discuss in the context of failure to notify-of-breach breaches.
and.
It seems t’me that not notifying potential criminals, within a specific timeline, of judicially ordered, personal information disclosure, is… sane?

…and then I read the provisions for business…
So how are they all linked up with organised crime then?

]]> By: Anonymous http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-799161 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-799161 I think most Canadians in general are unaware of this bill and/or what they can do to oppose it. As someone new to this, what can the average citizen do to oppose this bill? Any guidance or links to appropriate material that would make the process as simple and smooth as possible would be greatly appreciated. I think most Canadians in general are unaware of this bill and/or what they can do to oppose it.

As someone new to this, what can the average citizen do to oppose this bill?

Any guidance or links to appropriate material that would make the process as simple and smooth as possible would be greatly appreciated.

]]> By: Old Guy http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-1166528 Old Guy Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1166528 I have just read the comments by Ugly Canuck posted May 27th, 2010. It seems that he believes we live in a democratic society. WE DON'T. The system we live in is referred to, by political scientist Noam Chomsky, as a polyarchy. A polyarchy is defined as: "a system in which a small group actually rules and mass participation is confined to choosing leaders in elections managed by competing elites." This description seems to closely describe the system the U.S. operates under and perhaps to a slightly lesser degree here in Canada. Individually, the best thing anyone can do is attempt to disseminate information by writing letters to the editor of the local newspaper or other major publication, or attempting to reach a wider audience. Discussions with other like-minded people with a view to making collective views known is another possibility. In doing so we must avoid advocating or promoting violence of any sort to get any point across as this will tend to reduce the credibility of one's position. Knowing what we're dealing with is key to forming any kind of strategy for dealing with any particular situation. Gleaning information from reputable sources, whether it be from the internet, library or major periodicals is a good start. If anyone chooses civil disobedience as an option, again, non-violence is essential and you must be prepared for any consequences of your actions, including incarceration. I have just read the comments by Ugly Canuck posted May 27th, 2010. It seems that he believes we live in a democratic society. WE DON’T. The system we live in is referred to, by political scientist Noam Chomsky, as a polyarchy. A polyarchy is defined as: “a system in which a small group actually rules and mass participation is confined to choosing leaders in elections managed by competing elites.” This description seems to closely describe the system the U.S. operates under and perhaps to a slightly lesser degree here in Canada.
Individually, the best thing anyone can do is attempt to disseminate information by writing letters to the editor of the local newspaper or other major publication, or attempting to reach a wider audience. Discussions with other like-minded people with a view to making collective views known is another possibility. In doing so we must avoid advocating or promoting violence of any sort to get any point across as this will tend to reduce the credibility of one’s position.
Knowing what we’re dealing with is key to forming any kind of strategy for dealing with any particular situation. Gleaning information from reputable sources, whether it be from the internet, library or major periodicals is a good start.
If anyone chooses civil disobedience as an option, again, non-violence is essential and you must be prepared for any consequences of your actions, including incarceration.

]]> By: Ugly Canuck http://boingboing.net/2010/05/26/canadas-own-patriot.html#comment-1166586 Ugly Canuck Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-1166586 Well whatever term we use ( and descriptive terms are not exclusive) to describe the system or society we live in, and which we inevitably must help to build and participate in every day, whether you wish to or not, I think we are agreed that vigourous goal-oriented participation in society at every level - recreational, aesthetic, humanitarian, commercial, political - is the one essential key both to living a good life and to achieving a better life in the future, both for oneself and for society. Well whatever term we use ( and descriptive terms are not exclusive) to describe the system or society we live in, and which we inevitably must help to build and participate in every day, whether you wish to or not, I think we are agreed that vigourous goal-oriented participation in society at every level – recreational, aesthetic, humanitarian, commercial, political – is the one essential key both to living a good life and to achieving a better life in the future, both for oneself and for society.

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